Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[warionumbah2]

His homestage just so happens to be his best lol.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

ROFL home field advantage too strong. That's so dope.

EDIT:

Dabuz made his own tier lists (vanilla and customs) since a new patch is coming out. What are you guys' thoughts?


https://mobile.twitter.com/DabuzSensei/status/586235898150400000

 

[Superbat]

meh its pretty good. At least He doesn't crazy super changing opinions like M2K in which if he gets bopped by a character he doesn't understand he says that the character is top 3. Looks pretty decent. Lol that Metaknight is worse that kirby in no customs is pretty funny but I can't blame him since he's the 90% of the community who think think MK is trash.

 

[warionumbah2]

Basically what SuperBat said, 90% of the community thinks he's terribad despite him getting results and not to mention being one of the characters that can fly solo at high level not needing a secondary to scratch his back.

The more people that think he sucks the better. I don't really care for the list since the patch is coming and this looks like its slapped together with little effort its heavily based on his experience.

 

[Pazx]

Honestly post-patch I think I'll be relying on MK more than I do now but I really can't predict what's going to happen. The lower people think of him, the more satisfying it is to beat them.

I'm hosting an IRL tournament today, it's a qualifier for BAM 7, you guys can tune in in about 4 hours at http://www.twitch.tv/vitalityevents

Pools start at 11am AEST, I'll be repping MK but don't be upset if you see one of my other characters.

 

[Jeronado]

I don't really mind if people think Meta Knight is bad, although I still don't understand how people can say that just cause he was nerfed from being a broken character but whatever, just gotta embrace the hipster status I guess. The list looks okay, I'm not really sure about ZSS being in S though.

I'm hosting an IRL tournament today, it's a qualifier for BAM 7, you guys can tune in in about 4 hours at http://www.twitch.tv/vitalityevents

Pools start at 11am AEST, I'll be repping MK but don't be upset if you see one of my other characters.

Good luck!

 

[LostinpinK]

Words from a Diddy Kong player, former Brawl MK player yesterday :
"Hey who do you play?"
"-Mostly MK, sometimes DDD"
"lol"
"-What's so funny?"
"Well, you only play sandbags"

The guy wasn't a total scrub either, people just underestimate MK as **** as long as they haven't played one.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Since @ Katakiri came to MI, people's opinion of MK are a bit higher here. One of the newer players walked up to me last tournament after watching me play and he was like "I think it's so cool you play a character that very few people do. Tired of all these Diddys and Sheiks and tier whores" XD

 

[warionumbah2]

All those Diddy and Sheik players will jump to the next big thing after the patch. Can't wait for that event, anyway shuttle loop OOS has some nasty range my gosh.

Even if Falcon spaces his sh bair properly, the moment it touches your shield shuttle loop will hit. I did to a Falcon player just now and he's like "that move was made to spam" and i said "well stop 'spamming' sh bair and jabs Mr Falcon user 100035".

Falcon is literally the polar opposite to MK in some areas: Everyone loves Falcon. Not the same for MK. Poor recovery. MK has one of the best recovery. Falcon has range. MK is fairly short ranged. Falcon is more common. MK is one of the rarest characters to see at mid to high level.

Its also good against Sheik because she loves to tickle our shields. @ ZTD | TECHnology how well did you and Kata perform?

The guy wasn't a total scrub either, people just underestimate MK as **** as long as they haven't played one.

Nah he's a scrub 'sandbag' really??? <-- These guys are way more sandbag like than MK.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That was the event he got 4th/68 at. It was after that I decided to start playing MK. My first event with MK I placed 13th out of 40 something. I expect to start placing higher again now that I have an idea of what to do with him.

 

[Katakiri]

I got 5th at the regional yesterday out of, I heard it was 120~ people but that didn't seem quite right. I did have one of the best matches I've played and figured out a lot about MK and just what I need to be doing against jank customs. The only matches I lost were to jank customs.

