The Official Election 2008 Thread!

[swim2007]

I think this topic is long overdue. Who do you support in the upcoming 2008 presidential election? It's a simple question but a complicated one. Some people may feel that they agree with a candidate on some issues but not on others. Of course there is no such thing as the perfect candidate. Every person is flawed in some way or form. It is our job as the people in a democracy to choose one person who we think is best equipped to lead our nation. The people we vote for reflect the ideas / beliefs that we hold and who is best equipped to run this country. Therefore in your response please indicate who you support (undecided is also ok with good details), the level of confidence in them, and good supporting reasons why you support that particular person.
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Rules

1. No answers without supporting details.
Example: "I support McCain because I am Republican."
This is not an acceptable reason. Please explain what you agree about with this canidate, why he/she will be the best leader, and what policies that you agree or disagree with. (Just because you support a canidate does not mean that you have to agree 100% with all of their policies).

2. No swearing, hate mongering, racial / sexual slurs, or propaganda. This material will not be tolerated.
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The Canidates Remaining in the Race

Democrats

Barack Obama

The first African American since Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton's failed runs to really have a good chance at winning the nomination and becoming president. Obama has at times been criticized for his "elitist attitude". This is a debatable problem. Another issue is his relationship with his former pastor Reverend Wright. Obama has since denounced his pastor. Besides his shady relationships with other radicals such as Bill Ayers, Obama remains one of the leading fighters for hope in the nation. He is a strong supporter of the middle class, and raising the minimum raise up steadily.

To find out how Senator Obama stands on all the issues please visit: www.barackobama.com.
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Republicans

John McCain

Despite McCain being the oldest man to ever run for President at the age of 71, he has shown great vigor on the campaign trail, reminescent of Ronald Reagan. McCain says he is a "different kind of Republican" and has tried continually to distance himself from current President George Bush. However it is very hard in many people's minds to get away from the Bush administration. The black cloud of the Iraq war is hanging over the Republican party and the concept of staying in Iraq for up to "100 years" as Mcain says, is not a popular idea at all in the country today.

To find out how Senator Mccain stands on all the issues please visit: www.johnmccain.com.
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Independents

Honestly there are just too many independent candidates right now to go into much detail. The leading Independent parties right now are the Libertarian party, (major canidate: Mike Gravel) and the Green Party, (Ralph Nader is not technically the party's nomination, but he shares many of their beliefs after his 2004 run with them).

Mike Gravel

Ralph Nader

www.votenader.org

There are many more independent candidates though and this Wikipedia aricle does a good job of grouping them up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_third_party_presidential_candidates,_2008

Along with these articles found on the politics1 website:
http://www.politics1.com/p2008.htm
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Can't decide who to vote for? Take the Election 2008 quiz: http://www.politicalbase.com/toolbox/&action=takePersonalityTest&testId=8
Please note that many of the canidates that are possible results, after taking the quiz, have already dropped out of the race.

Hope you enjoy this thread / article, happy debating, and good luck to your candidate!

(Also, please let me know if I have made any FACTUAL errors in this article. Thank you!).

 

[Crimson King]

I registered Republican to vote for Ron Paul, despite being 21 years old. Regardless, I won't vote for any of the other people. McCain is way too warmonger for my tastes, which shows he's not a true conservative. I don't support Universal Health Care because the money has to come from somewhere, and why should anyone else pay for other people?

I am already ready for 4-8 years of hell.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I registered Republican to vote for Ron Paul, despite being 21 years old. Regardless, I won't vote for any of the other people. McCain is way too warmonger for my tastes, which shows he's not a true conservative. I don't support Universal Health Care because the money has to come from somewhere, and why should anyone else pay for other people?

I am already ready for 4-8 years of hell.

If you're against paying for the benefits of other people in general, you'd also have to dismiss public works projects, libraries, education, etc.

Mike Gravel comes very close to my political views; his National Initiative plan sounds like it will be a boon to democracy as it will take the absolute voting power away from Congress (although I realise this will never come to fruition without the consent of Congress.) I disagree with his immigration policy, as I am neutral about the situation and most of the information I have gathered is hear-say.

