The new Roy Strategem discussion

[Nø Ca$h]

cut this petty bull **** everyone. we are trying to discuss roy productively. NOT trying to see whos right or wrong. just chill the **** out, or i will report. that goes for anyone trolling, flamming, or just being a ****.

anyway, FH fair, uair, or dair onto platforms can lead into his ground game. effectively making his air to ground lead ins work at higher %.

 

[TresChikon]

I apologize for being a d*ck, it won't happen again.

Wouldn't high percentages leave too much room for DI out of said tekchases? It seems like mid percentiles would be more effective, unless it's a FFer or something.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i didnt say u were a d!ck. <3 tres.
i meant higher then normal, not high in general, my bad.

 

[TresChikon]

Nah, I really don't like arguing, but sometimes I get ahead of myself, so I need someone to regulate every now and then.

Speaking of techchases, sometimes if they're offguard/don't know how to SDI, you can tipper fair for a somewhat-reliable jab-reset.

 

[ohgodx]

im back now

I had some matches against Che-lab tonight, and all I can say is tipper side-b
great for when you're struggling for space trying to mind game your opponent on foot
if they get caught in the first side-b attack, just continue, otherwise just keep dashing around

if the opponent is jumping around, try desparately to have a d-tilt ready for the before they land so they can't shield it
today Che-lab played all the fast fallers (Fox, Falco and C. Falcon) if you can catch them with one d-tilt you can just move appropriately to get them into another d-tilt at low percentages, then f-smash anytime you like

my opinion on jab-resetting - instead of jab-resetting, just do a d-tilt or a side-b, even a fsmash if your opponent ever misses a tech; I almost never see Roy's neutral-a fast enough to be able to get a grab in before they get away

last thing about what Ike Love said about crossing someone up
I can only wish I knew how Neo and Ken did it to everyone back in the day, I'd abuse it to the fullest
crossing someone to get behind them absolutely marvelous for grabbing, and in Roy's case a great way to catch opponents in a side-b, or at least shield pressure with Double-Edge Dance: side, side, down
either way, I think it's a masterful skill to be able to do because either way, if you miss or your attacks get shielded, the opponent doesn't have as many options to retaliate while facing away from you
they can't shield grab you, being the biggest advantage
- anyhow I don't know a good method for crossing yet Ike Love, but I'll surely be on the lookout to find one

 

[TresChikon]

Should be careful of crossing Fox, Boozer, DK, or Falco, with their OoS junk

 

[ike_love]

*snip*

Alright, I'm really not trying to get something stared. This is just for the record. ( I don't like being accused of trolling... ) Trolling and simply pointing out a contradiction are two entirely different things. Personally I would rather read someone troll anyway than come to the Roy boards and either hear the players diss Roy the entire time or totally shut someone's ideas out because of the fact that they're not well-versed at that particular aspect. Before you say that a certain technique is bad or whatever, why not just put it into question first. Talk about why or why not it works on specific character/situations. This should ultimately be the point to a "discussion" board. Once again, before I get turned in for an infraction that I didn't commit, I'm not trying to start beef or whatever. But I feel that I at least deserved a rebuttal.

EDIT: on a lighter note, I meant to mention this the other day, but anyways I believe what ogx is referring to here...

*if you can catch them with one d-tilt you can just move appropriately to get them into another d-tilt at low percentages, then f-smash anytime you like*

is called THE ANNHILIATION HYPER VIPER COMBO!!! it's listed with some other pretty good techniques here...http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97749

 

[Nø Ca$h]

chill wit those nappy headed a*s names! its pissin me off.

but w.e. i prefer to dtilt>grab on ffers at low%.

totally needed this sticky.

and thank you for clearing that up ike.

 

[TresChikon]

Against floatier characters, like in the Doc/Ganon range, they react almost instinctively to the d-tilt, so a second d-tilt can mix things up. Normally, I would just use a delayed F-smash after they're done air dodging/freaking out.

It might work once or twice, but it just leaves too room for escape DI when you start spamming it.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

lets discuss vs falco

pros
-roy can cg falco
-roy can combo falco easily
-neutral b edge gaurds falco well

cons
-roy is the perfect weight for falco to combo
-all of roys cp are better for falco, leaving every stage in falcos favor
-lasers
-lasers make FD better for falco
-falco can destroy ur shield via shines and/or dairs
-good spot dodge/roll
-ect

if playing an alright falco, u will either be trying to escape pressure or in stun for the majority of the match.

whats everyones input on this matchup?

 

[ChivalRuse]

lets discuss vs falco

pros
-roy can cg falco
-roy can combo falco easily
-neutral b edge gaurds falco well

cons
-roy is the perfect weight for falco to combo
-all of roys cp are better for falco, leaving every stage in falcos favor
-lasers
-lasers make FD better for falco
-falco can destroy ur shield via shines and/or dairs
-good spot dodge/roll
-ect

if playing an alright falco, u will either be trying to escape pressure or in stun for the majority of the match.

whats everyones input on this matchup?

