Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Wait what? You can lag cancel dair?
-
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The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms
- Thread starter Fox Is Openly Deceptive
- Start date
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,386
...yes lol. Just like all stall&fall dairs (sonic for example). You just gotta be high enough.
MJG
Smash Hero
Hyro: He is talking about that one day when Jash came in and said not to call it "BBQ" because it sounded like food (or something like that). He posted it on this thread awhile ago.
@TWiNK: I've found this before, the only thing is that you need to be on a stage that has a really high vertical blast zone other wise you need to use it beside the stage (as you said). That and I can see it being pretty risky especially if your opponent has seen you do it before.
That said, as risky as it sounds, it might be useful against characters who are really good at juggling us, so if you just want to get back down, I spose it couldn't hurt.
Still not entirely sure about it though, but it's good to know all your options, so thanks for sharing it with us.
@Hyro: Fair enough then. As soon as I've posted this, I'll go through the list and change B-reversal to Wavebounce and I'll even add the real B-reversal (I'm not sure why it wasn't there in the first place.) Thanks again for telling me.
As for the BBQ thing. Here's the quote from Jash.
Edit: Ok I think it's all done, but please let me know if there's anything I've missed. (And yes, I used the Control F thing this time XD)
That said, as risky as it sounds, it might be useful against characters who are really good at juggling us, so if you just want to get back down, I spose it couldn't hurt.
Still not entirely sure about it though, but it's good to know all your options, so thanks for sharing it with us.
@Hyro: Fair enough then. As soon as I've posted this, I'll go through the list and change B-reversal to Wavebounce and I'll even add the real B-reversal (I'm not sure why it wasn't there in the first place.) Thanks again for telling me.
As for the BBQ thing. Here's the quote from Jash.
So RQS it is until further notice. I've got no choice in the matter.
Edit: Ok I think it's all done, but please let me know if there's anything I've missed. (And yes, I used the Control F thing this time XD)
@ all
NEW TECHNIQUE?
FTBS - Forward Throw Bomb Slide
Is that already known?
Credit would be go to .sibe from the German Community.
I´m not sure, if that is already know, so please give me response if it is correct
NEW TECHNIQUE?
FTBS - Forward Throw Bomb Slide
Is that already known?
Credit would be go to .sibe from the German Community.
I´m not sure, if that is already know, so please give me response if it is correct
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
I haven't seen that before, looks cool. Does it work at any percent? Set distance? Can we combo out of it at all?
I'm gonna test this out a lot when I get back to my apartment
I'm gonna test this out a lot when I get back to my apartment
I heard that the timing is very difficult, i will try to combo out of this now!
Edit:
After this technique i could add a additional attack like a down smash, but its very difficult and the timing is very hard to do...
After all:
I tried this with backthrow and i must say its better than this technique. But the timing is similar like the other technique. If the bomb is falling down and you perform a backthrow, after the bomb is explosion your opponent is stunned for a second and you can make a free hit o,o
btw Toon Links Grab Game is very mysterious, but i will tell you about this later
haha try to perform that xD Its very difficult to handle this timing, i could do a dsmash after this technique
Maybe you can do a upsmash too. But its very hard to perform xDA) Bomb falling Timing
B) Start the THROW
C) During the slide you cant do anything , so you have to react very fast, if you can move your char, so you have to react very fast to do an hypen smash. xD I tried this with dsmash... dont know if it works against normal oponent but it worked against a cpu
I think it works on any %... not sure have to test on very high % like 50 +
Holy shiz!!! That looks sweet as. (Yeah it's new btw, nice work!)
I'm gonna go test stuff and then add it. If we find more uses for it after I've added it, then obviously I'll add them as well. But yeah, (off to go test stuff......)
.....
.....
So does the Bomb need to interupt the hitboxes? What I mean is, with the F-throw, it hits them twice, the first hit does 3% and the second does 4%. Judging from the fact that Falco ended up on 10% and the Bomb does 7%, well you do the math XD. But that doesn't explain why it works for B-throw.... back to the drawing board.
