The New Console Debates

[Zink]

That idea has good and bad pints, but the main downside is that there is no competition and thus less improvement.

 

[maelstrom218]

Love may be a strong word......nah. I just love Nintendo's releases and a lot of their products that they are a part of. As a gamer, I was raised on Nintendo and they have always given me a great game to play when I am in need of one. They have yet to fail me to this day, so I am going to support them as well as they have me.

It's more accurate if you defined your feeling of "love" as being fueled by nostalgia.

The reason why Nintendo has been so successful for the most part is due to the fanbase that it created in the mid-80s when Nintendo was the only serious gaming company available as opposed to the multipolar game companies today. B/c of the fanbase that it created then, current 20-something-year-olds pledge allegiance to Nintendo--not b/c their games are good (although they are) but b/c the company represents a significant facet of their childhood experience.

Nostalgia, whether you admit it or no, is a powerful force. It's why franchise characters have existed for so long. Its why Soul Caliber II, for example, was highly successful on the Gamecube--not b/c fighting fans love the GC, but b/c the inclusion of Link made it infinitely more appealing.

I'd even claim that the reason why Nintendo is so resistant to change its "kiddy image" is that by producing games that are moderately kid-oriented (i.e. Wind Waker and its visuals) it can have a significant impact on the current young generation, and raise an entirely new generation of nostalgia-ridden youths that will follow the Nintendo legacy--not b/c of the games themselves, but b/c Nintendo reminds them of their childhood.

There's a reason why Nintendo recycles characters and motifs, and it's b/c they want to elicit that feeling of nostalgia as much as possible.

I think that Nintendo's greatest success lies not in its game production, but that its created a definable culture around its characters. Nintendo has long ago ceased to be a company, and stepped into the bound of cultural phenomenon. It's why you see Nintendo fanboys, but don't see such rabid and vehement followers of Sony or Xbox. Usually.

. . .of course, this theory fails to explain why younger people or latecomers to the videogame world are Nintendo fanboys when they haven't been exposed to the golden days of the 80's. . .my first videogame was FFVII (then Zelda: OoT), but my loyalty to Nintendo is just as strong as those influenced by the nostalgia of the 80's.

Intruiging, isn't it?

 

[Nite]

God, that was a beautiful explaination and you made a very great point about how Nintendo has memorable and many loved characters that the other companys can't offer as well as they can. You are very right about how Nintendo reminds classic gamers of their childhood and that is why they run back to and look forward to Nintendo products. Nice job.

 

[Zink]

Almost poetry. Good points. Don't forget that it is hard to be nostalgic about a game like GTA. "Ahh, I remember in my youth I used ot run random people over and shoot their heads off, just for the fun of it... the good old days."

 

[zarbityugi]

HAHA! Brilliant points all around! Actually, that's probably why I like nintendo so much. It has memories associated with it. Halo (MS, if you were born yesterday) does too, but it's not the same. There's just something different. to add to what Zink said, it's hard to be nostalgic about lots of game genres. FPS's and racing games, for two. But I and some other people would go over to each other's houses and play RPG's "together" (it actually isn't boring, as long as you switch every so often; better w/ just two people), and those memories are with me still. That's why I still play Super Mario RPG when I go to my grandparents' house (they have the SNES). It isn't the best game I've ever played, but I can reminisce as I play it. A great feeling, indeed...

 

[Crimson King]

Almost poetry. Good points. Don't forget that it is hard to be nostalgic about a game like GTA. "Ahh, I remember in my youth I used ot run random people over and shoot their heads off, just for the fun of it... the good old days."

That's just plain fanboyism. I played with about 10 friends in GTA:SA until 3 am and we had a blast. The two-player co-op made it a blast to play. It's just your opinion that it can't generate fun memories.