I'm the first match on this VoD and it's one of my best matches, I downloaded his Olimar after game 1 and further proved I have the Luigi MU down probably better than any other MK: http://www.twitch.tv/events2compete/b/648922394
Speaking of other MKs, shoutouts to @ Fye & @Cruecial It was great playing and talking with you guys! Fye is really good for how little I see him post around here, I thought he was new but he was taking games off me in friendlies. Great stuff!
I love to vent about MK to people that get it and sitting down for a while teaching Cruecial all my tricks with N-Air, subtle movements to get Up-Air chains early, tornado consistently, and all sorts of other things re-sparked my desire to get a proper MK guide out there so I'll probably be working on that very soon.

Anyone that doesn't think Mii Brawler is the best character in the customs game hasn't done the research. Amazing Ampharos was on meth when he decided to allow Miis to min-max their size, which means not only their speed but their LANDING LAG!!! It is no exaggeration to call that character better than Brawl MK with customs and the smallest size possible. That alone almost makes me want to cancel my flight to EVO but I'm working ways around it.
It's not like it came out of the blue either, I knew Mii Brawler would be there and I knew that it would be THE character to beat me so I learned all I could but it still wasn't enough. I have the normal game down so well that only jank is really threatening. Unfortunately my next tourney is customs-legal too so...ugh.

MK doesn't have a fighting chance in customs. The Sonic MU is not even questionably 30:70 or worse in customs thanks to Burning Spin Dash. Mii Brawler is...**** that. DK's dumb and Mario gets real good with just Gust Cape and Scalding FLUDD, which is positive on shield for him. I'll probably stick with MK game 1 unless I know the other player's character for sure but I'm maining Mega Man for customs. He patches up a lot of bad MUs that MK has in customs and has two very handy tools for dealing with Sonic & Mii Brawler.

I almost used Entangling Tornado for Mii Brawler before deciding that I just need to use Mega Man. My Kirby's out, Mega's back in for now. I didn't run into any DKs so Kirby didn't do anything for me.


My Mega Man did beat Chicago's Sonic player in bracket pretty decisively right after he beat Ohio's best Mega Man, Kel, who didn't believe that I had a strong Mega Man until he saw me win. The Sonic was real mad by the end of our set and forfeited his next match after the first game out of sheer frustration. I'm starting to learn how to apply mental warfare by fishing for a strategy that gets under their skin or makes them take risks. It's a lot easier than taking risks myself and I can do it with MK or Mega so long as I can maintain control of the match.

 

[Superbat]

Holy **** I had no idea how bad mini brawler was. Like
At first I was all in for customs but dam is mk fked in the customs meta. lol

 

[warionumbah2]

The worst thing about customs is knowing the fact that its here to stay. Smh

 

[Sol0ke]

No one in my area is ever prepared for my MK since I'm the only one that actually uses him.

It's quite fun watching them squirm.

 

[Fye]

Thanks @ Katakiri for playing me in the ditto. It was a lot of fun, and thanks to @ItoI6 for all the advice about scrubiness. I tied for 9th in the tourney. Lost to that Luigi player in Katakiri's video 2-1 (definitely will be studying this matchup) and that stupid camping Villager set. I had no idea it was that bad, and was super salty at the end of it.

 

[warionumbah2]

There's actually a Japanese MK that beat the Villager camping. With default as well, the players called Tama Nyaso.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PInSdCozG-k

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That Villager made me want to gouge my eyes out.

 

[Deleted member]

Just started watching the rebroadcast and wow, you can kill all of Olimar's Pikmin with up-throw? That's very good to know.

 

[Fye]

That reminds me. When I faced that guy's Olimar on Smashville and up-throwed him, I crashed onto an invisible platform. The real platform had moved a sizeable distance away from us. I may be crazy, but it felt that up-throw took longer than usual so maybe the game thought we shoud've landed on the platform.

