Social The MKGD: The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

[Exdeath]

Same ****, every tournament. Sheik, Luigi, ZSS, Yoshi.

Maybe I should just pick up some busted easy mode *** character rofl. I cannot keep doing this.

MK does fine against all of these.

 

[Jamurai]

That's just not true lol. ZSS is our hardest matchup, and Sheik, Yoshi and Luigi are all draining to play against, especially if you encounter lots of them over a tournament (I would imagine).

 

[warionumbah2]

Yoshi and sonic are hella exaggerated around here, 2 characters that are easy as hell to uair combo due to being somewhat floaty. Mmkay, sheik is stupid I laugh at sheik users who think we win or go even. Sadly results are in our favor, mk has been beating high level sheiks more than high level sheiks beating mks.

Im baffled how sword users of any kind struggle against luigi at this point.

 

[N~W .]

Should've mentioned this after the day of the tournament but I was a bit late on reporting this. Apologies.

Came 7th out of 79 entrants at another London tourney last week or so again just using solo MK.

I also entered doubles and TTT2 on the day with TTT2 being the worst result with me just going 0-2 in bracket against the people who came 1st and 4th respectively.

Singles: http://challonge.com/kic6sbs

Doubles: http://challonge.com/kic6sbd

Got sent to losers by Plastic Poptart, a Pit player who used to pretty much school me but I managed to hold my own to an extent. I got too greedy with Up B to try and catch his landing and I got up smashed off the top platform of dreamland but still it was a fun set. MK/Pit seems very spacing and movement heavy, definitely a fun match-up for me next to Falcon or Ness.

Got eliminated by AyyLmao A.K.A the man of many names using Diddy. I've always struggled vs Diddy when I played Bowser and even worse when I play MK. It's just a personal bad match-up of mine but with more experience, I can win it next time. I even stayed over at his place to grind the match-up and we both learnt stuff about each other's characters in the process which was great.

The latter match was recorded and should be getting uploaded to Youtube soon (hopefully). I'll post it in the video thread as soon as its uploaded as I still feel my MK needs more work to get better. Both sets ended in 2-1 victories to my opponents so I can't be too disappointed in the result.

Doubles was a good experience as I got to team up with Bowie, a Roy player on the day. I started to see what kind of stuff MK can do in doubles. We got a nice team combo killing a Pikachu at 50% using Roy Up Throw > MK uair to Up B. The shield pressure those two can convert is really strong.

We had a good ledge trap going on where I would hold jab at the ledge and he would use and f smash to cover rolling onto the stage. It worked really well and I even gimped a Falcon player with jab as he was recovering from smashville by standing at the correct space for jab to clip his up B.

Things I Noted From That Day

Grab game is starting to get a little better. I still occasionally miss dash grabs because I'm just out of reach (MK's arms look like he's gonna grab them but it just misses at times.)

Finally beat the Yoshi player that has been giving me trouble ever since I started playing Smash 4. The pop off was real. I kept reading his approaches with pivot f smashes and ftilts to keep him out and grabbing him when he got scared to approach. The use of Up B OOS on his stuff helped a lot as well.

We don't really have anyone who mains ZSS and does well in this scene. Maybe it does work to my advantage but I want to grind that MU somewhere down the line at some point. Might pick her up as a secondary myself.

But overall still keeping consistent. Two monthlies in a row and both top 8 placements. Can't hate on that. The next one's in October and I'll be training for that one in the meantime. Time to work on footstools, jab locks, movement techniques and up tilt > uair combo percentages.

 

[Lufos]

Should've mentioned this after the day of the tournament but I was a bit late on reporting this. Apologies.

Came 7th out of 79 entrants at another London tourney last week or so again just using solo MK.

I also entered doubles and TTT2 on the day with TTT2 being the worst result with me just going 0-2 in bracket against the people who came 1st and 4th respectively.

Singles: http://challonge.com/kic6sbs

Doubles: http://challonge.com/kic6sbd

Got sent to losers by Plastic Poptart, a Pit player who used to pretty much school me but I managed to hold my own to an extent. I got too greedy with Up B to try and catch his landing and I got up smashed off the top platform of dreamland but still it was a fun set. MK/Pit seems very spacing and movement heavy, definitely a fun match-up for me next to Falcon or Ness.

Got eliminated by AyyLmao A.K.A the man of many names using Diddy. I've always struggled vs Diddy when I played Bowser and even worse when I play MK. It's just a personal bad match-up of mine but with more experience, I can win it next time. I even stayed over at his place to grind the match-up and we both learnt stuff about each other's characters in the process which was great.

The latter match was recorded and should be getting uploaded to Youtube soon (hopefully). I'll post it in the video thread as soon as its uploaded as I still feel my MK needs more work to get better. Both sets ended in 2-1 victories to my opponents so I can't be too disappointed in the result.

