The New Counter Game: Read the **** Rules or the Thread Get's Locked

[SpelignFial]

Yanmega @ Wide lens
Speed Boost/ Modest
4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Protect
Hypnosis
HP Ground
Bug Buzz

 

[supermarth64]

Yanmega @ Wide lens
Speed Boost/ Modest
4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
Protect
Hypnosis
HP Ground
Bug Buzz

Regice @ Leftovers
Calm / Clear Body
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Now excuse me for a second.

Also, Infernape isn't that much better than Blaziken. The only thing that Infernape has over Blaziken is more speed and access to Nasty Plot. Blaziken is stronger, arguably a little bulkier, can Baton Pass, and has Agility. Close Combat might be nice, but I'm perfectly fine with Sky UpperCut, so I don't lose my defenses over time. I prefer not killing myself while I fight, which is why I like Blaze Kick over Flare Blitz. Also, Blaizken has access to Reversal too, which is a little plus after I have taken a few hits.[/COLOR]

Haha, this is funny.
1) Base 108 speed > base 90 speed, as it allows Infernape to outspeed non-scarfed/speed boosted base 100s and strike before they hit Infernape first.
2) Ok, Nasty Plot is better as you say it is.
3) So... you want to be bulkier even though you can't take a hit in the first place? Also, comparing min/min neutral nature defenses, Blaziken is approximately 1.44% more physically bulky and 1.58% more specially bulky. When you have defenses that low, that's not a difference.
4) So can many other Pokemon. What makes Blaziken stand out? Ninjask has Speed Boost, Smeargle is the only Pokemon that can Belly Drum and Pass out, Zapdos can Agility with higher defenses, Vaporeon has Acid Armor and huge substitutes.
5) Ok, so Blaziken can Agility. Infernape can outspeed base 100s naturally.
6) You're fine with a base 85 attack 90% accuracy move? After STAB, that comes out to 127.5 base power with 90% accuracy, an average of 114.75 base power. I'd rather have a base 120 attack 100% accuracy move. After STAB, it's 180 base power. Guess what? After accuracy, it's STILL 180 base power, over half as strong as Sky Uppercut.
7) There's no point in caring about losing your defenses over time if they suck already.
8) Funny, as the most prominent set in UU for Blaziken also uses Life Orb.
9) More Infernapes use Fire Blast, just like you Blaziken people. Flare Blitz is for Choice Band sets.
10) K, after you Reversal and take down one Pokemon, I'll just go ahead with a priority move and kill your Blaziken. Hell, with Sandstorm, you're dead after that reversal anyway. Don't even bother using a Focus Sash without a spinner, as SR is almost always on the field anyway, which means you'll have to be using Endure.

 

[Platypus]

We will conquer that with dust!

Entei w/Life Orb
Modest/Pressure
200 Sp. Atk./ 200 Sp. Def./ 110 Speed
+ Volcanic Explody Blast
+ Sleep Talk
+ Rest
+ HP Flying
If only Hyper Cutter blocked Burn's neutering effect, Rotom would be less of a threat to Gligar.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

We will conquer that with dust!

Entei w/Life Orb
Modest/Pressure
200 Sp. Atk./ 200 Sp. Def./ 110 Speed
+ Volcanic Explody Blast
+ Sleep Talk
+ Rest
+ HP Flying
If only Hyper Cutter blocked Burn's neutering effect, Rotom would be less of a threat to Gligar.

:flame:
What? I don't mean to be an As, and I know the Ump will Shun me, but I am going to make an Assumption, and pretend that "Volcanic Explody Blast" = Fireblast.