 

[Kur]

I feel I have to say that your description of McCain isn't accurate. He did not say he would stay in Iraq for 100 years. That is the quote mining the media has done. He simply said he was prepared to stay in Iraq for 100 years IF that was what was needed. His plans for iraq would likely have our troops out within 4 or 5 years, though he (rightfully) would not commit to a time table for that. And the Iraq war is not a black cloud for the republican party. Saddam was a real threat. Iraq was harboring terrorists, and what was the US supposed to think when Saddam spent the better part of a year ignoring the UNs requests and refusing to let weapons inspectors into Iraq? Saddam has had and used WMDs in the past, there was no reason to assume he did not have them again. The best evidence AT THE TIME (hindsight is always 20/20 afterall) was that Saddam either had, or was developing WMDs (WMD does not always mean nukes. it could be chemical weapons too)

I would also like to ask, just how is liberating 50 million people from under the oppression of a genocidal dictator a black cloud?


However I would support McCain only because out of the 3 left, he is the most conservative (though not by much)

The idea of universal healthcare is ********. It doesn't work. Just ask a Canadian or Brit about it. It denys more care than it gives and costs each person an arm and a leg. And why should I pay for you to go to the doctor anyway?

Pulling troops out of Iraq on some kind of time table is just a call for disaster. It would be no different than saying "Here terrorists. Have this whole country, we even gift wrapped it for you!"

Both Barrack and Hillary are pathological liars. Neither could tell the truth to save their lives. Barrack has radical racial and political views. He has unrepentant terrorists as friends. His pastor is a racist anti-american nut job. Barrack knew this man for 20 years and only just now disassociates himself from him? Please.

Just look at the liberal policies that have passed in the past. It seems that EVERYTHING liberals touch turns to ****.

Social security - Almost useless and nearly bankrupt. There won't be anything there when it is time for me to retire, yet I still have to pay into it every week.

Public schools - A money pit. Sub par teachers, sub-par programs, sub-par results. Kids aren't getting the kinds of test scores they should be getting.

Global warming - not a policy, but a favorite liberal talking point. Used to get their way on other policies. It is a complete hoax yet governments around the world are spending trillions to prevent it. It is preventing us from drilling for oil, building refineries, and building perfectly CLEAN AND SAFE nuclear power plants. All this liberal mumbo jumbo is costing the US billions of dollars and directly causing our dependence on foreign oil and higher gas prices.


Liberals want nothing more than to raise our taxes to pay for the government getting as far into our lives as it can because they think we are all too stupid to take care of ourselves. They want to tell us what car to drive, what light bulb to use, and how often to water our grass. If liberals had their way everybody would make the exact same amount of money no matter what you do for a living, even if you do nothing, because they take money from the people who earn a lot and give it to everybody else. They call it 'redistribution of wealth'. Let me put it to you like this:

Say you are a student in a class room. On the first day of class the teacher tells you that everybody is going to get a C for the class so everybody passes! BUT, in order to give everybody a C, the A students must still do A work so the extra points can go to the F students. And the B students must still do B work to give to the D students. C students just keep on doing C work. Now what do you think will happen? There are more F students than A students. some A and B students will simply leave the class to go where they can get As and Bs. Most of the students will just not do anything expecting somebody else to take up the slack. The result? EVERYBODY GETS AN F!. This is why the soviet union collapsed. The soviet union was a socialist country. Socialism is the liberal dream.

And Hillary and Barrack are the two most liberal senators in congress! I think if either of them becomes president for more than one term, I just may leave the country.



Of course John McCain is barely any better. He has bought into the global warming hoax hook, line, and sinker. He has way too many liberal viewpoints for my taste, BUT I agree with him 60% of the time so he is the lesser of 3 evils I suppose.

I guess it is all a moot point for me anyway since I don't vote. What use is a voting system where a majority of people can vote for one guy, yet the other guy wins because of the tallying of districts? It literally takes any power out of your vote. Your vote does not count.

 

[Crimson King]

If you're against paying for the benefits of other people in general, you'd also have to dismiss public works projects, libraries, education, etc.

In principle, I am against public education because it's a horrible institution that is vastly inefficient.

I feel I have to say that your description of McCain isn't accurate. He did not say he would stay in Iraq for 100 years. That is the quote mining the media has done.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk

He then validates staying in all the other countries for as long as possible and infuses some fear tactics while at it.