(The timing is really hard. I'm not even sure what it is yet.)
.....
Ok so in my quest to find an easier way to do this, I found a way. If you just want to test stuff or see it happen, go to training, go into items and select a Bo-bomb, then walk a bit forwards (very importaint, if you're too far away from the bo-bomb, you will also get hit by the explosion after the slide) grab you opponent and immediately F-throw. You only have a bit of time to F-throw otherwise the Bomb starts to walk and bad things happen. But yeah, this will work every time. It also confirms my suspitions about the whole Back throw thing, from what I've seen, it doesn't exist because I haven't been able to make Toon slide once while back throwing (but I could be wrong, although I'd like to see evidence of the B-throw version working.)
Anyway, if you're thinking what I thought, then no, it can't be used with Z-dropped bombs because we can't explode them. For that matter, it also doesn't work on opponent Toon's Z-dropped Bombs either. It also doesn't work with Slope Bombs (But it might work with opponent Toon's slope Bombs, but who cares?)
The good news is, it works with Snakes Nades!!! So if Snake shield drops a nade and you Grab him, simply F-throw into the nade and this shiz works! Could be quite useful.
As for using our own bombs and doing it consistently, well that's another matter. I'll have to keep trying. Until then, I don't think I'll add this tech yet, simply because I have no idea what the timing is to get this to work with our bombs.
What needs to be done still?
Well I've found a way to re-create the slide consistently with the help of a bo-bomb, so we should do some tests on the slide itself.
We need to find the exact timing of the way demonstrated in the vid.
We need to find a better way to do it using our bombs.
We need to see what (if any) follow ups can be done and do we have a better chance of follow ups on certain chars and percents? (I think we do)
We also need to explain what the hell is going on here/why does it even happen. I've got a rough idea, but nothing is certain atm.
Have fun testing guys. I'll be doing some more later on, so let me know what you find.
I'm gonna go test stuff and then add it. If we find more uses for it after I've added it, then obviously I'll add them as well. But yeah, (off to go test stuff......)
.....
.....
So does the Bomb need to interupt the hitboxes? What I mean is, with the F-throw, it hits them twice, the first hit does 3% and the second does 4%. Judging from the fact that Falco ended up on 10% and the Bomb does 7%, well you do the math XD. But that doesn't explain why it works for B-throw.... back to the drawing board.
(The timing is really hard. I'm not even sure what it is yet.)
.....
Ok so in my quest to find an easier way to do this, I found a way. If you just want to test stuff or see it happen, go to training, go into items and select a Bo-bomb, then walk a bit forwards (very importaint, if you're too far away from the bo-bomb, you will also get hit by the explosion after the slide) grab you opponent and immediately F-throw. You only have a bit of time to F-throw otherwise the Bomb starts to walk and bad things happen. But yeah, this will work every time. It also confirms my suspitions about the whole Back throw thing, from what I've seen, it doesn't exist because I haven't been able to make Toon slide once while back throwing (but I could be wrong, although I'd like to see evidence of the B-throw version working.)
Anyway, if you're thinking what I thought, then no, it can't be used with Z-dropped bombs because we can't explode them. For that matter, it also doesn't work on opponent Toon's Z-dropped Bombs either. It also doesn't work with Slope Bombs (But it might work with opponent Toon's slope Bombs, but who cares?)
The good news is, it works with Snakes Nades!!! So if Snake shield drops a nade and you Grab him, simply F-throw into the nade and this shiz works! Could be quite useful.
As for using our own bombs and doing it consistently, well that's another matter. I'll have to keep trying. Until then, I don't think I'll add this tech yet, simply because I have no idea what the timing is to get this to work with our bombs.
What needs to be done still?
Well I've found a way to re-create the slide consistently with the help of a bo-bomb, so we should do some tests on the slide itself.
We need to find the exact timing of the way demonstrated in the vid.
We need to find a better way to do it using our bombs.
We need to see what (if any) follow ups can be done and do we have a better chance of follow ups on certain chars and percents? (I think we do)
We also need to explain what the hell is going on here/why does it even happen. I've got a rough idea, but nothing is certain atm.
