The New Console Debates

[Cashed]

With all due respect Cashed, its difficult to debate the merits of the three consoles without talking about the software libraries of each console. In this case, we were talking about whether the games available for the Wii in '08 would be enough to guarantee its continued success. Whether or not that '08 lineup includes a big franchise like Zelda is completely relevant to this topic.

No, you're talking about whether or not a game that isn't even announced with come out this year, next year or the year after that. You're bringing irrelevant information into this topic. If you and Square-enix want to talk speculate on when the next Zelda game is going to come out, take it to PM.

 

[knightzy]

yes ,very goo d with that outta the way let's get back to what we were talking about.which was?????

 

[Red Exodus]

I really hope Wii's library picks up this year. So far I'm looking at Brawl and Mario Kart at must buys, then I'm thinking about DBZ, Strikers, LoZ:TP, No more Heroes, Medal of Honor and TP as maybes, but that's basically it. Maybe I made a mistake but buying a Wii as my first next gen but most of the hyped line-up isn't my style, such as Rock Band and Animal Crossing.

Nintendo needs to vastly improve the online service [even if it costs $4.50 a month like XBL] and they need to bring in Harddrive support, because quite frankly 512MB of space isn't enough for DLC.

I'm not as harsh on the 360 and PS3 because they have excellent 3rd party support, they get the good and the bad, but the bad is easily ignored, while with the Wii it's mostly bad 3rd party software [and hardware]. When 3rd party companies realize motion sensing isn't completely necessary and stop treating the Wii like a side project then I'll be less harsh.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I really hope Wii's library picks up this year. So far I'm looking at Brawl and Mario Kart at must buys, then I'm thinking about DBZ, Strikers, LoZ:TP, No more Heroes, Medal of Honor and TP as maybes, but that's basically it. Maybe I made a mistake but buying a Wii as my first next gen but most of the hyped line-up isn't my style, such as Rock Band and Animal Crossing.

Trust me, Stickers Charged is a must buy, and Rock Band isn't over-hyped, that title goes to Guitar Hero III.

 

[Wiseguy]

I really hope Wii's library picks up this year. So far I'm looking at Brawl and Mario Kart at must buys, then I'm thinking about DBZ, Strikers, LoZ:TP, No more Heroes, Medal of Honor and TP as maybes, but that's basically it. Maybe I made a mistake but buying a Wii as my first next gen but most of the hyped line-up isn't my style, such as Rock Band and Animal Crossing.

Fianl Fantasy: CC, Okami Wii and Monster Hunter 3 are on the way too. I also highly recomend Geometry Wars Galaxies, as its one of my favorite games from last year.

Nintendo needs to vastly improve the online service [even if it costs $4.50 a month like XBL] and they need to bring in Harddrive support, because quite frankly 512MB of space isn't enough for DLC.

You and I may like them to do so, but do they really NEED to? They've already enjoyed tons of success focusing on single player games, and Brawl looks great inspite of the limitations imposed upon it. Do they really have any incentive to change?

I'm not as harsh on the 360 and PS3 because they have excellent 3rd party support, they get the good and the bad, but the bad is easily ignored, while with the Wii it's mostly bad 3rd party software [and hardware]. When 3rd party companies realize motion sensing isn't completely necessary and stop treating the Wii like a side project then I'll be less harsh.

The Wii has a decent number of quality third party games (Geometry Wars, Resident Evil, Guitar Hero, etc.) to be fair. One could just as easily criticize the 360 for its lack of first party titles. Frankly, however, I think both arguments are unjustified since all that really matters is that there are great games to play on the system.

 

[Red Exodus]

Trust me, Stickers Charged is a must buy, and Rock Band isn't over-hyped, that title goes to Guitar Hero III.

I'm not really into that genre, I don't think the games are bad or anything but I prefer more action based games.

Fianl Fantasy: CC, Okami Wii and Monster Hunter 3 are on the way too. I also highly recomend Geometry Wars Galaxies, as its one of my favorite games from last year.

I knew I forgot some games, I also forgot De Blob and Tales of Symphonia 2. I guess those are enough to tie me over until the 08 line up shows up.

You and I may like them to do so, but do they really NEED to? They've already enjoyed tons of success focusing on single player games, and Brawl looks great inspite of the limitations imposed upon it. Do they really have any incentive to change?

It could attract 3rd party support and it would give the hardcore crowd more to explore. I don't even use Wiiconnect24 anymore, all it does it tell you about some lame Check Mii out contest or tell you about a new game.

