The official captain falcon's potential discussion thread

[Zeallyx]

I hear/read alot of different opinions about captain falcon's potential..
As we all know captain falcon is far from the best character and as it stands now, he is were he unfortunatly seems to belong: 'bottom tier'
It's still the question if he'll stay bottom of bottom though..so:
What do you think about falcon's potential?
It may seem like he doesn't have any, and maybe this is the thing you think, but what troubles me is that 'a metagame' can go so deep, that it is possible for a falcon main to beat the better meta knights. With mindgames and perfectly executed punishes, wich is one of falcon's few good aspects (knee punish = win) there has to be a way to get better overal results as a falcon main.
I know it is hard, as the fact is falcon is a bad character, but I think that with skill, patience, practice and offcourse a little bit of luck, we, the falcon mains, will one day be a force to be reconned with.
So IMO falcon's true potential isn't reached yet, IMO falcon has potential to become better..
it's just up to us..

Your opinion about this?

 

[Sesshomuronay]

IMO falcon has the potential to become maybe the 2nd or 3rd worst instead of the worst in the game.

 

[__V]

He has such an obvious advantage that nobody uses. His SPEED. Falcon doesn't even need that much priority. Hell - Sonic has less priority and you don't see them whining....much.

With Sonic, dashing triples the size of his hurtboxes (making him easier to hit). Falcon's stay the same size, only the angle changes.

I dunno. Maybe we should stop running into the **** and looking for combos that CF obviously doesn't have?

 

[Zeallyx]

He has such an obvious advantage that nobody uses. His SPEED. Falcon doesn't even need that much priority. Hell - Sonic has less priority and you don't see them whining....much.

With Sonic, dashing triples the size of his hurtboxes (making him easier to hit). Falcon's stay the same size, only the angle changes.

I dunno. Maybe we should stop running into the **** and looking for combos that CF obviously doesn't have?

yes, my point exactly
we should all try to become really defensive (props for the people already playing like this)
falcon is all about punishing in my eyes, and we shoudl only apply strings when they clearly don't see it coming..wich is rare
I try to stay defensive myself, especially against olimar, but most of the time I end up trying to string and get punished.
In short: a defensive playstyle seems the best in my eyes, lure out attacks and punish. and when you punish sometimes try to pull out a string of moves, when they don't expect it.
Mindgames FTW

 

[Tenki]

He has such an obvious advantage that nobody uses. His SPEED. Falcon doesn't even need that much priority. Hell - Sonic has less priority and you don't see them whining....much.

With Sonic, dashing triples the size of his hurtboxes (making him easier to hit). Falcon's stay the same size, only the angle changes.

I dunno. Maybe we should stop running into the **** and looking for combos that CF obviously doesn't have?

wtf?! O_o;

Unless you mean horizontally. But he's moving fast so his horizontal hitbox doesn't really matter cause he can just shield stuff while he's running lol..
---------------

Honestly, I'm trying to push for this 'movement' on the Sonic boards to quit trying to revolutionize the character with some discovery of some sort, because it's futile to try to discover a new Sonic AT/technique usage when I'm around, and also because we need better players to represent Sonic.

I mean, what good is it to be the 'best Sonic' if your player ability overall sucks?

You guys should really look into Falcon's grab and post-airdodge game.

Like, look at this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191797

I don't know if you've ever seen Ally's Falcon played, but he reads defensive moves (shield, spotdodge, airdodge) reaally well. The nature of mindgames is to limit your opponent's choices where, if they do the wrong choice, they land into your trap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOv-sBtBig

It can be as crazy as that first kill.

Mindgames are player-based, indeed, but certain characters have people doing certain defensive reactions alot more. Like if Sonic runs at you, you're probably going to roll towards him. If Ike is running at you, you're probably going to spotdodge. If Falcon runs at you, you're probably going to shield, since his 'dash attack is unsafe on shield'.

Take advantage of those defensive reactions. People KNOW Falcon is unsafe on shield, and they'll play according to that. People KNOW it sucks to get hit by Falcon's U-air, so they'll do something to avoid it.

Make a push to be better players?

