The official captain falcon's potential discussion thread

[illinialex24]

OH MY GOD. WTF Alex??? I can't believe you just said I was going to scrub their ***.

@V: I just want you guys to be aware that what you're saying is very scrubish because if you weren't aware of it, then you guys would just start being like, oh, doing this is so good, oh man, we're so good, when it wouldn't be so, in a way, I'm helping you by being as *******

Lol, I wasn't serious at all. I was just trying to use every variation of scrub as possible.

 

[HiddenBowser]

haha, wow.

 

[Zeallyx]

Ready to get your *** scrubbed by Bowyer??

ehm yeah sure

and @ bowyer: well thanks for beeing ****** then

 

[Wogrim]

Close thread plz

 

[crewster]

lets get beck on topic (falcons potentional).

 

[__V]

Falcon Dive (up+B). Discuss.

 

[Face124]

Falcon Dive (up+B). Discuss.

well ill just copy paste the points i made in my thread.

But anywyay, I've noticed when playing other falcons, that they never EVER use Falcon Dive. But I think its great. Firstly, it does 17%,so would need 5 hits (assuming there is no damage depreciation) for a d-throw to do that. Secondly, no-one uses it, making it a great surprise attack that people won't see coming if they are next to you. And, it has FAR more range than a grab:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qqY3SICZtIE
Also, Its amazingly effective when they are on a platform above you, which is likely to occur quite a lot of times during a match on four of the nuetral stages. When in that position I have never seen anyone spotdodge, they always shield, and there tends to be a point where they will hold the shield, which is your oppertunity for a surprise 17%.
And lastly, if your having trouble killing someone who is on a high percentage, who realises Falcons grabs can't kill them, so only shields: this is your counter.

the only downside i can see is that its punishable, but only a little. While in the hitstun, you can alternate between fastfalling and naturally falling, and can use Falcons great air mobility to help.

I'm not saying this should replace grabs or anything, because grabs are great, but maybe don't just dismiss the idea, because there will be situatuions where it is the best option.

also raptor boost and u-throw seem to string into it well.

Ayaz was speculating the jab cancel to it, which would be a good 22% and good kill combo at high percents (or at least set up for an edgegaurd)

edit: the jab cancelled grab works better.

 

[__V]

Perhaps Dtilt>Dive would work? Dunno, I'll try it later.

 

[Zeallyx]

Perhaps Dtilt>Dive would work? Dunno, I'll try it later.

this could work
or perhaps Dash attack>Dive
or autocancel'd Dair>Dive (real combo?)

 

[Face124]

this could work
or perhaps Dash attack>Dive
or autocancel'd Dair>Dive (real combo?)

d-air to dive, well, i tried that a lot in training, but it never registered as a combo, and im sure knee would probably be better.

dash attack to dive might work, although dash attck has a lot of ending lag, se it might be very easy to dodge

 

[Roager]

Dtilt to dive... No. Too much ending lag on dtilt, i'd say. Dash attack to dive could work, but you'd want to hit with the dash attack closer to the end. Dair, i see some use.

 

[Zeallyx]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200879
:D

also, at like the 60-70 percents (I guess higher for heavy weights and lower for the lightest cahracters) Dair really combo's into another Dair (wich I guess is known) but from there we can techchase to grab/knee etc :D
just thought I'd better throw it out there

Edit: 0.0 I just did a Dair>Dsmash as 2 consecutive hits :D
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200903

Edit 2: Dair>Utilt is also a real combo (2 consecutive hits) :D wich does a total of 27%
damage and it works on an opponent falcon at around 77%
falcon ftw
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200907 :D

 

[Face124]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200879
:D

also, at like the 60-70 percents (I guess higher for heavy weights and lower for the lightest cahracters) Dair really combo's into another Dair (wich I guess is known) but from there we can techchase to grab/knee etc :D
just thought I'd better throw it out there

Edit: 0.0 I just did a Dair>Dsmash as 2 consecutive hits :D
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200903

Edit 2: Dair>Utilt is also a real combo (2 consecutive hits) :D wich does a total of 27%
damage and it works on an opponent falcon at around 77%
falcon ftw
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200907 :D

The only problem i can see is if the d-air starts to get overused as anj approach at higher percents it will get really predictable. So maybe don't rely on it TOO much.

