The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[Sneak8288]

Playin kevin makes me like the game... even tho I get ***** non lubricated by his falco.. I feel like I learn alot about decision making in the process

 

[~Twitch~]

Playin kevin makes me like the game... even tho I get ***** non lubricated by his falco.. I feel like I learn alot about decision making in the process

everyone who plays him says this but...i try to pay attention to what he's doing and i don't learn a thing.

 

[stingers]

its because you're not looking at the big picture twitch
you're not picking falco at the character select screen, you're gonna lose

 

[Divinokage]

Playin kevin makes me like the game... even tho I get ***** non lubricated by his falco.. I feel like I learn alot about decision making in the process

Last time I played him 12 times in a row, my fury woke up again and I wanted to beat him at all costs lol. Getting 3 stocked 12 times in a row even at my level, *sigh* lol.

 

[stingers]

lol wow even my ganon gets kevin down to 2 stocks...BE A WARRIOR KAGE

 

[Dark Hart]

I remember when Kevin beat Kage like 3 times in tourney at TO4

 

[Divinokage]

I remember losing to him at RoM 2 too.. I had my chances before.. I wonder if I can do it now. =)

 

[Moophobia]

There's no way now. You lost your chance.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Kevin would have to be hung over for you to beat him.

 

[Divinokage]

There's no way now. You lost your chance.

There's always a way.

 

[Moophobia]

Yeah wait until he retires and practice.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ganon really is his best matchup...

***in falco...

 

[Lightsyde]

Ganon kills Falco in 3/5 hits. Edgeguard him well (quick react to his fast options and **** him if he has to Up B). Lasers are dangerous as hell for Falco if you space correctly (take laser/jab or DJ Fair over them or UpB under them or Platform waveland over them).

The match up is just not that bad. Falco has to combo Ganon super hard or Falco loses in a hurry.

EDIT: If you just meant Kevin though...yeah, he does kinda tear up Ganon/Falcon's realllllly bad.

 

[Sneak8288]

Yea I think he was talking about the kevin vs ganon matchup which is basically 95 - 5

 

[Lightsyde]

Falcon's not quite THAT bad against him but yeah playing Ganon vs him is rough.

Man, I love playing Kevin. I need to do that again. From the point I get warmed up until my brain gets tired, he gets me playing my very best.

Feels like I should be wearing a lap coat with X-ray glasses.

EDIT: With a waterfall in the background.

EDIT: Blue and purple lightning overhead.

EDIT: Sitting at Pause and Play.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, ganon vs falco isn't too horrible.

ganon vs kevin is, as ryan states, something around 95-5. it's like peach dittos vs armada. the matchup isn't that bad, but you're simply not going to win it.

 

[SK919]

I believe played correctly, Falco ganon is 60-40.

Maybe worse. It's just a matter of understanding how the ganon is thinking. I believe that a lot of falcos might lose to ganon because they don't see how the ganon is punishing approaches. I feel that's all he has vs. falco.

Patient falco vs. ganon 60-40 or worse. Thus kevin nanney vs. ganon is impossible lol

 

[lord karn]

Yeah, the main thing is just abusing your aerials right, and not attacking into stupid situations. I also think Falco ***** ganon. My opinion might be different with really good powershielding. . . not sure.

 

[SK919]

Maybe, but a little bit of delay in your aerial and good timing mix up would be the answer to a good power shield game..

Unless your dealing with some amazing reactions.. I don't see how it would make a difference

 

[lord karn]

I don't really understand why people always say powershielding is not good. . . Do predictive PSing sparingly, do reactive PSing whenever you can. Just watch how many **** things Armada gets because of it. It's definitely good.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

*yawn* i don't really desire to discuss the falco ganon matchup. it's bad for a lot of reasons, many of which i'm working on, some of which i've come to accept. certain things help it, while other things simply don't matter.

 

[Sneak8288]

I just hate having to learn different timings for everything vs ganon lol. It messes with me when I turn on the auto pilot, but when actually thinking the matchup isn't too hard at all. You seriously don't have to approach ganon at all and have a gun. Ganon is pretty much terrible vs the bird

 

[Lightsyde]

It's really not that bad though. Top play means top reaction times/PS'ing should come natural. When I talk about match ups I assume we are talking about top level (not inhuman, just really good) reaction time. Use your OOS game better, punish bad lasers, and abuse Falco's speed (same run speed as you) and the fact that he has less strong long range (Falco has lasers, Fair him in the face for using them; Falco's Bair's is good but trading with any of Ganon's spaced aerials is TERRIBLE for Falco).

EDIT: Earl, stop encouraging that surrendering mindset.

 

[Moophobia]

But if it's high level play would he really have bad lasers(well obviously there will be some but it won't be that often)? and I normally see falcos run all over ganons except for maybe linguini.

 

[Lightsyde]

But if it's high level play would he really have bad lasers(well obviously there will be some but it won't be that often)? and I normally see falcos run all over ganons except for maybe linguini.

Exactly; Linguini has a really good anti laser game with Ganon. The character has all the tools to beat that and pretty much any other aspect of Falco. The match up is not that bad.

The thing is at high level play, the Ganon makes laser positions bad that were not bad when you initially did them. A lot of lasering is reaction; so is the anti-laser game. Anytime I fight Falco with any character, I'm always baiting lasers because, aside from his being offstage, that is when he is most vulnerable (can't hit you, CC, shield, and likely won't be DI'ing well if he was guiding the Falco's movement during the laser animation.)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

*yawn* just hit ganon when he lands. he can't do **** to you when grounded, so just get on a platform or something and hit him when he lands.

shoot a full retreating laser if he's coming at you. if that's a bad spacing, then run under him.

as i told cam, the matchup starts with ganon having a shield, and falco having lasers. the advantage in all situations is obvious.

