The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[Dr Peepee]

Nah I'm of the opinion that most people slightly overrate Falco(nothing personal I promise) and underrate Marth these days. Marth is the second best character in the game in my opinion, but most people don't think like me so I guess you could say that I'm a lot stranger than you haha.

I think Marth is one of the few characters that can pace Falco because of that psychological advantage that comes when Marth forces Falco to think very carefully about his choice of options. Couple that with Marth blatantly outranging Falco so that approaches become easier as Falco second-guesses himself and Marth controlling the stage/reversing the pressure/edgeguarding well and I see it as his advantage because of that initial psychological advantage that inherently comes with counters to Falco's approaches/options.

I'm of the opinion that no Marth really has found a way to successfully put everything/a lot more things together vs Falco yet, and when they do then Falcos will start struggling more to place in tournaments. Again, that may just cause you to believe I'm crazy, but I hope not.

 

[ZoSo]

It seems like every couple of years a new player comes along who redefines what it is to be good at this game, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that it will happen again.

Sometimes I think Marth is underrated and sometimes I think he really just can't win tourneys anymore. He sure is fun to play, though!

 

[Dr Peepee]

It seems like every couple of years a new player comes along who redefines what it is to be good at this game, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe that it will happen again.

Sometimes I think Marth is underrated and sometimes I think he really just can't win tourneys anymore. He sure is fun to play, though!

I'd really like to see that haha.

And yeah I looove playing Marth. Such a fun character.

Also you should play that **** Marth on me more next time we're in the same building haha. =)

 

[UrHeartzDzire]

awwwww i kinda have a rival ^_^

<3 u maria!!!

btw. this is prolly old as **** now...-_-

 

[ZoSo]

LOL I'm surprised you even remember playing me. Anyway, you destroyed my Marth as I recall, but I appreciate the compliment. We'll definitely play at ROM3 or whatever.

 

[TheLastCacely]

i dont get it.... pp didnt u already beat hbox with falco? just... do it again... like it's that simple when u think about it.

I'm just going to put this here again.

hopefully the few smasher that don't have emo mentalities will read between the lines.

 

[_Kadaj_]

You need to zone with other moves Kevin like bair and shine/up tilt pressure.

A lot of the time he's just grabbing you or hitting you for it, also try to laser a bit more to cotain and frustrate him so you have more openings..

Lastly semi charge an f smash on those missed rest, don't just grab or dair him, I know dair has it's follow ups but you didn't on any of them or you would just whiff a shine afterwards

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

lol@people telling Kevin how to play against hbox with Falco.

 

[DJRome]

i remember when i beat hbox with falco. that's when i knew how to play the matchup pretty well

o wait that was pp

 

[lord karn]

PP, when you empty shorthopped it worked well. Don't know if it would stop working if you used it more. But in general, adding in empty short hops makes your movement more unpredictable and might help you get in.

Also, you might want to think about how you can get him into a situation when you can just trade aerials with him. Don't necessarily just look for straight up hits, because it is still good to trade hits. First of all, it's jiggs and she dies easily. Secondly, jiggs' only attack that comes out quickly is rest, but she shouldn't be in position to rest if you just traded hits (you'll be a small distance apart because you hit each other). All of falco's moves would be much more useful in this situation and you could shine/utilt/whatever. Don't know how applicable this strat is.

As I said earlier, don't get so focused on shine killing on non yoshi's stages. You wasted a lot of percent going for that when it didn't hit.

 

[Lightsyde]

I actually watched that full set last night as well.

The added laser camping was working in a sense but for some reason I felt like flat out pressure was working just as well sometimes.

I agree with Alex about the empty short hopping and the shine kill stuff.

It seemed like you were randomly missing l-cancels or just not shining after aerials for whatever reason but it seemed like Hbox could have straight up shield grabbed you or punished you OOS a lot of times and he didn't. I guess that's conditioning but it just seemed weird seeing you miss L-cancels/fast falls.

Otherwise, I thought you played pretty brilliantly for the most part terribly, god why are you so bad.

 

[Dark Hart]

He did shield-grab Kevin a lot, almost as much as this match - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GkW__7kSwk&feature=related

 

[TheLastCacely]

yea kevin wtf? you normally dont get shield grabbed, but in that it was lookin like hbox was playing D3. Grabbing u out uh er tang.

 

[Lightsyde]

Exactly, Kevin was getting shield grabbed some (read: A LOT more than he should) but more importantly, there were about twice as many instances where he flat out missed L cancels or fast falls of Juan's shield and could have been shield grabbed, Usmashed OOS, rested OOS etc.

I will say Juan was doing a really great job WD'ing back or forward right before aerials and making it difficult to get the cancel timing right but still, Kevin's tech needed to be a lot tighter to win that set.