The Wii has a decent number of quality third party games (Geometry Wars, Resident Evil, Guitar Hero, etc.) to be fair. One could just as easily criticize the 360 for its lack of first party titles. Frankly, however, I think both arguments are unjustified since all that really matters is that there are great games to play on the system.

Nintendo is still missing out of franchises like Burnout, Area 51, Elderscrolls, Battlefield, Half Life, Soul Calibur, Midnight Club, Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, and other new games in the works.

While a strong 1st party line-up gives people a reason to buy your console great 3rd party support puts it in stone.

 

[Wiseguy]

It could attract 3rd party support and it would give the hardcore crowd more to explore. I don't even use Wiiconnect24 anymore, all it does it tell you about some lame Check Mii out contest or tell you about a new game.

I only use online for VC downloads, but that will definitely change come March 10ish.

Nintendo is still missing out of franchises like Burnout, Area 51, Elderscrolls, Battlefield, Half Life, Soul Calibur, Midnight Club, Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto, and other new games in the works.

OH NOEZ! NOT AREA 51!!! That's the final straw. Forget Brawl, I'm gonna trade in Nintendo's kiddy console so I can get me some Area 51! (Didn't that game get a 6/10 on 1up?)

Seriously though, I'm aware that the other consoles have great games that won't come to the Wii. But by the same token, the Wii has cool stuff that is also exclsusive. And I personally find the stuff on Wii much more compelling.

While a strong 1st party line-up gives people a reason to buy your console great 3rd party support puts it in stone.

Or you could balance the two, having FANTASTIC 1st party support and pretty good 3rd party support. Which the Wii does.

 

[Square-enix]

Fianl Fantasy: CC, Okami Wii and Monster Hunter 3 are on the way too. I also highly recomend Geometry Wars Galaxies, as its one of my favorite games from last year.



You and I may like them to do so, but do they really NEED to? They've already enjoyed tons of success focusing on single player games, and Brawl looks great inspite of the limitations imposed upon it. Do they really have any incentive to change?



The Wii has a decent number of quality third party games (Geometry Wars, Resident Evil, Guitar Hero, etc.) to be fair. One could just as easily criticize the 360 for its lack of first party titles. Frankly, however, I think both arguments are unjustified since all that really matters is that there are great games to play on the system.

**** Straight! And nice point! Btw...I do still believe in surprise factor, but never mind...

Someone said that 512 mb on a wii isnt enough...What about SD cards? I do have a SD 1 gb in my Wii...and its ok...

Since I dont own a 360 or ps3, can someone tell me how many memory or space uses game saves in those? I could search for it, but I dont feel like doing that.

 

[Crimson King]

I think like a few KB for some games, a few mb for others, 5 GB for DMC4 just to play it, but load times are rather short, I hear.

 

[Square-enix]

I think like a few KB for some games, a few mb for others, 5 GB for DMC4 just to play it, but load times are rather short, I hear.

OMG! 5GB? ...... So, lets suppose we have 4 games that uses 5GB of space...just supposing that...
Whats the point on having a 20GB hard disk, to just play 4 games? Wii may have a poor 512MB, but I dont think a game could use more than 30 blocks...(Games are based in blocks system, and Re4 uses like no more than 4 blocks...and a 1GB SD gives you around 7000 blocks)

 

[Cashed]

One could just as easily criticize the 360 for its lack of first party titles.

And if one did, they'd be a complete fool. And no, I'm not going to list games for you. This statement shows your ignorance when it comes to the 360's first party developers, publishers and their games. You try to come away unbiased at the end of your post saying how you frankly think that both arguments are unjustified. Then why'd you bring it up? Just trying to get a jab in and covertly sneak away?

 

[Crimson King]

OMG! 5GB? ...... So, lets suppose we have 4 games that uses 5GB of space...just supposing that...
Whats the point on having a 20GB hard disk, to just play 4 games? Wii may have a poor 512MB, but I dont think a game could use more than 30 blocks...(Games are based in blocks system, and Re4 uses like no more than 4 blocks...and a 1GB SD gives you around 7000 blocks)

Well, DMC4 is the ONLY game to do that, and it minimizes load times so no it's not an issue. Also, you can upgrade the PS3 HDD to up to 250 GB. It's on the Sony Blog on how to do it.

There is no PS3 with 20 GB, anymore. Just 40 and 80.

 

[Mediocre]

Well, DMC4 is the ONLY game to do that, and it minimizes load times so no it's not an issue. Also, you can upgrade the PS3 HDD to up to 250 GB. It's on the Sony Blog on how to do it.

There is no PS3 with 20 GB, anymore. Just 40 and 80.

I'm sorry, but console games should not take up 5 GB of hard drive space, nor take more than 20 minutes to install. That's just ridiculous.

