The Official Chaingrabbing Thread.

[M.K]

no offence to ice climber users like yourself but every ice climber user chain grabs or does cheap stuff while being grabbed like smashing or blizzard or something

and if you have proof that im wrong prove me wrong

Shut it. The Ice Climber chain grab is hard enough to pull off. Combine that with the Ice Climber's horrendous grab range and you get something that DOES NOT break the meta-game.

 

[LegendofLink]

The primary problem with the "chain grabs break the metagame" argument is that they quite obviously not doing anything of the sort. If they were, then Ice Climbers and DDD's would be dominating the tournament scene. If anything, MK is breaking the metagame more than chain grabs and infinites, and he hasn't been found to be ban worthy yet.

 

[Son1x-]

DI says hi >_>
he has a minor fthrow cg, but it's up to 20 at most and can be avoided with DI.

its actually to 40 DK and 30 to Bowser, unescapable. But yea, that arrow loop cg thing is possible too, but too much effort.

 

[Plum]

Anyone who hates DDD's infinite just need to find a secondary and shut the hell up...
And aren't only two characters really affected by it anyway? Samus, Luigi and Mario don't get hurt by the infinite until percents where they are dead anyways IIRC.
As for DK and Bowser, seriously find a secondary. The whole rest of the cast can't be infinited, and a chunk of those characters can't even be chaingrabbed...
Fighting games when at the competitive level are games of counterpicking characters, and in Smash a game of stages too. Learn to use an element of EVERY fighting game.

I secondary IC, so I know from experience when I say that we have matches where we get kills less than from the infinites than actually using them. **** grab range, Nana's ******** AI, random desynching when recovering, and etc. So much goes on that any IC who relies on the infinites need to really learn how to play IC. You aren't going to go anywhere thinking their infinites will get you a win.

I've seen players who never mess up an infinite lose the first round of a tourney because they failed to learn the basic gameplay of IC, or even worse those that know both infinites and the rest of the IC play lose first round because Nana being killed really easily. (How about giving Nana the level 9 AI and reaction speed along with the desynchs )

 

[XxBlackxX]

no offence to ice climber users like yourself but every ice climber user chain grabs or does cheap stuff while being grabbed like smashing or blizzard or something

and if you have proof that im wrong prove me wrong

uh...so what?

nothing in the game is "cheap". it's called playing effectively and playing to win

if it's in their characters' moveset and it works, then they have every right to do it. if you don't like it, too bad (or switch to ICs and do it yourself >_>)

 

[Browny]

Some people really need to be plank'd for saying stuff like that

 

[The_Dyne]

Some people really need to be plank'd for saying stuff like that

Was that directed to XxBlackxX?

 

[Browny]

yessssssss

 

[XxBlackxX]

Some people really need to be plank'd for saying stuff like that

uh...go ahead.
sure, plank me, sure, i won't like it, but i won't ***** about it either. it's calling DEALING WITH IT YOURSELF.
are you in the "ban planking" group then? because that's just stupid. it's a legitimate tactic in the game and if people want to use it, they're free to do so. >_>

 

[Barge]

Some people really need to be plank'd for saying stuff like that

You didn't make a point. Planking is legal in the tournament scene, making it completely reasonable to plank someone. Your fault for being below them in %, I guess.

 

[Hype]

Speaking of planking I hate it when someone refers to it as "ledge stalling," It is not stalling.

 

[Ballistaboy]

Also about these chain grabs, if you want them banned and they are really that annoying to you, do it yourself and get it banned. Pick up D3 and find the times for 5 diff chars and CG them to get it banned.

That is the only CG that I don't like, it takes little to no skill, i learned all 5 times in about 20 minutes, and D3 is pretty good as it is so he doesn't need an infinite.

On the ICs discussion i play him and can pretty effectively chain grab, but anyone with knowledge is gonna get Nana away and stay out of the grab range by using some like Marth or Metaknight.

Unless that IC player is smart and doesn't make a HUGE effort to get a grab then the oppurtunities will come before you, like adding 20% and killing them.

If however they do get the grab a low % and manage to kill you with it by not messing up, that takes soooo much skill and timing and remembering to do. I cant even CG 0%-death people with ICs because it is so hard and takes tons of practice. ICs use Desynchs and other ATs to rack up damage while trying to get the grab.



Falco can 0-death plenty of people actually with his dthrow CG to dair spike at the end, especially to heavier characters and characters with not so good recoveries. It is more situational and can be avoided easier (stand by the edge and know %s) than D3's standing infinites

 

[XxBlackxX]

Also about these chain grabs, if you want them banned and they are really that annoying to you, do it yourself and get it banned. Pick up D3 and find the times for 5 diff chars and CG them to get it banned.

That is the only CG that I don't like, it takes little to no skill, i learned all 5 times in about 20 minutes, and D3 is pretty good as it is so he doesn't need an infinite.

On the ICs discussion i play him and can pretty effectively chain grab, but anyone with knowledge is gonna get Nana away and stay out of the grab range by using some like Marth or Metaknight.