 

[Dr Peepee]

You need to zone with other moves Kevin like bair and shine/up tilt pressure.

A lot of the time he's just grabbing you or hitting you for it, also try to laser a bit more to cotain and frustrate him so you have more openings..

Lastly semi charge an f smash on those missed rest, don't just grab or dair him, I know dair has it's follow ups but you didn't on any of them or you would just whiff a shine afterwards

I can't just stick my leg out like that a lot or he can hit it. That's what some of the empty SH'ing I was doing was for: scaring him with Bair.

Lasers suck vs puff unless she's sitting on the ground.

I'm thinking that may be what I have to do because throw combos and Dair combos didn't work. Maybe I'll uptilt....

i remember when i beat hbox with falco. that's when i knew how to play the matchup pretty well

o wait that was pp

Very funny, we both know what changed.

PP, when you empty shorthopped it worked well. Don't know if it would stop working if you used it more. But in general, adding in empty short hops makes your movement more unpredictable and might help you get in.

Also, you might want to think about how you can get him into a situation when you can just trade aerials with him. Don't necessarily just look for straight up hits, because it is still good to trade hits. First of all, it's jiggs and she dies easily. Secondly, jiggs' only attack that comes out quickly is rest, but she shouldn't be in position to rest if you just traded hits (you'll be a small distance apart because you hit each other). All of falco's moves would be much more useful in this situation and you could shine/utilt/whatever. Don't know how applicable this strat is.

As I said earlier, don't get so focused on shine killing on non yoshi's stages. You wasted a lot of percent going for that when it didn't hit.

I wrote a looooong response to Jesiah last night about spamming that and it not working, but I'll see what I can do with it.

CC'ing works well for trading, but beyond that it's pretty tough if he's Bair'ing. I might try to trade with his Fairs/Nairs though, interesting.

Yeah I still don't know when it would kill but I guess I'll assume it never does anymore since Hbox got better DI.

I actually watched that full set last night as well.

The added laser camping was working in a sense but for some reason I felt like flat out pressure was working just as well sometimes.

I agree with Alex about the empty short hopping and the shine kill stuff.

It seemed like you were randomly missing l-cancels or just not shining after aerials for whatever reason but it seemed like Hbox could have straight up shield grabbed you or punished you OOS a lot of times and he didn't. I guess that's conditioning but it just seemed weird seeing you miss L-cancels/fast falls.

Otherwise, I thought you played pretty brilliantly for the most part terribly, god why are you so bad.

adslgkadbflgvknzd.svdf,vszzskd. @ first part. Now we have my dilemma that no one believes is an actual dilemma and I get called a theory bros johnner for.

That tech skill part I need to work on for sure.

Exactly, Kevin was getting shield grabbed some (read: A LOT more than he should) but more importantly, there were about twice as many instances where he flat out missed L cancels or fast falls of Juan's shield and could have been shield grabbed, Usmashed OOS, rested OOS etc.

I will say Juan was doing a really great job WD'ing back or forward right before aerials and making it difficult to get the cancel timing right but still, Kevin's tech needed to be a lot tighter to win that set.

The WD'ing definitely got me. It's a tactic I've only been really exposed to recently(via Twitch and Mike G) so I'm still in the baby stages of getting around it. I'll work on it.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

ZoSo are you gonna be at ROM? you played my training partner Mike at Mass Madness, and he said you **** so i wanna piece


me and pp are rivals. idc how good he is he's the one i want to beat.




kevin, seriously just dont attack. you died so much from attacking. and if you are going to attack his shield (which is something you need to do) you need to work a lot on incorporating safe options that he prob wont be ready for like double shine and shine grab. ***** after watching these matches all i can infer is: you got this.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Tried to shine grab and I FH'd every time. Scrub status.

And I'm not sure if not attacking works with Falco vs puff for reasons I'm better off not explaining but I'm revamping a lot of strategy so maybe that'll happen.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

obv i dont mean straight up DONT EVER BE OFFENSIVE.


at least just dont EVER think you can catch him off guard, sometimes you did and you died cuz of it. that's puff.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

****ing puff I swear

 

[Dr Peepee]

I see, well I'll try to keep that in mind as well.

It works occasionally though. =p

 

[Lightsyde]

Tried to shine grab and I FH'd every time. Scrub status.

And I'm not sure if not attacking works with Falco vs puff for reasons I'm better off not explaining but I'm revamping a lot of strategy so maybe that'll happen.

I meant to mention this as well actually but I did leave it for you in a jokingbutserious comment on your match with Colin.

Pleaseeeee practice your shine grabbing. It is TOO GOOD against Floaties, especially Peach. I am almost positive you would have beaten Armada if you had done it. All you need to do is aerial -> shine -> JC Grab (ie: X/Y + Z).

I don't know how to feel about most of Cam's post but it's definitely food for thought.