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Timid/Thick Fat
252specialattack/82specialdefense/176speed
Calm Mind
Psychic
Hidden Power Fighting
Dream Eater
Go to sleep. Please. I'll steal your soul... Muhahahahahahahahaha.... AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



And Supermarth, lets chat a bit.
1= I agreed that Infernape beats Blaziken in Speed. I know.
2= Nasty Plot depends on the Pokemon. I simply said that he actually has it. In this Physically based game, a few Pokemon that can actually use Super Boosted Special Attacks is nice. WHY MUST THE POWERS THAT BE BE SO ROCK BIASED!?! SANDSTORM, STEALTHROCK, SWORDDANCE......
3, = Plenty of times, in my experiences with random trainers (I'm not a Smogon Battler. I use my DS, simply for the portablity. It's fun to be able to walk down a hall-way, lock eyes with someone, glance down into their hands and see their Pokemon game, and without any words, walk a small distance away, sit down, and begin battling eachother.), Blaziken has just barely been able to survive by the skin of her teeth. I don't know if it's just been the Pokemon's Iv's not being maxed out, or if it was just due to not switching her into Surfs and Waterfalls and Earthquakes and Earthpowers and Psychics and ZenHeadbutts and Bravebirds and Aircutters, but many times that Infernape has been put away, Blaziken just barely makes it to fight. This is just a matter of personal experience, is all. But for me, that slight amount of defense does indeed make a difference.
4= I was not comparing Blaziken to Ninjask, Smeargle, Zapdos and Vaporeon. I was comparing Blaziken to Infernape. If we want to start comparing the world, you can talk about the advantages of Farfetch'd and I'll talk about Lugia.
5= Again, from personal experience, I like using Agility, and outspeeding most everyone in existance, even if I'm naturally a little slow. I do have the attack power to back it up.
6= Another personal experience one. A= As long as I am not using Focus Punch, Zap Cannon or Dynamic Punch, most of my attachs, from 999% to 70% usually work fine for me. And again, although Close Combat is a stronger attack, Blaziken's superior attack stats usually help me make the best of them.
7= See 3.
8= See () in 3.
9= See () in 3. Also, I'm not a Blaziken person. I'm a Dragon Person, although I like experimenting with random Pokemon. I've taken a huge liking to my WALL OF MAMOSWINE!
10= You act like you are prepared for every situation with every Pokemon's every attack and every item and every stat with your team of 6. Might I ask what they are? You seem to assume quite a bit about an enemy, and I hope you do well with your guesses. Again, in most situations, my Blaziken has worked quite fine. What's with the Phoenix hate, anyway?
:flame:

 

[ungulateman]

That's still OU...

No, Electivire is UU these days. It used to be OU when D/P came out.

 

[WouW]

No, Electivire is UU these days. It used to be OU when D/P came out.

It WAS BL for a while, but then it became OU again.

Not that it makes any difference, your counter failed regardless.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Ungulatedman, what Wouw means by the second part of that post is your Pokemon's moves.

If you use a Choice-Pokemon (A Pokemon that is holding a Choice Band, Scarf, or Specs), all of the moves that you list it having must be able to defeat your enemy Pokemon. You can't use a Spec's boosted Flamethrower against a Pokemon with Flashfire, you can't use a Scarf'ed Shadowball against a Normal Type, and (in your case), you can't use a Banded Earthquake against a Flying Type (just a few examples).

Most people op to use only 1 move for Choice Pokemon, so long as it actually works (although people like Wouw will go out of their way to make sure as many moves as possible work). But if even 1 of your moves would not work against the enemy you are trying to counter (to make sure people don't post anything like a Adamant Choice Scarf Rampardos with Max Attack and Speed with the remains in Hp, using HeadSmash, Earthquake, Zen Headbutt and Super Power, which would be a tough Pokemon to counter indeed), then your counter is invalidated.

And yes, Electivire is indeed an Overused Pokemon (God I hate the names of these ranks. Can't they just be S-Ranked, A-Ranked, B-Ranked, C-Ranked, F-Ranked, and Incomplete?

But enough about that. Counter my Soul Sucking Grumpig.
:flame:

 

[WouW]

:flame:
Grumpig @ Leftovers
Timid/Thick Fat
252specialattack/82specialdefense/176speed
Calm Mind
Psychic
Hidden Power Fighting
Dream Eater

:flame:

Sableye @ Leftovers
Careful/Keen Eye
252HP/120Def/136SpD
Knock Off
Substitute
Night Shade
Will-o-Wisp

A +6 anything will do 0 (0.00% - 0.00%) damage.