 

[swim2007]

I feel I have to say that your description of McCain isn't accurate. He did not say he would stay in Iraq for 100 years. That is the quote mining the media has done. He simply said he was prepared to stay in Iraq for 100 years IF that was what was needed. His plans for iraq would likely have our troops out within 4 or 5 years, though he (rightfully) would not commit to a time table for that. And the Iraq war is not a black cloud for the republican party. Saddam was a real threat. Iraq was harboring terrorists, and what was the US supposed to think when Saddam spent the better part of a year ignoring the UNs requests and refusing to let weapons inspectors into Iraq? Saddam has had and used WMDs in the past, there was no reason to assume he did not have them again. The best evidence AT THE TIME (hindsight is always 20/20 afterall) was that Saddam either had, or was developing WMDs (WMD does not always mean nukes. it could be chemical weapons too)

I would also like to ask, just how is liberating 50 million people from under the oppression of a genocidal dictator a black cloud?

The descriptions and pros / cons that I put for each canidate our not meant to be accepted by all people. These are basically just talking points and viewpoints on certain issues. I think I did a good job of putting both positives and negatives for each canidate. The McCain comment isnt a factual error it is a controversial point of disscussion. When I said in my first post to correct any errors I meant factual errors. I am trying to keep an unbiased point of view as the creator of this thread.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Crimson King: A public education system is not ********; if it fails on any level, it is our fault and is our responsibility to correct it. Now, of course, our current education system fails completely. There needs to be reform on a lot of levels..

Additionally, if you're against paying for the benefit for anyone, you also have to consider your security. Governments are (generally) set up to protect a people at the expense of complete freedom. And Governments are not cheap.

And Kur, if Hussein was as intimidating and threatening as you make him out to be, then why was he such a push-over when we invaded?

Iraq is harboring terrorists? Last time I checked, EVERY country is harboring terrorists of every kind. Do you think invading a country (and causing a large amount of civilian deaths in the process) would help? If another country invaded the U.S., would you be able to say you're completely comfortable? Would you fight back? Given the right conditions, you probably would. This is the case with Iraq. It has the right conditions for the civilian population to opt for rebellion (like resorting to terrorism.) In short, we're just creating more terrorism than we can extinguish.

I will agree that we can't leave Iraq helpless; I think we have an obligation to help them in anyway we can afford, but that's difficult; it's an Islamic culture with very narrow consumption taste, so we can't really help economically by investing. If we leave, they will be defenseless; likely, Iran or the recently armed Saudi Arabia will invade and claim new territory, or both will try and result in even more conflict.

Your generalizations about liberals are a sad, sad thing. 'Liberal' is a relative term. But let's just use it relatively, show we? Abraham Lincoln was relatively liberal. FDR wasn't afraid to expirement, and became a boon for economic study.

If you admit we have a dependance on foreign oil, then you must also admit there is a limitation on oil availability. Why do we need to consume oil in the first place? Why not focus on an economy that depends on renewable resources, such as solar power? Doing so would increase our status internationally, relieve an economy that is burdened by transportation costs, make transportation a breeze in the process, combat global warming (I will not argue with you on this), and (here's your favorite) it will also deal a huge blow to terrorists who receive their funding by selling oil (This is why your Iraq war fails completely. War > Higher Oil Prices > More money for terrorists > More War) For more on this concept, read on Thomas Friedman's 'Geogreen Strategy'.

Next, you've gone off associating liberalism with extreme socialism. The redistribution of wealth is not an absolutest concept. Minimum wage laws are needed in order to keep the High from entrapping the Low and to keep the flow of trade continueing. If a worker only made enough money to cover living expenses, how is that different from your hated extreme socialism concept? I believe the High deserves their money more often than not, but not to the point that it is constricting everyone.

If the majority opts not to support self-defeating products such as 3 mpg cars or lightbulbs that two weeks, what is wrong with that? Also, water conservation is important, especially in droughts.

I agree that district voting is detrimental to democracy.