That said, I plan to buy DMC on my 360, and would absolutely buy it for PS3 if I had that instead. I just think it's stupid for them to force you to give up such a large portion of your hard disk so they can cut a few seconds off the loading times. As an option it would have been great, but making it mandatory is a bad idea.

 

[RDK]

I'm sorry, but console games should not take up 5 GB of hard drive space, nor take more than 20 minutes to install. That's just ridiculous.

That said, I plan to buy DMC on my 360, and would absolutely buy it for PS3 if I had that instead. I just think it's stupid for them to force you to give up such a large portion of your hard disk so they can cut a few seconds off the loading times. As an option it would have been great, but making it mandatory is a bad idea.

This is why a bigger hard drive would be such a grand idea.

It's also why I'm planning on doing more than soft-moddin the Wii, on account of it's horrendously small hard drive space. 5GB of space for a console game?

Even if that's on the higher end of possible sizes, it's still 3 or 4 GB too much.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I think like a few KB for some games, a few mb for others, 5 GB for DMC4 just to play it, but load times are rather short, I hear.

But DMC 4 so ****ing awesome, it really isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Wiseguy]

And if one did, they'd be a complete fool. And no, I'm not going to list games for you. This statement shows your ignorance when it comes to the 360's first party developers, publishers and their games. You try to come away unbiased at the end of your post saying how you frankly think that both arguments are unjustified. Then why'd you bring it up? Just trying to get a jab in and covertly sneak away?

No, I have no gripe with the 360. I just brought it up because I think its a double standard people have (both the Wii's 3rd party and the 360's 1st party are good in their own right, but somewhat lacking compared to the other).

A quick trip to Wikipedia surfaced this list of games published by Microsoft Game Studios for the 360 last year, and a quick search in Game Rankings yeilded the average review score out of 100.

Halo 3: 93
Mass Effect: 91
Forza Motorsport 2: 90
Project Gotham Racing 4: 86
Crackdown: 84
Blue Dragon: 77
Scene It? Lights, Camera, Action: 74
Shadowrun: Shadowrun: 69
Project Sylpheed: 65
Viva Piñata: Party Animals: 57
Tenchu Z: 56
Fuzion Frenzy 2: 51
Vampire Rain: 40

Speaking from a position of total ignorance, it looks like a pretty good selection to me. If you want to argue that a great game is 80+, then 360 owners got a very respectable 5 great 1st party games. The thing is, that's about what Wii owners got on the 3rd party front:

Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition: 91
Zack and Wiki: 90
Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles: 89
Guitar Hero 3: 86
Geometry Wars Galxies: 80
+1,000,000 crappy and/or average 3rd party titles: 0-79

So there you have it. I'm not saying that the 360's 1st party support isn't good. I'm just curious why it gets a free pass while the Wii's 3rd party support gets constantly harped on.

 

[Xyro77]

wii's 3rd party games get pooped on because 90%(and u know its true) are sheer garbage(redsteel comes to mind). 3rd parties race over to wii thinking they can make a quick buck with little work. That is why wii has a ton of poop filled 3rd party games.

2ndly, you dont argue games by reviews. you argue it by sales. if a game sells 5 milion copies. a rate-ing of 75 dont mean anything.

 

[Wiseguy]

wii's 3rd party games get pooped on because 90%(and u know its true) are sheer garbage(redsteel comes to mind). 3rd parties race over to wii thinking they can make a quick buck with little work. That is why wii has a ton of poop filled 3rd party games.

Does it really impact your life that there are a ton of crappy 3rd party games on a system? No one is forcing you to buy the garbage. As I've said before, its not the presence of bad games that's worrisome, its the lack of good games. As as I pointed out, the Wii does not have this problem.

2ndly, you dont argue games by reviews. you argue it by sales. if a game sells 5 milion copies. a rate-ing of 75 dont mean anything.

Sales aren't irrelivant, but as a gamer it doesn't really concern me whether what I buy is popular or not. Just if its worth my time and money. Average review scores are an imperfect, but serviceable guage of whether a game is likely to meet this standard.

 

[Crimson King]

Yea, ratings do not mean a thing.

I am undecided if I should keep the Wii I am working towards with Webrides, or sell it. I mean it's free, and I could get Galaxy, Brawl, and No More Heroes, but I really don't have a ton of time to play, so I have no idea what to do.

The 360 is out, because most of the games I'd want are on PC or PS3 anyway.

 

[Wiseguy]

This close to Brawl's release, I would say you should give that a try before you make a final decision. From what I hear, its pretty ok.

 

[Crimson King]

I cannot justify a console buy based on one game.