 

[Sol0ke]

Is Villager difficult with MK? Like maybe I just have bad Villagers in my area, but how

 

[warionumbah2]

Is Villager difficult with MK? Like maybe I just have bad Villagers in my area, but how

MK decks Villager hard in default, Customs Villager can only hope to camp MK, but HSD beats ALL of his projectiles and MK having multiple jumps helps him challenge Villager who's camping at the edge.

I don't think any smart player will go Villager on MK unless they solo main him.

Edit: I wanna watch that Olimar match but twitch banned me for no ****ing reason. Horse****!

 

[Sol0ke]

Cool thanks I was beginning to worry that Villager was supposed to be a difficult matchup

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Villager struggles against anyone with a strong rush down game in general. Metaknight has 6 jumps and a good ground speed with a fast fair; all really useful tools against Villager. It's like Olimar: Playing patient and camping usually ends up with you frustrated and losing a battle of attrition. Staying in their face once you have the opening (you can see that Japanese MK progressively taking more risks and being more assertive), is how to do it.

 

[W.A.C.]

If MK had amazing custom moves, this whole discussion would be completely different. It sucks that his customs are so crappy. If it weren't for HSD (which I still hate), I would say Meta Knight has the worst custom moves in the game. Also, I'd say Diddy Kong is still better than Mii Brawler. Diddy Kong has one of the best projectiles in the game, good range, and his recovery travels far and can be very unpredictable. Mii Brawler sacrifices all of that for pure kill power. Mii Brawler is a difficult matchup for Meta Knight, but considering Mii Brawler's crappy recovery options, I imagine MK could gimp him pretty badly if he can get him off the stage. On the plus side, Meta Knight could benefit enormously from the patch, so we'll just have to wait and see. Then if you compare Brawl MK to Mii Brawler, MK had the best/most broken up special in the history of the Smash Bros. series, ledge guarding was in the game so he was able to capitalize on that extremely well, he had solid range with long disjointed hitboxes, one of the only characters that could do actual combos, etc. Brawl Meta Knight was far scarier than Mii Brawler and destroyed the balance of the Brawl. Well, him and Ice Climbers.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Brawl Meta Knight was far scarier than Mii Brawler and destroyed the balance of the Brawl. Well, him and Ice Climbers.

Technically, that was MK's fault as well, his prominence made TOs to shrink the stagelist, buffing ICs and ruining the meta.

That being said, Helicopter Kick is a nearly broken move, about as much or more than Brawl Shuttle Loop. Difference being that Brawl Meta Knight had far more neutral/punish options than Mii Brawler.

 

[Ffamran]

I got 5th at the regional yesterday out of, I heard it was 120~ people but that didn't seem quite right. I did have one of the best matches I've played and figured out a lot about MK and just what I need to be doing against jank customs. The only matches I lost were to jank customs.

I'm the first match on this VoD and it's one of my best matches, I downloaded his Olimar after game 1 and further proved I have the Luigi MU down probably better than any other MK: http://www.twitch.tv/events2compete/b/648922394
Speaking of other MKs, shoutouts to @ Fye & @Cruecial It was great playing and talking with you guys! Fye is really good for how little I see him post around here, I thought he was new but he was taking games off me in friendlies. Great stuff!
I love to vent about MK to people that get it and sitting down for a while teaching Cruecial all my tricks with N-Air, subtle movements to get Up-Air chains early, tornado consistently, and all sorts of other things re-sparked my desire to get a proper MK guide out there so I'll probably be working on that very soon.

Anyone that doesn't think Mii Brawler is the best character in the customs game hasn't done the research. Amazing Ampharos was on meth when he decided to allow Miis to min-max their size, which means not only their speed but their LANDING LAG!!! It is no exaggeration to call that character better than Brawl MK with customs and the smallest size possible. That alone almost makes me want to cancel my flight to EVO but I'm working ways around it.
It's not like it came out of the blue either, I knew Mii Brawler would be there and I knew that it would be THE character to beat me so I learned all I could but it still wasn't enough. I have the normal game down so well that only jank is really threatening. Unfortunately my next tourney is customs-legal too so...ugh.

