sMoke4jointz
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2010
- Messages
- 10
why are u going to ban a stage because of a single character's disadvantage? that sounds pretty dum to me
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asianaussie
Smash Hero
Agreed.
Also, unless the Ness likes to short hop and linger over holes, it's not that big an issue as to ban it for him. He can make use of the walls pretty well. His own powerful spike is also more useful than it normally is.
Dark Samus on Kongo Jungle. Online. With a poor graphics plugin.
Invisible charge shots and super gay camouflage.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
For the Saffron Ness problem... why not pick another character? If someone plays only Ness, then it's their fault. Ness being bad on that stage shouldn't be a reason to ban it. Look at melee/brawl Rainbow Cruise. Some characters are god awful on that stage. It's still a legitimate counterpick stage.
DemonicInfluence
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 512
I like the stage striking idea. It should be used.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I think that DSR definitely has to be in effect but only for counterpick stages. If you have a best of 5 set it'd be extremely stupid for someone to counterpick to Peach's Castle twice. Just imagine getting counterpicked to Mute City by Peach twice in the same set...
T1g3rbombz
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2009
- Messages
- 284
I vote myself Admin...thx
D
Deleted member
Guest
this guy is pretty smart
Sensei
Smash Lord
Rules are meant to be broken
I introduced the idea of stage striking a while ago (my last tournament). However, I included all 5 stages for stage striking (minus zebes). I used to have DSR in effect at my earlier tournaments, but then I think it was Isai who convinced me not to have that rule because there weren't enough stages for that. For reference, here is the rule-set I used at my last tournament "Smashageddon."
Saffron should be CP. It is very easy to avoid the pits with Ness. Plus if the ness player really wanted to, he could stage strike it, but it could still be used as a CP later on.
MK, Yoshi's, Sector Z are auto banned.
Nintendude had an interesting idea of stage striking only the three "neutral" stages (Hyrule, DL, Congo). In my opinion, it does not really matter whether you stage strike all the stages or just those three "neutral" because in the end, you are still left with one stage that the players should be more satisfied with since each of them stage striked at least two stages. If you include zebes, then one player will have striked three stages (you can counter this by allowing the first player to strike one stage, the second player stage strikes two stages, then they continue stage striking as normal with one stage at a time until one stage is left.
In regards to DSR, as great and wise as the words of Isai are, DSR is ultimately up to the Tournament Organizer because technically there enough stages, even in a 5 game set because there at least 5 viable stages, 6 if you include zebes, and DSR does not carry over into the second set if there is one.
. But if is your tournament, you can do whatever you want 
If anybody is curious I found the original thread on DSR posted by the rule maker himself.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=45193
I introduced the idea of stage striking a while ago (my last tournament). However, I included all 5 stages for stage striking (minus zebes). I used to have DSR in effect at my earlier tournaments, but then I think it was Isai who convinced me not to have that rule because there weren't enough stages for that. For reference, here is the rule-set I used at my last tournament "Smashageddon."
I've thought about using Planet Zebes in the past as a CP, but I decided that the lava was a little too random of hazard, but as I now think about it more, it is not that different as the tornado in hyrule (only more frequent and covering a larger area). Zebes is definitely debatable and is ultimately the choice of the Tournament Organizer.
Saffron should be CP. It is very easy to avoid the pits with Ness. Plus if the ness player really wanted to, he could stage strike it, but it could still be used as a CP later on.
MK, Yoshi's, Sector Z are auto banned.
Nintendude had an interesting idea of stage striking only the three "neutral" stages (Hyrule, DL, Congo). In my opinion, it does not really matter whether you stage strike all the stages or just those three "neutral" because in the end, you are still left with one stage that the players should be more satisfied with since each of them stage striked at least two stages. If you include zebes, then one player will have striked three stages (you can counter this by allowing the first player to strike one stage, the second player stage strikes two stages, then they continue stage striking as normal with one stage at a time until one stage is left.