I tend to play aggro, and it's funny because people say to camp Sonic's approaches, when in reality, I have a very "camp-in-your-face" playstyle that takes advantage of their defensive reactions. It's almost like a game of chess in a sense, where you make 'invisible attacks' at people so if they take the bait, you punish them for it.

 

[Ville]

Falcon is mostly about precision I'd say.
Many of his moves are kinda weird to hit (knee, nair, dair) because of somewhat strange hitboxes, dunno if I'm the only one feeling like this.
I've been trying to use several attacks of Falcon more frequently than others for some load of games, so I get some feeling for it.
After tons of games where I focused on different attacks at each, I just tried to find somehow a balance for all those moves.

Falcon has no really "safe" move except may his Uair, if you compare him to something like marth or so, who can nearly always attack with Fair or Nair without being afraid of punishment, you should understand that it's not attackspamming or doing "combos", that lead to victory.

 

[Tenki]

Empty jump at someone > grab?
Falling N-air behind someone's shield > grab?

 

[Zeallyx]

Empty jump at someone > grab?
Falling N-air behind someone's shield > grab?

good idea, but an empty jump at someone is really risky, because msot players will know their characters air attack will most likely out prioritize falcon's, so it's risky

Nair behind someone's shield to grab seems like a good idea to me :D

what about Uair someone in the air>Bair/Nair/Uair/Knee/grab punish their airdodge (or just hit them with the first Uair offcourse :D)

 

[Tenki]

good idea, but an empty jump at someone is really risky, because msot players will know their characters air attack will most likely out prioritize falcon's, so it's risky

Nair behind someone's shield to grab seems like a good idea to me :D

what about Uair someone in the air>Bair/Nair/Uair/Knee/grab punish their airdodge (or just hit them with the first Uair offcourse :D)

1) Well, I don't play Falcon nearly as much as I do Sonic so I can't say too much about common reactions, but if you know they're going to attack, then you can do a falling airdodge, can't you?

@ U-air example, that's exactly what I mean.

After you hit someone with U-air, their options become limited to:
- attacking back
- airdodging
- double jumping

If they attack back, they're probably falling forwards with DI, so you can counter that by retreating after the U-air and punishing.

If they airdodge, they're probably carrying the momentum from the first U-air, so you can land and punish their landing with dash attack or dashgrab

If they double jump, then you have them limited again as they're falling. If they're falling, they're limited to:
- attacking back
- airdodging

etc.

They're also falling faster out of a double jump, so they'll have landing lag to exploit.

See what I'm getting at?

Limiting opponent options and finding 'the best' answers to them.

Tend to note that good players will usually do whatever it takes to get out of juggles, so they'll usually take the airdodge route immediately after an attack. It's crazy stuff.

 

[Zeallyx]

1) Well, I don't play Falcon nearly as much as I do Sonic so I can't say too much about common reactions, but if you know they're going to attack, then you can do a falling airdodge, can't you?

@ U-air example, that's exactly what I mean.

After you hit someone with U-air, their options become limited to:
- attacking back
- airdodging
- double jumping

If they attack back, they're probably falling forwards with DI, so you can counter that by retreating after the U-air and punishing.

If they airdodge, they're probably carrying the momentum from the first U-air, so you can land and punish their landing with dash attack or dashgrab

If they double jump, then you have them limited again as they're falling. If they're falling, they're limited to:
- attacking back
- airdodging

etc.

They're also falling faster out of a double jump, so they'll have landing lag to exploit.

See what I'm getting at?

Limiting opponent options and finding 'the best' answers to them.

Tend to note that good players will usually do whatever it takes to get out of juggles, so they'll usually take the airdodge route immediately after an attack. It's crazy stuff.

yes, it's all about readind the oponent and punishing/countering everything they do

so if you know they'll 'take the airdodge route' immediatly, we can punish that mirite :D

 

[Tenki]

Yes.

In a sense, the person approaching/being aggressive still has some sort of 'control' over the opponent.

I honestly think that if something big comes up in Sonic/Falcon's repertoire, it'll pop up in a string of baits and punishments. None of these will ever affect matchup discussions, but they'll affect your gameplay.

 

[Zeallyx]

Yes.

In a sense, the person approaching/being aggressive still has some sort of 'control' over the opponent.

