The New Console Debates

[Wiseguy]

I don't think Brawl and WiiFit are enough to carry the console through the whole year, much like Halo 3 and Bioshock isn't enough to carry the 360 through the whole year. The more quality games the better, it doesn't matter if Brawl and WiiFit sell 19 million copies, if they're 2 of the few games worth getting the hype with die quickly after release.

See, here's where I disagree. The Wii's first year success was basically owed to two games: Wii Sports and Twilight Princess. The reason being that those two games (much like Brawl and Wii Fit) combined cover a much wider demographic than two games like Halo and Bioshock - which are targeted at the same audience. Not that those were the only two games that people bought, but that combination made the system a must buy for both core gamers and the casual folk.

When I say that Brawl and Wii Fit are going to carry the system through 2008 (at least until the next holiday season) I mean that core gamers will buy the system for Brawl while casuals will continue their demand for Wii thanks to Wii Fit. Having two system sellers that appeal to two distinct audiences will absolutely inflate hardware sales until the Wii is the ahead in Norther America and cements its lead worldwide.

 

[Cashed]

The Wii's first year of success was on the technology of the console, not the games. The console carried so much hype because of the motion controls and still does.

 

[Wiseguy]

The Wii's first year of success was on the technology of the console, not the games. The console carried so much hype because of the motion controls and still does.

I would argue that it was more the implementation of the technology INTO the games that made the system a hit. More specifically: people say Wii Sports and rushed out to buy it. The same will happen with the new technology of the Wii balance board.

A little game called Twilight Princess also drove sales for hardcore fans, much like Brawl will in 2008.

 

[S2]

The Wii's first year of success was on the technology of the console, not the games. The console carried so much hype because of the motion controls and still does.

Yeah, as a Wii owner since day one, I gotta say that most of the 1st year was barren of good games.

Zelda was great, but after that it was mostly shovelware and mediocre 3rd party titles until Fall of '07.

That's actually not much different than most consoles though. Many consoles have slow 1st years. Usually a big hit or two and then not much until game makers have some time to work with the final hardware (as many launch games tend to get made on early dev kits if not first party).

PS1/2/Xbox/360/N64/DS all had pretty slow first years, only to pick up later. Even in this gen, I felt the 360 was pretty much garbage gamewise until a year later when Gears came out. After that a floodgate of awesome games has pretty much been hitting that system since. I'm yet to pick up a 360 or PS3, but 360s tempting these days and PS3 is going to shine once MGS4 and some of the other big titles come out.


Wii is starting to look really good now, because it has a big number of popular and niche titles. But I remember being so psyched about Super Paper Mario last year because I'd been waiting for something to plug my Wii back in.

 

[Xyro77]

according to http://vgchartz.com the number of units SOLD(not shipped) are as follows:

Wii: 20.88 mil

XBOX 360: 16.82 mil

PS3: 9.76 mil


So still the wii is winning, but what will keep it going? No More Heroes, Brawl, Wii-fit, Mario kart but other than that im worried what will carry it thru 08.

Xbox360 is still in second place but it will get Devil may cry 4, GTA 4, ninja gaiden 2, Halo wars and some epic sports game. Great games but i dont see any truly "tide turning games" specialy since halo 3 didnt do much for console sales.

Ps3 is in a DISTANT 3rd but will get GTA 4, Devil may cry 4, Metal gear solid 4(i want to play this), and FF13. This will surely make PS3 gain ground. If only they do another price drop.

 

[blazer787]

I would argue that it was more the implementation of the technology INTO the games that made the system a hit.

that logic works both ways, good and horrid

Ps3 is in a DISTANT 3rd but will get GTA 4, Devil may cry 4, Metal gear solid 4(i want to play this), and FF13. This will surely make PS3 gain ground. If only they do another price drop.

price is what keeps me from getting a ps3, when they lower it again i'll more than likely buy it.

 

[Wiseguy]

Yeah, as a Wii owner since day one, I gotta say that most of the 1st year was barren of good games.

Zelda was great, but after that it was mostly shovelware and mediocre 3rd party titles until Fall of '07.

That's actually not much different than most consoles though. Many consoles have slow 1st years. Usually a big hit or two and then not much until game makers have some time to work with the final hardware (as many launch games tend to get made on early dev kits if not first party).

