The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[raphtmarqui]

I think WWlinks chances are 50/50

 

[kaid]

wuld anyone like to comment on the fact that between them, Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon had over half the movesets in Melee?

In Smash 64, they only had 5 out of 12, but that's still over 40%.

If we take Smash 64's lower numbers, and assume only 40 characters (half of them clones of their Melee selves) that still comes out to 16 characters to split between the big 3. That's an average of 5.333 ... using the most conservitive estimates. Throwing the Melee percentage onto the same numbers gives an average of just over 7 per major franchise.

Really, the point that almost half the characters in Brawl are basically "clones" of themselves is the big point in my thinking. Combined with the size of sakurai's team (meaning different parts of the team can be designing different characters at the SAME TIME) and the time they've had to do it, I am convinced that 40 characters is actually going to be a low estimate.

 

[Super Smash Master]

I think WWlinks chances are 50/50

Well, he COULD be in, but Link is already in the game. I don't know how much Sakurai would be willing to make another Link as a unique character. I doubt WWLink "excites" him the way other characters do. Say the way someone like the Ice Climbers do.

 

[Bassoonist]

Truth be told, we don't know anyone's chances. Sakurai does what he wants. Pokemon Trainer is a great example.

Of course there are characters we can say have a greater chance then others like King Dedede and Ridley. However we don't know their actual chances with Sakurai, and WW Link? I don't know that he'll be in honestly.

 

[brawlpro]

i'm just waitin till sonic's confirmed...and lucario(some ppl disagree)

 

[ClarkJables]

i disagree

 

[brawlpro]

i already know you do, who else!

 

[_the_sandman_]

Ok lets take our current list so far from Melee. There are 25 characters.

Now if we remove the clones we will get 19. Remove Marth since Ike is around and we get 18. Add in Falco and Ganondorf because they are likely to return with a new moveset. So from the Melee list we have 20 characters.

Everyone with me so far? 20 characters.

Now add in Pit, Wario, Zero Samus, Ike, Trainer, Metaknight, and Snake. That give us 7 more characters. Total of 27 characters that we know of.

Now lets add in some likely canidates and see how the list handles it.
27 characters
28. Sonic
29. Ray - Custom Robo
30. Krystal - Starfox
31. King Dedede - Kirby
32. Paula - Earthbound
33. Ridley - Metroid
34. Simon Belmont - Castlevania
35. Titania - Fire Emblem

That seems like a reasonable list for the moment. I mean 35 characters is quite a number. Not to mention the fact Sakurai would be adding 15 new characters and making 2 new movesets for Falco and Ganondorf, totaling for 17 new characters.

35 characters seem like a lot to me. 40 would be nice but I think an addition of 17 new characters could be enough. And I was fair about my list because I didn't add in Petey.

But lets increase it to 40 and see if we have to add any lame characters.

36. Isaac - Golden Sun
37. Slippy - Starfox
38. Captain Olimar - Pikmin
39. Lip - Panel de Pon
40. Jeff - Earthbound

There you have it! I managed to make up a list of 13 more characters WITHOUT using lame characters that are clone-like, or similar to other characters. I also didn't use any characters that are too unfamiliar with many fans. And of course, I used characters in my list that are of great importance to their series/franchise.

In other words, I didn't need to use a character like Lucario, WW Link, Starfy, Bowser Jr, or Wolf to make an interesting and fair character list. I'm sure Sakurai and his staff are capable of doing the same thing.

Seriously, you guys can have 20 new and unique characters in Brawl. Why would you want anything else less than that?

 

[brawlpro]

list isn't great but its aite...i want 50 characters but its really unlikely...i would want characters either 40-50, i'll be happy with that ammount!

 

[silver777]

Issac isn't a lame character.....

and did you forgot about Mother3..?

 

[Bassoonist]

Who said Isaac was a lame character? In my eyes he deserves a spot over any other character suggestion. XD

EDIT: Nevermind.

...

 

[brawlpro]

guyz, there are about 500+ characters we would want, don't expect one person to name all the ones you want...

 

[bloodvayne]

Zelda 1\ Zelda 2\Link's Awakening\LA DX\Link to the Past\GBA LttP\faces of evil\wand of gamelon\zelda's adventure

ocarina\majora\Oracle of Ages\Oracle of Seasons\Twilight Princess (updated graphics, still same look)

ww\ four sowrds\ four sowrds adventures\ minish cap \ phantom hourglass


the cel-shaded link isn't the most used style.

