The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Red Arremer]

We can destroy entire cities with nuclear warheads. Should we. If I were to just ignore this, and tomorrow Im sterill due to nuclear fallout, do you think I can ignore it.

You know, first I thought you had something like intelligence and were able to understand. During the course of your postings in this thread I've become to hate you. ^_^

If you have trouble understanding and accepting the data and aspects of COMPETETIVE (as in: we go to tournaments and win money with our playing) gameplay, then just DON'T COME HERE.

The tier list is an information for competetive players. Nothing else.

And we make it, because we want to have this information and we can.

There's a difference in between creating an information and genocide, don't you think?

 

[Atlas242]

yes mission accomplished
enemies + 1
I judge how well my life is going by how many enemies I've made.

Congradulations, you've prevented some kid from slitting their wrists today.

As for getting out to play tournements, I simply have no time. I'd like to, but I can't. When you got school a job and a girlfriend, its hard to find time for smash tourneys

 

[Red Arremer]

As for getting out to play tournements, I simply have no time. I'd like to, but I can't. When you got school a job and a girlfriend, its hard to find time for smash tourneys

Got all of these ('cept for a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. ^_^) and yet have time to go to tourneys.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Got all of these ('cept for a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. ^_^) and yet have time to go to tourneys.

Same here (Minus the BF part.).

 

[Frown]

I can't believe you guys are discussing a game like this.

 

[.Marik]

I can't believe you guys are discussing a game like this.

Lol, welcome to SmashBoards.

 

[Frown]

Lol, welcome to SmashBoards.

Thank you. I see that you're quite a veteran at this place.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Married. One daughter. Job. Been to a few tournaments recently.

 

[Ice!]

Where is teh Barwl?

 

[.Marik]

Thank you. I see that you're quite a veteran at this place.

I really hope you weren't being sarcastic when you said that. =\

 

[Collective of Bears]

I really hope you weren't being sarcastic when you said that. =\

When it comes to Frown, you never know.

 

[Atlas242]

well in that case I seem to have no ability to manage my time like you guys

 

[_Phloat_]

We can destroy entire cities with nuclear warheads. Should we. If I were to just ignore this, and tomorrow Im sterill due to nuclear fallout, do you think I can ignore it.

Tier lists don't cause any real harm, if one understands what they stand for.

However, even one who understands everything about a warhead is harmed.

 

[Bowser King]

I really hope you weren't being sarcastic when you said that. =\

I think he was pointing out how he joined in 06 (looong before you) and you joined late last year.

So, yes, he was being sarcastic.





I think.....

-Bowser King

 

[.Marik]

I really hope you weren't being sarcastic when you said that. =\

When it comes to Frown, you never know.

Yep, that's exactly why I asked. >>

 

[Collective of Bears]

well in that case I seem to have no ability to manage my time like you guys

Just like you have no ability to manage your thoughts.

 

[Snowstalker]

I wasn't referring at you lol, I'm just asking WHY people say Yoshi is bad.

Because he has a unique play style, and because people don't immediately understand it, they automatically call him bad. He's not good, but he should move up quite a bit.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

As for getting out to play tournements, I simply have no time. I'd like to, but I can't. When you got school a job and a girlfriend, its hard to find time for smash tourneys

Wait for it...

Got all of these ('cept for a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. ^_^) and yet have time to go to tourneys.

Efficient micromanagement! +1

Same here (Minus the BF part.).

Efficient micromanagement! +2

I can't believe you guys are discussing a game like this.

...I don't know why I quoted this post. +3

Married. One daughter. Job. Been to a few tournaments recently.

Pay special attention to this one. + 4

Just like you have no ability to manage your thoughts.

And this pretty much sums up your presence here. If you don't like the fact that we're a bunch of dorks obsessed with categorizing characters, then please vacate the thread.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Collective of Bears]

I'm hoping Smooth's post will get the point across, 'cause none of ours have seemed to.

 

[Browny]

How is yoshis playstyle so unique?

approach with spaced bairs / projectile spam to camp, a nice mix of GTFO moves and KO smashes/aerials. his recovery could be considered unique, but ness/lucas have equally odd recoveries. The only thing unique is the fact that you cant rely on shield as much as you would with other characters.

