The Official Master Hand Guide

[Kaffei]

Lol, this is so weird

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lol, this is so weird

Thank...you?

Ummm... do we really need an explicit ban? How bout the "if you actually pick him, everyone else in the tournament will beat the crap out of you", type of ban?

It's a character that can only lose by time out. That means that even if you play against him perfectly, you're stuck in the match for 8 minutes, no matter what. It's a character that completely circumvents the many gameplay mechanics, the very definition of broken (even if he's not particularly good). And of course, if you're ever up one life you win. Plus, the game freezes half of the time when you play as him, and the trick itself may take a while to work properly. If this glitch is seriously not bannable... lol.

Thanks for the moveset list though. I was having fun messing around with him, but I couldn't figure out how to do some of the moves. I didn't think to press R or L to attack.

Haha, I agree 100% that he should be banned. But as long as he isn't, this guide exists. There is the "beat the crap out of him" ban, but that will most likely get YOU banned by the TO.

Glad that the guide helped!

 

[Vyzor]

read d*** you read where it says GUN

calm down yo but, i've tried this glitch, Really cool xD I dont know if i'd use him in tournaments though. We'd have to use Stamina Mode or else Master Hand would always win in a stock match

 

[metaXzero]

Ummm... do we really need an explicit ban? How bout the "if you actually pick him, everyone else in the tournament will beat the crap out of you", type of ban?

It's a character that can only lose by time out. That means that even if you play against him perfectly, you're stuck in the match for 8 minutes, no matter what. It's a character that completely circumvents the many gameplay mechanics, the very definition of broken (even if he's not particularly good). And of course, if you're ever up one life you win. Plus, the game freezes half of the time when you play as him, and the trick itself may take a while to work properly. If this glitch is seriously not bannable... lol.

Thanks for the moveset list though. I was having fun messing around with him, but I couldn't figure out how to do some of the moves. I didn't think to press R or L to attack.

Is their anything stopping us from having a certain % be considered as "Master Hand is defeated"? I don't see why not. Heck, even simply have him fightable under Stamina would probably suffice (I forget, since Stamina doesn't go to the Winner screen, does the game still risk freezing?)

MH may be a broken Team Partner, but I can't see him being bannable for singles provided we set something as him being defeated besides the absurd "last 8 minutes against him with a lower percentage and no stock loss" lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

calm down yo but, i've tried this glitch, Really cool xD I dont know if i'd use him in tournaments though. We'd have to use Stamina Mode or else Master Hand would always win in a stock match

Is their anything stopping us from having a certain % be considered as "Master Hand is defeated"? I don't see why not. Heck, even simply have him fightable under Stamina would probably suffice (I forget, since Stamina doesn't go to the Winner screen, does the game still risk freezing?)

MH may be a broken Team Partner, but I can't see him being bannable for singles provided we set something as him being defeated besides the absurd "last 8 minutes against him with a lower percentage and no stock loss" lol

As I have continued saying throughout this thread, we don't make the rules. If YOU are hosting a tournament you can add those rules, but if you were to take Master Hand to Pound 5 as an example, you would HAVE to play by the 8 minute rule.

The game doesn't freeze in Stamina.

The reasons he should be banned are: Wasting time (Both in-game, and while trying to choose him), freezing the game (which in turn wastes time), and requiring a completely different strategy against him than any other character (same reason we ban some stages, over-centralizing bizarre strategies).

 

[metaXzero]

The reasons he should be banned are: Wasting time (Both in-game, and while trying to choose him),

If their are people who seriously can't get the timing down for selecting MH in a convenient amount of time, give a set amount of tries before forcing them to choose someone else?

And in-match, we don't have to go with the 8 minute solution if we define some other standard of defeat like either a certain % or just limiting MH matches to Stamina.

freezing the game (which in turn wastes time),

Well, their is the Stamina solution I brought up since it does get around MH freezing the game at a matches conclusion

and requiring a completely different strategy against him than any other character (same reason we ban some stages, over-centralizing bizarre strategies).

Isn't that what we call a match-up though? Most characters require a different strategy to beat. lol

I honestly don't care either way, but I'd just rather it be we try and work something out rather then just ban him right off the bat for being different.

Though, I truly doubt either way, we'll ever have serious MH players what with his odd playable method and how freaking easy he is to telegraph.