 

[Chill]

I know what you mean. Whenever I get nostalgic about something it's mainly because of who I was doing it with not what I was doing. When I get nostalgic about SMB3 its not about the first time I got a leaf. It's about the hours I spent playing with my family and friends. Of course some of it has to do with game but mostly it's from anything but. This applies to any game in any genres, theme, or rating. Anyone playing GTA can still have as much fun as someone playing some other game.

Read the post above CKs for an example of this.

 

[Crimson King]

Nintendo is in a good position now with the announcement of the classic games. HOWEVER, They need to create a good marketing strategy for it to be successful. For example, I know I won't want to buy games that are 10+ years older for ANY price, as I stated previously, and I am sure a good bit of the population will not either. It's not how much it costs, it's the principle. Also, Nintendo HAS to realize the market is children under 18 who probably won't have a credit card and usually couldn't buy stuff online. They have to corner that whole market.

 

[Chill]

They should introduce gift cards like Apple and Microsoft. That way anyone can buy games. As of now the only game I want is SMRPG. I never got to experience the greatness of that game. Plus I can see how lame Boshi is.

The price of games should be pretty low. I don't want to check the store and see 64 games selling for $20.

Watch out CK your getting close to 5,000 post.

 

[Crimson King]

I know!

They games should be under a dollar, but the principle of the matter is, why should I pay ANYTHING for something that I may own already, but can't play due to a broken SNES. Also, if I am buying a $299< game console I want to play games that look worth the money.

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Speaking of GTA, some of my fondest memories would have to be playing GTA2 with a whole bunch of friends at school...we still do it at lan parties, for old time's sakes...the greatest memories of all have to be playing both Descent 1 and 2 throughout my high school years (that's 5 years) with my entire graphics class...we even managed to get some teachers involved a few times...and then there was turning on my 64 for the first time...good times...

Like I said before, marketing marketing marketing marketing, and going about it the right way. If Nintendo can do this, they have the potential to attract the current generation of gamers. Given their record with the Cube, I don't know if they will be sensible this time or not, but I guess we will have to wait to see what will happen at E3...they had bloody well better reveal the controller shell design...

 

[Super Nova]

I find it pretty bad that Nintendo fans are demanding this controller shell.

I, also, find the remote to be just a gimmick at this point. It's almost an innovation for the sake of innovation. Hopefully, it proves fruitful. But I am sticking with 360 for now.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

no, that's saying we like both methods. some games might be better with the shell, like fighters, but they could still have revolution gyroscopic sensitivity.

In addition, if a dev wants to put a good game on all three systems, we don't want nitnedo getting left out.

There are also games that will be awesome with the revmote/nunchucku, like FPS's.

SO demanding a shell isn't saying we don't like the revmote, its saying we like options in gaming, as well as good multiplatform games.

 

[Super Nova]

Personally, I hate gimmicks that interfere with the actually gameplay. Ie the Virtual Boy.

Until I can play a Revolution, i don't see myself giving in so easily to the Nintendo propaganda.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

are you ********. the rev controller doesn't interfere with the gamelplay at all. In fact its quite the opposite, it defines the gameplay. That's what nintendos been talking about for the last 10 months.

 

[commonyoshi]

anyone know if americans will get japanese exclusive games? how about GBA games?

 

[kaid]

Virtual Console games will be regon free, but handhelds will not be available.

 

[Super Nova]

are you ********. the rev controller doesn't interfere with the gamelplay at all. In fact its quite the opposite, it defines the gameplay. That's what nintendos been talking about for the last 10 months.

Proof you are just following their propaganda. They said it would. OF COURSE THEY WOULD, but have you played it? No. So this topic is pointless, because ALL we played was the 360. Everything else is purely speculation.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

propaganda is something to get you to buy their system right?

well-we know most of the controllers functionality, correct? therefore, we can come up with ideas of how it will work. If we like what we think of, then why shouldn't we like the system? They also gave demos of functionality at TGS, so you could see how it worked.
They modded Metroid prime to work with the rev, and guess what? it worked not only well, but i t looked incredibly fun as well.

