The Official Dark Samus for Brawl thread!

[Chief Mendez]

'not in the same context as echoes'

That's it. That's what Retro said last E3 about it. Something to that effect.

EDIT - I think this argument has been won. Brawl's coming out in '07: http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/05/01/the-big-three-are-coming-in-2007-to-japan/

So this proves what? That the chances of Dark Samus making it in as a clone are higher than it being an original character, due to any time restraints.

 

[Numa Dude]

I don't see how an 07 release date increases the chances of DS being a clone when they have alot of 07 still left.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I don't see how an 07 release date increases the chances of DS being a clone when they have alot of 07 still left.

If that's what you think, then you weren't here for the last few pages. Not saying it's anything definite, but yeah...

Just read back a few pages.

 

[Numa Dude]

I still don't see it. The earliest we will get brawl is probably Christmas no matter what Kojima says. Seriously so what Kojima said it felt complete that doesn't tell us anything other than he likes the game.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I still don't see it. The earliest we will get brawl is probably Christmas no matter what Kojima says. Seriously so what Kojima said it felt complete that doesn't tell us anything other than he likes the game.

I actually wasn't linking Kojima in that top post, but whatever.

The point is, we're getting the big 3 this year (←fact), and we know Galaxy's landing in October.

I think it's rational to think we'll get another of the 3 in November, and the last in either September or December. We know the game (SSBB) is pretty well-done by now, so I think we can expect Brawl within the next 7 months. All speculative, sure, but so is saying that an Xmas release is the most likely outcome.

Hence, it's not too farfetched to think that there won't be time to make all planned characters (like...Dark Samus) wholly original. Thus, we get clones. Dark Samus is a pretty obvious choice if it comes to that.

 

[Numa Dude]

I was reffering to Wiseguy posting a link to the thread about Kojima a few pages back. Okay I get what your saying about the big three and stuff but I still don't see why this increases DS chances of being a clone. They have probably added all of the characters already and are working on stuff like online and 1player modes now so why would this make the chances of clones bigger?

 

[Chief Mendez]

probably

Right there's the issue: probably.

They may have all the characters finished by now, or they may not. I'm saying: if they haven't, then by this point I don't think an original DS is all that likely--a clone or bust.

Of course, if they're finished with the roster, then my argument falls apart, but since we know literally NOTHING about how Brawl's shaping up outside of educated guessing and a few off-hand remarks from the guy who brought us Guy Savage, my points are perfectly justifiable.

 

[Numa Dude]

All the evidence points to they are nearing completion though. They want this game to be perfect and won't want to settle for good enough but not as good as it could be. I think the reason they are releasing the game by the end of this year is because they are getting close to being done with it and not because they want it out for the holidays like many people on these boards think. This could be the last one so they will want to go out with a bang.

 

[Wiseguy]

This could be the last one so they will want to go out with a bang.

The last one? Are to expecting Nintendo to go out of bussiness in within the next year or something? Why else would Nintendo give up on one of their most sucessful franchises?

 

[Chief Mendez]

It's supposedly the last one directed by Sakurai.

...Then again, wasn't Metal Gear Solid 2 supposed to be Kojima's final MG game?

 

[Zarasai]

clone or no clone, DS is still a needed representative for the metroid series (second only to ridley)

 

[Tiamat]

All the evidence points to they are nearing completion though. They want this game to be perfect and won't want to settle for good enough but not as good as it could be.

I'd be absolutely amazed if Dark Samus were a significant factor in deciding whether the game was "perfect" or just "good enough". She's not THAT important.

I think the reason they are releasing the game by the end of this year is because they are getting close to being done with it and not because they want it out for the holidays like many people on these boards think.

Typical videogame industry culture says that you are almost positively wrong. Videogames are NEVER "close to being done with it." EVER. You can delay a game for YEARS like Blizzard does and even then the game gets released without being "close to being done with it" (example: Diablo 2, delayed for years and then finally came out and even then they stated in interviews there was still a lot of stuff they wanted to implement but couldn't in time). Meanwhile, the holidays are ALWAYS a major factor in companies considering a game's release. ALWAYS.

This could be the last one so they will want to go out with a bang.

Typical common sense as well as business sense says you are wrong. Why the heck would Nintendo give up one of their biggest lucrative $$$ franchises just like that? MAYBE it's Sakurai's last Smash game, but even that's doubtful given that if Nintendo can go out of their way to hire Sakurai when Sakurai is no longer part of Nintendo, then they can do it again next time! Regardless of whether it's Sakurai's last game or not, Nintendo isn't so insane as to make it the last Smash game ever.