PS1/2/Xbox/360/N64/DS all had pretty slow first years, only to pick up later. Even in this gen, I felt the 360 was pretty much garbage gamewise until a year later when Gears came out. After that a floodgate of awesome games has pretty much been hitting that system since. I'm yet to pick up a 360 or PS3, but 360s tempting these days and PS3 is going to shine once MGS4 and some of the other big titles come out.


Wii is starting to look really good now, because it has a big number of popular and niche titles. But I remember being so psyched about Super Paper Mario last year because I'd been waiting for something to plug my Wii back in.

I couldn't agree more. You summed that up nicely.

according to http://vgchartz.com the number of units SOLD(not shipped) are as follows:

Wii: 20.88 mil

XBOX 360: 16.82 mil

PS3: 9.76 mil


So still the wii is winning, but what will keep it going? No More Heroes, Brawl, Wii-fit, Mario kart but other than that im worried what will carry it thru 08.

Nintendo has promised us Animal Crossing and Kirby before the year is through, but here are some niche 3rd party stuff that isn't getting much press. Namely: Monster Hunter 3, Okami Wii and FF: Crystal Bearers.

that logic works both ways, good and horrid

In what way, specifically?

 

[Crimson King]

Twisted Metal for PS3 has been announced. I'm content now.

 

[Square-enix]

I hope for the other Zelda for Wii at half or end of 2008, since Zelda TP was a port of the gamecube...they have to make a new game

 

[Wiseguy]

I hope for the other Zelda for Wii at half or end of 2008, since Zelda TP was a port of the gamecube...they have to make a new game

You are dreaming, dude. After the long wait for TP I'd be shocked if we get a new console Zelda before 2010. A new Pikmin game, however, could be out before year's end (fingers crossed).

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Twisted Metal for PS3 has been announced. I'm content now.

Man, I need a PS3

 

[Chill]

If Nintendo hasn't shown footage for a game yet there's no way it's coming out this year. It's just the way Nintendo is. Kirby might, might, maybe possibly, kind of has a very,very small chance of releasing this year. Other than that...

 

[Wiseguy]

If Nintendo hasn't shown footage for a game yet there's no way it's coming out this year. It's just the way Nintendo is. Kirby might, might, maybe possibly, kind of has a very,very small chance of releasing this year. Other than that...

Nintendo needs a crowd pleaser for the holiday season, and they have already confirmed Animal Crossing Wii for 2008. I would bet anything we'll see something in the way of gameplay at GDC. That Gamecube Kirby game has been in development for a small eternity, so that's not unlikely to come out this year. Pikmin, however, is just my wishful thinking...

 

[Cashed]

Weren't Kirby and Animal Crossing confirmed for Japan in 2008 and that's it?

 

[Wiseguy]

Weren't Kirby and Animal Crossing confirmed for Japan in 2008 and that's it?

Yes, but I'd be surprised if AC didn't come out in North America as well - probably on that magical month of November. That's when they've always released a big first party game since the dawn of time.

As for Kirby... what is there really to localize?

 

[Xyro77]

the games i mentioned were confirmed ones. i didnt want to bring in "maybe in 08" games.

but honestly, i looking forward to SoCal 4.................

 

[Chill]

I know they confirmed it for 08. They also confirmed Brawl for a Wii launch title. Then they confirmed a summer 07 release. They also confirmed that it would be releasing Dec 3rd. They confirmed that it would then be releasing Feb, 10th. You see where I'm going with this?

 

[Cashed]

I believe you're heading to March 9th with it.

 

[Wiseguy]

Point taken. But I've got a good feeling about this one. Call me a hopeless optimist.

 

[Chill]

You are a hopeless optimist.

 

[Wiseguy]

Thank you.

Anyway, one thing Wii owners can definitely look forward to this year is Rock Band: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/31/ea-fesses-up-rock-band-coming-to-wii/ Judging by Guitar Hero 3 sales on the console, it should be a pretty huge hit.

 

[S2]

Let's just hope Rock Band isn't going to be the scaled down PS2 version.

That game was basically made to have lots of downloadable expansion, the PS2 version was cut down heavily because of this.

Wouldn't really be a problem though if Nintendo used common sense and released a hard drive.

 

[Cashed]

I'm going to call it now, it'll be a port made by some small company (much like the Wii GH3 port) and it will be gimped. It'll have online play, but will not have downloadable content and of course, will not have 5.1 audio.

 

[RDK]

The best thing Nintendo could do for the Wii is give it a bigger hard drive.