Unless that IC player is smart and doesn't make a HUGE effort to get a grab then the oppurtunities will come before you, like adding 20% and killing them.

If however they do get the grab a low % and manage to kill you with it by not messing up, that takes soooo much skill and timing and remembering to do. I cant even CG 0%-death people with ICs because it is so hard and takes tons of practice. ICs use Desynchs and other ATs to rack up damage while trying to get the grab.



Falco can 0-death plenty of people actually with his dthrow CG to dair spike at the end, especially to heavier characters and characters with not so good recoveries. It is more situational and can be avoided easier (stand by the edge and know %s) than D3's standing infinites

1st of all, how easy or difficult a move is has nothing to do with whether the move should be banned. if it over-centralize the metagame or breaks it, we ban it no matter how "hard" it is. the infinites don't over-centralize, so even though they are easy to pull off, a ban isn't warranted.

and 2nd, falco's CG -> spike isn't 0-death anymore. it's techable.

 

[Barge]

Speaking of planking I hate it when someone refers to it as "ledge stalling," It is not stalling.

Isn't it intended for stalling? As plank preformed so he could win the match. =/

 

[GofG]

Shut it. The Ice Climber chain grab is hard enough to pull off. Combine that with the Ice Climber's horrendous grab range and you get something that DOES NOT break the meta-game.

Your definition of "hard" is insane.

INSANE.

Learning to waveshine with fox, to multishine with fox, to fair uair in one sh with marth consistently, to play bowser well on yoshi's story...

to correctly four-split your probes in the beginning of a starcraft match, to stack your mutalisks using an overlord EFFECTIVELY, to lurker egg block off a bridge, to goon micro...

to perfectly full roman cancel your attacks in GG, to know WHEN to frc or when to save your meter...

to write shell scripts for a bash shell...

to play the piano at a professional level...

to manage a football team at a semi-regional competitive level...

to play chess at a casual level...



...learning to infinite easily and reliably with the Ice Climbers is a thousand times easier than things that people do all the time. It takes LESS THAN A MONTH of practice.

**** you.

 

[Hype]

Isn't it intended for stalling? As plank preformed so he could win the match. =/

It's intended to put your opponent in an unfavourable position. If they choose not to attack it's on them. The reason I don't call it stalling is because nothing is stopping the person losing from attacking.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

...learning to infinite easily and reliably with the Ice Climbers is a thousand times easier than things that people do all the time. It takes LESS THAN A MONTH of practice.

Wow..? 0.o

The ICs have more than that, and it's not even less than a month of practicing it. Once you practice it doesn't mean you've mastered it. And yet for me it wasn't less than a month of practicing it, ever since March I've practiced their CGs, then so on, and finally as of right now not yet, I still mess it up online. Yes online... :'(

The ICs depending on their grab game & CGs have...
Horrible grab range.
39 total timings on each character.
Lots of CGs and other infinites.
Nana's terrible AI; separate her and your useful CGs are gone.
Chain grab online. (Online users actually)

They also have desynchs which is kind of hard to learn at the start, so combine all CGs, the list above, desynchs, their game, etc. whatever if it's not even less than a month. .__.

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

I can care less about people who chaingrab, as a chaingrabber, it should be limited...

 

[GofG]

ChibiIceClimberz, I could dthrow > bthrow > dthrow > bthrow forever on half the cast in a day, and the rest of the cast in a week.

WATASHI SUCKU ATU ICE KERIMARU DESU <--- my impression of you


:D /hug

 

[Barge]

ChibiIceClimberz, I could dthrow > bthrow > dthrow > bthrow forever on half the cast in a day, and the rest of the cast in a week.

WATASHI SUCKU ATU ICE KERIMARU DESU <--- my impression of you


:D /hug

So wait...what side are you on.

 

[GofG]

I'm on the melee side.

Oh, you mean in terms of banning them?

Lol. That's hilarious. Iceys aren't even tournament viable.

 

[Barge]

Ugh, seriously, people who know IC's can easily not get grabbed.
People who complain about chain grabs probably really suck at brawl.

 

[GofG]

People who complain about chain grabs DEFINITELY suck at melee, and I think that's the real problem here.

 

[Luigi player]

People who complain about chain grabs DEFINITELY suck at melee, and I think that's the real problem here.

That is not relevant though. I don't see how them sucking at Melee is the "real problem" here.
You're at the Brawl boards, remember? This is not Melee.

 

[XxBlackxX]

That is not relevant though. I don't see how them sucking at Melee is the "real problem" here.
You're at the Brawl boards, remember? This is not Melee.

yes, whether or not someone sucked at melee is irrelevant. but brawl can still use the same ruleset/ban criteria as melee. melee had infinites and "unviable" characters, and they weren't banned, and melee had a healthy metagame. why do we need to change that for brawl? the D3's infinites do not over-centralize or break the game as a whole. therefore they don't need to be banned.