 

[philbobjoe]

Ampharos @ Leftovers
Modest/Static
252 HP/252 SpA/4Speed
Substitute
Thunderbolt
Focus Blast
HP Ice

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Camerupt @ Leftovers
Modest / Solid Rock
252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd / 6 Def
~ Explosion
~ Hidden Power (Grass)
~ Flamethrower
~ Earth Power

-Terywj

 

[jigglyppuff8]

Explosion is not allowed in counters, I believe. I could be wrong.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Explosion is not allowed in counters, I believe. I could be wrong.

:flame:
You aren't exactly countering something if you kill yourself doing it.... we aren't Suicide Bombers.

As such, someone should counter Ampharos. I kinda feel like chillin' for a while though. Ah screw it...

Marowak @ Thick Club
Jolly/Rock Head
4hp/252attack/252speed
Swords Dance
Bonemerang
Stone Edge
Double Edge

Outspeeds easy. Even if you Substitute, you're going to get hammered by the return hit (I love how each hit does at minimum 80ish%). Rest are all coverage.
:flame:

 

[Platypus]

VEB is Eruption; note Rest/Sleep talk. My fault, it is. Against Liteouce:

Mesprit w/Choice Specs
Mild/Levitate
200 Sp. Atk./ 200 Sp. Def./ 110 Speed
+ HP Ground
+ Thunderbolt
+ Trick
+ Imprison
You may prioritize, if you like, though I may note that the above Ampharos is the one at the top of the Smogon list. It also has the first combination of moves.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

VEB is Eruption; note Rest/Sleep talk. My fault, it is. Against Liteouce:

Mesprit w/Choice Specs
Mild/Levitate
200 Sp. Atk./ 200 Sp. Def./ 110 Speed
+ HP Ground
+ Thunderbolt
+ Trick
+ Imprison
You may prioritize, if you like, though I may note that the above Ampharos is the one at the top of the Smogon list. It also has the first combination of moves.

:flame:
Who are you countering? I know I posted my Marowak before you posted Mespirit (although I did need to spell check a few things). If this counter works against Marowak too, then don't worry (although even with Choice Specs, you would only 2 hit kill at best, while (because of your switch in), I get my 2 Double Edges in easy). But if it doesn't, then counter Marowak now....

Seriously, where do you get half of your names? Do you smoke Hash? Can I buy some?
:flame:

 

[WouW]

VEB is Eruption; note Rest/Sleep talk. My fault, it is. Against Liteouce:

Mesprit w/Choice Specs
Mild/Levitate
200 Sp. Atk./ 200 Sp. Def./ 110 Speed
+ HP Ground
+ Thunderbolt
+ Trick
+ Imprison
You may prioritize, if you like, though I may note that the above Ampharos is the one at the top of the Smogon list. It also has the first combination of moves.

First, I don't know who the hell you are countering. Second, just type proper names to avoid a lot of confusion.

And third, if it were for countering Marowak, it fails, as Double-Edge easily 2HKOs, even after Tricking Thick Club away. You fail to OHKO.

 

[ungulateman]

Platypus:

Houndoom @ Life Orb
Rash / Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Flamethrower
-Dark Pulse
-Thunderbolt
-Taunt

(I know it has HP Ground, it's getting a STAB potentially specs-boosted (or LO-boosted) Dark Pulse in the face.)

Also, Da-D-Mon, If you actually look at Smogon you'll see Electivire is UU now. **facepalm**

 

[WouW]

Look at the OU page. Look at the Electivire page.
Both say OU. I don't know where the **** you get your **** from. *epic facepalm*

Also, Marowak is the current counter, and Houndoom fails at countering Mesprit as a Specs HP Ground can OHKO it on the switch, and otherwise you would kill yourself after LO damage. And Houndoom doesn't learn Thunderbolt.

 

[NJzFinest]

Houndoom can learn Thunderbolt? O_o

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Houndoom can learn Thunderbolt? O_o

:flame:
Only if you hack the game. There is no way to actually give Houndoom a Thunderbolt attack in the real game.