In regards to DSR, as great and wise as the words of Isai are, DSR is ultimately up to the Tournament Organizer because technically there enough stages, even in a 5 game set because there at least 5 viable stages, 6 if you include zebes, and DSR does not carry over into the second set if there is one.
As much as I would love to agree with you, I would like to be as unbiased as possible and allow the players to have the right to CP a stage, no matter how "dumb" it is
. But if is your tournament, you can do whatever you want If anybody is curious I found the original thread on DSR posted by the rule maker himself.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=45193
Nintendude
Smash Hero
I'm not saying it's dumb cause it's a weird stage. I'm saying it's dumb cause some characters have ridiculously awful matchups there and it's unfair for them to be subjected to it twice in 1 set. It'd be stupid to allow Ness to be cp'd to Saffron twice in 1 set as well. If you have a best of 5 set without DSR then in some cases a player will only have to win once between the initial neutral and his opponent's cp and then win twice on the same counterpick stage. Again, think about how stupid it'd be if a Peach were allowed to go to Mute City twice in the same set.
rpotts
Smash Lord
If they won on it once they can clearly overcome the disadvantage/adjust their play. It would be a lot harder in teams to avoid the pits than in 1v1, though.
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Just because we have 6 neutral stages available in a best of 5 does not mean we must force people to go on 5 of those 6 stages. I disagree with including DSR, simply on the basis that it ends up forcing both players to go on a stage they both don't want due to many other stage options being removed, and leaving only few options available late in the set.
rpotts
Smash Lord
I thought DSR was only for the last stage you won on, so you could always pick from atleast 5 stages
ballin4life
Smash Hero
I thought black falcon on congo was bad but wow dark samus is like 10000x worse
rpotts
Smash Lord
yep, she's basically invisible on the background, falcon's black is a little grayer, doesn't blend in quite as much.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
I think saffron should be banned due to helipad camping =/
Lawrencelot
Smash Lord
Stage striking is best, whether it's with 5 or 3 stages doesn't matter much, 5 is a bit fairer yet also makes it possible that the first stage is a 'weird' stage.
I prefer Zebes over Saffron because of camping possibilities, but I don't play those stages enough to have a good opinion.
I prefer Zebes over Saffron because of camping possibilities, but I don't play those stages enough to have a good opinion.
Thino
Smash Master
I never knew people had problem seeing dark characters on Congo Jungle , does everyone have that?
Mushinronsha
Smash Cadet
I really feel that the lava on Zebes can't be compared to the tornado in Hyrule. The lava essentially reduces the entire level to a small, small, small platform and can incapacitate whomever touches the lava first. It boils down to the players trying to survive the lava instead of outsmarting their opponents. The tornado can kill, yes, but it certainly doesn't affect the entire stage, and players can work avoiding (or using!) it into their strategies.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
If it only applies to counterpicks then they certainly do not have to play on 5 different stages. Dreamland and Hyrule are decent counterpicks for many matchups anyway.
Kefit
Smash Journeyman
Stage thoughts:
Dreamland definitely isn't neutral. It's retardedly broken for Falcon, Pikachu, and possibly some others. All of the small stage are pretty badly skewed in this way, though Kongo is probably the least skewed of the bunch.
Kongo's a weird-*** stage though. The barrel saves people who should have died, and the angled slopes on the main platform screw me up to no end. It's probably more neutral than Dreamland, though I think that Falcon can be just as broken on both stages.
Larger stages are better for balance, but they have problems too. Hyrule's basically the best we've got, and even it has issues (gee Fox, I'm sure impressed that you can run away from me and shdl for ten minutes without getting bored).
Of the remaining large stages, Zebes is the best and really should be played more. Sure, the acid is annoying, but at least it can be seen coming and it forces the players to interact in close quarters. For me, at least, the acid is not nearly as rage-inducing as being thrown into an off-screen tornado that neither player knew was there. Even considering the acid, Zebes is a lot better than the never-ending camper's wet dream known as Saffron.
Speaking of Saffron, I don't get why Ness players whine about it so much. Against a competent opponent, most of the characters in the game are dead if they get stuck in a pit, third jump or not. And if you end up in the pit it's your fault anyway. Also, the pokemon are usually a non-issue.