 

[Numa Dude]

I'd be absolutely amazed if Dark Samus were a significant factor in deciding whether the game was "perfect" or just "good enough". She's not THAT important.

Biased opinion is not fact.

Typical videogame industry culture says that you are almost positively wrong. Videogames are NEVER "close to being done with it." EVER. You can delay a game for YEARS like Blizzard does and even then the game gets released without being "close to being done with it" (example: Diablo 2, delayed for years and then finally came out and even then they stated in interviews there was still a lot of stuff they wanted to implement but couldn't in time).Just because alot of games have been made withought everything the makers wanted in doesn't mean every game in the world is like that. Meanwhile, the holidays are ALWAYS a major factor in companies considering a game's release. ALWAYS. That doesn't mean they will release an unfinished game for the holidays.




Typical common sense as well as business sense says you are wrong. Why the heck would Nintendo give up one of their biggest lucrative $$$ franchises just like that? MAYBE it's Sakurai's last Smash game, but even that's doubtful given that if Nintendo can go out of their way to hire Sakurai when Sakurai is no longer part of Nintendo, then they can do it again next time! Regardless of whether it's Sakurai's last game or not, Nintendo isn't so insane as to make it the last Smash game ever.Nintendo won't make a smash game withought Sakurai and he said himself he might not make another one.

Should I start doing that in a color besides red?

 

[Chief Mendez]

Should I start doing that in a color besides red?

What you should do is start separating the quote like everyone else.

If Sakurai really won't do another one, they're still going to make more Smash Bros. I can't honestly believe that because ONE GUY left the scene, one of Ninty's biggest profit-makers will just stop. Forever.

Tiamat's also right about "done" games. Cory Barlog once said: "There are no finished games, just shipped ones." It's true across the board. Of course it varies, but it's inevitable. Have you ever played a totally glitch-free game? Didn't think so.

 

[Numa Dude]

What you should do is start separating the quote like everyone else.

Happy now?

If Sakurai really won't do another one, they're still going to make more Smash Bros. I can't honestly believe that because ONE GUY left the scene, one of Ninty's biggest profit-makers will just stop. Forever.

Sakurai is the ONLY guy who Nintendo trusts enough to do the smash series and Sakurai has even said Nintendo won't do the smash series withought him because they don't know how to do it right.

Tiamat's also right about "done" games. Cory Barlog once said: "There are no finished games, just shipped ones." It's true across the board. Of course it varies, but it's inevitable. Have you ever played a totally glitch-free game? Didn't think so.

Okay fine I admit I'm wrong about that.

 

[Chief Mendez]

And EAD can't figure out how to make more characters, make better visuals, and build new levels? We might not get another "SSB to Melee" jump in quality...but judging by all the people on these boards, I'd say more characters is all we need.

Remember, we were supposed to get "Melee with WiFi and pretty graphics" at launch. Would you have had any qualms with buying that?

 

[Numa Dude]

I still think Nintendo will want to trust there best series to someone who has proved they can make the game right.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I still think Nintendo will want to trust there best series to someone who has proved they can make the game right.

Thing is...it's not their best series. Sales-wise it's Pokemon, review-wise it's Zelda, and gameplay-wise it's (probably, since this is a matter of taste) Mario (the actual platformers). But sales and reviews can't be argued with. Any other reason is just your opinion.

Anyways, all three of those series have shifted directors numerous times with no deal-breaking (i.e. minor if anything) dips in quality.

 

[Zarasai]

hmm. either way, can somebody go bump the ridley thread? hes a higher priority than DS and a much mroe major viallain (though i still really want DS in too) and i really didnt want to quadruple post

 

[Chief Mendez]

hmm. either way, can somebody go bump the ridley thread? hes a higher priority than DS and a much mroe major viallain (though i still really want DS in too) and i really didnt want to quadruple post

Is can it be link tiem now plees?

Gimme a link; I'm too lazy to type in "Ridley" in the search bar.

 

[Tiamat]

I still think Nintendo will want to trust there best series to someone who has proved they can make the game right.

Instead of thinking, you should be looking at facts. It was stated in interviews that even without Sakurai, Brawl was going to happen. It's just that it probably would have been nothing more than WiFi with added characters and improved graphics (or something along those lines), but it still would have happened.