I honestly think that if something big comes up in Sonic/Falcon's repertoire, it'll pop up in a string of baits and punishments. None of these will ever affect matchup discussions, but they'll affect your gameplay.

yes, exactly
and this is what is potential in my eyes XD

and one more thing, tenki wanna brawl sometime next week?
my fc: 3050-9951-8920

 

[Tenki]

I only play on weekends.

 

[Zeallyx]

I only play on weekends.

wanna brawl next weekend then..?

 

[Tenki]

Why not this one?

and yeah, I'll be online some time.

Usually late at night, but I'm East coast.

 

[Zeallyx]

Why not this one?

and yeah, I'll be online some time.

Usually late at night, but I'm East coast.

yeah sorry, I mean this weekend :D
I'm up late at night to, so that's no problem

I'll add you tommorrow night

 

[Bowser King]

I think falcon could possibly be 2nd or third worst but nothing better then that.

-Bowser King

 

[Noodlehead]

I think falcon could possibly be 2nd or third worst but nothing better then that.

-Bowser King

me too,unless we discover cgs, jab locks, and something else rediculous

 

[Ref]

Up B out of shield. Works for me. Try it see how it is.

It has a grab hit box so if they shield they still get hit.

 

[Ace55]

Up B out of shield. Works for me. Try it see how it is.

It has a grab hit box so if they shield they still get hit.

And if they spotdodge you make a very manly jump, and then probably get hit.

And what's up with the Wario symbol Tenki? You left the blue guy.

 

[Ref]

They'll pause due to the manly jump and wait until you are able to jab atleast before trying to hit you.

Nah just use it right and it's all good.

 

[Tenki]

up-B OoS is kinda weak.

Try using it to punish SH aerials. I think most of the time, the 'teleport frames' should net you grabs right through their attacks.

 

[HiddenBowser]

If you aren't playing people at top level play, then sure, whatever, it's not that hard to **** a MK, but at top level play, certain matchups get nearly impossible. Like, even with great mindgames, like even if you can semi reliably read your opponents well enough to string together 30%-50% combos, you still have a major up hill battle. It's rough, but whatever, get over it.

 

[__V]

Captain Falcon has a severe disadvantage against characters with multiple-hit attacks. However, he has an advantage over pretty much every other heavyweight. (No, not Dedede and Snake.)

 

[Zeallyx]

If you aren't playing people at top level play, then sure, whatever, it's not that hard to **** a MK, but at top level play, certain matchups get nearly impossible. Like, even with great mindgames, like even if you can semi reliably read your opponents well enough to string together 30%-50% combos, you still have a major up hill battle. It's rough, but whatever, get over it.

ehm we know this
and you know we know this
so you are a troll mirite?
well w/e, because captain falcon is bad doesn't mean he is unmainable
so I guess you main meta knight right?

so bowyer, I herd u liek T1eRsz

 

[Ayaz18]

never mind Bowyer, he posts too much B.S without backing it up

Falcon is purely based on the player, simple as that he has no advantages only disadvantages

 

[HiddenBowser]

ehm we know this
and you know we know this
so you are a troll mirite?
well w/e, because captain falcon is bad doesn't mean he is unmainable
so I guess you main meta knight right?

so bowyer, I herd u liek T1eRsz

wtf?... I'm not trolling right now... looking at this post, I'm not really sure why I said it... I'm pretty **** sure I was responding to something, but now that I think of it, it could have been a response to something in another thread... oh well.

and I'm saying C. Falcon is unmainable at a competitive level.

Why would you assume I play MK and who said I like tiers, lol. If a tournament happened right now I would play C. Falcon... mainly cause I don't care about winning. But I also have the best Jiggs out there (which is also a low tier character)... well I stopped playing Jiggs so someone could have passed me I guess, but w/e, I've been considered the best for most of brawl.

never mind Bowyer, he posts too much B.S without backing it up

Falcon is purely based on the player, simple as that he has no advantages only disadvantages

I might troll often, but I ****ing know what I'm talking about. Most of my trolling posts have smart things in them... You seem to be one of the people who just get pissed that I'm bashing someone and doesn't care to read about what I'm actually saying. I'm sorry you're butthurt But in all seriousness, if you listen to most of my posts, you'll get better.