 

[GCommander]

Is this for real? It sounds too good to be true.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Stuff

Like I keep saying though, we can't choose the rules for him.

If we could though, I would probably go with the following:
• Matches are to be played on Stamina against MH.
• If MH causes the game to freeze, he automatically loses.
• If selecting MH takes more than three tries, the player will be asked to choose a different character.
• Corneria cannot be chosen by a MH player unless the opponent agrees.

Is this for real? It sounds too good to be true.

Welcome to Smash World rookie
Yes it is for real. It was discovered a few years ago, check out my first post for any information on the glitch.

Keep in mind this is only for Melee though.

 

[Tien2500]

Is their anything stopping us from having a certain % be considered as "Master Hand is defeated"? I don't see why not. Heck, even simply have him fightable under Stamina would probably suffice (I forget, since Stamina doesn't go to the Winner screen, does the game still risk freezing?)

MH may be a broken Team Partner, but I can't see him being bannable for singles provided we set something as him being defeated besides the absurd "last 8 minutes against him with a lower percentage and no stock loss" lol

If you have to create a whole different set of victory criteria for a character, then they are clearly broken, and should be banned.

 

[metaXzero]

If you have to create a whole different set of victory criteria for a character, then they are clearly broken, and should be banned.

If it isn't a giant convoluted hassle to make playing MH in a tourney feasible, I don't get why'd we'd go with banning. Last time I checked, banning anything is a last resort, not something you just do at the blink of an eye.

EDIT: Won't be replying for a few hours...

 

[Tien2500]

If it isn't a giant convoluted hassle to make playing MH in a tourney feasible, I don't get why'd we'd go with banning. Last time I checked, banning anything is a last resort, not something you just do at the blink of an eye.

EDIT: Won't be replying for a few hours...

It's not a giant convoluted hassle?

First off you have to waste time doing the trick. Second of all, to win against him, you need to last 8 minutes. Doesn't matter if you deal 999% damage to him in a minute, you still have to play through the other 7, or you lose. You're also suggesting that we change the match from stock to stamina, just for him. Assuming we don't do that, we have to reset the game at the conclusion of each match. Besides, even if it's not a giant convoluted hassle, why should we go through any hassle at all?

Banning can be done in the blink of an eye, when a character clearly exists outside of the normal boundaries of the games' engine. For example, if Marth had an attack that hit the whole screen, was an instant KO, was unblockable, and undodgable, we'd ban him (or at least the attack) immediately. We wouldn't need to wait and see.

Similarly, when a character can't be KOed, we know that they break the rules of the game (hence broken). When something is broken, it should be banned.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's not a giant convoluted hassle?

First off you have to waste time doing the trick. Second of all, to win against him, you need to last 8 minutes. Doesn't matter if you deal 999% damage to him in a minute, you still have to play through the other 7, or you lose. You're also suggesting that we change the match from stock to stamina, just for him. Assuming we don't do that, we have to reset the game at the conclusion of each match. Besides, even if it's not a giant convoluted hassle, why should we go through any hassle at all?

Banning can be done in the blink of an eye, when a character clearly exists outside of the normal boundaries of the games' engine. For example, if Marth had an attack that hit the whole screen, was an instant KO, was unblockable, and undodgable, we'd ban him (or at least the attack) immediately. We wouldn't need to wait and see.

Similarly, when a character can't be KOed, we know that they break the rules of the game (hence broken). When something is broken, it should be banned.

Master Hand should be banned.
He is not banned, we cannot ban him from most tournaments, and this thread isn't for discussing that anyway.

When Master Hand is banned, this thread can die. If anyone wants him banned, pose the question to the backroom, it won't do anything on this thread.

 

[metaXzero]

It's not a giant convoluted hassle?

Setting the game to stamina is convoluted and a time consuming hassle or setting a certain % as defeated is a hassle?

First off you have to waste time doing the trick.

We already said just set some set amount of times for the person to select MH. Like 3 or so. If they can't trigger it, have them select someone else.

Second of all, to win against him, you need to last 8 minutes. Doesn't matter if you deal 999% damage to him in a minute, you still have to play through the other 7, or you lose.

OR we could go with Stamina vs. MH or set some % as MH being defeated?