 

[SaxDude93]

I feel I have to say that your description of McCain isn't accurate. He did not say he would stay in Iraq for 100 years. That is the quote mining the media has done. He simply said he was prepared to stay in Iraq for 100 years IF that was what was needed. His plans for iraq would likely have our troops out within 4 or 5 years, though he (rightfully) would not commit to a time table for that. And the Iraq war is not a black cloud for the republican party. Saddam was a real threat. Iraq was harboring terrorists, and what was the US supposed to think when Saddam spent the better part of a year ignoring the UNs requests and refusing to let weapons inspectors into Iraq? Saddam has had and used WMDs in the past, there was no reason to assume he did not have them again. The best evidence AT THE TIME (hindsight is always 20/20 afterall) was that Saddam either had, or was developing WMDs (WMD does not always mean nukes. it could be chemical weapons too)

I would also like to ask, just how is liberating 50 million people from under the oppression of a genocidal dictator a black cloud?


However I would support McCain only because out of the 3 left, he is the most conservative (though not by much)

The idea of universal healthcare is ********. It doesn't work. Just ask a Canadian or Brit about it. It denys more care than it gives and costs each person an arm and a leg. And why should I pay for you to go to the doctor anyway?

Pulling troops out of Iraq on some kind of time table is just a call for disaster. It would be no different than saying "Here terrorists. Have this whole country, we even gift wrapped it for you!"

Both Barrack and Hillary are pathological liars. Neither could tell the truth to save their lives. Barrack has radical racial and political views. He has unrepentant terrorists as friends. His pastor is a racist anti-american nut job. Barrack knew this man for 20 years and only just now disassociates himself from him? Please.

Just look at the liberal policies that have passed in the past. It seems that EVERYTHING liberals touch turns to ****.

Social security - Almost useless and nearly bankrupt. There won't be anything there when it is time for me to retire, yet I still have to pay into it every week.

Public schools - A money pit. Sub par teachers, sub-par programs, sub-par results. Kids aren't getting the kinds of test scores they should be getting.

Global warming - not a policy, but a favorite liberal talking point. Used to get their way on other policies. It is a complete hoax yet governments around the world are spending trillions to prevent it. It is preventing us from drilling for oil, building refineries, and building perfectly CLEAN AND SAFE nuclear power plants. All this liberal mumbo jumbo is costing the US billions of dollars and directly causing our dependence on foreign oil and higher gas prices.


Liberals want nothing more than to raise our taxes to pay for the government getting as far into our lives as it can because they think we are all too stupid to take care of ourselves. They want to tell us what car to drive, what light bulb to use, and how often to water our grass. If liberals had their way everybody would make the exact same amount of money no matter what you do for a living, even if you do nothing, because they take money from the people who earn a lot and give it to everybody else. They call it 'redistribution of wealth'. Let me put it to you like this:

Say you are a student in a class room. On the first day of class the teacher tells you that everybody is going to get a C for the class so everybody passes! BUT, in order to give everybody a C, the A students must still do A work so the extra points can go to the F students. And the B students must still do B work to give to the D students. C students just keep on doing C work. Now what do you think will happen? There are more F students than A students. some A and B students will simply leave the class to go where they can get As and Bs. Most of the students will just not do anything expecting somebody else to take up the slack. The result? EVERYBODY GETS AN F!. This is why the soviet union collapsed. The soviet union was a socialist country. Socialism is the liberal dream.

And Hillary and Barrack are the two most liberal senators in congress! I think if either of them becomes president for more than one term, I just may leave the country.



Of course John McCain is barely any better. He has bought into the global warming hoax hook, line, and sinker. He has way too many liberal viewpoints for my taste, BUT I agree with him 60% of the time so he is the lesser of 3 evils I suppose.

I guess it is all a moot point for me anyway since I don't vote. What use is a voting system where a majority of people can vote for one guy, yet the other guy wins because of the tallying of districts? It literally takes any power out of your vote. Your vote does not count.

Lets see here. I agree with the 100 years thing. It is a out of context thing. What I think he meant is what the U.S. did with Japan after WWII. Have a "clean-up" force stay behind and clean up things. That is what I think he meant with the 100 years comment. That's more or less the only thing I agree with you on.

With regards to Saddam, invasions do ****. The best option would to have a crack crew of snipers assassinate him. Sadly, the Ford doctrine prevents that IIRC. The next best thing would be to not get involved. I believe what happens on the other side of Earth should not be a concern to us. Even IF the Iraqis had WMD, we could've spent that wasted money on developing new defense systems. And also, IIRC, the terrorists in Iraq didn't appear until we invaded Iraq.

