The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[deepseadiva]

What does Luigi do on the ground? Besides maybe some spinning and jabbing.

 

[<π]

grounded upB usmash and upangled Fsmash. I use ftilt sometimes

but I mostly bair and dair. luigi kills in the sheild slide department. I love it. fire ball to cover you landing sexiness.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Luigi is fun to watch, which is worth something.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Luigi is fun to watch, which is worth something.

"fun to watch"

That's the best criteria for tier list ranking I've ever seen. Give this man a medal!

 

[-LzR-]

Indeed... That post was 100% about why Luigi should rise in the tiers. That is taking things seriously, way too seriously...

 

[hotgarbage]

Luigi is fun to watch, which is worth something.

When someone isn't trying to camp the piss out of him yeah. (which actually doesn't seem to happen as much as it should...)

Spoiler

zss 4 most fun~

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nah man, jiggles is the funnest character to play as

 

[Browny]

Talking about funnest character to watch, not play as...

In which case for me at least, it is highly player dependant (also who they are against, m2k vs gnes case in point lol).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm pretty fun to watch. :x

People think of me as a gimmick as a result, though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think I have to say that I don't think being "fun to watch" is criteria for a tier list rise...

 

[volume]

so low range low traction and low speed (over all) keep him where he is leave it at that luigi makes up for his speed with attack speed and his range for power and traction for.... recovery?? lol anyways luigi is like a wood cannon not glass but wood lol

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In that he'll give you the **** if you don't deal with him appropriately?

 

[volume]

In that he'll give you the **** if you don't deal with him appropriately?

thats how it goes.

 

[<π]

sheik make brawl look like melee... when i play.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I'm kinda fun to watch.

 

[dainbramage]

Luigi's clearly a teflon cannon.

 

[Justblaze647]

Is this thread done blowing masturbating to trolling discussing Luigi yet?

 

[Karcist]

Who has worse range than Luigi?

Fox and Jigglypuff. Although I think Fox is a better character than Luigi.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Is Sheik still bad? I'm kinda hoping some people still think she's good in some way.

 

[JNB328522]

Fox doesnt have a worser range does he? I mean I manage to space pretty well with AC Fair and Bair through my experiences and foward smash has good range as well but feel its underused because of our upsmash

 

[Conviction]

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAA, hold on there. Never Fsmash as Fox unless you are sure it's gonna hit. If ever it might be used 1 or 2 times in a match.

Use it to punish on a laggy move...but we have a lot better options to punish anyways.

 

[Ripple]

Fox and Jigglypuff. Although I think Fox is a better character than Luigi.

you've got to be kidding me. fox is a terrible character. his death match ups with pika, sheik, ZSS, and ICs do not make up for how well he does in his other match ups with the high tiers.

the fact that no one takes advantage of this counter picking gives the illusion that fox is a good character when he is not.

luigi has 2 maybe 3 "bad" match ups. the worst being marth who does not super hard counter him like fox's counters. Luigi is a much better character than fox over all.

 

[Chuee]

you've got to be kidding me. fox is a terrible character. his death match ups with pika, sheik, ZSS, and ICs do not make up for how well he does in his other match ups with the high tiers.

Fox v ZSS is even LOL

 

[Pikabunz]

Those MUs aren't that terrible for Fox.

 

[Magik0722]

Fox v ZSS is even LOL

I'm pretty sure its still even in foxs favor

 

[Conviction]

!

you've got to be kidding me. fox is a terrible character. his death match ups with pika, sheik, ZSS, and ICs do not make up for how well he does in his other match ups with the high tiers.

the fact that no one takes advantage of this counter picking gives the illusion that fox is a good character when he is not.

luigi has 2 maybe 3 "bad" match ups. the worst being marth who does not super hard counter him like fox's counters. Luigi is a much better character than fox over all.

Time to wake up from Hypersleep, I haven't heard "LOLZ ZSS ***** FOX" since '09. 60-40 Fox's adv.

P.S. I haven't heard "LOLZ JUST CHOOSE PIKA, *insert character with lock on Fox* AND YOU AUTO-WINZ!"

I earnestly hope this was a joke.

 

[BSP]

luigi has 2 maybe 3 "bad" match ups. the worst being marth who does not super hard counter him like fox's counters. Luigi is a much better character than fox over all.

