Queen B. Kyon
Smash Master
mink i go with jew! front seat! lol
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The OFFICIAL FL Brawl 2011 Power Rankings (Updated 8/26/11)
- Thread starter Master Raven
- Start date
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
KYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!! It's been too long
![[FBC] Papa Mink](/data/avatars/l/166/166410.jpg?1363023093){kind=avatar}
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
I'm too long.
Dfear knows what i mean.
Italian Stallions mah niggga
Dfear knows what i mean.
Italian Stallions mah niggga
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
Goddamn right.
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Mink where is your avi from? = o
Heeeeey~
I like winning money
That aside (especially considering I don't live here) money gives people incentive. Incentive to play their absolute best, incentive to travel, incentive to practice as much as they can. Obviously, this is so that they can win and start profiting. Yeah, beating people is awesome and dandy, but at free tournaments there would always be the "Oh there was no money on the line so I wasn't trying" john and people will legitimately not play as well as they would if money is on the line.
Door fees are essential and unavoidable (even Japan has venue fees, which the list openly onlineJapanese stagelist..now I never said that so I didn't jack your swag there but I do remember you talking about it
Door fees are unfortunately essential though as potential venues want it
Regional schedule...don't remember that one. How did polk wreck you? Just made you mad busy ?
). Contrary to traditional logic, a tournament prize pot is not essential. The argument that it's necessary for improvement/attendance/etc. has been thoroughly disproved by Japan. APEX 2012 said anything that needed to be said about their ability to stay competitive without tournament pot prizes, so I don't see a need to discuss that. Japan has tournament entrance caps at their regionals -- and nationals, of course -- that fill up quickly, and those caps tend to be larger than regionals in the U.S. (96 is coming to mind, but I haven't checked in a while).
Polk wrecked me by lacking any professors willing to sponsor a Smash Club there. I tried checking with what I believe is the only local game store, but the owner didn't have faith in Smash (they did have local MK/MvC tournaments, though).
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Ok, in a society where money was NEVER an incentive to play, I could imagine it working. However, you could be damn sure that I would NEVER go to Orlando (if I lived in Miami) to have 0% chance of winning money regardless of how well I placed. What is the difference between 3rd and 4th place at tournaments where you pay out top 3? Huge. What is the difference between 3rd and 4th when there is no money? Nothing because you didn't win so you are "something other than 1st"
Xaltis
Smash Hero
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Poorer is actually the right word here.
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I don't think we should remove money all-together. I do think fees should be reduced however. 5 bux entrance and 5 bux door fee is fiiiiiine for locals.
That would be a real problem to lose 1 tournament entrant at what, 5 tournaments in the past 2 years?
The latter portion of your argument emphasizes my own: If only 3 people make a net profit from entering (which is only occasionally true if you read that post that I made) a tournament that has 24 people, you're not encouraging the other 21 players and it's more likely that you're discouraging them.
That's not exactly a good way to grow/improve a scene.
Indeed, this acts more to dilute the progress that players make until they begin placing in the money. After all, placing 4th and placing 19th
SFL has a relatively money-centric mindset when it comes to Smash and I'm pleasantly surprised that Seibrik is encouraging inexpensive tournaments.
You've been consistently losing money, even when placing top 3.I'm poor I need it
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I'm right there with you MVD ...
$0.00 club?=/
...$0.00 club?=/
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Two-Ell
Smash Master
I'm poorerer :ibwc:
The main reason why people stop play is that they realize how fast these weekly tournaments are draining their bank accounts out. $60-$80 per weekend that you wouldn't usually spend really hurts after a while.
People shouldn't play for money. They shouldn't play for some fake, biased PR. They should play to play the game. To outsmart their opponent. To take pride in practicing the game and learning how to beat one obstacle after the next.
If people can't do that, then the scene for this game kinda deserves to die....
I propose smashfests with only door fees and maybe a bracket to force some kind of structure of order for people getting a chance to play either weekly or biweekly. Tournaments should be held once every two months at the current prices, or maybe even more.
That way, people can play, but at the same time, not go broke and actually have a reason to come back to the next week's event.
Tournaments need to be intense. They need to be harsh rivalries between players. A screaming, powerful, hypefest of smash mindgames with something of value on the line. Tournaments lose their value and having less of them would make the ones we actually have more meaningful.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
When you are in your neighborhood, being "best on your block" means something. When there is a competitive world and you are striving to get good enough to beat them...the title becomes a lot less meaningless. Sure, I like my title as "Best pikachu" or "Top 5 in USA" but there isn't as much incentive as there is with "Oh, I could make profit." Again, this is me and I didn't always used to make money. I lost A LOT of money in Melee, and thankfully profited from Brawl. With no money there is not as much aspiration since winning doesn't get you closer to anything except "Being better." If that is the case, why the hell aren't you just playing wifi or marvel/SF where they have better online connections. I mean, I go to tournaments for money, community, and getting better...but money is an incentive for people to push their limits to the absolute max. Yes people still try hard without it, but not nearly to the same degree; hence the feeling of "Oh, it wasn't a money match so I wasn't trying." It would be the same ****. They COULD be using that to get better...but they aren't because there is nothing to lose. Having something to lose makes people want to win more which makes them want to get better at it. If there is no potential loss, you just play and when you lose it is whatever because there was nothing riding on you winning or not.