Powershield, grab, and platform waveland are all you need, really. Laser gayness means you can't just throw out dtilts or DED, nor can you really dash dance. Instead, you pretty much have to wavedash in and out of your shield and read Falco really well. You also have to fsmash a lot. If you can't kill Falco at low percents it's pretty much GG.

CC anything you can; wait for the dash attacks/jabs/nairs/bairs and just CC dtilt > grab.

Stupid Falco.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

he dairs, shines follows ur di(if u did) and basically he can kill u if u dont tech onto where ever he hits u too. wd oos and powershielding are good against lasers, but only w/ laser approaches. he has other uses for it. counter is alright if the falco does the same crap with lasers, but it loses purpose quickly.

i do love dtilt>grab tho, it opens up to alot of crap.

i dont think the matchup is impossible, but it is very hard.

 

[TresChikon]

O-death possible on Falco on FD?

Or like what are you supposed to do once you spaced his lasers and get in? D-tilt? grab?

 

[Nø Ca$h]

im pretty sure u can grab>cg>uair grab>uair fsmash and edge gaurd for a 0-death on FD.

im thinking about a good tactic on getting a grab. maybe shield a laser and wd OoS towards him, keeping up the shield just in case of a dair, and grab.
or maybe instead of shielding, CCC him w/ dtilt.

 

[TresChikon]

I really wouldn't rely on CC in this matchup because if it's a decent Falco, he won't really be making any mistakes for you to capitalize on. Even if you manage to get a few CC's he'll punish you much harder for trying it more than a few times.

Dair loses its invincibility during it, so you have the frame advantage for grabbing
Fair and nair do any good in this match?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Fair and nair do any good in this match?

Nair isn't very good, but sometimes you can end a combo with it to get Falco offstage (if you have no better options).

Fair is pretty decent. It helps to slow Falco down and you can space it to at least prevent him from CC shining you. Generally if you hit Falco with a fair it should be followed up with a grab or something optimal (like dtilt).

 

[AprilShaw]

For Falco I stay at max range and poke him with super-weak tipped aerials (N and F mostly)

Also, down throw to tech chase works so well vs him once chaingrab stops being helpful :D if you guess right, sweet spot f-smash to the face.

For me vs Falco it's all about spacing. Read Mogwai's Falco guide on the Falco boards, it talks about spacing, where 1 SHL (short hop laser) is the ideal amount of space a Falco wants between him and his opponent. For Roy, too close and it's a 0-death combo, too far and lasers all day. I like to stick to 1/2~3/4 SHL range (note, this means he can't hit you with an approaching SHL and can't run away very well).

What I'd like to know is what's good for CPs/bans vs Falco? I either ban FD or Pokemon (usually FD, I'm not very comfortable with Roy's chaingrab) but I never really know what to counterpick haha. Usually I end up going with battlefield (I just like the stage) and Yoshi's (it's small... helps me with my spacing xD).

Edit: Also at higher percents (~100%, maybe a little higher or lower, can't really remember) D-air to F-smash combos if they're on the ground and you don't sweet spot the D-air. Some Falcos like to trade hits, make it hurt :D

 

[HiIH]

What I'd like to know is what's good for CPs/bans vs Falco? I either ban FD or Pokemon (usually FD, I'm not very comfortable with Roy's chaingrab) but I never really know what to counterpick haha. Usually I end up going with battlefield (I just like the stage) and Yoshi's (it's small... helps me with my spacing xD).

I highly advise learning the intricacies of Brinstar. It's a great place to take spacies, has a close side, and HUGE ceiling, and lava combos **** spacies.

The biggest advantage against spacies though is the ACTUAL stage. A Falco trying to dair a shield on those little bullets that hold the stage together is ALMOST ALWAYS gonna be able to get shield grabbed. It really messes up a spacies timing unless they know the stage.

 

[AprilShaw]

Hmm, that's funny because I CP Brinstar a LOT and either go Jiggs or Peach. But I don't think I've ever played on it as anyone else haha. Seems like a good idea though, I'll try it o:

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i thought of a good thingy. if falco shine>dair pressures ur shield, jc the shield before the dair and u can tech. but its likely to just get tech chased from reaction.

nair isnt that good in this matchup.
and if u SDI lasers, u can inch urself out of combos
it sucks that FoD, a good roy board, is a better falco board lol. but brinstar is an intelligent cp in this match

 

[TresChikon]

That'll take some crazy reaction time, plus you might not even be sure if he'll dair.