ANd if you still think it'll end up being just an annoying side effect, we will be seeing demos of games at E3 then. If they all play with the shell, and little rev functionality, you'll be correct, if as is more likely, the gameplay of most games is centered around the revmote, then you will be utterly, horribly wrong.

one other thing. you say we've fallen for their "propaganda" because we like the revmote? Then you've fallen for the xbox360 propaganda. Instead of saying "propaganda", say marketing. because that's what it is. Therefore, your world is FILLED with propaganda, but you choose to say nintendo's the only one doing. YOU ARE A MORON. EVERY COMPANY IN EXISTENCE SAYS THEIR PRODUCT IS BETTER AND GIVES REASONS WHY. DOes that mean the product is better? No. BUt you can't apply it to one company like I said. Microsoft says the 360 is better, Nintenendo says the REv is better essentially. Xbox360 could well take the lead over the Ps3 and the Rev, and the rev could fail miserably and leave everyone except diehard fans dissapointed. Course, the Rev could just as easily wipe the floor with the 360. We don't know until the other consoles arrive.

Know what everyone except nintendo fans said about the DS when it was unvailed? And what many PSP fans still insist? Practically the same as you, that the DS isn't innovative, its just annoying. Guess what? ds is outselling the PSP.

 

[Super Nova]

The PSP sold 15 million worldwide as of January and the DS sold 14 million.

You were kind of all over the place there. Let me go point by point.

A. I never said I was buying a 360. I said right now, they have sold me because they did what Nin and Sony can't do and that's show games.

B. Nintendo has stated that their controller will change everything, but hasn't showed too many games actually displaying this. I am sure they have games lined up because if they didn't, they would be shooting themselves, but I want to see some action demos of how it will work. Even a Zelda mock up would be great to show what it's capable of.

Why are you so offended when I point out my opinion? Nintendo is paying you to do it or anything, you are paying them.

 

[Mic_128]

Super Nova's entitled to her opinion, and I think she's right. People panicking about how the things going to ruin games, or how it's going to be the best evar when no one's even seen it in use with an actual game yet.

 

[Megachuk]

The total sales is as follows:

1,801,275 DS units compared to 844,607 PSP units sold worldwide.

There.... I'm not taking sides, I'm just posting the facts.

 

[kaid]

B. Nintendo has stated that their controller will change everything, but hasn't showed too many games actually displaying this. I am sure they have games lined up because if they didn't, they would be shooting themselves, but I want to see some action demos of how it will work.

Retro Studios demonstrated the controller with a modified version of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. The general consensis of those watching (and playing) was was that it was very natural- Moreso than the double-joystick of Halo or the Lock-On of Echoes itself.

As for actual, playable demos of real nextgen games... you need to wait for E3 like everyone else. Nintendo has been playing things close to it's chest since the Rev was announced- last E3, Microsoft and Sony were throwing around numbers (PS3 will have 1% of the power of the human brain! Wooo!) and Nintendo simply smiled and nodded, confident that they held all the wildcards.

 

[Super Nova]

I just typed into google and I read DS was closer to 16 million and PSP as of December was closer to 10.

I guess no site can really come to an agreeance.

Also, I'm a girl?

 

[Chill]

The total sales is as follows:

1,801,275 DS units compared to 844,607 PSP units sold worldwide.

There.... I'm not taking sides, I'm just posting the facts.

Those aren't facts. Maybe the were sometime early last year.

 

[zarbityugi]

Even if those aren't the numbers now, do you really think that the PSP could catch up 1,000,000 units in a year? probably not.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

whoops, double post. guess accidents happen.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

SN, okay, its hard to tell, but this is the closet I can come to sales

Market Share
As of December 31, 2005, 15.03 million units of the PSP have been shipped[1], however the amount of units sold is unknown because Sony does not publish sales figures, while more than 15 million units of the Nintendo DS have been sold. In Japan, the Nintendo DS outsells the PSP almost 3.5 to 1[23], but figures outside of Japan are unknown.

so its apparently impossible to tell. However it is more likely that the DS is outselling because the PSP probably hasn't sold every system its shipped. These also might be a little out of date, and although the page was upadtaed today, i'm not sure if they actually double checked everything on the page.