 

[Wiseguy]

Well its your call, obviously, but I assume whether or not Brawl meets your expectations will factor into your decision (alng with Galaxy, NMH, and whatever other games are announced). All I'm saying is that you might be able to make a more informed decision one way or another if you try Brawl first. Just a suggestion.

 

[Square-enix]

Well, DMC4 is the ONLY game to do that, and it minimizes load times so no it's not an issue. Also, you can upgrade the PS3 HDD to up to 250 GB. It's on the Sony Blog on how to do it.

There is no PS3 with 20 GB, anymore. Just 40 and 80.

OK...I forgot the load factor completely....
250GB HDD looks nice...but also expensive...I think

 

[Xyro77]

Does it really impact your life that there are a ton of crappy 3rd party games on a system? No one is forcing you to buy the garbage. As I've said before, its not the presence of bad games that's worrisome, its the lack of good games. As as I pointed out, the Wii does not have this problem.



Sales aren't irrelivant, but as a gamer it doesn't really concern me whether what I buy is popular or not. Just if its worth my time and money. Average review scores are an imperfect, but serviceable guage of whether a game is likely to meet this standard.

i can name about 15-20 good wii games and about 60 bad ones and thats with 90% of nintendos "heavy hitters" already out. With those odds out NOW, i can only dread the future.

And reviews are not a serviceable guage IMO because 9/10 are biased in some way, shape or form.

 

[Square-enix]

i can name about 15-20 good wii games and about 60 bad ones and thats with 90% of nintendos "heavy hitters" already out. With those odds out NOW, i can only dread the future.

And reviews are not a serviceable guage IMO because 9/10 are biased in some way, shape or form.

Do it...name bad games...like any console does not have garbage

 

[Red Exodus]

It doesn't matter how many bad games a console has, only how many good games and reviews aren't meant to be a 100% accurate guide to how good a game is, I've enjoyed games that have gotten around 4.0 and I have hated games that have gotten 8.0 and 9.0.

Reviews will always be biased. A good game from 20 years ago stands no chance against a good one from the present, factors like time and competition will always create bias, the only bias that is necessarily bad would be personal bias, but that hardly comes up in the reviews I see.

 

[Xyro77]

Do it...name bad games...like any console does not have garbage

yes but when majority of the games on a system are not good......thats not a good sign.

 

[knightzy]

in my appinoion most movie games are **** and not worth it,it also goes on what type of game you like and if the devaloper has a good reputation in that genre.....the wii does'nt have crap games you just don't like them,these"heavy hitters"do sell well you just hate them, go and get a ps3 or 360 if you dislike the selection on the wii.

 

[Wiseguy]

i can name about 15-20 good wii games and about 60 bad ones and thats with 90% of nintendos "heavy hitters" already out. With those odds out NOW, i can only dread the future.

ONLY 20 good games in a single year?! What a disaster! As everyone knows, the average consumer buys AT LEAST that many games in a single month. (That saw sarcasm, in case you missed it.)

In fact, having 20 games worth buying in a system's first year is fantastic. No consumer should care how many bad games there are, because you simply don't have to buy them.

And reviews are not a serviceable guage IMO because 9/10 are biased in some way, shape or form.

I ahve a hard time believing that. Obviously, I put more stock in certain reviews than others, as long as the review has someone giving their opinion it can't really be considered right or wrong. If the majority of reviews give a game perfect score, it might not be all that, but its pretty well certain to be a good game.

It doesn't matter how many bad games a console has, only how many good games and reviews aren't meant to be a 100% accurate guide to how good a game is, I've enjoyed games that have gotten around 4.0 and I have hated games that have gotten 8.0 and 9.0.

Reviews will always be biased. A good game from 20 years ago stands no chance against a good one from the present, factors like time and competition will always create bias, the only bias that is necessarily bad would be personal bias, but that hardly comes up in the reviews I see.

True that. I've disagreed with many a videogame review in my day. Reviews are just a tool, they aren't the be-all-and-end all. But if you can find a reviewer who is honest and with a similar taste in games as yourself, they can be extremely useful.

 

[Xyro77]

ONLY 20 good games in a single year?! What a disaster! As everyone knows, the average consumer buys AT LEAST that many games in a single month. (That saw sarcasm, in case you missed it.)

In fact, having 20 games worth buying in a system's first year is fantastic. No consumer should care how many bad games there are, because you simply don't have to buy them.



I ahve a hard time believing that. Obviously, I put more stock in certain reviews than others, as long as the review has someone giving their opinion it can't really be considered right or wrong. If the majority of reviews give a game perfect score, it might not be all that, but its pretty well certain to be a good game.