And Craig is right, I think a charged Fsmash is almost always going to be a better option than hoping for Dair/throw combos because they just weren't working. Though I do worry about Juan teching it and resting you somehow. hahahah

 

[Dr Peepee]

Busted Jesiah! <3

Oh and Josh, I know how to shine grab I simply was too tense or something during the set.

Also I like shield pressuring Peach a lot. Grabbing doesn't lead to too much vs her but maybe that's my inexperience talking.

Guess if he's ready to DI, then Dair combos might not work at lower percents. Well, he was teching them sooooo.....hmmm

 

[AlcyoNite]

who is ksk?

 

[Lightsyde]

Busted Jesiah! <3

Oh and Josh, I know how to shine grab I simply was too tense or something during the set.

Also I like shield pressuring Peach a lot. Grabbing doesn't lead to too much vs her but maybe that's my inexperience talking.

Guess if he's ready to DI, then Dair combos might not work at lower percents. Well, he was teching them sooooo.....hmmm

If you can't do it every single time when it matters then you still need to practice them, you know that.

Shield pressuring Peach doesn't work. Nair OOS works a lot, and UpB OOS works in almost all other instances. And actually, I think Falco's throw Fthrow/Bthrow/Uthrow mix up game can do a lot more than getting shield grabbed/hit OOS. I can elaborate on this if you want.

EDIT: Theo, KSK = Krackshot Kroc = Michael Abbaspour = Brawl/Melee player from Raleigh who goes to ECU.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Krackshot Kroc, he hangs out with Keith and Shady (and Bden at ECU) and them but he prefers Melee to Brawl last I heard.

Edit: Josh let's discuss this in person lol it'd be easier. XD

 

[Lightsyde]

Mmmk, I'll be happy to teach you Falco.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Food for thought

You know how Jiggs does that little squishy-motion in her jump animation before she leaves the ground? If Hbox expects the Shinegrab, he could probably time a jump so that the squish avoids the grab and then rest Kevin out of the lag from the grab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJIkk3dJ6P0

Points of reference = 0:20 and 0:22

Granted, I think those squish dodges in the video were unintentional on mango's part but it shows that they work if you can apply them.

Still, Shinegrabs are definitely the best option on shields rather than over extending yourself.

Also, I think spacey matchups with puff would revolve around constantly keeping her on her back and punishing her bad tech rolls. If you can land 2 dairs on her to ground her, I'm sure that you could react to her roll and punish it with another move.

But I dunno.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yes, you theoretically wanna Dair puff into the ground, but if everyone says don't approach with Dairs, and you're shine grabbing instead of Dair shining her shield, then when are you gonna Dair her?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Ummmmm Mixup the shield pressure?

Also, what could FThrow lead to on Puff? Fthrow/Dthrow mixups? If they don't expect the Dthrow, they may miss the tech and you do some kind of khdiujahfidlfjdsiofjfl stuff to them.

ummm... Sheildstab Dairs(lol does puff ever get sheildstabbed?)?

****, I'm spent. I dunno. I know nothing about falco.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ummmmm Mixup the shield pressure?

Also, what could FThrow lead to on Puff? Fthrow/Dthrow mixups? If they don't expect the Dthrow, they may miss the tech and you do some kind of khdiujahfidlfjdsiofjfl stuff to them.

ummm... Sheildstab Dairs(lol does puff ever get sheildstabbed?)?

****, I'm spent. I dunno. I know nothing about falco.

Mixing up shield pressure is the right answer, but there's only a weak level of effectiveness regardless(Dair'ing Hbox out of his WD OOS usually caused him to tech roll away or plop into the ground, kinda impossible to get the former and the latter I just suck and need to react to).

Fthrow leads to nothing as far as I know, Bthrow has a slightly better chance for that I think.

Dthrow can always be reacted to, it's too slow.

Puff can get shield stabbed but somehow it didn't happen to Hbox once in any of my matches with him....

 

[ZoSo]

702, I assume you're referring to $Mike.

Yeah, I'll probably be going to ROM.

 

[Dark Hart]

Michael's been my friend since we were in the 4th grade.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

702, I assume you're referring to $Mike.

Yeah, I'll probably be going to ROM.

MM me *****

 

[TheLastCacely]

Michael's been my friend since we were in the 4th grade.

I'm sorry lucas, but he's switched to the dark chocolate and middle eastern flavored cookies.

 

[ZoSo]

MM me *****

Nope.

I'll gladly play you, though.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

ight, cool with me *****

 

[Foxy]

when are we picking our panel for blackcops pr's

this is nc's third tourney game right

right

1v1 only

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

o.o




*dies*

 

[Dark Hart]

I swear, if I ever make it onto these I'm just gonna ask to be taken right off...

 

[DJRome]

don't worry