If you really can react that soon I suggest you tilt the shield upwards to throw off or delay his timing so that a SG will be easier.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

doesnt his dair have enough shield stun so u cant sg?
if he hits u and not the shield, it might throw off his l cancel. because there is a diff timing of falcos shfflc dair. if it hits someone, u have to l cancel at a slightly later time. if it hits a shield its a different timing

 

[ChivalRuse]

i thought of a good thingy. if falco shine>dair pressures ur shield, jc the shield before the dair and u can tech. but its likely to just get tech chased from reaction.

I think you're better off just buffering a roll. Getting hit intentionally is risky because you can miss the tech and get dsmashed or utilted into a combo. Rolling is simply faster and less risky.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i didnt know ronald mcdonald got a sex change?

and i kinda figured that wouldnt be worth it, i come up w/ random things lol

 

[ChivalRuse]

i didnt know ronald mcdonald got a sex change?

Haha. I know, right?

 

[TresChikon]

doesnt his dair have enough shield stun so u cant sg?
if he hits u and not the shield, it might throw off his l cancel. because there is a diff timing of falcos shfflc dair. if it hits someone, u have to l cancel at a slightly later time. if it hits a shield its a different timing

Nope it's entirely possible to SG him, there really isn't any attack that'll put you in stun that long.

Granted that if the Falco delays his dair so that it doesn't come out till he's nearly reached the ground, you won't be able to SG and will eat a shine instead.

However, if he just uses the typical pillar timing or even dairing too early it's very likely that you can grab him out of it.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

coolio. i hope double shines dont become too popular

u know, uair forces get ups? u can thunder into fsmashes if they miss a tech! i think it only works on fox, falco, falcon, sheik(at lowish % i think), and roy. i didnt test everything fully, but i think its worth looking into.

i would love dtilt onto platform>uair missed tech>fsmash. too bad it relies on ur opponents muscle memory failing.

 

[TresChikon]

Well shinegrabs are more effective, so grab him at the first dair. Doubleshines only catch spotdogers. Basically don't let him shine.

U-air resets? Finally his low knockback pays off. That does sound cool.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Lol I played Roy today. Reading rolls with his fsmash is too good.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

OMG!! i think first hit of nair forces getups aswell!!

im gonna test this and uair on every char on a wide variaty of% this weekend

yeah i help a chars meta game that i dont even use. get @ me

 

[Ripple]

thunder's with roy >>> Thunder's with fox

 

[TresChikon]

Dunno, it might work a few times, but they'll catch on and SDI that ish

 

[Nø Ca$h]

or just tech

 

[TresChikon]

Anything would be great for Roy's game, up to what percents does nair/uair reset w/o DI?

 

[Nø Ca$h]

it works on fox, falco, falcon, and gaw.
after i did it to gaw once, it didnt work. so gaw would be VERY low %.

im gonna get the exact % for fox, falco, and falcon hopefully by tommorow.(school jons)

and forget about nair, its harder to hit with and stops working at lower %




if they dont tech and dont di the uair, its almost garunteed they miss the fsmash di and die mad early.

 

[TresChikon]

Sounds tasty, tell me if this works out.

i would love dtilt onto platform>uair missed tech>fsmash.

Scoring like 30% kills on YS

 

[Rain(ame)]

Yo.....I'm back...it looks like you guys have been busy. I think I'll have to have a discussion with Chival and Lunar to see what posts I should link to, and what not.

It's nice to see the Roy boards so on point.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yo.....I'm back...it looks like you guys have been busy. I think I'll have to have a discussion with Chival and Lunar to see what posts I should link to, and what not.

It's nice to see the Roy boards so on point.

I'm kind of clueless too. I think we've been discussing random things that can improve the metagame of a certain sword-wielding low tier with red hair. But I could be mistaken.

In other news, all my characters (well, secondaries, at least) were getting ***** by my friend's Ness. He's pretty good at this game, this Chred2aKrisp fellow. So I pulled out my Roy and pretty much *****. It must be, like, a terrible match-up for Ness or something looooll.

Guys, we need to stop being fancy and fsmash more. Seriously.

 

[Rain(ame)]

LOL, that is so true. It's like with Peach and her dsmash. Every Peach wants to deny the Dsmash. It's her best friend. It's her "special" friend.

Seriously, though....more baiting into Fsmash, please. Fancy is fine, but let's not forget the basics. >_> Still....Fsmash is so unsafe....

 

[ChivalRuse]

Still....Fsmash is so unsafe....

True, but if it's shielded at mid to long range it's, like, unpunishable. As long as you space it so it 's not shieldgrabbable. Sooo much shield stun.

The more you fsmash, the more you send out a panic message. It's the best mindgame ever. There's like no way around it when you're panicking.

"Oh no! Gotta spotdodge." *Mistimes it and gets fsmashed anyway*

It's so easy to be complacent when facing Roy's fsmash. "Whatever." *Shields it ... unexpected shieldstun. Tries to wavedash out of shield. Jump starts late. Get's fsmashed out of jump*

Bahahahahahaha