 

[Zeallyx]

The only problem i can see is if the d-air starts to get overused as anj approach at higher percents it will get really predictable. So maybe don't rely on it TOO much.

yes that is true, but if these combo's are real (wich I think they are :D but there has to be done more testing to be certain, although I always was under the impression that the way to test this is do it in training and see if the hits are consecutive..wich is the case in these combo's) there are more than one combo and they depend on the precentage, so the one can mix in the combo's into his/her game and use one from time to time, wich will make falcon better IMO

Edit: something like this:
low percents: Dair>up B
little higher percents: Dair>Nair (wich is 3 consecutive hits, this is alot for brawl XD)
higher percents: Dair>Dair or Dair:Dsmash or Dair Utilt
high percents: Dair>Uair/Knee/Bair

but like face124 said, don't rely on them too much, just use one to punish from time to time
^
THE DAIR>DSMASH = ESCAPABLE
I'M NOT SURE ABOUT DAIR>UTILT AS EVEN IF YOUR OPPONENT AIRDODGES AFTER THE DAIR, THEY STILL GET HIT BY THE UTILT
MAYBE SOMEONE CAN ALSO TEST THIS TO CONFIRM THIS OR FIND A WAY TO ESCAPE THE UTILT AFTER THE DAIR
(TESTING WAS DONE ON A HUMAN PLAYER WHO WAS FOCUSING ON ESCAPING, WE TESTED IT MORE THAN ONCE)
MAYBE SOMEONE CAN ALSO CONFIRM IF THE DAIR>DSMASH IS REALLY ESCAPABLE
(LIKE A SECOND OPINION TO MAKE SURE)

 

[ShaolinAce]

Well I like Falcons Uair and bair. His forward b is a great spike along with dair. And he has one of the best non flying double jump hovering recoveries.

I think with more attention and more peoples use and an outstanding tounry scene. Captain Flacon can be up there. He just needs more priority but that can be helped with the right move at the right time imo.

 

[Wogrim]

I think we need to look more into ways to force and punish airdodges. UAir can make people airdodge a lot because it's hard to beat it, but they often end up safe. I've been thinking we need to maybe do it low to the ground so that we cancel it fast (SH FF)and can Smash them as they come out of the airdodge. Sort of a tactic I've been thinking about.

 

[Roager]

Wogrim's right. Bait and punish airdodges. I think the best way is either his plan (SHFF to smash) or something easier for the air. uair dair? I dunno. Something.

 

[Tenki]

running at people makes them airdodge.

really.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I think we need to look more into ways to force and punish airdodges. UAir can make people airdodge a lot because it's hard to beat it, but they often end up safe. I've been thinking we need to maybe do it low to the ground so that we cancel it fast (SH FF)and can Smash them as they come out of the airdodge. Sort of a tactic I've been thinking about.

empty sh, they airdodge, you knee afterwards... ok, so knee is way hard to land after an airdodge but it can be done.

 

[Tenki]

empty sh, they airdodge, you knee afterwards... ok, so knee is way hard to land after an airdodge but it can be done.

This is true ;l

You don't HAVE to attack to force people to airdodge.

 

[HiddenBowser]

This is true ;l

You don't HAVE to attack to force people to airdodge.

If you guys aren't using empty sh's, then ****ing use them. They're so ****ing good.

 

[Irae]

I think d-air to U-Smash is a combo at around 45-50 percent. I was playing in lightning mode at the time, so I'm not sure, but it was sweet.

Dair-usmash-weak knee-Electric knee. In lightning mode. It was almost like Melee. And sex.


It was epic.