Have fun testing guys. I'll be doing some more later on, so let me know what you find.
Lobos
Smash Master
How much does TL's throw dmg do? is it 7%? Do you have to turn and grab for this to work?
If I can just grab people and throw when the bomb lands then there is a way you can set this up with a forward jump cancel bomb throw ^.^
If I can just grab people and throw when the bomb lands then there is a way you can set this up with a forward jump cancel bomb throw ^.^
TL's throw does 7% damage all up, but it kinda does it in two hits. The first hit does 3% and the second does 4%.
Anyway, some kinda bad news about this whole thing to make it a bit more situational. You need port priority. Yeah. Remember the old Faux super armour? (Btw, we should call this tech the Faux super slide or something. But I'm going off track.) It means that for example, if you wanted to do this the easy way against a Snake player (Snake drops a nade, you grab him and then the F-throw hits the nade = instant win XD), in order to do that now, you need to have the right port. So if the Snake is Player 1, you can be Player 2, 3 or 4 and it will work. If the Snake is Player 2, you can be Player 3 or 4. If the Snake is Player 3, you can be Player 4. If not, it won't work, like ever.
After making this discovery, I know understand this slide a lot more. I believe that it is normal faux super armour (you still recieve damage, you don't recieve knockback, you are only unable to move as long as the grab break animation lasts), only you get the initial boost of the F-throw. You may have noticed in the F-throw that Toon moves forwards. Well, I reckon that if Toon is interupted by an explosive while he is moving forwards up until the first hit box comes out (the three percent) he will do a sort of sliding faux super armour (faux super slide XD). It's either that, or more impossible still, you need to be interupted at the exact moment that the 3% hit box hits, which is pretty much impossible with our bombs, but dead easy with things like the opponent's nades.
I may as well add that sliding off an edge of a platform or a stage, while cool, will not shorten the amount of time you have to wait before you can act. This whole tech thing has an extremely high chance of comboing. When you think about it, with faux super armour, you have an advantage already and are able to combo. But with the sliding faux super armour, you (if they get blown in the same direction as you, which is normal) you have an even higher chance of comboing because you are actually moved closer to where they are about to land. It's awesome.
Anyway, some kinda bad news about this whole thing to make it a bit more situational. You need port priority. Yeah. Remember the old Faux super armour? (Btw, we should call this tech the Faux super slide or something. But I'm going off track.) It means that for example, if you wanted to do this the easy way against a Snake player (Snake drops a nade, you grab him and then the F-throw hits the nade = instant win XD), in order to do that now, you need to have the right port. So if the Snake is Player 1, you can be Player 2, 3 or 4 and it will work. If the Snake is Player 2, you can be Player 3 or 4. If the Snake is Player 3, you can be Player 4. If not, it won't work, like ever.
After making this discovery, I know understand this slide a lot more. I believe that it is normal faux super armour (you still recieve damage, you don't recieve knockback, you are only unable to move as long as the grab break animation lasts), only you get the initial boost of the F-throw. You may have noticed in the F-throw that Toon moves forwards. Well, I reckon that if Toon is interupted by an explosive while he is moving forwards up until the first hit box comes out (the three percent) he will do a sort of sliding faux super armour (faux super slide XD). It's either that, or more impossible still, you need to be interupted at the exact moment that the 3% hit box hits, which is pretty much impossible with our bombs, but dead easy with things like the opponent's nades.
I may as well add that sliding off an edge of a platform or a stage, while cool, will not shorten the amount of time you have to wait before you can act. This whole tech thing has an extremely high chance of comboing. When you think about it, with faux super armour, you have an advantage already and are able to combo. But with the sliding faux super armour, you (if they get blown in the same direction as you, which is normal) you have an even higher chance of comboing because you are actually moved closer to where they are about to land. It's awesome.
- Joined
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Is this worth fighting for the controller ports for? As far as I know, it's just a slide. A really cool looking slide. You give bomb damage, throw damage, and emotional damage.