Universal healthcare should be "opt-in, opt-out." You can opt-in if you want it, but you have to pay for the new livers of drunks and get benefits, but opt-out if you don't. All politicians are pathological liars, so that argument holds no stock. Social Security is meh. I'm going to die by multiple gunshot wounds, so that doesn't affect me. Public schools, I go to a good one, so I'm happy. But I do agree that it could be fixed. Seriously, what is the point of finding out the hypothetical hypotenuse of a *** **** hypothetical triangle. Seriously, when am I going to use that as an adult. Global Warming exist, but is over blown. If and when it becomes a factor, I'm going to be dead so it's not my problem.

And Rev. Wright had a point and was correct in some regards. Also, Socialism is good in theory, but horrible in practice. A government in which everybody is equal and the workers run the state, not some rich senators. But, it sucks in practicality.

And this is quite possibly the best political ad ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK4BzVsAgtY

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

SaxDude93: I agree, that's a very good political ad. Too bad I don't agree with much esle Ron Paul has to say. To me, he is the best candidate behind Obama.

To anyone not very politcally involved, this may give you some direction
(Outdated Personality Test): http://www.politicalbase.com/toolbox/&action=takePersonalityTest&testId=8

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Not a single government in this world is just and perfect. In America there's sexism and racism and therefore, none of the candidates can be "perfect". Politics is based on deception, greed, power and domination. There's nothing good about politics. Therefore, you need to just pick your poison and move on.

You will never get a perfect candidate, because all the people that work in politics are seeking their own personal interest. Neither Obama, nor Clinton, nor McCain really give a **** about the American society. They care about running their own show and preserving a good future for them and their families. When will you people get it?

Don't get me wrong, good things do come out of this. But the way you people look at it is just pathetic.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I feel I have to say that your description of McCain isn't accurate. He did not say he would stay in Iraq for 100 years. That is the quote mining the media has done.

Both Barrack and Hillary are pathological liars. Neither could tell the truth to save their lives. Barrack has radical racial and political views. He has unrepentant terrorists as friends. His pastor is a racist anti-american nut job. Barrack knew this man for 20 years and only just now disassociates himself from him? Please.

But of course, the thing with Barrack is just bad media representation as well.

And the popular vote determines the district vote. So we do matter.

 

[Crimson King]

Just be aware that two times in our history the popular vote did not elect president.

 

[derek.haines]

I voted for Barack Obama in the Arizona Democratic Primary, and I will happily vote for him again if given the opportunity in November. His views are the closest to mine politically, and I have found very few points that I disagree with him on.

Hillary Clinton's views are not too far off politically, and I would likely vote for her if I absolutely had no reasonable alternative, but as I feel the President is ultimately the face of the US to the world I think she would be a poor choice. Plus, the majority of the voter base seems to dislike her greatly already, which would be a poor way to go into a presidency.

John McCain is a senator from my home state, and is a man I respect on a personal basis very much. However, I disagree with him so feverishly that I would never, EVER vote for him. I personally feel that Conservatism is a cop-out overall, and with how easily he's shifted into Conservative viewpoints to appeal to a broader Republican base, I just lost a great part of my respect for him as a politician.

And Ron Paul's viewpoints are alot like Communism--they look great on paper, but would fail miserably if actually put into practice. Actually, I'm not even sure that he knows he's running anymore, as his entire campaign has been run by college students who think they know how to reform the system after a semester of economics.

 

[The Executive]

And Ron Paul's viewpoints are alot like Communism--they look great on paper, but would fail miserably if actually put into practice. Actually, I'm not even sure that he knows he's running anymore, as his entire campaign has been run by college students who think they know how to reform the system after a semester of economics.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

This man's sham of a platform is utterly ridiculous. Unfortunately, the apathetic people around my parts have been suckered in by either him or Mike Huckabee.

I'll vote McCain only as the least of four evils. I'm not sold on anyone in this campaign.

 

[Crimson King]

And Ron Paul's viewpoints are alot like Communism--they look great on paper, but would fail miserably if actually put into practice. Actually, I'm not even sure that he knows he's running anymore, as his entire campaign has been run by college students who think they know how to reform the system after a semester of economics.

Or the fact that most of his supporters come from the Ludwig Von Mises school of economics, which was integral in reshaping the economic structure of Austria when it was in a depression. The fact that college students support him has nothing to do with a lack of understanding. In fact, numerous economic professors I have spoken to support him because he's the only one who actually understands what they teach.