 

[Zeallyx]

If you guys aren't using empty sh's, then ****ing use them. They're so ****ing good.

this
and also if you blend in Uthrow>up b into your game and you connect with it once, you can sure get a free airdodge to punish next time you Uthrow

 

[Tenki]

Oh god, U-throw> airdodge-bait > Falcon Punch?

 

[HiddenBowser]

And sex.

You've never had sex.

this
and also if you blend in Uthrow>up b into your game and you connect with it once, you can sure get a free airdodge to punish next time you Uthrow

you can see an up b coming for a long *** time. The only way it's going to connect is if you predict an airdodge and wait for it to almost be over.

Oh god, U-throw> airdodge-bait > Falcon Punch?

umm... no.

 

[Wogrim]

empty sh, they airdodge, you knee afterwards... ok, so knee is way hard to land after an airdodge but it can be done.

This is true ;l

You don't HAVE to attack to force people to airdodge.

I've tried that, but

a) my opponents will often not airdodge unless I literally attack

and

b) after an airdodge with them DIing I'm often not in position to hit them with an aerial, let alone KoJ.

The purpose of my suggestion was to try to find a way to guarantee a hit with either the UAir or the smash (unless they can beat the UAir), not to mindgame them. Mindgames count very little in tier discussion, but if we can guarantee hits it will help our juggling game a lot.

 

[HiddenBowser]

I've tried that, but

a) my opponents will often not airdodge unless I literally attack

and

b) after an airdodge with them DIing I'm often not in position to hit them with an aerial, let alone KoJ.

The purpose of my suggestion was to try to find a way to guarantee a hit with either the UAir or the smash (unless they can beat the UAir), not to mindgame them. Mindgames count very little in tier discussion, but if we can guarantee hits it will help our juggling game a lot.

I misspoke earlier when I said empty sh > force airdodge > aerial because that's not practical because you would land on the ground and can't do an aerial there.

But there is a similar trick you can do with sh's and with forced airdodges.

First the sh one. Do an empty sh and put yourself in the position that you are falling at a similar rate just below them so that if you do a uair or something it will hit them and they won't have enough time to react to it so hopefully they expect you to do an attack and airdodge to avoid it, and then you can land on the ground and then up smash or f smash or grab or whatever you want because they're going to have out of airdodge lag and landing lag.

The full hop one is pretty similar. You full hop and put yourself in the same position so that you're falling at the same rate as them just below them and if they expect an attack they will airdodge, when they do, I usually ff and then double jump back at them and hit them with an uair or bair. The knee is definitely preferred in this situation but is incredibly difficult to land so I generally play it safe and uair them off the stage to edge guard or something like that, but I'm definitely working on the timing for punishing airdodges with knees and everyone else should too.

Like this whole game is about conditioning your opponents to do certain things and then countering what they're going to do. It's just a huge game of who is better at conditioning, predicting, and knowing when to switch things up. Like for instance, condition them to react a certain way after you throw them, then when you know what they're going to do, react slightly different and sneak a knee in there.

 

[Irae]

You've never had sex.

God****it.


Well, it was awesome, anyway.

 

[HiddenBowser]

haha, word

 

[Zeallyx]

what about: (at higher percents)
Dash attack>empty short hop towards opponent>Usmash

 

[HiddenBowser]

Dash attack>empty short hop towards opponent>Usmash

I'm not sure if you're going to be able to follow me, but you're thinking about this **** a little wrong. In melee combos were all straight out, like you could write down combos and stuff. In brawl, there are some true combos but not many and when its not a true combo you shouldn't really write them out like that because you can't force things when the DI or conditioning isn't right. Like you should know that dash attack pops them up and then you should think of your possible options after they're up there but you writing it in combo form will probably lead to bad habits. You should instead write this something like this (there's probably a better way to write my way, but I'm trying to make a point):

possible ways to get your opponent in the air: dash attack
possible options when your opponent is just above sh height close to above you: empty sh > whatever

What I just wrote is kinda long and doesn't look to pretty but that's how you should be thinking about this stuff, which is different than what you said.

