These are the MUs I'm confused on:
![Ice Climbers :popo: :popo:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
-3, while
![Meta Knight :metaknight: :metaknight:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
is -2? I think they should both be -2. Coney, you said the reason was "if the ICs never drops the grab, it's minus three." If that's the case, shouldn't alll IC MU ratios with characters like Link, Mario, PT also be -3? I feel as though we do MUCH better than many characters in this situation, because we can gimp them, and quickly take a stock with one separation. The worst part IMO isnt the grabs, it's that in the air battle, uair racks SO easily, and if they read the airdodge, it can lead INTO a grab. I don't know though, I only live by two really good ICs players in Hylian and Future
![Awesome :awesome: :awesome:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
. But my main point is if ICs are -3, then MK is at least that...if MK is -2, ICs are no worse than -2...my opinion.
![Pit :pit: :pit:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
-1? How does that calculate. I haven't played any good Pits, but I don't see how we could, in theory, lose this. Has anyone played a good Pit and can clarify?
![Sheilda :sheilda: :sheilda:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
-1? I will never agree with this, even though you've already explained the reasons behind it.
![Ness :ness2: :ness2:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
+3? Really? I think ROB is +1 at most. I've always felt that matchup was way over exaggerated...
![Snake :snake: :snake:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
+1?? How in the world is this MU not even. He can camp us, kill us, rack up damage quickly...if the
![Peach :peach: :peach:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
MU is even, Snake should definitely be.
![Marth :marth: :marth:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
same reasoning as the above argument...if peach is even, Marth should be, too. He has amazing tools to zone us, and a good Marth shouldn't get grabbed very often. He's hard to gimp, quick, punishes SO well, and has amazing ground and air games. Can someone explain this to me??
Even with the upsmash on
![Lucario :lucario: :lucario:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
, I will still always feel this MU is even. He has no problem killing us, comboing us, and zoning us. He has tons of good tool, an amazing roll, and even out camps us. Seriously,
![Zelda :zelda: :zelda:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
is at +1 while Lucario is +2?? I just don't see it...he has all of her tools, and many many more. Not to mention that top Lucarios beat top
![Dedede :dedede: :dedede:](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/dedede.png)
all the time. Therefore, that ratio just seems off to me.