Does this have any true follow ups? What finishes first, and by how many frames? The sliding animation, or the stun? Does anything special happen when you do it in the edge, or any other place? For example, would TL slide off a platform, or would he just stay?
Does this have any true follow ups? What finishes first, and by how many frames? The sliding animation, or the stun? Does anything special happen when you do it in the edge, or any other place? For example, would TL slide off a platform, or would he just stay?
Ok so the slide has a set amount of stun for us, but snakes nades stun and knockback will increase with his damage (depending on a few other things, but in general, yeah). So what I'm saying is, we should have more time to combo as his percent increases, until it is so high that he simply gets blasted out of range.
As for fighting for the contoller ports, I definitely think it's worth us having player 4, even if we never use this trick because otherwise, the snake will just use it against us. That and we don't exactly need grab priority.
You'd need two people to test if you have any true follow ups, but if no-one can do that, then I'll do my usual solo testing which can be really tricky and aggravating trying to control them both at the same time.
On the edge, as I think I already mentioned, Toon simply slides off but isn't able to do anything any earlier then normal. So he stays in 'faux stun' the same amount of time, no matter what you do (including slide as it would seem). Obviously, this still needs to be tested more and stuff, so I'll keep everyone posted if I find anything else.
As for fighting for the contoller ports, I definitely think it's worth us having player 4, even if we never use this trick because otherwise, the snake will just use it against us. That and we don't exactly need grab priority.
You'd need two people to test if you have any true follow ups, but if no-one can do that, then I'll do my usual solo testing which can be really tricky and aggravating trying to control them both at the same time.
On the edge, as I think I already mentioned, Toon simply slides off but isn't able to do anything any earlier then normal. So he stays in 'faux stun' the same amount of time, no matter what you do (including slide as it would seem). Obviously, this still needs to be tested more and stuff, so I'll keep everyone posted if I find anything else.
MJG
Smash Hero
I don't think this particular AT at the moment is worth fighting for the controller ports. Any match would be in your favor to fight for the 4th port anyways >_>.
Good stuff fox. I wonder if this will actually be beneficial
<3 bombs
Ok so the tech is up including it's vid. Tell me what you think, all that.
Tbh, I wasn't sure where to put it, I could have put it in the Bombs section, but where? I decided in the end that I should put it where all the other grab techs are, in the general section. I figured it's more of a grab tech then a Bomb tech because it's to do with the F-throw being interupted by an explosive resulting in a sliding Faux super armour which is also a grab thing. So that's where you'll find it.
So until next time, let me know if you notice anything strange or if there's something you can't re-create or explain. The usual.
Tbh, I wasn't sure where to put it, I could have put it in the Bombs section, but where? I decided in the end that I should put it where all the other grab techs are, in the general section. I figured it's more of a grab tech then a Bomb tech because it's to do with the F-throw being interupted by an explosive resulting in a sliding Faux super armour which is also a grab thing. So that's where you'll find it.
So until next time, let me know if you notice anything strange or if there's something you can't re-create or explain. The usual.
Corpsecreate
Smash Lord
This isnt exactly a new technique, more of a new application for an already existing technique. The Upsmash with Bomb in hand (run towards a bomb thats on the floor then DACUS) can also be done by short hop --> take out bomb --> drop bomb --> DACUS
Why am I posting this? I dunno, it works though!
Why am I posting this? I dunno, it works though!
If you're talking about dropping the Bomb safely on the ground then DACUS, then this is the same thing, but if you're talking about catching the Bomb with a DACUS before the Bomb touches the ground (before it explodes, in other words you're dropping the Bomb higher then normal) then I knew about this from the Link mainers. They had to find this way of performing it because they can't bomb drop normally (unless they have a platform or are near the edge), so yeah, it works, but it's a harder variation of something that we Toon's can do easily anyway. Still, I'd be fine with adding it if other people also think it's worth adding.