Rules thoughts:
As my thoughts on the individuals stages suggest, stage selection in this game in general is a problem when the goal is to create fair matchups. Additionally, any stage that is not Hyrule or Dreamland is highly likely to be weird to at least one player.
Honestly, I think that Hyrule should be the default neutral stage, used for the first game in every match unless both players agree otherwise. It's the most balanced stage, as demonstrated by the fact that all of the good players I know spend most of their time there when playing friendlies. Stage striking will just result in things like every Pika vs Fox match starting on a weird stage that is less balanced for the match than Hyrule would have been.
I'd add DSR on top of that to make sure that shdl camping Foxes and air camping Kirbys/Jigglypuffs have to beat their opponent on at least one non-Hyrule stage in order to take the match.
Dreamland definitely isn't neutral. It's retardedly broken for Falcon, Pikachu, and possibly some others. All of the small stage are pretty badly skewed in this way, though Kongo is probably the least skewed of the bunch.
Kongo's a weird-*** stage though. The barrel saves people who should have died, and the angled slopes on the main platform screw me up to no end. It's probably more neutral than Dreamland, though I think that Falcon can be just as broken on both stages.
Larger stages are better for balance, but they have problems too. Hyrule's basically the best we've got, and even it has issues (gee Fox, I'm sure impressed that you can run away from me and shdl for ten minutes without getting bored).
Of the remaining large stages, Zebes is the best and really should be played more. Sure, the acid is annoying, but at least it can be seen coming and it forces the players to interact in close quarters. For me, at least, the acid is not nearly as rage-inducing as being thrown into an off-screen tornado that neither player knew was there. Even considering the acid, Zebes is a lot better than the never-ending camper's wet dream known as Saffron.
Speaking of Saffron, I don't get why Ness players whine about it so much. Against a competent opponent, most of the characters in the game are dead if they get stuck in a pit, third jump or not. And if you end up in the pit it's your fault anyway. Also, the pokemon are usually a non-issue.
Rules thoughts:
As my thoughts on the individuals stages suggest, stage selection in this game in general is a problem when the goal is to create fair matchups. Additionally, any stage that is not Hyrule or Dreamland is highly likely to be weird to at least one player.
Honestly, I think that Hyrule should be the default neutral stage, used for the first game in every match unless both players agree otherwise. It's the most balanced stage, as demonstrated by the fact that all of the good players I know spend most of their time there when playing friendlies. Stage striking will just result in things like every Pika vs Fox match starting on a weird stage that is less balanced for the match than Hyrule would have been.
I'd add DSR on top of that to make sure that shdl camping Foxes and air camping Kirbys/Jigglypuffs have to beat their opponent on at least one non-Hyrule stage in order to take the match.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Saffron sucks. Stupid and very campy stage.
The only 4 tourney playable stages are Hyrule, Dreamland, Kongo Jungle, and Peach's Castle. Hyrule, Dreamland, and Kongo should be neutrals.
The only 4 tourney playable stages are Hyrule, Dreamland, Kongo Jungle, and Peach's Castle. Hyrule, Dreamland, and Kongo should be neutrals.
ballin4life
Smash Hero
I don't think DL is that broken for falcon because one mistake means he's dead
ballin4life
Smash Hero
Also ssb64 still needs it's own section ... even if it is only 2 forums
Blue Yoshi
Smash Master
Well... we could have a general forum, a video forum, and a competitive events forum. Three forums.... would that be enough for our own section?
ballin4life
Smash Hero
I don't care if it's one forum it should still have its own section.
malva00
Smash Master
this board should be called Super Smash Brothers Discussion
joined in 2002 and I have 2002 posts pretty cool
joined in 2002 and I have 2002 posts pretty cool
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
I think you guys should have your own boards. You guys aren't lesser than Melee and definitely not lesser than brawl so why are you guys being treated that way?
It would be cool to have Isai as a mod lol.
It would be cool to have Isai as a mod lol.