 

[Sneak8288]

Yo josh, come to more stuff lol. We haven't played in forever

 

[lord karn]

Even though trading with Ganon's aerials is always bad, the are so slow that you can just punish his start up. If falco gets into the space that is near ganon but outside of jab range, Falco has a huge advantage.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

if falco's in jab range ganon should be in either stun or shield lol.

 

[Dark Hart]

Earl, stop encouraging that surrendering mindset.

loooooooooooooooooooool

 

[Lightsyde]

*yawn* just hit ganon when he lands. he can't do **** to you when grounded, so just get on a platform or something and hit him when he lands.

shoot a full retreating laser if he's coming at you. if that's a bad spacing, then run under him.

as i told cam, the matchup starts with ganon having a shield, and falco having lasers. the advantage in all situations is obvious.

Why would you land in a place or do a laggy move in such a way that you can be hit when you land? You should always be able to jab or shield if you are keeping your spacing today. Yes, I realize this is not easy but definitely not undoable.

What does shooting a retreating laser do for Falco getting in on Ganon though? It just surrenders ground for him to get back on his feet/back to neutral, which is where you do not want Ganon.

Ganon does have a shield and Falco has lasers, yes. Ganon also has a really good waveland game. Half of winning that match up is tricking the Falco into thinking he has a much bigger advantage than he does and punishing him. Also, CC does wonders vs the bird. You just gotta react.

Yo josh, come to more stuff lol. We haven't played in forever

I haven't been avoiding going to stuff, for the record! I've just been busy with other stuff (family/females/developing other hobbies more) and also trying to keep a bit of a tighter budget. I haven't played much in the last week, but the last session I had, I went just about even with Aasem over the course of 2 or 3 hours. I like playing him when there is no rotation and I can actually get to playing my very best so that I can keep from getting frustrated by Peach.

Anyway, yeah, I'd really like to play with you. It has been a good while.

Even though trading with Ganon's aerials is always bad, the are so slow that you can just punish his start up. If falco gets into the space that is near ganon but outside of jab range, Falco has a huge advantage.

Ftilt and Pivot Bair seem like good options for that spacing. Also, why couldn't Ganon just wavedash in (shield to OOS whatever or into Jab range for CC stuff)

if falco's in jab range ganon should be in either stun or shield lol.

This. Ganon can tear you a new one quick fast standing beside him.\

EDIT: Lucas: ;]

 

[stingers]

im coming to raleigh for a visit josh...we better see each other for a little bit 8]

 

[Dark Hart]

Winky face? I make fun of you and you give me a winky face?

 

[0Room]

This is kind of late
But I wanted to point out that Kevin's really good at not getting edgeguarded.

I feel like that's one of the numerous reasons why he's so good at top level
Considering most of the time these players are absolutely perfect at keeping people offstage [Armadaaaaa...]

Just wanted to point that out to see what you guys think about it

 

[SK919]

Kevin is good at not getting hit, and the moment a lot of people hit that guy they freak out and fail edge guards.

He knows how to delay his options too to throw people off. For the most part though it's the fact that the opportunity to edge gaurd PP's falco doesn't come that often and people tend to squander those clutch situations vs. him because it's so hard to acquire

 

[Dark Hart]

Options, opportunity, ability, patience, experience, and... an open mind

 

[lord karn]

Ftilt and Pivot Bair seem like good options for that spacing. Also, why couldn't Ganon just wavedash in (shield to OOS whatever or into Jab range for CC stuff)

Ftilt and pivot bair are both really slow to be pulling out when you are that close. Both of those would be moves to potentially punish falco as he is getting into that spacing, not when he is already there. You have to remember ganon has the second or third slowest jump in the game. Those extra frames it takes to get off the ground really do make a difference, especially combined with the fact that his aerials don't come out fast aside from uair. Ganon cannot punish much by reaction up close but outside of jab range.

Wavedash in and shield just gets ganon sitting in his shield, which just gives falco more time to do what he wants. Jump a little back and laser and then set up spacing for a good approach. Grab. Seems like there are a lot of options. Just don't mispace the aerials.

The real difficulty for falco in this matchup is not ****** ganon once he has gotten to that spacing, but instead getting there in the first place. Falco has a much narrower range for far away laser approach spacing, because of the jab. Ganon can take laser and jab a lot, so you have to make sure you approach from a very particular distance with a laser, even more so than other characters. This gives ganon more freedom of movement than people would initially think he has. Platforms are hard to deal with because ganon always ***** people above him. Abuse of the top platform, however, is important because ganon can barely reach it usually. All that being said, ganon is still slow and even with the jab and his other stuff falco still generally has an advantage on getting his hits, which factors into me thinking falco kinda ***** ganon.

The real real difficulty for most falcos is that they just mess up a lot. Ganon punishes really really really really hard. A few technical mistakes can make this matchup look a lot more even than it really is.


Summary:

-Falco ***** ganon just outside of jab range. Ganon's moves come out to slow and falco can pretty much just react to anything.
-Ganon has to avoid this situation. Jab beats a lot more laser spacings than other characters can, which combined with other movement tricks, open a lot of space control options for ganon.
-Unfortunately ganon is still a slow character with a very slow jump. Falco still has the advantage in stage control, he just has to know that he can't approach with lasers as easily.
-If falco doesn't mess up, this matchup is pretty heavily skewed in falco's favor.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

josh, I'll show you these things this weekend.

 

[Dark Hart]

Everyone come to Josh's tomorrow, we gonna party or **** or something

 

[stingers]

no not tomorrow...do it on like...wednesday 8]