MK doesn't have a fighting chance in customs. The Sonic MU is not even questionably 30:70 or worse in customs thanks to Burning Spin Dash. Mii Brawler is...**** that. DK's dumb and Mario gets real good with just Gust Cape and Scalding FLUDD, which is positive on shield for him. I'll probably stick with MK game 1 unless I know the other player's character for sure but I'm maining Mega Man for customs. He patches up a lot of bad MUs that MK has in customs and has two very handy tools for dealing with Sonic & Mii Brawler.

I almost used Entangling Tornado for Mii Brawler before deciding that I just need to use Mega Man. My Kirby's out, Mega's back in for now. I didn't run into any DKs so Kirby didn't do anything for me.


My Mega Man did beat Chicago's Sonic player in bracket pretty decisively right after he beat Ohio's best Mega Man, Kel, who didn't believe that I had a strong Mega Man until he saw me win. The Sonic was real mad by the end of our set and forfeited his next match after the first game out of sheer frustration. I'm starting to learn how to apply mental warfare by fishing for a strategy that gets under their skin or makes them take risks. It's a lot easier than taking risks myself and I can do it with MK or Mega so long as I can maintain control of the match.

Dammit! I missed you on that stream? Oh well, maybe next time. Well, at least there's a Midwest stream that does SSB4. The joys of living in an area where the main streamer is called MeleeMilwaukee...

Mini Mii Brawler's ground and air speed is insane and they're tiny too! As for Helicopter Kick, I asked Lavani and he said it has a base knockback of 60? and knockback growth of 150. That's weaker than Ganondorf's Warlock Punch and Marth's tipper Side Smash, but here's the difference: Mii Brawler has you in the air and pushing you closer to the ceiling because it's a multi-hit move which can be used as high in the air as Mii Brawler wants. WHY? Who thought this was a good idea? It's a move that kills at ~40% and it seems faster and safer than Ganondorf's armored, but slow as sin Warlock Punch and Marth's precise as hell, tipper Side Smash!

 

[talegas]

@ Katakiri first off l want to congratulate you for your performance at the Ohio tournament. I was watching it on stream because our friend (the Sonic player you beat, ironic huh?) was there so we were cheering him on. I saw you lost to XeroXen which I assume was playing Mario since that's who he used against Shugo's Sonic and I wanted to know how that went. Did you stick with MK? Also did you play any friendlies with Akiro?

P.S. This is my first post on smashboards so I apologize in advance if I am breaking any rules!

 

[Ulevo]

Meta Knight didn't ruin the balance of Brawl. He was simply the best choice, and was very good at putting a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Characters like Falco, Snake, Dedede and Ice Climbers were far better at ruining the rosters match ups and completely invalidating characters.

 

[W.A.C.]

Technically, that was MK's fault as well, his prominence made TOs to shrink the stagelist, buffing ICs and ruining the meta.

That being said, Helicopter Kick is a nearly broken move, about as much or more than Brawl Shuttle Loop. Difference being that Brawl Meta Knight had far more neutral/punish options than Mii Brawler.

Helicopter Kick is a ridiculous move, but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be largely because as an overall character, he has way more problems than most people seem to realize. Plus it's a lousy recovery that's an amazing kill move. Just never take Mii Brawler to Isle Delfino or Castle Siege because of walk off sections.

Meta Knight didn't ruin the balance of Brawl. He was simply the best choice, and was very good at putting a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Characters like Falco, Snake, Dedede and Ice Climbers were far better at ruining the rosters match ups and completely invalidating characters.

There were a lot of characters that hurt Brawl's balance, but I'd say Meta Knight and Ice Climbers were by far the worst in that regard. Meta Knight and Ice Climbers were so broken in that game, it was ridiculous.

 

[ぱみゅ]

ICs weren't that good, but shorter stagelists artificially boosted their abilities. Again, that's MK's fault ,and without him more stages would've been available, and thus, they wouldn't have been so powerful.