You're also suggesting that we change the match from stock to stamina, just for him. Assuming we don't do that, we have to reset the game at the conclusion of each match. Besides, even if it's not a giant convoluted hassle, why should we go through any hassle at all?

Because it'd be scrubby to ban off the bat and coming up with solutions below banning isn't that complicated?

Banning can be done in the blink of an eye, when a character clearly exists outside of the normal boundaries of the games' engine. For example, if Marth had an attack that hit the whole screen, was an instant KO, was unblockable, and undodgable, we'd ban him (or at least the attack) immediately. We wouldn't need to wait and see.

MH doesn't have anything like that. He's actually pretty bad attack-wise due to how easy he is to telegraph.

Similarly, when a character can't be KOed, we know that they break the rules of the game (hence broken). When something is broken, it should be banned.

Stamina KOs MH. Matches can even end without having to reset everytime.

Though at this point, I feel we should stop here. GrimTuesday clearly doensn't want this discussion in his thread and in the end, we aren't the MBR, so right now it's up to the TOs. I wonder if the MBR is even going to say anything what with the lack of any real MH players lol

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Stuff

Thanks for stopping, if you guys want to continue the discussion I'd prefer if you did it through PMs or another thread.

On another note, I'm taking suggestions for what could be used in the Master Hand "combo" video.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I would think there is some extreme combo vs fox at some percent, but it would mostly be LOLs, edge gaurd and cool looking stuff like a brlaw combo video

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I would think there is some extreme combo vs fox at some percent, but it would mostly be LOLs, edge gaurd and cool looking stuff like a brlaw combo video

Exactly like a Brawl combo video.

 

[andrewajt62]

Isn't master hand completely broken because well, other than in stamina mode, he can't die? And pretty good guide but a ton of it is ripped from Smash Wiki

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Isn't master hand completely broken because well, other than in stamina mode, he can't die? And pretty good guide but a ton of it is ripped from Smash Wiki

A ton of it is written by me, actually. And I credited Smash Wiki.
He isn't broken, he is crap. You can beat him by timing him out.

 

[andrewajt62]

That would mean that even if Master Hand got one kill he would win when the timer ran out.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

you could laser MH once and hhang on the ledge forever really only the could be a problem maybe a a few other moves like the walk on fingers attack.

 

[metaXzero]

That would mean that even if Master Hand got one kill he would win when the timer ran out.

You overestimate MH's attacks.

As was already said, we could go with either Stamina only for MH or 8 minute stall-athons, or just set some % as MH being defeated. Whatever the case, that's for another thread since the TC here doesn't want this being discussed here.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

@ GrimTusday or INSANE CRAZY GUY

Me and my brother are having a debate on master hands best battle field. On one camp of the argument it is Final destination because he has full access to his arsenal unhindered while the other camp it is that with so many battle field variations surely he must have a better battle field. What is your opinion?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I think YS is better by far less space and he can hit them if they camp the edge.

FD if they hit him once nd camp the edge what is he going to do? also battlefeild sucks for him because they can't stand on top and avoid like 90% of everything he has but for grabs and the gun.

 

[Linkshot]

Master Hand it going to get banned for the same reason as Great Bay and Temple.

"Circle Stall"

The only way to beat him is to stall the timer, which is EXACTLY why those two stages are banned; the best way to win is get a lead and run the timer.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

really there are still debates over how he should be used.

I think taking him up 800% is the best but it wouldn't be hard to stall him to death.

 

[metaXzero]

Uhhh.......

Why do we keep going back to this despite the fact GrimTuesday DOES NOT want this discussed here? The discussion on MH's legality can have it's own thread, but please stop bringing it up here. Respect the TC

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Ys, brinstar and rainbow ride are most likly his best stages by far.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Uhhh.......

Why do we keep going back to this despite the fact GrimTuesday DOES NOT want this discussed here? The discussion on MH's legality can have it's own thread, but please stop bringing it up here. Respect the TC

Thanks for keeping it civil while I was at a LAN

Ys, brinstar and rainbow ride are most likly his best stages by far.