Fixed, and I'm including the LA DX GBA Lttp as a whole since you're including Four Swords as a whole

 

[_the_sandman_]

Issac isn't a lame character.....

and did you forgot about Mother3..?

I like Issac. That's why I put him in my list.

I didn't add in any Mother 3 characters because I still feel like Ness and his friends will be appearing in Brawl. Ness was in the first two games after all. And besides as much as I would like a psychic cowboy the Mother 3 characters are from a different game. Going back to my theory about how many character groups are in their particular style and game, it would be weird to mix Earthbound with Mother 3.

Plus, Mother 3 is Japan only.

 

[kaid]

Ok lets take our current list so far from Melee. There are 25 characters.

Now if we remove the clones we will get 19. Remove Marth since Ike is around and we get 18. Add in Falco and Ganondorf because they are likely to return with a new moveset. So from the Melee list we have 20 characters.

Everyone with me so far? 20 characters.

Now add in Pit, Wario, Zero Samus, Ike, Trainer, Metaknight, and Snake. That give us 7 more characters. Total of 27 characters that we know of.

Now lets add in some likely canidates and see how the list handles it.
27 characters
28. Sonic
29. Ray - Custom Robo
30. Krystal - Starfox
31. King Dedede - Kirby
32. Paula - Earthbound
33. Ridley - Metroid
34. Simon Belmont - Castlevania
35. Titania - Fire Emblem

That seems like a reasonable list for the moment. I mean 35 characters is quite a number. Not to mention the fact Sakurai would be adding 15 new characters and making 2 new movesets for Falco and Ganondorf, totaling for 17 new characters.

35 characters seem like a lot to me. 40 would be nice but I think an addition of 17 new characters could be enough. And I was fair about my list because I didn't add in Petey.

But lets increase it to 40 and see if we have to add any lame characters.

36. Isaac - Golden Sun
37. Slippy - Starfox
38. Captain Olimar - Pikmin
39. Lip - Panel de Pon
40. Jeff - Earthbound

There you have it! I managed to make up a list of 13 more characters WITHOUT using characters that are clone-like, or similar to other characters. I also didn't use any characters that are too unfamiliar with many fans. And of course, I used characters in my list that are of great importance to their series/franchise.

In other words, I didn't need to use a character like Lucario, WW Link, Starfy, Bowser Jr, or Wolf to make an interesting and fair character list. I'm sure Sakurai and his staff are capable of doing the same thing.

Seriously, you guys can have 20 new and unique characters in Brawl. Why would you want anything else less than that?

Slippy is universally hated by starfox fans. Mother was a cult classic, but it doesn't rate 3 characters. And the fact that every returning character that DOESN'T get a completely new moveset has all the benifits of being a clone, with none of the drawbacks.

You managed t make a list without the characters you hate... but you added characters other people hate and serously underestimated the potential totals.

 

[silver777]

O RLY?

Fixed, and I'm including the LA DX GBA Lttp as a whole since you're including Four Swords as a whole

dude....Ocarina =/= oracles =/= zelda3 =/= TP .......seriously.....

Zelda1/Zelda2

a link to the past/link's awakening

ocarina/majora

Oracle of seasons/Ages

WW/ four swords adventures / minish cap / phantom hourglass

 

[Royal]

Squirtles taunt should be him with his sunglasses.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Slippy is universally hated by starfox fans. Mother was a cult classic, but it doesn't rate 3 characters. And the fact that every returning character that DOESN'T get a completely new moveset has all the benifits of being a clone, with none of the drawbacks.

You managed t make a list without the characters you hate... but you added characters other people hate and serously underestimated the potential totals.

But Slippy is a classic character since the very first Starfox game.

But... I really don't want any clones. The list I have provided has characters that would be very hard to become clone-like.

Lip - Several attacks can have the "Lip's Stick" effect.
Isaac - Swordsman that uses magic
Krystal - New weapon, a staff
King Dedede - Floaty heavyweight with a mallet
Jeff - Inventor, can provide many wacky weapons
Simon Belmont - Whip, holy water, axes, etc.