That, or make the online less crappy.

 

[Wiseguy]

I'm going to call it now, it'll be a port made by some small company (much like the Wii GH3 port) and it will be gimped. It'll have online play, but will not have downloadable content and of course, will not have 5.1 audio.

Don't be too sure. Activision is allegedy going to start allowing GH3 dowloads to be stored on SD cards. And once you have some healthy competition going between the RB and GH both sides will have no choice but to start treating the Wii as one of their primary skews given the GH3 sales numbers last year.

But yeah, a hardrive would definitely make that more of a certainty...

 

[S2]

The simple fact is that companies either make games for Wii or as 360/PS3 games. When something comes out for all 3, usually the Wii verion is a gimped afterthought with some motion control.

There are some exceptions, but for the most part - when devs make games primarily for PS3/360 and then port it down - usually quality suffers a lot. Wii's best experiences are games built from the ground up for the system.

It's not a bad guess that the Wii version of Rockband will be inferior in some way.

As Wii gains more steam, maybe we'll see companies putting more care into their Wii games.

 

[Wiseguy]

The simple fact is that companies either make games for Wii or as 360/PS3 games. When something comes out for all 3, usually the Wii verion is a gimped afterthought with some motion control.

There are some exceptions, but for the most part - when devs make games primarily for PS3/360 and then port it down - usually quality suffers a lot. Wii's best experiences are games built from the ground up for the system.

It's not a bad guess that the Wii version of Rockband will be inferior in some way.

As Wii gains more steam, maybe we'll see companies putting more care into their Wii games.

I agree with you on this. As long as RB is developed cross platform the Wii version will be great, but not AS great as the 360/PS3 version.

The obvious solution would be to devlop a version of Rock Band specifically for the Wii console. It would be nice to see them try and squeeze out Rock Band 360 quality visuals by pushing the console, work within Nintendo's restrictions to make the most competent online experience possible and hopefully throw in some unique content like Nintendo songs/characters.

So yeah. Probably a slightly watered down (but still enjoyable) Rock Band port this year. But if its a huge success (ie: it will be) maybe they'll put more work into a more console specific 2009 version.

 

[Cashed]

Though this discussion seems much more fit for the Rock Band thread itself, I'll continue to bite. Don't be expecting any major unique content for the Wii version. Rock Band has you great your own character, so Nintendo characters themselves, not going to happen. You can hold onto hope that a "Mario Cap" will be a hairstyle available in the game, but you aren't going to get actual Nintendo franchise characters. Songs. The songs in Rock Band are required to have lyrics. You'll be hard pressed to find some Nintendo songs with lyrics.

 

[Wiseguy]

Fair points, but not insurmountable. One could simply give players the option of choosing either the create-a-character feature or a Nintendo character. Pretty simple.

As for the song thing, that's trickier. But I suppose they could always write humourous lyrics for classic Nintendo tunes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJznXQ5w3OE or have some songs that take advantage of one or two instruments ala Guitar Hero. Yeah, its a pipe dream. But EA would be smart to consider it, as it would definitely rally Nintendo fans to a 3rd party property in a big way.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Um, I disagree. Mario in Rock Band would make me throw up and never even consider buying the game. Just IMO.

 

[Wiseguy]

Bah! Next you'll tell me you don't want a Mario Kart-style versus mode in the game where you mess up your opponent's music with turtle shells and the like...

 

[Square-enix]

You are dreaming, dude. After the long wait for TP I'd be shocked if we get a new console Zelda before 2010. A new Pikmin game, however, could be out before year's end (fingers crossed).

I follow this logic:

Nes:

-The Legend of Zelda: August 22, 1987
-Zelda II Adventure of Link: December, 1988

(About a year between releases)

Snes:

- The Legend of Zelda - A link to the Past: April 13, 1992

GB:

- The Legend of Zelda - Link's Awakening: December 31, 1993

N64:

- The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time: November 23, 1998
- The Legend of Zelda - Majora's Mask: October 26, 2000

(About 2 years between releases)

GBC:

- The Legend of Zelda - Oracle of Ages/Season: May 14, 2000

NCG:

- The Legend of Zelda - The Windwaker: March 24, 2003
- The Legend of Zelda - Four Swords Adventures: June 7, 2004
- The Legend of Zelda - Twilight Princess: December 11, 2006

(One year between releases, then 2 years)

GBA:

- The Legend of Zelda - The Minish Cap: January 10, 2005

Wii:

- The Legend of Zelda - Twilight Princess: November 19, 2006

Note: I didnt add remakes, and re-releases, such as bonuses discs.