I find it laughable that McCain is considered the lesser of any evils.

 

[RDK]

Normally I'd vote for McCain, but I hate the idea of another Bush so vehemently that I might be forced to vote for Obama (since there's no way in hell I'd vote for Godzillary).

I might just not vote at all. I literally hate all the candidates.

 

[Crimson King]

After the primary last night, it looks like Obama is in the lead with ~200 extra delegates and about 30 extra super delegates. So, it's probably going to be Obama vs. McCain, unless the super delegates vote different.

Yeah, I'm not voting. I need to burn my registration card.

 

[SaxDude93]

So, Obama won the nomination. Thoughts?

 

[Firus]

I'll vote McCain only as the least of four evils. I'm not sold on anyone in this campaign.

I'm with this. I disagree with McCain on a few issues, but I'd vote for him any day over Hillary or Obama. Hillary is sort of moot at this point, seeing as most likely the only way she'll get on the ticket is if Obama chooses her as VP.
As far as I've seen, Obama hasn't even done much but say he'll pull the troops out of Iraq and said he'll bring change to America. For some reason, that seems to get him a ton of support. Not many people that I know actually seem to be familiar with any of his policies. And honestly, Obama makes some pretty obvious mistakes. 20 years of this church and now he realizes that Reverend Wright was that way? And conveniently leaves the church during his campaign? It's pretty clear that he did it for political reasons, not because he actually was shocked and appalled by this. Either he's incredibly stupid and didn't realize what was going on in the church, or he didn't care; either way, it's bad for him. Yet no one seems to care.

Normally I'd vote for McCain, but I hate the idea of another Bush so vehemently that I might be forced to vote for Obama (since there's no way in hell I'd vote for Godzillary).

I don't understand why people are so convinced McCain is going to be another Bush. A good portion of his party hates him because he's not really a Republican...he stands with Republicans on some issues, but have you not heard him talking about his experience working "accross the aisle"? Yeah, he's had a lot of that kind of experience. A lot of Republicans will only vote for him because he is, as The Executive said, the least of four evils.

People seem to see that he's a Republican who is hawkish on the war and supports the Bush tax cuts, and they automatically assume that it's Bush's third term.

 

[GhostAnime]

So, Obama won the nomination. Thoughts?

pretty much expected by me months ago. i guess he makes the history books but looking at his past history from being the senator of illinois to becoming a democratic nominee today.. it's a miracle he got this far that fast. especially against a well-known name such as clinton.

it'll be interesting to see how he handles the general election. the only thing that makes me sick about this whole thing is that blacks are going to be all over this whether he loses or wins.

 

[Grandeza]

I know many people that say they would vote McCain if it weren't for his views on Iraq. Personally I prefer Obama, but I can't vote and I don't look into this stuff much.

 

[Kur]

I know many people that say they would vote McCain if it weren't for his views on Iraq. Personally I prefer Obama, but I can't vote and I don't look into this stuff much.

If you did look into it you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

The man is pure stupid. Every policy or plan that he has would be the utter ruin of this country.

Can you believe he thinks there are 60 states? He said "I have been to 57 states, one more to go, unfortunately I can't go to Alaska or Hawaii."



And McCain is not another Bush. He was the last guy the republicans wanted to nominate, but the liberals voted in the republican primaries and elected him.

McCain supports that stupid Cap-and-Trade bill. He wants what amounts to amnesty for illegal immigrants, and his McCain/Finegold and McCain/Kennedy ideas were horrible. Exactly opposite what Bush would support.

And before you go there, no I am not supporting Hilary either. There is not much of a difference between her and Obama.

McCain is all we've got. He is the lesser of 3 evils.



By the way, don't count hillary out yet. There is still 5 months before the super delegates vote and every one of them can change their minds at any time until then. All Hillary has to do is convince them that she is more electable against McCain than Obama is. And given that Obama keeps saying stupid things over and over again, she just may be able to do it.

 

[GhostAnime]

Can you believe he thinks there are 60 states? He said "I have been to 57 states, one more to go, unfortunately I can't go to Alaska or Hawaii."

coincidently if you -10 from that he would be correct.. so perhaps this was more of a slip-up than anything.