I'm not sure why you want that, but none of that matters right now because I like the name as well. All the same, I don't think I should completely replace it, so how about I put Reverse BCAT (Jerk) or Reverse BCAT/Jerk (or something like that). It's the best I can do. At least that way, people can refer to it as either the Reverse BCAT or the Jerk and everyone will know what they mean.
And since when do you come in here demanding things anyway XD? All you had to do was ask XD.
lol hyro
And since when do you come in here demanding things anyway XD? All you had to do was ask XD.
lol hyro
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
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- 7,048
Lmao, I second this.
MJG
Smash Hero
- Joined
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- 10,050
>_> Hyro's a jerk.
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
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Ok this is happening then. I'm adjusting the name.
Edit: Done.
Edit: Done.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
Alright I've messed around with the iZAC for a while and I've never been able to figure out the timing. I can do it in training mode if I slow it down a bit, but never in full speed. When do you have to hit the attack button? I'm assuming it must be buffered somehow, since whenever I press a immediately after z, nothing happens
Kaffei
Smash Hero
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Oh, that's easy. I'll go try it later. Thanks Hyr000000000
What Hyro said. I thought I had specified that in the description, I hope I did, (goes to check) oh my gosh, I'm sorry about that copacetic. I'll fix that now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention man. I should really read through more often to check for mistakes like that.
copacetic
Smash Journeyman
Thanks Hyro!
I just switched x to grab and it was a lot easier. Apparently my z button sticks
I just switched x to grab and it was a lot easier. Apparently my z button sticks
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
ima try this
Ok so how about some discussion about my second post. I'm not going to force it XD, but I'm bored and no-ones posting.
So going from the top, the first thing to talk about is Toon's weaknesses, and the first one on the list of them is getting back on stage (not getting back to stage, but once you've already grabbed the ledge, you want to get up, someone's there, what now?)
So what are our options? I figure if we can think of enough legit options, then this should no longer be seen as a weakness. (maybe you don't see it as a weakness, if so, do tell.)
Something I reckon is pretty safe is hitting away from the edge, dropping for a split second, Double jump towards the edge and Fair, instantly DI away from the edge just as the hitbox comes out then Instantly Snap back onto the edge with Zair (Hit Z twice really quickly). So what you are aiming for is to only be near the edge within reach of them when the hit box is out. When it's starting, you should be away from the edge then jumping towards the edge, then when the hit box comes out you want to make sure the Fair just touches where the opponent is standing on the edge (sort of nick the shield) and then Instantly DI away to avoid punishment and of course Zair snap. The reason? Well according to Rudger's thread of frame data, Fair has the most frame advantage when used in the air of all our aerials. So it's the safest to hit their shield with. Other then that, I've been using this for a little while now, and although it's not perfect, it's pretty close. So this is definitely a legit option.
Another one, to mix it up with the last one, Hit away from the edge, wait a split second, double jump towards the edge, Fair and instead of DIing away, instantly Nair. You can either land on stage with Nair or use Nair off stage then recover with Up-B or if you're quick you can instantly Zair after the Nair. This is good against people that try to powershield the Fair then instantly grab the ledge. Not that great if they shield the whole thing, but if used sparingly, that won't happen. (I should just quickly add that ofcourse, when using Zair on the edge, make sure you don't use it more then 3 times.)
There are of course many, many, more situational methods that to some extent, rely on the element of surprise. Such as after using a ledge option and getting back to the edge using Zair, instead of tapping Z twice to snap to the edge, tap it three times for a surprise ledge attack (only to be used under 100% because it's quicker). Or the Uair stall through stage. It's great if they don't see it coming, but sucks if they do. Bombs? Well you could try, but the hard part is pulling them out safely on the edge. Try to pull out a Bomb from the edge without fast falling as it lets you keep your Up-B and is therfore safer. But even then, Bombs are mostly used to cover the weakness of pulling them out. You pull out a Bomb, you throw it up to stop the opponent from hitting/stage spiking you. How about Boomerangs? They are great to use if the opponent has something that out ranges Fair by jumping away from stage and throwing it back at the edge, the only problem with rangs is they have to be used far from stage otherwise they'll be punished and if they're shielded, you could be in trouble because you're either close enough to grab the edge without using Up-B and you'll get punished, or you're far enough away to not get punished but are then forced to use Up-B, which isn't the safest thing in the world.