 

[HiddenBowser]

ehm we know this
and you know we know this

also, scrubs are stupid

 

[Zeallyx]

also, scrubs are stupid

calling me a scrub?

 

[Ayaz18]

I might troll often, but I ****ing know what I'm talking about. Most of my trolling posts have smart things in them... You seem to be one of the people who just get pissed that I'm bashing someone and doesn't care to read about what I'm actually saying. I'm sorry you're butthurt But in all seriousness, if you listen to most of my posts, you'll get better.

when I read I don't look at how "colorful" opinions are but how they are expressed, for you many of your posts seem not really trolling but rather upsetting the community for reasons that should be further explained.

basically your a weaker version of Sliq

speaks the truth but does it in a redundant way

 

[HiddenBowser]

calling me a scrub?

I wasn't but it's really looking like you are. I have a history of tearing apart character boards, but I wasn't going to do that to the C. Falcon boards, but posts like that are making me change my mind.

when I read I don't look at how "colorful" opinions are but how they are expressed, for you many of your posts seem not really trolling but rather upsetting the community for reasons that should be further explained.

basically your a weaker version of Sliq

speaks the truth but does it in a redundant way

you're saying I upset the community but not in a trolling way? Are you saying that I know what I'm talking about but I post in a douche bag way? Because I'm cool with that, lol.

a weaker version of sliq? ouch, I've never been compared to him like that before.

 

[RyN]

Lots of drama on the C. Falcon boards but then again I guess this is the only way for the C. Falcon boards to stay active.

 

[8AngeL8]

^Lulz

10lulz

 

[Ayaz18]

you're saying I upset the community but not in a trolling way? Are you saying that I know what I'm talking about but I post in a douche bag way? Because I'm cool with that, lol.

a weaker version of sliq? ouch, I've never been compared to him like that before.

exactly, which I find amusing cause you know ......sliq owns

 

[Psychoace]

What were we talking about again?

 

[Zeallyx]

I wasn't but it's really looking like you are. I have a history of tearing apart character boards, but I wasn't going to do that to the C. Falcon boards, but posts like that are making me change my mind.



you're saying I upset the community but not in a trolling way? Are you saying that I know what I'm talking about but I post in a douche bag way? Because I'm cool with that, lol.

a weaker version of sliq? ouch, I've never been compared to him like that before.

oh ok..
I stand by my point that you're just a troll man
OMGZZ BoYweRZz AfTer ThE FalCoN BoARdZz !1!!1
I'm not sure if you really are the kind of poster you make yourself to be, but as it stands now you just seem a bitter poster

anyway, if I looks like I'm a scrub, well you're wrong and you aren't showing the knowledge you say you have either

and how did you end up talking about your jigglypuff :/

well w/e, there are, and always will be captain falcon mainers, get over it

 

[Pengy]

super late i know, but hell i just got on for funzies, i hardly ever get on anymore, but i play against my friend a lot, and he mains mario, yet i beat him 9/10 times and he is hella good with him, he just won a local tournament a week back, and i am VERY offensive against him, does captain falcon have some obvious advantage against mario that i am not noticing or am i just hella good?

 

[Lionman]

Only one thing about Falcon Boards

Stop crying and get skill with Falcon, then you can cry

Im happy with Falcon because is a real challenge

 

[peeeetah]

Im happy with Falcon because is a real challenge

totally agree. it's hard to win, but the satisfaction you get from beating someone with the falcon is just more rewarding than beating someone with a "better" character.

 

[HiddenBowser]

oh ok..
I stand by my point that you're just a troll man
OMGZZ BoYweRZz AfTer ThE FalCoN BoARdZz !1!!1
I'm not sure if you really are the kind of poster you make yourself to be, but as it stands now you just seem a bitter poster

anyway, if I looks like I'm a scrub, well you're wrong and you aren't showing the knowledge you say you have either

and how did you end up talking about your jigglypuff :/

well w/e, there are, and always will be captain falcon mainers, get over it

I talked about my Jiggs because you or someone said I was a tier *****.

Are you trolling me?