I do believe the PSP is outselling the DS in the US, but the DS has the lead everywhere else.

heres the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Portable

Well enough of numbers and guesswork.

 

[Cashed]

ChRed2AKrisp, don't post if your argument is going to be "YOU ARE A MORON."

 

[Chill]

DS: over 15 million.

PSP: over 8 million.

I just thought it was funny that the numbers given only put the DS at over a million sold.

 

[Crimson King]

Finally broke through that barrier. Posting again now.

It doesn't really matter how much each sold because the handheld is a pretty small market overall.

I wish there was more portablility between the DS and GCN and PSP and PS2 so I actually have a reason to spend the money on either.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

cashed, that was actually a side comment. my argument was, you know, the other 12 or so sentances in the post. if you choose to pick one thing and so that makes my argument null, so be it.

and the handheld market is small? You know, the gba/sp/micro has sold over 70 million units? the PS2 has sold a bit over 100 million. That's about 70% of the most popular systems sales. I'd say that the handheld market is pretty significant. Especially when you consider tha not only are there now 2 competing handhelds, but they are both increasingly popular, much more so than the gba when it first came out. Handhelds are a large part of the VG market.

 

[Crimson King]

Not necessarily. 70 million for one handheld, 16 million for another, and 10 million for another means that chances are that 70 million made up the whole thing. The fact is I can't justify the purchase of a handheld when most long trips, I drive. I don't really want to spend the money on mini-games.

 

[Cashed]

cashed, that was actually a side comment. my argument was, you know, the other 12 or so sentances in the post. if you choose to pick one thing and so that makes my argument null, so be it.

I'm glad you understand.

 

[Mic_128]

The fact is I can't justify the purchase of a handheld when most long trips, I drive. I don't really want to spend the money on mini-games.

Handhelds are a lot more than just "minigames". Some games (ie FF Tactics Advance) have incredable ammounts of play time. In fact, some of the best RPG's are on handhelds. And what of games like Mario Kart, Metroid hunters, GTA Liberty Stories? They aren't "mini games", and with handhelds being online, their becoming less and less "mini".


And it's easier to play a DS in bed then a PS2.

 

[commonyoshi]

i like handhelds. they may not be as impresive as the console games but u can take them with u to stupid events like plays and weddings. these games are cheap and offer a lot. with the increasing popularity, i wouldnt be surprised if the handhelds sonld more than the consoles. OK, yes i would but u know what i mean.

 

[Crimson King]

And it's easier to play a DS in bed then a PS2.

That's an opinion, mic, that you are displaying as fact. I have wireless controllers for all of them and can play them just as easy laying down.

 

[zarbityugi]

Consoles are way better than handhelds, except for the portable-ness of the handhelds (portability?). If it were as easy to take my GCN on the road as it is to take my DS on the road, I wouldn't have a DS. Or a GBA. But the simple fact that it isn't makes a handheld almost a necessity. and on the "handheld games are minigames" point, no. Granted, some handhelds are simply remakes of console games (nearly all PSP games, quite a few DS games), but others are good in their own little ways. Advance Wars, for one. That is probably the best handheld series I've ever played. It has so much replayability that you won't notice you beat the game X number of times. Well, with the difficulty that it has, you might, but probably not. but I digress. There are a number of handheld games that I would buy a handheld specifically for. There are more console games that fit that description, but you have to give handhelds some credit.

 

[Mic_128]

That's an opinion, mic, that you are displaying as fact. I have wireless controllers for all of them and can play them just as easy laying down.

I semi-agree with you. Sure, it's posible to play a PS2 in bed, but if you want to switch games, you've got to sit up, you need to have the TV on the right channel, ect ect.

 

[McFox]

All I know is, I can't wait for New Super Mario Bros.