Poke Floats would be good if his targeting was normal. I agree that Brinstar and Rainbow are probably his best CPs, YS is his best neutral.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

why does everyone gp nazi on me? like master hand being played, the little pichu that could win, or brinstar depths. I have legit reasoning for all, even if MH didn't freeeze up people would still what him banned because he is different they will keep making up BS reasons no matter what. if the game freezes then don't pick MH anymore for the set fair enough right? setting up takes 1 minute with melee holder 2 with a wii.

it's not to much of a curse is it?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

why does everyone gp nazi on me? like master hand being played, the little pichu that could win, or brinstar depths. I have legit reasoning for all, even if MH didn't freeeze up people would still what him banned because he is different they will keep making up BS reasons no matter what. if the game freezes then don't pick MH anymore for the set fair enough right? setting up takes 1 minute with melee holder 2 with a wii.

it's not to much of a curse is it?

Take it to the blogs ICG.
I'm thinking of taking MH to a tournament soon, I'll tell everyone how it goes.

 

[Siglemic]

why does everyone gp nazi on me? like master hand being played, the little pichu that could win, or brinstar depths. I have legit reasoning for all, even if MH didn't freeeze up people would still what him banned because he is different they will keep making up BS reasons no matter what. if the game freezes then don't pick MH anymore for the set fair enough right? setting up takes 1 minute with melee holder 2 with a wii.

it's not to much of a curse is it?

none of your ideas make sense

no one wants master hand because master hand as a playable character is just ******** beyond belief

i seriously think you're trolling now, no one has ideas this bad and is dead serious about it

 

[metaXzero]

It makes me sad that we keep coming back to MH's legality instead of just discussing things about MH gameplay

 

[Grim Tuesday]

none of your ideas make sense

no one wants master hand because master hand as a playable character is just ******** beyond belief

i seriously think you're trolling now, no one has ideas this bad and is dead serious about it

OFF TOPIC:
In defense of ICG, he is an AMAZING Pichu player, probably much more technical than you or I. If he mained Fox or someone like that I have no doubt he would be up there with the Pros.

And saying "Master Hand as a playable character is just ********" is terrible reasoning -_-.

ON TOPIC:
MooseEatsBear has offered to find the frame data for Master Hand's attacks, I'm sending him a PM about it now.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I suck I really don''t care what you believe about me but that's what I believe. also when I play I am on and off amazing I go from 4 stocked 5 times to just ****** them.

also people fail to understand WHY I play as pichu, I can't really play any other way if I plan to do amazing in the long run other than maybe falco. because I have a number of tricks as pichu and mindgames to f*** with their heads my play systle is mostly about that. I can't do what I want with anyone else.


frame data sounds amazing i'm be neat intrested in how that goes. frame data is fun




at Siglemic when I do some thing like take out the trash or whatever I will normally ask for them not to stab me, call me a *****, steal from the poor or something else crazy. however once my brother didn't do one of the crazy things I asked him not to do and I was about to beat the holy **** out of him.

i'm serious and non serious at the same time.all I see is potital. not everyone here disargees with me. also if you think i'm a troll why are you posting at all? your posts don't did anything for any thread i've read latly your the your the troll troll.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

@INSANE CRAZY GUY Calm down can't we all just be friends?

@INSANE CRAZY GUY or GrimTuesday On the subject of a combo video I know master hand can not combo but how about stage dependent hard to escape damage stacking? I can think of a few of them, bad news is It is really situational and/or on a banned stage so I am just curious to see what you have come up with. Green greens is one of the situational ones when a bomb block falls the result is always fun. I have a few others but they like I said are all stage dependent.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@INSANE CRAZY GUY Calm down can't we all just be friends?

@INSANE CRAZY GUY or GrimTuesday On the subject of a combo video I know master hand can not combo but how about stage dependent hard to escape damage stacking? I can think of a few of them, bad news is It is really situational and/or on a banned stage so I am just curious to see what you have come up with. Green greens is one of the situational ones when a bomb block falls the result is always fun. I have a few others but they like I said are all stage dependent.

Bouncing bullets off walls in Pokemon Stadium/Poke Floats/etc...
I'm sure there are combos where the attacks hit the opponent into a wall or something ready to hit again.
Comboing with hazards.

Thats what I'm thinking of.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have updated several things in the guide. Will be working on the "Rulings" section soon.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Added the guide for playing on Yoshi's Story and some minor stuff...

 

[Ryzol_]

Why would anyone want to play as MH? He has 0-10 matchups against everyone but himself.

 

[mhenlo]

jw what happens if both players want to be master hand in a tournament?
in first game
i no in the other games you choose char based on CP stuff