If anyone can claim a unique playstyle, its gotta be Snake. Others just fall around the more aggressive/campy playtyles while rarely becoming solely focused on one aspect. Honestly, Yoshi is one of the most basic characters imo, similar to TL and wolf

 

[M.K]

Where would we cut the line between "tourney viable", "possibly useful", and "tourney unviable"?
For instance, the reason I ask this is because of Luigi. I see he is in lower tier...but it's still high-ish for the lower half of the list....
Luigi's position on a Top-High-Mid-Low-Bottom tier list would be...?

 

[Browny]

Use the rankings list to figure that out. although that depends on what you consider 'viable'

if by that you mean, able to place top 8 in most tournaments (including small ones) you could probably go as far down as Pit on the current list (feb 2 version) but otherwise id say the lowest point in rank B are the truly viable characters (to win big tourneys) :/

 

[Flayl]

Where would we cut the line between "tourney viable", "possibly useful", and "tourney unviable"?
For instance, the reason I ask this is because of Luigi. I see he is in lower tier...but it's still high-ish for the lower half of the list....
Luigi's position on a Top-High-Mid-Low-Bottom tier list would be...?

Copy-pasting from another thread:

Depends on how interested you are in winning / the skill base of the tournaments you go to.

Neighborhood/Friend tournaments: Whoever, skill will determine winners everytime.
State (varies greatly): Don't go below D if you want to win, and D doesn't cut it in some states.
Region (also varies, but not as much): Don't go below C
National: SS + S + A + Wario

Theorycraft but tournament data seems to back my opinion up.

Those are the cut-offs for winning, not placing top 8.

 

[Browny]

for winning nationals, id say the only viable characters atm are MK, snake, Falco and wario.

DDD and marth just get beaten too badly by MK (maybe falco to beat DDD?) to ever win. and quite simply, if you ever want to win a national it seems like from here on in, youre going to have to beat multiple MK's in the finals to do it :/ Although i do also think IC's have the potential to be with those 4

 

[Deleted member]

How is yoshis playstyle so unique?

approach with spaced bairs / projectile spam to camp, a nice mix of GTFO moves and KO smashes/aerials. his recovery could be considered unique, but ness/lucas have equally odd recoveries. The only thing unique is the fact that you cant rely on shield as much as you would with other characters.

If anyone can claim a unique playstyle, its gotta be Snake. Others just fall around the more aggressive/campy playtyles while rarely becoming solely focused on one aspect. Honestly, Yoshi is one of the most basic characters imo, similar to TL and wolf

Not reaaallly.
He cant really appraoch with bairs taht much. He has quite a few unique things.
A rediculously long ranged running grab that is punishable but can grab aerial opponents. An aerial grab that has multiple momentum changes along with it, dragonic reverse, etc.
He also should shield almost never in many matchups.
Hes not the most unique, but you are really oversimplifieing him.

 

[Frown]

When it comes to Frown, you never know.

My personality in a nutshell.

for winning nationals, id say the only viable characters atm are MK, snake, Falco and wario.

DDD and marth just get beaten too badly by MK (maybe falco to beat DDD?) to ever win. and quite simply, if you ever want to win a national it seems like from here on in, youre going to have to beat multiple MK's in the finals to do it :/ Although i do also think IC's have the potential to be with those 4

The final tier list will be

Metakight
Ice Climbers
Snake

Those flatfaced eskimos have more potential than John Cleese could imagine.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Meta Knight's tornado > everything

 

[YagamiLight]

for winning nationals, id say the only viable characters atm are MK, snake, Falco and wario.

DDD and marth just get beaten too badly by MK (maybe falco to beat DDD?) to ever win. and quite simply, if you ever want to win a national it seems like from here on in, youre going to have to beat multiple MK's in the finals to do it :/ Although i do also think IC's have the potential to be with those 4

King Dedede has a 30-70 match in the Ice Climbers and 35-65 matches in Pikachu and Falco. I can't imagine Meta Knight and Olimar are particularly good either. I wouldn't bet on him to be winning any tourneys at a national level, but the sheer amounts of characters who he DOES have an easy time with generally guarantee him tickets to the top 8.