 

[Zeallyx]

I'm not sure if you're going to be able to follow me, but you're thinking about this **** a little wrong. In melee combos were all straight out, like you could write down combos and stuff. In brawl, there are some true combos but not many and when its not a true combo you shouldn't really write them out like that because you can't force things when the DI or conditioning isn't right. Like you should know that dash attack pops them up and then you should think of your possible options after they're up there but you writing it in combo form will probably lead to bad habits. You should instead write this something like this (there's probably a better way to write my way, but I'm trying to make a point):

possible ways to get your opponent in the air: dash attack
possible options when your opponent is just above sh height close to above you: empty sh > whatever

What I just wrote is kinda long and doesn't look to pretty but that's how you should be thinking about this stuff, which is different than what you said.

ehm I know that, but I was trying to keep it short :/

 

[HiddenBowser]

ehm I know that, but I was trying to keep it short :/

Are you ****ing stupid? No you didn't. If you knew you wouldn't ****ing have said it ****er. Every time I say a **** word, you're like, "you're wrong, we're all really good here". God **** you're dumb. And what the ****, you gay or something. Everytime I say something it's ehm or umm. wtf kid. learn to play the ****ing game before you start being cocky for the whole C. Falcon boards and gtfo.

 

[Wogrim]

Ehm relax it's just words.... Everyone knows it's not a combo, just something that might work out if the opponent reacts as planned. In my experience though, opponents will use their second jump more often than airdodge.

 

[Tenki]

Like you should know that dash attack pops them up and then you should think of your possible options after they're up there but you writing it in combo form will probably lead to bad habits. You should instead write this something like this (there's probably a better way to write my way, but I'm trying to make a point):

possible ways to get your opponent in the air: dash attack
possible options when your opponent is just above sh height close to above you: empty sh > whatever

What I just wrote is kinda long and doesn't look to pretty but that's how you should be thinking about this stuff, which is different than what you said.

I don't know what you think of this format, but I usually write things out while taking into account a certain opponent reaction.

Like the one I suggested for fun earlier:
[U-throw] > (opponent airdodge) > Falcon Punch
which, btw wouldn't really work unless your opponent was falling as he was airdodging or at a really low, non-killing %.

The actual movestring isn't important, but maybe that format of [your move] > (opponent reaction to bait) > [your followup].

either way, this thread is starting to look more like this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191797

XD I don't main Falcon so I cbf'd to make something like that here, but yeah, using limiting moves and figuring out followups are cool.

Are you ****ing stupid? No you didn't. If you knew you wouldn't ****ing have said it ****er. Every time I say a **** word, you're like, "you're wrong, we're all really good here". God **** you're dumb. And what the ****, you gay or something. Everytime I say something it's ehm or umm. wtf kid. learn to play the ****ing game before you start being cocky for the whole C. Falcon boards and gtfo.

We need some of this in the Sonic boards again (see first link in my sig for details)

;__;

 

[BrawlLover]

i am working on my falcon but it's so hard to connect some moves, my hands are slow btw, figures....

 

[Zeallyx]

Are you ****ing stupid? No you didn't. If you knew you wouldn't ****ing have said it ****er. Every time I say a **** word, you're like, "you're wrong, we're all really good here". God **** you're dumb. And what the ****, you gay or something. Everytime I say something it's ehm or umm. wtf kid. learn to play the ****ing game before you start being cocky for the whole C. Falcon boards and gtfo.

relax dude
I'm not beeing cocky
and I'm not speaking for all the falcon board wth are you talking about
and why try to insult me, that's pointless

 

[BrawlLover]

yeah cut the namecalling out buddy!

 

[HiddenBowser]

and why try to insult me, that's pointless

Cause it's fun

yeah cut the namecalling out buddy!

I'm not your buddy, guy!

 

[Majora_younglink]

I'm not your buddy, guy!

He's not your guy, friend!