By the way, don't count hillary out yet.

uh.. didn't obama already get the delegates enough to be nominee? i mean hillary even said that tomorrow she'd make an endorsement announcement. i wouldn't bank on anything like this.

 

[manhunter098]

I am voting for McCain because I PREFER his views on Iraq. While every candidate (I hope to god) knows that we cant just pull out of Iraq whenever the hell we feel like it, I think that Obama is more likely than McCain to do it too quickly. And well the main problem will pulling out of Iraq too quickly is that we will be responsible for the outbreak of an all out civil war between the two main groups of Muslim extremists, and because of their preference for guerilla tacts, if Iraq goes into a civil war...its not going to come out of it without outside interference for YEARS.

As for the rest of the issues in the election...I honestly dont care too too much about them. I just wish congress would get off their ***** and do something. Since I am looking to them for my social reforms. But hopefully if we can get even more democrats into congress with the next set of congressional elections, that shouldnt be too much of a problem, but in general they still dont do enough work.

 

[Kur]

coincidently if you -10 from that he would be correct.. so perhaps this was more of a slip-up than anything.

uh.. didn't obama already get the delegates enough to be nominee? i mean hillary even said that tomorrow she'd make an endorsement announcement. i wouldn't bank on anything like this.

Yes subtracting 10 would make it correct, but it isn't. He even had a long pause before saying 57. One of his famous "Uhhh, I have uhhhh, been to uhhhhhhhhh....... 57 uh states, uhhhh, one to go..."

He had plenty of time to think of the word he wanted to use.

But this is but a single example of his stupidity. There are many others.

Such as his great uncle liberating the jews from the concentration camps then coming home only to live in the attic for 6 months because of post traumatic stress syndrome as a result of seeing the horrors of the camps. Well his uncle could not have liberated the jews because the russian army is the one that liberated them.

Once this was brought to his attention, he clarified that his uncle merely spoke with a russian soldier who liberated the concentration camps. Not really the kind of thing that makes you live in an attic though is it?

So not only did he not know basic American history, he made up an outright lie. And then he told that lie without even checking to see if it was plausible or not.

Obama is known as a one man gaff machine.

If a republican candidate had said half the things Obama is getting away with, he would be laughed out of the election. If it was McCain saying things like this he would be accused of being senile.




And no, Obama does not have the delegates. Neither candidate has enough delegates to clinch the nomination. What Obama has is pledge delegates, being super delegates who said they would vote for him when the time comes. They still have 5 months before they can even vote. They can change their minds for whatever reason up until then.

The democratic primary process was designed to take the power of choosing out of the peoples hands. Why do you think there is a such thing as super delegates? It is so the people highest up in the democratic party can pick the nominee instead of the people. The only way the people can choose the nominee is if they overwhelmingly vote for one candidate over another.

And Hillary still has not said that she concedes. All she said was that she congratulates Obama. She is still very much in the race. All she has to do is convince 50 or so super delegates that Obama can not win against McCain, which polls show is true, and that she has a much better chance of winning. She could also just be biding her time for Obama to make too many gaffes or for this much rumored secret tape to hit the press. There is supposed to be a secret tape with something on it so detrimental to the Obama campaign that it would ruin his chances of being elected. There is enough scuttlebutt about it that it may not even need to be true to work.

Until Hillary says "I concede and Obama is the nominee" I won't believe she is done.

 

[Eor]

Clinton has conceded, she has mentioned that everything is over. Tomorrow she's officially dropping out and endorsing Obama, which was announced quite a while ago.

 

[Kur]

Clinton has conceded, she has mentioned that everything is over. Tomorrow she's officially dropping out and endorsing Obama, which was announced quite a while ago.

Ok..

But like I said, I will believe it when I see it. And I have not seen it. She has not said the words. She never said she quit. She never said "concede", all she did was congratulate Obama. She didn't even say what she congratulated him for.

Maybe you are right though. Maybe...

 

[GhostAnime]

Kur needs to watch the news more if he's trying to keep up with politics. your credibility just dropped when you didnt even realize what was confirmed like 3 days ago.

 

[Crimson King]

Yeah... wasn't it stated like Tuesday that Obama officially won and Clinton was going to concede?

Now, the question remains: Joint ticket?

