BEES
Smash Lord
I'm in Chapel Hill now, but you would probably recognize me if you saw me.
Always up for friendlies... I don't get enough practice at tournaments.
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The new Roy Strategem discussion
- Thread starter Rain(ame)
- Start date
Always up for friendlies... I don't get enough practice at tournaments.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
I'm not the greatest Roy (obviously), but something that surprises me is how little I see SHFFL'd Dair.
Why?
Why?
Pi
Smash Hero
it's range is highly punishable (more so than fairs)
but i do use it quite a bit OoS, as a response to laggy attacks
also the lag time, even L canceled, is notable
Palpi
Smash Hero
Yeah the sweetspot for his dair is laughably small.
exarch
doot doot doot
Nah Rip, we're saying Roy's a better character, not commenting on the matchup.
Imo Zelda Roy is even, though.
When we say dair's sweetspot, are we talking about the spike or that weird forward sending hitbox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9lCW3klldU#t=3m51s
Because between the two of those, the sweetspot is completely managable. That hitbox is awesome though, it's got great stun time and as much knockback as Roy's other aerials. I remember doing stupid things to Marth with that.
Dair's tipper is insanely useful too though.
Imo Zelda Roy is even, though.
When we say dair's sweetspot, are we talking about the spike or that weird forward sending hitbox?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9lCW3klldU#t=3m51s
Because between the two of those, the sweetspot is completely managable. That hitbox is awesome though, it's got great stun time and as much knockback as Roy's other aerials. I remember doing stupid things to Marth with that.
Dair's tipper is insanely useful too though.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
All of dair's hitboxes are useful. There are 3 general spots to hit with on the dair i think:
1. Tipper- Useful when the other player is on the ground and not expecting a hitbox to reach far behind you. I believe it outranges the bair plus it can shield poke. It pops people up into fsmash or other attacks.
2. Center of the sword, no spike- pushes people away from you, or if done on the ground, pops people up similarly to the tipper. Useful more edgeguarding and comboing.
3. Arm pit spike- keeps people on the ground or (in very very rare cases) spike kills. the most reliable things with the spike are dtilt->dair tech chase and ledgehop dair. dtilt->dair is very useful if someone isn't expecting it. ledgehop dair can have several different effects including death. if the player is directly above you, ledgehop dair will send them straight down. if they are above the stage but not landed, dair will spike them into the stage. if they have landed and are in hitstun, the dair will pop them up for massive hitstun akin to falcon's dair.
i recommend using dair very sparingly in-combo, as one missed dair=death.
BEES
Smash Lord
Important stage question:
Dreamland 64
Kongo Jungle 64
both are butthole stages for Roy
which one should I ban?
Dreamland 64
Kongo Jungle 64
both are butthole stages for Roy
which one should I ban?
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Matchup dependent imo.
Characters that have good grab games vs you will prefer to fight you on DL over KJ.
So you probably want to ban Dreamland vs
Sheik
Falcon
Ice Climbers (obviously)
and Falco (lasers)
Marth (because he doesn't want to go to KJ anyway)
Samus
Luigi
Pikachu
DK
You should probably ban KJ vs
Peach
Puff (because her stage presence isn't hindered there but yours is)
Ganon
Vs Fox you probably should ban Cruise or KJ
Characters that have good grab games vs you will prefer to fight you on DL over KJ.
So you probably want to ban Dreamland vs
Sheik
Falcon
Ice Climbers (obviously)
and Falco (lasers)
Marth (because he doesn't want to go to KJ anyway)
Samus
Luigi
Pikachu
DK
You should probably ban KJ vs
Peach
Puff (because her stage presence isn't hindered there but yours is)
Ganon
Vs Fox you probably should ban Cruise or KJ
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Palpi
Smash Hero
D-tilt alot and land Fsmashes.
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Read this Roy board. There's lots of good information about how to play him in general and character/stage specific matchups.
Learn all of his wavedash lengths, dashdance lengths, downtilt combos, chainthrows on fastfallers, uair to tilt/smash combos, and d/fthrow mixups to forward smash. Also learn all DED combos, which are all very character/DI dependent.
Learn all of his wavedash lengths, dashdance lengths, downtilt combos, chainthrows on fastfallers, uair to tilt/smash combos, and d/fthrow mixups to forward smash. Also learn all DED combos, which are all very character/DI dependent.
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Sethlon is the best Roy ever.
The tomahawk is the best combo ever. Approach the enemy with a short hop so they expect an aerial, but do nothing. As soon as you land, they will drop their shield. Forward smash immediately.
The tomahawk is the best combo ever. Approach the enemy with a short hop so they expect an aerial, but do nothing. As soon as you land, they will drop their shield. Forward smash immediately.
Sethlon? i shall look him up, and i feel as if that wont happen every time haha, maybe once a match thing haha
Ripple
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look up me if you really want to learn how to play fast. I'm by FAR the fastest player
Palpi
Smash Hero
I just lol'd. 
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITKEZ06xIE
One of my all-time favorite videos. A Roy player beats Mango (in one match, but that's besides the point) in pools.