So...whats the point? Every console that has 2 or more Zelda games have no more than 2 years between releases. Like tloz and aol, oot and mm, ww, fsa and tp gamecube version.
Now, TP for Wii is a port, means that Wii has no original or new game for it (don't count Link's Crossbow Training) and so it was released on 2006, its about time to have a new Zelda for Wii, thinking of the logic of '2 years between releases'.
So Im not dreaming, Im thinking of what Nintendo has done - continues releases of zelda's games.

 

[Wiseguy]

You forgot to add:

DS:

- Zelda Phantom Hourglass - November, 2007


Anyway, you did a great job of tracking down all that info, but if you're anticipating the next 3D console Zelda, then the 3D console games are the only ones that matter:

- The Legend of Zelda - Ocarina of Time: November 23, 1998

(2yrs)

- The Legend of Zelda - Majora's Mask: October 26, 2000

(3yrs)

- The Legend of Zelda - The Windwaker: March 24, 2003

(3yrs)

- The Legend of Zelda - Twilight Princess: December 11, 2006


As you can see, the wait between 3D console Zeldas is always 3 yrs (except MM, which reused many of the character models, enemies ect. from OoT's engine). By that logic, we'd see the next one in 2009 unless they reuse TP's engine (which wouldn't be a bad idea). Personally, I think Nintendo will announce a next Zelda this year, but there is zero chance of three new Zeldas in three years.

 

[blazer787]

you forgot CDI ones. and if the next zelda is as crapy and eassy as TP, count me out.

 

[Crimson King]

Also, weren't the Gameboy, GBA, and DS games outsourced? Those wouldn't count if so.

 

[Cashed]

Let's get down to the nitty gritty. Wiseguy and Square-enix, you guys are in a "debate" topic (debate in quotes because this topic is so terrible) and you're discussing when the next Zelda game will come out. If you want to do that, do it elsewhere.

 

[Wiseguy]

With all due respect Cashed, its difficult to debate the merits of the three consoles without talking about the software libraries of each console. In this case, we were talking about whether the games available for the Wii in '08 would be enough to guarantee its continued success. Whether or not that '08 lineup includes a big franchise like Zelda is completely relevant to this topic.

 

[knightzy]

i see what you mean wiseguy,but if they were going to relese one it would be 2009 there is already a good line up of games,mario kart,animal crossing,brawl etc. do i have to list em'all no i dont you get the point,what cashed means is to discuss it in a zelda thread or make one,sure this thread will talk about games but dont go to in-depth.

Edit:yay!!!!!! 50 posts.

 

[Square-enix]

you forgot CDI ones. and if the next zelda is as crapy and eassy as TP, count me out.

I didnt forgot, I did it on purpose...

Why? Because for me, and for many people those doesnt count. Do anyone here own a CD-i?

Well...whatever the case...

To Wiseguy: You are right, I forgot Phantom Hourglass, which could reaffirm my position as the 'big' zelda games (its in 3rd) are released between this and that amount of time. I repeat: Wii doesnt have its own zelda yet, so it needs one this year to help sales with the other games.

 

[Wiseguy]

i see what you mean wiseguy,but if they were going to relese one it would be 2009 there is already a good line up of games,mario kart,animal crossing,brawl etc. do i have to list em'all no i dont you get the point,what cashed means is to discuss it in a zelda thread or make one,sure this thread will talk about games but dont go to in-depth.

yay!!!!!! 50 posts.

Yeah, I agree that the Wii's lineup is already pretty great. That's why I think as long as they deliver Animal Crossing as their big holiday release they don't really need a new Zelda.

And yes, I'll try to keep my points more general in the future.

To Wiseguy: You are right, I forgot Phantom Hourglass, which could reaffirm my position as the 'big' zelda games (its in 3rd) are released between this and that amount of time. I repeat: Wii doesnt have its own zelda yet, so it needs one this year to help sales with the other games.

When has there ever been a Zelda that was released the same year it was announced? In my estimation: never. Animal Crossing is just as much as a big seller as Zelda, and its really all they need this holiday to maintain the momentum of Brawl, Wii Fit and Mario Kart.