 

[supersupersuperguy]

I absolutely dispise any techninique that can turn a match one-sided, such as chaingrabbing. I think the fun is not in the winning, but in the match. What's the fun of chaingrabbing so much that one player is virtually guaranteed the win? Every player, even ones that like to use characters like Lucas and Ness that can be chaingrabbed by many a character, deserves an EQUAL chance of winning. DeDeDe players should learn that, but not everyone is like that. I have strange tastes in rules, so anyone who dislikes this, feel free to disagree.

 

[Barge]

I absolutely dispise any techninique that can turn a match one-sided, such as chaingrabbing. I think the fun is not in the winning, but in the match. What's the fun of chaingrabbing so much that one player is virtually guaranteed the win? Every player, even ones that like to use characters like Lucas and Ness that can be chaingrabbed by many a character, deserves an EQUAL chance of winning. DeDeDe players should learn that, but not everyone is like that. I have strange tastes in rules, so anyone who dislikes this, feel free to disagree.

Play to win, competitive matches aren't supposed to be "fun and fair"

 

[Gaussis]

Every player, even ones that like to use characters like Lucas and Ness that can be chaingrabbed by many a character, deserves an EQUAL chance of winning.

This is by far, not true.

 

[rinoH]

Play to win, competitive matches aren't supposed to be "fun and fair"

QFT plus your playing for money

 

[0RLY]

If you hate Brawl chaingrabbing, go play some Melee and tell me why those chaingrabs aren't as cheap as Brawl's.

 

[hizzlum]

Play to win, competitive matches aren't supposed to be "fun and fair"

The competitve brawl metagame is supposed to be fun, and it is, even with CG;s and infinites, we dont care if someone is whining in the back saying MK should be banned or the infinite should be an automatic DQ, we are having fun in this metagame while making money and meeting great people, I agree with your statement barge, but I must add that the competitve metagame is the best way to play brawl and is very enetertaing with CG;s and the rest

If you hate Brawl chaingrabbing, go play some Melee and tell me why those chaingrabs aren't as cheap as Brawl's.

so true its not even funny, melee has CG;s that require a lot of skill and if ur fed up with that go play another game lol

 

[Tianxiazhai]

Pikachu Vs Fox

Enough said.

 

[Ballistaboy]

1st of all, how easy or difficult a move is has nothing to do with whether the move should be banned. if it over-centralize the metagame or breaks it, we ban it no matter how "hard" it is. the infinites don't over-centralize, so even though they are easy to pull off, a ban isn't warranted.

and 2nd, falco's CG -> spike isn't 0-death anymore. it's techable.

I guess your right about how difficult it is doesn't matter in the banning, but like the other people after you said, IC's don't break the game, we are having the most trouble with a character that doesn't have CG's also. If they were better and had better grab range, say as good as D3, way more people would use them but they don't so it really doesn't matter with them.

Show me a video where someone techs a dthrow.

If your talking about the dair spike after the dthrow, you can't tech offstage so i have no clue what you're talking about. All good falcos can space the down throws right so the dair is off stage.

 

[Barge]

The competitve brawl metagame is supposed to be fun, and it is, even with CG;s and infinites, we dont care if someone is whining in the back saying MK should be banned or the infinite should be an automatic DQ, we are having fun in this metagame while making money and meeting great people, I agree with your statement barge, but I must add that the competitve metagame is the best way to play brawl and is very enetertaing with CG;s and the rest

I find competitive matches fun, but casual players don't find "cheap tricks" fun. That was my point, it's not supposed to be fair if you're playing to win.

 

[SothE700k]

I absolutely dispise any techninique that can turn a match one-sided, such as chaingrabbing. I think the fun is not in the winning, but in the match. What's the fun of chaingrabbing so much that one player is virtually guaranteed the win? Every player, even ones that like to use characters like Lucas and Ness that can be chaingrabbed by many a character, deserves an EQUAL chance of winning. DeDeDe players should learn that, but not everyone is like that. I have strange tastes in rules, so anyone who dislikes this, feel free to disagree.

 

[XxBlackxX]

I guess your right about how difficult it is doesn't matter in the banning, but like the other people after you said, IC's don't break the game, we are having the most trouble with a character that doesn't have CG's also. If they were better and had better grab range, say as good as D3, way more people would use them but they don't so it really doesn't matter with them.

Show me a video where someone techs a dthrow.

If your talking about the dair spike after the dthrow, you can't tech offstage so i have no clue what you're talking about. All good falcos can space the down throws right so the dair is off stage.

yeah. the D3 infinites don't break the game or over-centralize the game either.

as for the falco chaingrab->spike, you can't tech the dthrow. you SDI towards the stage after the spike and tech it. ill go find a vid right now

EDIT: here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

 

[Vlade]

Curses, XxBlackxX!

Now everyone knows!!!

Even though observant people probably already knew about it.

 

[rehab]

If you chaingrab them right to the end of the edge, closer to it than dannykat was doing, would it be possible to make them teching the spike harder, or could you still even spike them? just brainstorming

 

[KillerSOS]

i think you could still tech it.

 

[Omit]

I could have sworn i did an infinite grab on Wolf the other day. I forgot too save the replay tho. But maybe i just did an walking chaingrab : [