Also to add to my point, smashfests will help us learn as a community because we don't have to play to win all the time.
I know, if no one else does, Seibrik would agree with "Playing to win" and "Playing to learn" are two completely different things.
I know, if no one else does, Seibrik would agree with "Playing to win" and "Playing to learn" are two completely different things.
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Kuro~
Nitoryu Kuro
I like tommy_G's idea. Too bad(for me) cfl is freaking mostly dead =/. We tried that smashfest ish. And every week it was just me, keith, and ryan. So keith cancelled it.(even though i wish he hadn't...but he had obvious reasons i can understand)
I strongly agree with Tommy G. If it becomes demanding and people WANT to play for money. Just make Singles $5. I like having no fees to enter tourneys. More people enter. Soooo many people never enter because they don't feel too hot and they don't want to "waste" the money. This way everyone enters.
[FBC] Papa Mink
Smash Legend
I wish i knew.
Xaltis
Smash Hero
@ MVD Okay that works
@ Mink ....my mind.. lol
@ Mink ....my mind.. lol
Master Raven
Smash Master
i'd go to a japan ruleset tourney
2-DJeff
Smash Master
That's a lie. Me, kyon, hrnut, exdeath, dtorr, and gindler all showed up for the first half of it and no one else did so they were like **** that since no one was showing up. Then y'all started to go. I went everytime except the last two. Due to work and me just not wanting to go. You guys did nt show up until half way into the season
AfroQT
Smash Master
A tournament basically is a smashfest, besides Door Fee no one is forcing anyone else to pay for singles or doubles. You can always go to a tournament, not enter and still get plenty of casuals in...
If you're spending 60-80 dollars just travelling to local tournaments you need to manage your money significantly better lol.
Apparently winning money isn't enough encouragement for people to improve.
I find it hilarious that people are starting to think that the CPs aren't good for competitive play and are trying to adapt an all neutral ruleset now. LMao...where was that **** 2 years ago when everyone was all about gaying out the opponent as much as possible. NOW all of a sudden people are worried about improving as much as possible...frayfrayfrayfray. I can name quite a few people who were taking that "Play to Win" **** to the next level yet here we are lol. People want stages like RC removed now lol...i love people man. And by people i of course mean the brawl community, the only place i can expect to find backwards logic on a regular basis.
If you're spending 60-80 dollars just travelling to local tournaments you need to manage your money significantly better lol.
Apparently winning money isn't enough encouragement for people to improve.
I find it hilarious that people are starting to think that the CPs aren't good for competitive play and are trying to adapt an all neutral ruleset now. LMao...where was that **** 2 years ago when everyone was all about gaying out the opponent as much as possible. NOW all of a sudden people are worried about improving as much as possible...frayfrayfrayfray. I can name quite a few people who were taking that "Play to Win" **** to the next level yet here we are lol. People want stages like RC removed now lol...i love people man. And by people i of course mean the brawl community, the only place i can expect to find backwards logic on a regular basis.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
wow xaltis posted something i rly liked lol
but yeah
better late than never
way i see it, whatever mindsets/systems we figure out now, is better than not doing it. All the more we can take with us into the next smash game whenever it comes out.
thats what i did from melee to brawl and half the reason why i think im even good at the game. transferable skills across games.
so ya, never too late to improve, even if its only our mindsets
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Eh, FL is bad anyway. TX > FL
You're not understanding me.I have 0.00 in my account,get at me Taylor lololol... Wish I were joking, not my fault my family needs it exdeath
SFL's scene is too small for anyone but the top 2 placers to have a reasonable expectation of net profit.
You're mistaking your own motivation as being a common motivation instead of having actually spoken with the general community. Viper started his own scene in SWFL and he actually looked for what the general community wanted and asked them as his scene grew. Now his scene is probably bigger than the Orlando/Miami scene combined.
You say that such a mentality doesn't work to help improve, but in about a year's time, Viper went from placing near last place to beating players like Poltergust in tournament and beating players like Pikapika in MMs.
It just occurred to me that I might be giving the impression of advocating free tournaments, when in actuality I'm advocating cheap tournaments. I was merely using Japan as an example.