So discuss! If you don't think what I have suggested is legit, then by all means correct me. Like I actually want you to correct me because that way we'll get that much closer to finding better options. Do you have a better way? What method do you rely on when on the edge? Did I miss anything? Let's figure this out, then we'll eventually move on to something else.
So going from the top, the first thing to talk about is Toon's weaknesses, and the first one on the list of them is getting back on stage (not getting back to stage, but once you've already grabbed the ledge, you want to get up, someone's there, what now?)
So what are our options? I figure if we can think of enough legit options, then this should no longer be seen as a weakness. (maybe you don't see it as a weakness, if so, do tell.)
Something I reckon is pretty safe is hitting away from the edge, dropping for a split second, Double jump towards the edge and Fair, instantly DI away from the edge just as the hitbox comes out then Instantly Snap back onto the edge with Zair (Hit Z twice really quickly). So what you are aiming for is to only be near the edge within reach of them when the hit box is out. When it's starting, you should be away from the edge then jumping towards the edge, then when the hit box comes out you want to make sure the Fair just touches where the opponent is standing on the edge (sort of nick the shield) and then Instantly DI away to avoid punishment and of course Zair snap. The reason? Well according to Rudger's thread of frame data, Fair has the most frame advantage when used in the air of all our aerials. So it's the safest to hit their shield with. Other then that, I've been using this for a little while now, and although it's not perfect, it's pretty close. So this is definitely a legit option.
Another one, to mix it up with the last one, Hit away from the edge, wait a split second, double jump towards the edge, Fair and instead of DIing away, instantly Nair. You can either land on stage with Nair or use Nair off stage then recover with Up-B or if you're quick you can instantly Zair after the Nair. This is good against people that try to powershield the Fair then instantly grab the ledge. Not that great if they shield the whole thing, but if used sparingly, that won't happen. (I should just quickly add that ofcourse, when using Zair on the edge, make sure you don't use it more then 3 times.)
There are of course many, many, more situational methods that to some extent, rely on the element of surprise. Such as after using a ledge option and getting back to the edge using Zair, instead of tapping Z twice to snap to the edge, tap it three times for a surprise ledge attack (only to be used under 100% because it's quicker). Or the Uair stall through stage. It's great if they don't see it coming, but sucks if they do. Bombs? Well you could try, but the hard part is pulling them out safely on the edge. Try to pull out a Bomb from the edge without fast falling as it lets you keep your Up-B and is therfore safer. But even then, Bombs are mostly used to cover the weakness of pulling them out. You pull out a Bomb, you throw it up to stop the opponent from hitting/stage spiking you. How about Boomerangs? They are great to use if the opponent has something that out ranges Fair by jumping away from stage and throwing it back at the edge, the only problem with rangs is they have to be used far from stage otherwise they'll be punished and if they're shielded, you could be in trouble because you're either close enough to grab the edge without using Up-B and you'll get punished, or you're far enough away to not get punished but are then forced to use Up-B, which isn't the safest thing in the world.
So discuss! If you don't think what I have suggested is legit, then by all means correct me. Like I actually want you to correct me because that way we'll get that much closer to finding better options. Do you have a better way? What method do you rely on when on the edge? Did I miss anything? Let's figure this out, then we'll eventually move on to something else.
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I was about to make a thread with pretty much any combination of ledge recoveries known to Toon-kind.
Another pretty cool way to recover is with an iBomb recovery. Basically, what you would have to do is find a way to get on the stage facing away from the stage. In FD, you can wall jump under the stage, jump, and as you're approaching the edge, iBomb.
The reason you have to approach backwards is because the bomb will most likely fall of the stage if you did it the regular way.
I haven't tested this BTW.
EDIT: Won't work like this. The best way to do an iBomb recovery is to Instant Wall Jump, but that sends you really high. Not safe.