And you don't seem to understand what a broken move is.
A move killing at 60%, can be setup into, used airborne, and intercept recoveries IS borderline broken, even if it's attached to a character who is not. Now, it's maybe a lousy recovery, but then you have Onslaught and Feint Jump to make up for it, so, why even worry?

 

[W.A.C.]

To me, what makes a move broken is how good it makes a character. If a character like Shiek or Diddy Kong had Palutina's lightweight, that move would be pretty much broken. But because it's attached to a character like Palutina, it's a move that essentially makes her very viable, but not a broken character despite some of the stupidly early kill you can get with her. I've yet to hear anyone say they view her with custom moves as better than Diddy Kong or Shiek largely because both of those characters are overall solid characters who don't have to rely on one or two moves to be good. They could massively nerf Diddy's Kong's up air's knockback and he still would be one of the best characters in the game. And if a player relies so much on one or two moves, their play style can become really predictable and easier to punish. This is also why Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop in Brawl was a far bigger problem because as an overall character, he was fundamentally solid in pretty much every way. I will say this though. I do easily consider Mii Brawler with custom moves as one of the top ten best characters in the game, but definitely not top two.

 

[Ulevo]

There were a lot of characters that hurt Brawl's balance, but I'd say Meta Knight and Ice Climbers were by far the worst in that regard. Meta Knight and Ice Climbers were so broken in that game, it was ridiculous.

Meta Knight hurt the community. He was an extremely good character who was also extremely easy to use at all levels of play. This meant his usage rate was really high. This staled the meta, and centralized it. However, Meta Knight didn't have 7:3 match ups across the board. He had 5:5, usually 6:4. The current Diddy Kong is definitely not better than Brawl Meta Knight, but for comparisons sake I would say Diddy Kong has more polarized match ups against mid and low tiers than Brawl Meta Knight had.

And you don't seem to understand what a broken move is.
A move killing at 60%, can be setup into, used airborne, and intercept recoveries IS borderline broken, even if it's attached to a character who is not. Now, it's maybe a lousy recovery, but then you have Onslaught and Feint Jump to make up for it, so, why even worry?

Attributes of a move don't define if the move is inherently broken. A move is broken based on the context of the environment. Honestly, Shuttle Loop is good, but it was overrated. There were other moves in that game that were worse, and good players knew how to punish Shuttle Loop.

 

[Kaffei]

Does anyone know if there's a video of Meta Knight's customs? Everyone is saying that they are bad but I don't know much about them and I'd appreciate it if someone could educate me on the matter

 

[warionumbah2]

Does anyone know if there's a video of Meta Knight's customs? Everyone is saying that they are bad but I don't know much about them and I'd appreciate it if someone could educate me on the matter

Here you go. HSD is like the only decent custom but the problem is the fact that Mk doesn't have any janky ass customs to help BS his way to victory.

 

[Ulevo]

Do we have a Skype group for the Meta Knight players here.

 

[Deleted member]

I suggested it a few months back and now that we have a lot more MK mains, I think we should make one.

 

[Sol0ke]

The patch wait is killing me...this can make or break Mk

 

[W.A.C.]

Here's hoping they further adjust his crappy hit boxes. I have no idea how they managed to screw up as much as they did with them to where his down tilt sword poke can go through Pit's entire foot, yet Captain Falcon's final hit with his jab is far away from Falcon's fists. :/

 

[Ulevo]

Captain Falcon's bull**** hitboxes aside, I don't think Meta Knight really needs a range increase. The visuals matching the hitboxes would be nice but I don't think it matters that much. I don't really notice it most of the time. The bright, vibrant flash of the sword usually marks where the hits need to land. The best we can hope for is a better forward air, the removal of his lag install, and for some of the top tiers to be toned down. I think the latter is the most likely outcome, and I won't be surprised if Meta Knight has no changes at all this patch.

 

[Slither2Hunter]

If you all really want a metaknight skype group, i'll make one.

Add me: Zerahunter92