All of the characters I have mentioned have key qualities to becoming unique. But Lucario on other hand can't really compare. I know you guys aren't the creators, as well as me. But exactly what could Lucario give us that these characters can't?

Well Lucario could be a fighter, but characters like Falco and Captain Falcon have that covered. Lucario could use energy attacks, but Ness and Mewtwo have that covered.

Again, what unique quality can Lucario give us that these characters couldn't?

 

[kaid]

News flash. Mario is a clone... of Mario. He is a clone of his melee self, stealing Doc's Fair, and possibly other details. The same goes for Fox, Bowser, Kirby, Pikachu, Peach, DK, Zelda and Link.

Clones are good, in that they take a fraction of the effort to make. And since there is only one of each moveset in Brawl, the downsides of clones don't come into play.

 

[_the_sandman_]

My point is, I only want one Mario. One Pikachu. One Kirby. And so on....

And I want every character to not only be unique, but I want them to offer something the other characters couldn't

Ike has a two handed sword. Pit has two blades, arrows, and wings. Wario has a motorcycle and gas. Etc.

I want every character to be different. So what I'm saying is that characters like Lucario wouldn't be able to introduce anything new to us. Think about it, exactly what would Lucario give us that no other character could? The answer? Nothing.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Everything has changed. Go to page one and find out how!

 

[brawlpro]

wow everything has changed...EVEN THE NAME!!!

 

[2007]

I don't mind a few similar characters. Not at all.
Now, however, with the addition of Pokemon Trainer, I think his chances were diminished.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Similar characters aren't too bad if they are like Samus and Zero Samus. Zero DID lose her suit after all, which contained all of her powers.

WW Link on other hand? He still has the sword and shield....


Sorry for the Double Post there.

 

[brawlpro]

why hasn't anyone put up a pic of adult link from ocarina...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Looking good there Link! Why do people tend to forget that he was an adult in some of the games? Oh well....

 

[Pluvia's other account]

People don't want Lucario in because:

1. They aren't ten no more, so Pokemon isn't cool
2. They aren't ten no more, so they don't know that Pokemon has come a long way since the Nineties
3. They had probably never heard of Lucario until they heard about people wanting him in Brawl
4. They don't like people talking about him so they make up things like he looks ugly yada yada

Basically, I haven't heard one good reason why they think Lucario shouldn't be added, I don't think I ever will.

P.S And you don't have to be ten to keep up to date with Pokemon, heck, even I can do it.

 

[2007]

wow, that is totally me, particularly #3.

Oh, and why hasn't Twilight Princess Link been put up?

 

[_the_sandman_]

People don't want Lucario in because:

1. They aren't ten no more, so Pokemon isn't cool
2. They aren't ten no more, so they don't know that Pokemon has come a long way since the Nineties
3. They had probably never heard of Lucario until they heard about people wanting him in Brawl
4. They don't like people talking about him so they make up things like he looks ugly yada yada

Basically, I haven't heard one good reason why they think Lucario shouldn't be added, I don't think I ever will.

P.S And you don't have to be ten to keep up to date with Pokemon, heck, even I can do it.

Lucario will probably be unable to provide a unique moveset. How can he managed to compare to Pit's, Wario's, Ike's, and Trainer's moveset? He can't. That's because he has nothing to offer.

Not to mention that Sakurai is going with the Red/Blue versions for playable characters. If I recall Lucario is from D+P, so it looks like he's out.

 

[brawlpro]

People don't want Lucario in because:

1. They aren't ten no more, so Pokemon isn't cool
2. They aren't ten no more, so they don't know that Pokemon has come a long way since the Nineties
3. They had probably never heard of Lucario until they heard about people wanting him in Brawl
4. They don't like people talking about him so they make up things like he looks ugly yada yada

Basically, I haven't heard one good reason why they think Lucario shouldn't be added, I don't think I ever will.

P.S And you don't have to be ten to keep up to date with Pokemon, heck, even I can do it.

umm... a good reason is that he looks like he can be a good fighter...he has the figure to do so.

wow, that is totally me, particularly #3.

Oh, and why hasn't Twilight Princess Link been put up?

well will it matter, if this makes you hapy then here ya go:

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Lucario will probably be unable to provide a unique moveset. How can he managed to compare to Pit's, Wario's, Ike's, and Trainer's moveset? He can't. That's because he has nothing to offer.