Another pretty cool way to recover is with an iBomb recovery. Basically, what you would have to do is find a way to get on the stage facing away from the stage. In FD, you can wall jump under the stage, jump, and as you're approaching the edge, iBomb.
The reason you have to approach backwards is because the bomb will most likely fall of the stage if you did it the regular way.
I haven't tested this BTW.
EDIT: Won't work like this. The best way to do an iBomb recovery is to Instant Wall Jump, but that sends you really high. Not safe.
Wait what? So, you iBomb back on stage, I get that, oh, so you want to return facing away from stage because the Bomb is dropped slightly behind Toon. Ok, I can work with that. So how about you do an Instant Wall Jump, Pull out a Bomb, DI back on stage and then when you think you need to (depending on what the opponent does, do they approach, do they stay there) you iBomb. Well that could work. Interesting. Edit: Doesn't work XD. The Bomb Pull takes too long so by the time it's over it's too late to DI back towards stage. This does work however if you already have a Bomb, but that brings us back to the old problem, how to pull out a Bomb on the edge safely.
I'll look into using the iBomb to recover and actually test some stuff because that was all just theory. Thanks for the contribution TWiNK.
I'll look into using the iBomb to recover and actually test some stuff because that was all just theory. Thanks for the contribution TWiNK.
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You should pull out the bomb before you Instant Wall Jump. The Wall Jump sends you up pretty high, but away from the stage.
In Battlefield it can be done pretty nicely. In two ways.
1) If you drop down, Jump, Wall Jump the bottom of the slant at the edge, you can go slightly up and away from the stage. Once you're up, you can start moving towards the edge, and once you come near your awaiting enemy, just iBomb.
2) While holding on the ledge, lightly pull out a bomb (don't fast fall the bomb pull). Once the bomb is out, instantly Wall Jump the bottom of the slant, approach, and iBomb when needed.
It's pretty hard to do, and just air dodging on stage is probably better. I'm just gonna keep on testing random stuff because I can't sleep.
And obviously, in stages with a floor that you can go through (Halberd, Delfino), you can just jump from under the stage and iBomb.
In Battlefield it can be done pretty nicely. In two ways.
1) If you drop down, Jump, Wall Jump the bottom of the slant at the edge, you can go slightly up and away from the stage. Once you're up, you can start moving towards the edge, and once you come near your awaiting enemy, just iBomb.
2) While holding on the ledge, lightly pull out a bomb (don't fast fall the bomb pull). Once the bomb is out, instantly Wall Jump the bottom of the slant, approach, and iBomb when needed.
It's pretty hard to do, and just air dodging on stage is probably better. I'm just gonna keep on testing random stuff because I can't sleep.
And obviously, in stages with a floor that you can go through (Halberd, Delfino), you can just jump from under the stage and iBomb.
Nice testing TWiNK! (Also, check out my edit in the previous post)
I really like the second one.
So can we think of a safer way of Bomb pulling on the edge other then the slowly falling one? Because even that has it's disadvantages. Like because it's slowly falling, if an opponent reacted fast enough or predicted it, they could drop off stage after you and you could be within reach of some nasty stuff.
Edit: I mean, there's always the fast falling one, but that is too easy to edge guard even without predicting or reacting fast. Even if we throw the Bomb up at them (which defeats the purpose of it, seeing as we were just trying to pull out a Bomb) they can still get to us if they know what they're doing. Or maybe I'm underestimating it.
I really like the second one.
So can we think of a safer way of Bomb pulling on the edge other then the slowly falling one? Because even that has it's disadvantages. Like because it's slowly falling, if an opponent reacted fast enough or predicted it, they could drop off stage after you and you could be within reach of some nasty stuff.
Edit: I mean, there's always the fast falling one, but that is too easy to edge guard even without predicting or reacting fast. Even if we throw the Bomb up at them (which defeats the purpose of it, seeing as we were just trying to pull out a Bomb) they can still get to us if they know what they're doing. Or maybe I'm underestimating it.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Did you know that you can do the bomb recatch after a wall jump? Just saying.
I love flan.
I love flan.