1:04 - The dash out of grab range to shield-poke with forward B is clever use of DED.
1:32 - dthrow to platform waveland tech-chase is ****ing brilliant. Sethlon is a god.
Note his heavy use of dtilts and dash/pivots just out of grab range to DED. Also note the specific DED combos he uses based on the situation and percent Sheik is at. Sethlon uses flare blade (neutral B) a lot in aerial combos because it has a higher knockback and more range than fair. I think it also does more damage.
Also, of all of Roy's moves, his least useful (imo) is dair. dair is really only appropriate as a short hop OOS option if the opponent is just behind you. Short hop straight up or away from the opponent and immediately down-air so that you have protection as you escape OOS. However, if the opponent is facing you and you're shielding facing away, you'll probably get grabbed as soon as you try to short hop before the dair comes out. Hence why dair is fairly useless. When it spikes, it's a meteor, so it's bunk in that department as well.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, his usmash is pretty bad, too. It has it's uses, though. Rare, but it does have at least one or two situations in which it can be considered an option. Also his usmash spike is a meteor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA-jSSXDM2o around 2:10 in. Keep in mind Roy (and Marth) have decent knockback on their uthrows. An upthrow at 200% is a guaranteed kill on Zelda on almost any stage.
One of my all-time favorite videos. A Roy player beats Mango (in one match, but that's besides the point) in pools.
1:04 - The dash out of grab range to shield-poke with forward B is clever use of DED.
1:32 - dthrow to platform waveland tech-chase is ****ing brilliant. Sethlon is a god.
Note his heavy use of dtilts and dash/pivots just out of grab range to DED. Also note the specific DED combos he uses based on the situation and percent Sheik is at. Sethlon uses flare blade (neutral B) a lot in aerial combos because it has a higher knockback and more range than fair. I think it also does more damage.
Also, of all of Roy's moves, his least useful (imo) is dair. dair is really only appropriate as a short hop OOS option if the opponent is just behind you. Short hop straight up or away from the opponent and immediately down-air so that you have protection as you escape OOS. However, if the opponent is facing you and you're shielding facing away, you'll probably get grabbed as soon as you try to short hop before the dair comes out. Hence why dair is fairly useless. When it spikes, it's a meteor, so it's bunk in that department as well.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, his usmash is pretty bad, too. It has it's uses, though. Rare, but it does have at least one or two situations in which it can be considered an option. Also his usmash spike is a meteor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA-jSSXDM2o around 2:10 in. Keep in mind Roy (and Marth) have decent knockback on their uthrows. An upthrow at 200% is a guaranteed kill on Zelda on almost any stage.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
Roy's dair combos into fsmash, grab, and several other things. It shield pokes like a beast. Dair is very situational, but very very useful. Usmash is useful whenever someone is above you. It comes out faster than flare blade, and combos into itself on fast fallers. Utilt doesn't have the kind of range usmash does. Plus it makes people scared to approach above you.
beating mango isnt as good as beating mango when hes trying haha nut this video showed me so much about roy thanx alot for it
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Everything is situational, but his upsmash is too slow to really be useful for anti-air. Up-tilt is much more viable since it's much faster and sweeps, whereas upsmash has a much more limited horizontal range. Regardless, Roy's best anti-air is shield.
As for dair being good, yes, as an OOS option. Otherwise, most anything else is better.
EDIT: Actually, it doesn't even have to be OOS. If you're back to back with the opponent and not in shield you can sh dair as you retreat to get a decent hit in with a pop-up effect and if you're fast enough against a mid-gravity char you can shffl it into a grab or tilt or something of that sort. Or, in most cases, retreat and wait for more openings since risk is not Roy's friend.
Also, never, ever, EVER crouch cancel with Roy against characters like Peach, Samus, Marth, Ice Climbers, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. Roy has a solid CC game up to a certain percent against a good amount of characters, but there are a few you should never CC against unless you're at 0% so you won't get put into knockback/stun phase and you will just be pushed back.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
I do agree that dair is situational, but i think it is a little more useful than you're giving credit. Also agree with the cc thing.
1. You shouldn't ever play roy vs samus because of how awful the matchup is. Even if you don't actually play marth, switch to marth.
2. The only times you should be holding down vs those characters is dtilt (very rarely) or a surprise dsmash kill.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Then the samus will just d-tilt you.
Ripple
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d-smash knocks them over. just CC then grab. its not that bad
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
fsmash can be CC'd up to a certain percent. Around 30% or so.
harriettheguy
Smash Lord
You're edgehogging sheik and she's about to up+b onto a platform. What do you do?
Pi
Smash Hero
something that results in a reverse nair probably
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Depends on the stage and which angle she's coming from. If it's a short platform stage you can edgehop back-air her to keep her away, but unless she's at really high percents this will probably only establish a few damage points and guarantee her recovery. You could up-air her for a percent or two after you've made sure she goes toward the stage and isn't mindsgamesing you into getting off the ledge. After that you might be able to combo her. Or you can get up early and edgeguard with dtilt and hope she tries to go high. If she's coming from
If the platforms are too high for edgehopped anything and she's recovering from a high angle, you can try to edgehop to an uptilt, but I doubt that's fast enough to get her before she recovers.