And yeah, Electivire is most definitely OU.

Electivire OU Motor Drive 75 123 67 95 85 95

Your counter still failed because of the choice-rule that I clearly mentioned in my last post dirrected at you as well. But yeah, Electivire is not an BL or below. He is definitely OU. And yeah, Houndoom can not learn Thunderbolt. You should try playing the games more so that you'd know this stuff (Games include DS and Computer). Someone please counter my Marowak now.
:flame:

 

[Blackroserade66]

Umm, so what are we supposed to countering right now, hmm?

 

[WouW]

Marowak .

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Marowak @ Thick Club
Jolly/Rock Head
4hp/252attack/252speed
Swords Dance
Bonemerang
Stone Edge
Double Edge
:flame:

:flame:
Specifically, this Marowak.
:flame:

 

[KrazyGlue]

Marowak @ Thick Club
Jolly/Rock Head
4hp/252attack/252speed
Swords Dance
Bonemerang
Stone Edge
Double Edge

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Timid/ Chlorophyll
44 HP/252 SP.ATK/212 Speed
Energy Ball
Sunny Day
Earth Power
HP Rock

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Timid/ Chlorophyll
44 HP/252 SP.ATK/212 Speed
Energy Ball
Sunny Day
Earth Power
HP Rock

:flame:
Charizard @ Petaya Berry
Timid/Blaze
54specialattack/204specialdefense/252speed
Flame Thrower
Solar Beam
Hidden Power Rock
Sunny Day

If you don't turn on the sun, you fail to outspeed me, and Hidden Power Rock fails to kill Charizard. Burn Baby! Yay that I get to use my Flame Dragon!
:flame:

 

[supermarth64]

Yea, ignore this.

 

[ungulateman]

My turn to try harder.

Rapidash (F) @Life Orb
Hasty/Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
-Fire Blast
-Megahorn
-Body Slam
-Captivate

Captivate makes HP Rock go fail, Body Slam may paralyze, and both of my other moves are super-effctive.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

That's a GREAT counter... if you wanna be OHKOed by HP Rock 46.15% on the switch in:

349 Atk vs 257 Def & 297 HP (70 Base Power): 272 - 324 (91.58% - 109.09%)

:flame:
I hope Wouw or PinkReaper gets back. They can be the tie-breaker. But just to let you know, 350 attack comes from a BOOSTING NATURE (Like Modest). This Tangrowth is TIMID. So at best, he gets 319 attack power. That's how I know you messed up on your math.

Charizard is the current counter, unless I missed something (Tangrowth is holding Leftovers, not using a boosting move, and has max special attack evs with a neutral special attack nature, giving him an attack power of 319. Charizard is switching in (so he can't boost his defense), and has enough special defense evs to reach a special defense of 257, which is just enough to ensure that Hidden Power Rock is never a 1 hit kill. ).

319 Atk vs 257 Def & 297 HP (70 Base Power): 248 - 296 (83.50% - 99.66%)

Yeah, Charizard is not being countered by Tangrowth. Charizard does the countering. Now counter him, darn it. Oh, and ungulatedman, nice attempt with your counter. Too bad you get instantly killed on the switchin by Earth Power.
:flame:

 

[supermarth64]

****, my bad. Looked at Def stat instead of SpA stat. It's a 1 digit difference, my bad. I guess the current counter is Charizard.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

****, my bad. Looked at Def stat instead of SpA stat. It's a 1 digit difference, my bad. I guess the current counter is Charizard.

:flame:
Hey, I make stupid mistakes like that 24-7. But my Flame Dragon is not a pokemon that I make mistakes with. I make sure he's correct.
:flame:

 

[Oracle]

I vote we don't use moves based on gender because they're retardedly unreliable, unless you're abusing the fact that no one cares on shoddy; even then Captivate is situational and won't work against a lot of people who don't have genders

Also let's never use attract. I hate that move

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I vote we don't use moves based on gender because they're retardedly unreliable, unless you're abusing the fact that no one cares on shoddy; even then Captivate is situational and won't work against a lot of people who don't have genders

Also let's never use attract. I hate that move

:flame:
A)His counter didn't work anyway, so it's not really an issue.