 

[manhunter098]

Oi! If there ends up being a joint ticket, McCain might as well just drop out of the race. But I heard something about Obama preferring to have Bill as his VP over Hillary. Also I dont see Hillary accepting it even if Obama offers her the seat, she is too proud to accept it and probably harbors a bit of resentment for having lost to Obama.

 

[Crimson King]

I doubt she'd reject it. First off, she sets herself as history's first female vice-president. Then, while Obama is in office, she will be able to build a fanbase for the 2016 election, which, barring any unforeseen scandals, she'll sweep.

Secondly, as Vice President, should Obama die, she becomes president. Eor sees me as a bit pessimistic, but I believe that if Obama gets president he will be assassinated pretty quickly. My reasoning? Many people are still blindly racist and with the pro-war, Bush lovers being part of that racist group, Obama would have some dangerous enemies. I may completely disagree with him, but I don't want to see him die. It's just one of those things that I can feel is going to happen.

 

[GhostAnime]

yeah, vice president has to be very important for obama since he has a good chance of dying. i wouldn't prefer hillary really.

mccain needs a good one too. he's old as nails. granted his mother is 95 but you'll never know.

 

[Kur]

Kur needs to watch the news more if he's trying to keep up with politics. your credibility just dropped when you didnt even realize what was confirmed like 3 days ago.

It can't be confirmed yet. Not until the super delegates vote, or Hillary gives up her delegates and concedes. Just because the news says something does not make it true. I'd actually say that makes it certainly false.

Remember she is a Clinton. Clintons don't give up. They are ruthless. She says she throws her support behind Obama but she hasn't given up her delegates yet. Why would she hold onto them? Maybe because she is waiting for Obama to slip up too much?

But like I said before. Maybe you are right. Maybe old Hillrod is too tired to keep fighting. I doubt that, but anything is possible.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Deleted member]

Hillary forfeit any chance of being on Obama's ticket. Had she withdrawn out maybe a month earlier, she may have had some dignity still.

But she doesn't. If Obama chooses her, all it will do is show weakness. He needs to remain strong.

I don't know your systems very well but could Obama choose someone not currently elected?

I'd love to see a Obama / Gore ticket.

 

[GhostAnime]

Remember she is a Clinton. Clintons don't give up.

but she already did concede last week..

I'll believe it when I see it.

then get up and watch the news for once so you aren't stuck in the past. this is a serious change in the election and you can't even get past the part that obama's the democratic nominee yet.

 

[swim2007]

Obama is officially the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party. Saying that Clinton still has a chance is like saying that Ron Paul will get more delegates than McCain. He hasn't officialy
"dropped out" but it is impossible for him to win the nomination unless McCain dies. So unless Obama dies Clinton is out of the race for the Dems.

 

[Firus]

but she already did concede last week..

then get up and watch the news for once so you aren't stuck in the past. this is a serious change in the election and you can't even get past the part that obama's the democratic nominee yet.

Maybe you should get up and STOP watching the news. Just because Hillary suspended her campaign doesn't mean Obama is the nominee. She is still, as Kur said, holding on to her delegates. Until everything turns out for sure at convention, he cannot be named the nominee. Everyone's acting like it's his, and it most likely is, but she is still technically in the race.

The fact that Hillary is still holding on to her delegates means she's not dead yet. This is a serious change, but Kur isn't denying that she suspended her campaign, simply that it means it's over. The battle for the democratic nominee is not necessarily over yet.

By the way, I'm not a Hillary supporter.

 

[GhostAnime]

his post implies that clinton was still *trying* to get the nominee. she already endorsed obama and suspended her campaign last saturday.

 

[Firus]

his post implies that clinton was still *trying* to get the nominee. she already endorsed obama and suspended her campaign last saturday.

Well, she hasn't let go of her delegates yet. If she were truly not trying anymore, she wouldn't be doing so. Also, this way is better for her; she's still technically in the race, but people aren't pressuring her to drop out anymore, because clearly everyone thinks she did. Now all of the talk about the '08 election is "Obama vs. McCain", so clearly no one thinks she's anything anymore. Honestly, I could probably say that Hillary will not win with complete confidence, but you can't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[SaxDude93]

The thing is, if Hillary does jump back in the race, that would mak her the biggest ***** ever. Especially when she already said she'd endorse Obama and fight for him. If she turned out to be an even bigger liar, she looses a lot more votes.