True that. I've disagreed with many a videogame review in my day. Reviews are just a tool, they aren't the be-all-and-end all. But if you can find a reviewer who is honest and with a similar taste in games as yourself, they can be extremely useful.

OK i guess im just looking into the future and your in the present. pkmn,zelda,metroid,mario,mario kart,smash are nintendos "heavy hitters" each system they dish out,right? Ok well if 4 of the 6 are out in its 1st year............i see problems ahead.

in my appinoion most movie games are **** and not worth it,it also goes on what type of game you like and if the devaloper has a good reputation in that genre.....the wii does'nt have crap games you just don't like them,these"heavy hitters"do sell well you just hate them, go and get a ps3 or 360 if you dislike the selection on the wii.

calm down, the wii is the ONLY system that i play. i enjoy it more than any other console i have. Im just mentioning what im woried about.

 

[Wiseguy]

OK i guess im just looking into the future and your in the present. pkmn,zelda,metroid,mario,mario kart,smash are nintendos "heavy hitters" each system they dish out,right? Ok well if 4 of the 6 are out in its 1st year............i see problems ahead.

You forget that series like Pikmin and Animal Crossing that Nintendo created in the Cube generation. Similarly, they'll eventually unveil some new franchises on the Wii that will get people excited. Reviving some of their forgotten franchises (Kid Icarus anyone) is also not out of the question.

 

[Chill]

AC was actually a port of a 64 game. Sadly Pikmin was the only new game created during the GC era ,at least as far as I know.

 

[Xyro77]

AC will do well, no doubt. i dont consider it a "heavy hitter" though(you will see why later down this post)

and to add to chill, pikmin did not do well. so seeing it return to wii isnt a big deal unless it is changed drasticly.

When i say "heavy hitters".........i mean games that are 100% promised to sell 1 million units or more and have had a history of selling huge amounts. And the only "heavy hitter" to not reach the 1mil mark is PKMN battle rev. Now, to add a bit more......there are some "special" games that pop out of now where and sell a shiz load.......wii fit,wii play. Those games are great and i truly enjoy some thing NEW for once but they pop out few and far between.


This is all i mean. No attacks or anything. Im just a bit worried but not to the point where i cry at nite.

 

[Wiseguy]

AC was actually a port of a 64 game. Sadly Pikmin was the only new game created during the GC era ,at least as far as I know.

The N64 did not include an internal clock, so I'm pretty sure SOME of the development for AC occured in the Cube generation. But point taken.

However, Battaleon Wars and Chibi Robo were also made for the Cube, so there were a few new franchises here and there.

AC will do well, no doubt. i dont consider it a "heavy hitter" though(you will see why later down this post)

and to add to chill, pikmin did not do well. so seeing it return to wii isnt a big deal unless it is changed drasticly.

When i say "heavy hitters".........i mean games that are 100% promised to sell 1 million units or more and have had a history of selling huge amounts. And the only "heavy hitter" to not reach the 1mil mark is PKMN battle rev. Now, to add a bit more......there are some "special" games that pop out of now where and sell a shiz load.......wii fit,wii play. Those games are great and i truly enjoy some thing NEW for once but they pop out few and far between.


This is all i mean. No attacks or anything. Im just a bit worried but not to the point where i cry at nite.

I see what you're saying, but I have one caviate. Both Pikmin games sold over a million units and that was without the benefit of a character in Smash Bros. Just saying.

But yes, Nintendo needs to prove themselves by announcing some exciting stuff to keep gamers interested beyond 2008.

 

[Crimson King]

Reposting from Wii topic:
Wii purchased from Wal-Mart.com. They shafted us with taxes, but our pre-shafting price was $718, which included the Wii, a nunchunk/controller, a classic controller, Mario Party 8, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Mario Strikers, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Warioware, and some other game. I'll probably buy a few classic titles too. Not bad overall.

With my top of the line PC, my PS3, and now a Wii, I am set.

 

[Wiseguy]

Not a bad deal. Except that they made you buy Mario Party 8, which is just about the worst game ever for anyone over the age of five. All the other games you mentioned are solid.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Not a bad deal. Except that they made you buy Mario Party 8, which is just about the worst game ever for anyone over the age of five. All the other games you mentioned are solid.

You might want to look back on that.

Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles.

Not really a bad game per se, around the 6.5 rank.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't care about ratings; I love Zombies and anything related to them.

 

[Red Exodus]

*Imagines a Zombie family*

I'll try out RE:UC next year, after I get my guitar gear, a cell phone and a 360.

 

[knightzy]

yes re:uc dose sound good i will have to wait though.