 

[Zarasai]

so umm back to the dark samus discussion

 

[Deleted member]

Thing is, if you aren't a Metroid fan how is Dark Samus different from Samus? Is there anything visually different bar the colours?

 

[Zarasai]

they would still play differently. physics wise DS would be easier to knock away - she/it generally levitates, so, like mewtwo, would be easier to hit away. she would also have a slower fastfall (she levitates, impying some form of antigravity ability). it is noted in all apearances she moves medium speed, but as very fast dodges and what would probably be considered rolls. it is noted that attack wise, she would have different skills (though probably a variant of the basic charge shot) but other than that uses more or less completely different attacks (boost ball, phazon scattershot, etc). even if you havent played any of the games, after a few plays at dark samus it would be notable that even if she was added as a clone(hopefully they wont if they add at all, but it could still happen) she could play very differently.

Looks wise of course, other than stature/movement/colouring she isn't a whole lot visually different, so yes people who have never played the games (and when brawl is out, do not play her if she/it is in) will probably think clone. My belief is that unless she is intentionally added as a close-molded clone, it would take but a few plays to see how very different she/it would be.

 

[Deleted member]

That's why I see Dark Samus just being a colour change for Samus. Not much difference...

 

[Zarasai]

the idea is that if you havent ever seen her in action before, youre gonna think clone. if you've ever seen any of the dark samus fights (theres atleast 3 in prime 2, depending on if you count the last as 2 fights or not whichd make 4) you will know how extremely different she/it is.

the biggest factual similarity is the colouration and body shape. mechanicsand abilities wise, she would easily be completely different (though i woudl play her/it even as a clone)

 

[Numa Dude]

Instead of thinking, you should be looking at facts. It was stated in interviews that even without Sakurai, Brawl was going to happen. It's just that it probably would have been nothing more than WiFi with added characters and improved graphics (or something along those lines), but it still would have happened.

I'm sorry I don't waste my life looking up things on the internet for a freaking video game. On topic Dark Samus will probably get in brawl clone or not.

 

[Red Exodus]

Smash Daddy, the same can be said for every other franchise.

"If you aren't a Zelda fan how is WW Link different from TP Link?"
"If you aren't a Pokemon fan how are Pokemon different from other Pokemon?
"If you aren't a Mario fan how is Luigi different from Mario"

I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the drift.

Like Zarasai said, you are going to think "clone" as soon as you see DS if you've never played MP2, but once you see it fight in boss battles the last thing on your mind would be clone. They don't share anything other than the same type of suit, other than that they're completely different.

 

[Stryks]

That's why I see Dark Samus just being a colour change for Samus. Not much difference...

Saying dark samus should be an alt. costume for samus is like saying kirby should be an alt. costume for jiggs, when theyre totally diferent characters...

 

[Deleted member]

Smash Daddy, the same can be said for every other franchise.

"If you aren't a Zelda fan how is WW Link different from TP Link?"
"If you aren't a Pokemon fan how are Pokemon different from other Pokemon?
"If you aren't a Mario fan how is Luigi different from Mario"

I can go on and on but I'm sure you get the drift.

Like Zarasai said, you are going to think "clone" as soon as you see DS if you've never played MP2, but once you see it fight in boss battles the last thing on your mind would be clone. They don't share anything other than the same type of suit, other than that they're completely different.

Those other characters are very different, or at least have one or two major differences. WW Link is a child, TP Link is an adult. Different Pokemon mostly look completely different and have different names. Luigi is green, taller, the Mario franchise is the largest and one of the most recognised. However, Dark Samus is hardly as well known as any of those Zelda/Mario characters, and Pokemon are just completely different if you look at them and read their names.

What will be harder is showing the difference to those who don't understand, some people will take one look and think that's actually Samus in a sort of "evil form".

I want Dark Samus too, don't get me wrong, but I have my doubts.

 

[OysterMeister]

What will be harder is showing the difference to those who don't understand, some people will take one look and think that's actually Samus in a sort of "evil form".

I want Dark Samus too, don't get me wrong, but I have my doubts.

Actually, in the game the difference between Samus and Zamus will be easy to see, through the miracle of animation. Luigi and Mario both look pretty similar, right? Both are squat plumbers, but one is a slightly taller squat plumber in a differently colored costume. It's the way that they move that sets them apart the most. Right of the bat, just by looking at them, you an tell that Luigi is a lighter, slidier character.
This difference would theoreticaly be even easier to see between characters such as Samus and DS. Samus walks, DS does this evil hovering of the ground thing. The differences will probably become even more apparent once the characters attack. Samus has a cannon for an arm, DS has a shotgun.