Marth, however, is a different story. His three bad matches are Meta Knight, Snake and King Dedede. None of those are in the hard counter 70-30 zone, hell they probably don't pass the 60-40 zone either. Marth's problem is that he only ***** stuff that already sucks, everything else he only goes even with or has a 6-4 advantage, which means that the Marth player has to be genuinely good to even place in the top 8.

Wario is a similar story. He has such a crippling problem (the grab break) that it pretty much acts as a technical barrier to the character. Good players should be able to overcome it and will try their best to not be grabbed, but for the very reason that oftentimes a grab is a stock loss I wouldn't count on Wario being a favorite to win a tourney, as the skill barrier is generally too difficult to pass.

That's all just in my opinion, of course.

 

[Deleted member]

Its generally very hard to win a national tournament with only 1 character(except maybe MK, but even he prefers a secondary).
Fiction won a national wiht wario, but had ICs as secondary.

 

[Flayl]

Yes, Marth and Dedede should have counterpicks (for MK) too. granted, you'll play that secondary a lot, but your main is awesome enough to get high in the brackets by himself.

 

[Vorguen]

Got all of these ('cept for a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend. ^_^) and yet have time to go to tourneys.

Aww thanks for referring to me.

 

[GwJ]

King Dedede has a 30-70 match in the Ice Climbers and 35-65 matches in Pikachu and Falco. I can't imagine Meta Knight and Olimar are particularly good either. I wouldn't bet on him to be winning any tourneys at a national level, but the sheer amounts of characters who he DOES have an easy time with generally guarantee him tickets to the top 8.

Marth, however, is a different story. His three bad matches are Meta Knight, Snake and King Dedede. None of those are in the hard counter 70-30 zone, hell they probably don't pass the 60-40 zone either. Marth's problem is that he only ***** stuff that already sucks, everything else he only goes even with or has a 6-4 advantage, which means that the Marth player has to be genuinely good to even place in the top 8.

Wario is a similar story. He has such a crippling problem (the grab break) that it pretty much acts as a technical barrier to the character. Good players should be able to overcome it and will try their best to not be grabbed, but for the very reason that oftentimes a grab is a stock loss I wouldn't count on Wario being a favorite to win a tourney, as the skill barrier is generally too difficult to pass.

That's all just in my opinion, of course.

Why would DDD have a 30-70 matchup against the ICs? The only thing I could imagine DDD having is range and power. ICs have the speed and a more deadly grab.

 

[Red Arremer]

That MU number means that it's in the ICs favour.

 

[GwJ]

...I knew that.
This seems to be happening to me a lot.

 

[RyanPF]

Where would we cut the line between "tourney viable", "possibly useful", and "tourney unviable"?
For instance, the reason I ask this is because of Luigi. I see he is in lower tier...but it's still high-ish for the lower half of the list....
Luigi's position on a Top-High-Mid-Low-Bottom tier list would be...?

Luigi is not tourney viable by himself because he has horrible matchups against the most commonly used characters. (MK, Dedede, Snake, etc)

That list about the cut-off line as it relates to the size of the tournament seems good, too.

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi is tournament viable. Not sure what you are talking about
He can beat snake and MK(if you can do rising down b without a jump well its a pretty even matchup), D3 is the only terrible matchup.

 

[RyanPF]

*goes to Luigi matchup thread*

35:65 against MK. 30:70 against DDD. 30:70 against G&W, who I forgot about. That sounds pretty un-viable to me. >.>

 

[Deleted member]

=/

see boss.
5th at C4.

sounds viable to me.
That matchup thread isnt so good imo. But i could be wrong.

 

[RyanPF]

OK, but he's only viable for people named Boss. >.>

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

=/

see boss.
5th at C4.

sounds viable to me.
That matchup thread isnt so good imo. But i could be wrong.

Marth is his worst matchup, then GaW. and then Meta. D3 is afterwards and only due to the infinite.

D3 is only bad with the infinite grab and many tourneys ban it. Otherwise that matchup is even since Luigi can't be chain grabbed otherwise and Luigi has incredible combos.