MK is just as bad, if not worse for Luigi. I think he's worse.

 

[Mariofan12]

Zelda should have never been moved to the bottom tier (G). Her Din's Fire now has better hitbox size, and she no longer has the slowest dash speed, as she did in melee. Her Din's fire gives out more damage now and is faster.

 

[Ishiey]

Question about Fox's MUs. I know about the ZSS one not being lol as people used to think, but what makes Pika/Sheik/ICs tolerable for Fox? Can Fox really avoid the grab/tilt that well, and if so, how?

 

[Conviction]

Question about Fox's MUs. I know about the ZSS one not being lol as people used to think, but what makes Pika/Sheik/ICs tolerable for Fox? Can Fox really avoid the grab/tilt that well, and if so, how?

ICs are the biggest pain...we actually don't have any method of dealing with them but hoping you pull a Zeton. I have something I'm working on for the ICs with my local IC main but I haven't been to a tourney in month.

Pika - Space around pika's horrible grab range and/or eat t-jolts until out of CG range then it becomes more of an even MU. Still 60/40 Pika though.

Shiek - I'm not gonna try and theorycraft this one. I don't have any Sheik mains to play unless Elev8 or Reflex want to help me with this MU.

 

[phi1ny3]

SDI iirc is irrelevant to Sheik's ftilt lock, otherwise it would've been broken out of a loooooong time ago

it is however, relevant to the kill move afterward (although still irrelevant for fox because even SDI'ing into the second hit still = death b/c of the percent he gets tilt locked, but it stops falco for example from becoming a potential 30-deathish MU)

 

[AvaricePanda]

I don't know about Sheik. TBH I can't imagine why Pika vs. Fox isn't really bad because it seems like outside of the CG Pika would have an advantage anyway, and obviously with the CG it's even worse. Ice Climbers, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Fox doesn't have that many tools to avoid a grab. Full hop N-air is safe but you can't do much with it. SH F-air works against tall characters because you can just DI back during it, but Pika and ICs aren't tall. Same with auto-cancelled SH B-air, would be good against like DDD but IIRC it can't hit Pika and ICs and still be autocancelled, and even if it could it's pretty easily telegraphed.

 

[phi1ny3]

yeah ICs are pretty nasty looking for fox

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Fox-ZSS is in Fox's favor.

I don't think Fox-Pikachu is that bad; bad, but not unwinnable (think Marth-MK). Sheik is a terrible match-up for Fox (ftilt is really easy to land unfortunately), but Sheik isn't exactly a presence and just switching to Sheik when you play against a Fox isn't going to win you the game, you have to know how to play her. Fox's biggest problem is probably ICs, practically speaking... there are at least a few good ICs players in each region.

With that said I do think Fox is a really good character that suffers from a few unfortunate mechanical problems.

 

[hichez50]

Fox Pika really isn't that bad. I have seen numerous fox player avoid grabs against expired pikachu players. Also don't you have to know how to play any charater supermodel

 

[phi1ny3]

Pika is probably the "easiest" horribad MU for fox (bad word for it, it's really, really hard, but I've seen enough upsets to think it's not a autolose, but a laaaaaaaarge gap in skill does need to be present lol), probably not 40:60 Pika but not like 20:80 either lol

Sheik requires that you get fox to 30%ish, but at the same time, super easy with her punishment/anti-aerial capability

ICs are just evil, Fox/Falco have a tendency to get grabbed a lot more easier than most other chars against ICs, mostly due to having nothing to deal with walls and setups effectively. Like sheik, ICs are also really good punish material obv.

imo Sheik and ICs are about the same level of difficulty for Fox

 

[Conviction]

The above post about sums it up. Even though you can DI and live through Shiek's lock.

 

[Chuee]

I don't think Fox-Pikachu is that bad; bad, but not unwinnable (think Marth-MK).

I can't tell what you mean by this, but Marth vs MK is not unwinnable, and Marth and MKs MU's against both Pika and Fox aren't unwinnable.

 

[hichez50]

Thanks mr. obvious. XD

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox is pretty good. Like B-Tier.

Wolf on the other hand is horrible and needs to drop into E-Tier by the time the next tier list is released