Also, if you look closely, DS isn't just a color swap. She's just shaped like the varia suit, but you can see that she's got real fingers and toes. She isn't completely covered like Samus is. Also, DS has some awesome blue particle effects around here eyes and shoulders. You know, for phazon.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I'm sorry I don't waste my life looking up things on the internet for a freaking video game.

Says the man with 0NE THOUSAND POSTS on an internet forum devoted to one single game series.

 

[Red Exodus]

Owned. Good thing I'm not a hypocrite when it comes to post count/join date.

I want to get over 9000 posts so people can go:

"Hey look at Red Exodus' post count! IT'S OVER NINE THOOOUUSSAAANNDDD!!!!!!"

Oyster is right about DS, the differences are much more noticable than other characters. Like I said, the closest thing they share is a the suit type. Both are Phazon suits, but Samus' is based on some upgrades for moving through the environment effectively and DS' is... for stealing phazon blowing the crap out of everything. She'd probably be slower.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, in the game the difference between Samus and Zamus will be easy to see, through the miracle of animation. Luigi and Mario both look pretty similar, right? Both are squat plumbers, but one is a slightly taller squat plumber in a differently colored costume. It's the way that they move that sets them apart the most. Right of the bat, just by looking at them, you an tell that Luigi is a lighter, slidier character.
This difference would theoreticaly be even easier to see between characters such as Samus and DS. Samus walks, DS does this evil hovering of the ground thing. The differences will probably become even more apparent once the characters attack. Samus has a cannon for an arm, DS has a shotgun.

Also, if you look closely, DS isn't just a color swap. She's just shaped like the varia suit, but you can see that she's got real fingers and toes. She isn't completely covered like Samus is. Also, DS has some awesome blue particle effects around here eyes and shoulders. You know, for phazon.

You're probably right. I'm not too knowledgeable about the second game, I've only completed it once in a few years ago. Even with that information handy, Ridley probably will be still considered enough if even he's in. They added two new Pokemans in 'Melee, two Fire Emblem characters and no Metroid characters... Despite having Ridley in the introduction video. They did the same with S.Goroh. Stupid video got my hopes up.

 

[Zarasai]

You're probably right. I'm not too knowledgeable about the second game, I've only completed it once in a few years ago. Even with that information handy, Ridley probably will be still considered enough if even he's in. They added two new Pokemans in 'Melee, two Fire Emblem characters and no Metroid characters... Despite having Ridley in the introduction video. They did the same with S.Goroh. Stupid video got my hopes up.

/gives cookie :D

 

[Tiamat]

Luigi actually looks VERY different from Mario in terms of sheer looks alone. He's tall and skinny while Mario is short and fat. That's POLAR OPPOSITE. You really can't get particularly much more different looking than that in terms of body shape (of course, they do have the same taste in clothes, but you'd have to be blind to not see the body shape difference right off the bat these days).

In any still-picture without animation, Dark Samus pretty much looks EXACTLY like Samus except... dark. Of course, in actual animation and moves, she's completely different (in the Prime games). The question for Sakurai **IF** he decides to include Dark Samus as an actual character would then become a matter of asking how much it's worth the effort, time, resources, and thus $$$$ money $$$$ to EITHER program a character who looks exactly like Samus in terms of body shape AND suit but plays and animates completely differently with a non-cloned moveset or to program a character who looks exactly like Samus in terms of body AND suit and plays with a cheaper-to-program cloned moveset.

Of course, the non-cloned moveset would be more true to the character, but in crunch time, that doesn't really matter (see: Melee Ganondorf. When you're desperate to get things in on time, you don't care how true to the character you are, it appears)

Alternate options of course include Costume Change or nothing-at-all (although I'd be surprised if it were the latter. Costume changes aren't particularly hard or expensive to do, I think).

 

[Zarasai]

:D if she shows up at all i'll happy, and while i would prefer originality i could probably live with a clone

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I think the way they'd go about all this is to go from character to character... So if Dark Samus was in there, with Ridley already added, he/it would take up another character's space or be right at the end of the list and be a semi/clone. If that happens, there'll be nothing but the fingers and toes to differentiate between the two.

 

[Zarasai]

>.< i could live with a DS clone, though id rather see original

 

[Meta77]

Yea dark samus deserves more rep. Shes so misunderstood in the game.