Just play around with the different angles until you find how far each of Roy's aerials goes on each stage and where the hitboxes peak at when you're edgehopping them to get an idea of where/what he's capable of defending and on which stage.
If the platforms are too high for edgehopped anything and she's recovering from a high angle, you can try to edgehop to an uptilt, but I doubt that's fast enough to get her before she recovers.
Just play around with the different angles until you find how far each of Roy's aerials goes on each stage and where the hitboxes peak at when you're edgehopping them to get an idea of where/what he's capable of defending and on which stage.
exarch
doot doot doot
Jump from the edge would probably be option one, it should be the fastest way to get to a platform from edgehog. I'm pretty sure this would have to be a guess, as she could teleport over the edge rather than the platform and you probably wouldn't be able to get back to edgehog in time.
You could also try to dair her and combo into a fsmash. Tipper dair will combo at high percents.
Aerial Flare Blade is your highest knockback aerial.
Or you can just cry and let her back on. I think that's my usual strategy. Just kill her later :-/
You could also try to dair her and combo into a fsmash. Tipper dair will combo at high percents.
Aerial Flare Blade is your highest knockback aerial.
Or you can just cry and let her back on. I think that's my usual strategy. Just kill her later :-/
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
I think that's the general consesus on how Roy works against most characters on edgeguard. If you don't kill them with the hit that knocks them off, just let them back on and hope for a good hit later for the kill.
exarch
doot doot doot
Fox Falco Ganon CF Marth Icys and many of the low tiers all get edgeguarded pretty well by Roy. I wouldn't say most characters get back on easily against Roy.
Plus Sheik frequently won't have the platform option; Roy's hits usually will knock her far enough away to stop that. If she does have it she's probably at a lower % anyway, and it's just time for Roy to get back to work.
Plus Sheik frequently won't have the platform option; Roy's hits usually will knock her far enough away to stop that. If she does have it she's probably at a lower % anyway, and it's just time for Roy to get back to work.
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
None of Roy's attacks hit far enough away unless the opponent is at higher percent. They can just DI up and towards the stage on all of his attacks and usually recover around the same time Roy's animation ends, giving them an edge on getting back.
exarch
doot doot doot
Whaaa....??
Are you playing an extra-special unreleased Roy with a nerfed fsmash? It's got some of the strongest knockback for any (usable) move. Who would you rather be using to knock them away?
Roy is pretty worthless at off stage edgeguarding, but on stage he's a boss.
Are you playing an extra-special unreleased Roy with a nerfed fsmash? It's got some of the strongest knockback for any (usable) move. Who would you rather be using to knock them away?
Roy is pretty worthless at off stage edgeguarding, but on stage he's a boss.
Jihnsius
Smash Lord
Last I checked, you can't use fsmash in the air or on the ledge.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Against sheik, just make her up-b and fsmash that *****.
exarch
doot doot doot
I'm working on a new technique that should allow Roy to do fsmash in the air... But it's not going very well so far.
But against Ganon CF Icys and Marth you can just straight up fsmash them cause Ganon CF Icys recovery sucks and can't sweetspot, and most Marths are stuck in 2004 in ability to sweetspot the edge.
Edgeguarding Fox and Falco is a little more involved but Roy's still pretty awesome at it.
Against many characters you can also pull the ledgehog into ledgehop fsmash. Against Doc and Mario it's possible to ledgestall with doublejump while they approach, then as they upb to get onto the level, ledgehop a reverse flareblade before they land (which kills them most of the time.) Or you can just ledgehop a fsmash cause fsmash is awesome.
I like fsmash.
But against Ganon CF Icys and Marth you can just straight up fsmash them cause Ganon CF Icys recovery sucks and can't sweetspot, and most Marths are stuck in 2004 in ability to sweetspot the edge.
Edgeguarding Fox and Falco is a little more involved but Roy's still pretty awesome at it.
Against many characters you can also pull the ledgehog into ledgehop fsmash. Against Doc and Mario it's possible to ledgestall with doublejump while they approach, then as they upb to get onto the level, ledgehop a reverse flareblade before they land (which kills them most of the time.) Or you can just ledgehop a fsmash cause fsmash is awesome.
I like fsmash.
darkoblivion12
Smash Lord
shiek landing on a platform on:
YS/FoD: waveland fsmash, ledgejump fsmash/dsmash, waveland usmash, ledgehop uair, ledgehop flare blade
others except DL(including brinstar): can't do waveland fsmash, or ledgehop uair
DL: ledgejump fsmash/dsmash
PS: edge is generally too far for shiek to land on, but in case of it you should be able to see it ahead of time and get to the platform
that should cover it.
good day sir
YS/FoD: waveland fsmash, ledgejump fsmash/dsmash, waveland usmash, ledgehop uair, ledgehop flare blade
others except DL(including brinstar): can't do waveland fsmash, or ledgehop uair
DL: ledgejump fsmash/dsmash
PS: edge is generally too far for shiek to land on, but in case of it you should be able to see it ahead of time and get to the platform
that should cover it.
good day sir