B)If a Pokemon is of a specific gender, there isn't really an issue with taking advantage of that (The Battle of the Sexes will never be won because Fraternizing with the enemy is too much fun).

C)It's not that taking advantage of an enemy's gender is as rigged as Exploding or using Destiny Bond. Plus, if the user uses a move that is ineffective against an enemy, than more power to that enemy (we take advantage of ev less sets, nature inspecific sets, item less sets, and sets that don't use all of their moves, so if someone leaves a huge hole in their offense by using a gender specific strategy, then we should be able to take advantage off that easily).

And D)Not everyone plays on Shoddy.

But if more people feel that Gender shouldn't be used to counter, then lets bring it up with Reaper when he gets back. I personally think that if an Illumise wants to Flaunt her stuff and then get Attracted by my Mothim, I have no problem with it.
:flame:

 

[Pika25]

But if more people feel that Gender shouldn't be used to counter, then lets bring it up with Reaper when he gets back. I personally think that if an Illumise wants to Flaunt her stuff and then get Attracted by my Mothim, I have no problem with it.

Similar with Miltank, Jynx, Nidoqueen, Kangaskhan, Vespiquen, Blissey or Froslass (all only female) vs. any Hitmon, Volbeat, Tauros, Nidoking or Gallade (all only male).

I'm assuming that if Mothim's Attract work on Illumise, that Illumise do not have Oblivious, that she have Tinted Lens instead, because Oblivious prevents her attraction to any males.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Similar with Miltank, Jynx, Nidoqueen, Kangaskhan, Vespiquen, Blissey or Froslass (all only female) vs. any Hitmon, Volbeat, Tauros, Nidoking or Gallade (all only male).

I'm assuming that if Mothim's Attract work on Illumise, that Illumise do not have Oblivious, that she have Tinted Lens instead, because Oblivious prevents her attraction to any males.

:flame:
Of course, or she'd never be able to take down half of the creatures that she would normally could.

Wouldn't it be funny if from this incident that we all start trying to counter a Pokemon by using its gender against it?
:flame:

 

[WouW]

Gender-based moves and abilities really aren't ban-worthy.

If you really want to limit it, it could be restricted to when you 100% know the gender - by using certain pokés or posting the gender.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

Gender-based moves and abilities really aren't ban-worthy.

If you really want to limit it, it could be restricted to when you 100% know the gender - by using certain pokés or posting the gender.

:flame:
Hehe, told ya. Infact, in situations with a certainty of knowing your enemy's gender, you should gladly take them down for it.

I guess people don't focus on it because it is mean to hit a Hitmonlee below the belt.
:flame:

 

[WouW]

:flame:
Charizard @ Petaya Berry
Timid/Blaze
54specialattack/204specialdefense/252speed
Flame Thrower
Solar Beam
Hidden Power Rock
Sunny Day

:flame:

Jumpluff @ Occa Berry
Hasty/Leaf Guard
252Spe/252SpA/4HP
Sleep Powder
HP Rock
Solarbeam
Aerial Ace

Hello Do I look familiar?

 

[KrazyGlue]

Questions:

What accuracy does a move need for us to assume that it would work?
For example:
Do we assume hypnosis (70 acc.) hits?
How about zap cannon (50 acc.)?

Also, how do we treat the sleep status? How long are pokemon supposed to sleep?

 

[WouW]

Questions:

Yay.

What accuracy does a move need for us to assume that it would work?
For example:
Do we assume hypnosis (70 acc.) hits?

Generally 70% or even 60% is assumed to always hit.

How about zap cannon (50 acc.)?

As for those two, I don't know but I assume they hit every other turn. No definitive rule has been made about that.

Also, how do we treat the sleep status? How long are pokemon supposed to sleep?

Two turns.

 

[NJzFinest]

Ew, no one should use Zap Cannon on their sets >_<

 

[KrazyGlue]

Ok, thanks WouW.

Ew, no one should use Zap Cannon on their sets >_<

It was just an example.