Not to mention that Sakurai is going with the Red/Blue versions for playable characters. If I recall Lucario is from D+P, so it looks like he's out.

Lucario is from the new generation, which has been out in Japan for about a year now I think.

That is more than enough time to add him, plus Sakurai probably knew Nintendo's plans to make him popular way before we did.

And not be able to make a unique moveset? You mean Sakurai? Or You.

I can't think of anyone Lucario would be a clone of. Ness? Mewtwo? Samus? Mario? Link? Peach?

Lucario has a whole array of move, plus he's REALLY popular if you haven't noticed. People don't want him in because of their own selfish reasons.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Squirtles taunt should be him with his sunglasses.

Or better yet... an alternate costume can allow the sunglasses to be an accessory on all three pokemon!

Lucario is from the new generation, which has been out in Japan for about a year now I think.

That is more than enough time to add him, plus Sakurai probably knew Nintendo's plans to make him popular way before we did.

And not be able to make a unique moveset? You mean Sakurai? Or You.

I can't think of anyone Lucario would be a clone of. Ness? Mewtwo? Samus? Mario? Link? Peach?

Lucario has a whole array of move, plus he's REALLY popular if you haven't noticed. People don't want him in because of their own selfish reasons.

Um any character can use fighting attacks and energy beams at this point. That wasn't the idea that I was getting it with Lucario. I'm sure Sakurai can come up with something for Lucario.

Pit has two blades, Wario has a motorcycle and gas, Ness has a bat and yo-yo, Samus has an arsenal of futuristic weapons, Link has an arsenal of medieval weapons, Mario has a cape, coin uppercut, and fire, Captain Falcon runs as mach speed and screams out his attacks, and DK has an entire moveset on raw power.

All of these characters, in fact, every character featured on the Brawl site have been able to intoduce something unique to the roster. No two characters have been similar or the same. And each one has been able to intoduce a unique style of attacks and abilities.

Lucario on other hand wouldn't introduce anything new to the roster. How can he compare to what the Newcomers have had to offer us? He is only based on fighting, which is something every character can do.

 

[Lupo Aro]

Have you heard of "fighting styles"?

 

[_the_sandman_]

Why have another "all fighting" character? DK and Captain Falcon have already filled that role.

Why not have more unique characters? Like Paula, Ray, Ridley, King Dedede, Krystal, Titania, and Ashnard? Add in new character to the roster that can give the players a completely new set of attacks rather than just "all punches and kicks".

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Yeah Lucario would have a completely different fighting style, and his Aura attacks to add as a bonus.

Lucario would NOT be a clone.

 

[brawlpro]

lol what will happen when brawl comes out....all the ppl that were wrong about what character will be in will be so embarassed since thus is soo controversial, i'm gonna be LMFAO watchin them wish they could change their name!!!

(i'm not talkin about anyone in particular...so don't try n' flame me...)

 

[_the_sandman_]

Yeah Lucario would have a completely different fighting style, and his Aura attacks to add as a bonus.

Lucario would NOT be a clone.

I never said he was a clone. I just said he has nothing new to offer us. But the way you've been talking these past few posts it sounds like you're trying to mix Ness and Luigi in some horrific way in order to make a cross-chopping aura attack moveset.

lol what will happen when brawl comes out....all the ppl that were wrong about what character will be in will be so embarassed since thus is soo controversial, i'm gonna be LMFAO watchin them wish they could change their name!!!

(i'm not talkin about anyone in particular...so don't try n' flame me...)

Heh... I'm preparing for EVERYONE to tell me how wrong I am when one of those controversial characters pops up. I'm not too worried though, its only Smash Boards.

Of course some other fans take these kinds of threads WAY too seriously. They actually might become so embarassed that they may change their name. Heh, good times....

 

[Red_Maniac]

Bowser Jr. not playable is the only thing that I agree with you.

 

[brawlpro]

koopa kid=assistant trophy!!!

 

[skullkidd]

Lucario will be kick ***, you got Squirtle, and we can have both of them.
IMO, they've GOT to represent the newer generation somehow with playable characters, so you should learn to live with Lucario, or maybe even Munchlax.