Doubles was a good experience as I got to team up with Bowie, a Roy player on the day. I started to see what kind of stuff MK can do in doubles. We got a nice team combo killing a Pikachu at 50% using Roy Up Throw > MK uair to Up B. The shield pressure those two can convert is really strong.

We had a good ledge trap going on where I would hold jab at the ledge and he would use and f smash to cover rolling onto the stage. It worked really well and I even gimped a Falcon player with jab as he was recovering from smashville by standing at the correct space for jab to clip his up B.

Things I Noted From That Day

Grab game is starting to get a little better. I still occasionally miss dash grabs because I'm just out of reach (MK's arms look like he's gonna grab them but it just misses at times.)

Finally beat the Yoshi player that has been giving me trouble ever since I started playing Smash 4. The pop off was real. I kept reading his approaches with pivot f smashes and ftilts to keep him out and grabbing him when he got scared to approach. The use of Up B OOS on his stuff helped a lot as well.

We don't really have anyone who mains ZSS and does well in this scene. Maybe it does work to my advantage but I want to grind that MU somewhere down the line at some point. Might pick her up as a secondary myself.

But overall still keeping consistent. Two monthlies in a row and both top 8 placements. Can't hate on that. The next one's in October and I'll be training for that one in the meantime. Time to work on footstools, jab locks, movement techniques and up tilt > uair combo percentages.

I'll probably attend that tourney in october (if its dat blastzone 7), going there with a bunch of smashers all the way from sweden! I haven't decided if I should practice my MK och Samus until then though...

 

[N~W .]

I'll probably attend that tourney in october (if its dat blastzone 7), going there with a bunch of smashers all the way from sweden! I haven't decided if I should practice my MK och Samus until then though...

Yeah that's the tourney. As of right now, I'm not 100% confirmed if I can go to it because of uni and there's a Tekken tourney in Marseilles coming up around that time but I'll see what arrangements I can make to make it to the tourney.

 

[Exdeath]

That's just not true lol. ZSS is our hardest matchup, and Sheik, Yoshi and Luigi are all draining to play against, especially if you encounter lots of them over a tournament (I would imagine).

I didn't say that they're easy. I said that Meta Knight does fine. Learning the MU is more likely to be effective than switching characters.

Also, I made my feelings abundantly clear on ZSS in the MU thread. ZSS doesn't have an answer to sitting in block unless the player is bad and as a result I honestly think that the MU is in MK's favor. I don't understand why the rest of the boards have problems with the MU.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

And now, a bunch of random Meta Knight quotes off the top of my head.

"This is the end, Kirby. Come meet your doom!"

-To Kirby, Kirby Super Star Ultra
​

"He is Fire Kirby!"

-To Tiff and Co., Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

"Victory... is my destiny."

-Victory quote, Smash Bros (duh)
​

"Forgive me, Kirby. I blame the yarn."

-To Kirby, Kirby's Epic Yarn
​

"Now, my opponent, draw your sword and duel me!"

-To Kirby, $00pah Nin10do Animation
​

"The pen is mightier than the sword."

-To Tiff, Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

"...You are all about to perish. Do as you please."

-To the Meta-Knights, Kirby Super Star Ultra
​

"You've much yet to learn."

-Victory quote, Smash Bros (duh (again))
​

"No! That is the heartburn from Kawasaki's cooking."

-To Tuff, Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

"The time has come. The time to show our power. Dreamland's lazy lifestyle will end! I will rule!"

-To Halberd crew, Kirby Super Star
​

"This is BULL****!"

-To Sailor Dee, $00pah Nin10do Animation
​

"Hmm... Interesting..."

-To himself, Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

"He is Top Kirby!"

-To Tiff and Co., Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

"What do we do?!"
"We fight to the last breath and go down with the ship!"

-Sailor Dee and Meta Knight, $00pah Nin10do Animation
​

"We've been led into a trap!"

-To Halberd crew, Kirby Right Back At Ya!
​

That's all I got as of now. I'm done.

 

[warionumbah2]

-Someone who plays **** white hair sword boy-

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

You got something against the High Deliverer?

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Hello all, I'm surprised I have yet to post here yet, as I've been maining Lucina and Meta Knight since the 3DS release. I went from having an overly extreme amount of mains, and have been cutting them down as time went on. ie: Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja, Falco, Sonic, Robin, Marth, Rosalina, Shulk, Peach, Captain Falcon, and Ike...Not all of them at once of course, but I did main/consider them all at one point or another. Lucina and Meta Knight, however, have been there since the beginning and haven't moved. Granted, I'm thinking "Hey, three's company." but am uncertain on that just yet. Mostly considering Greninja or Lucario for a 3rd main, but some of the previously mentioned characters could prove relevant to my interests. Nevertheless, I hope you all are well and I hope I haven't arrived at a bad time. For instance, the last thread I checked up on was the Lucario thread, which had been warring with itself for a while now...rather dramatic if you ask me. Now to end off my introduction, here's an image of Lucina and MK that I found rather adorable:

 

[Superbat]

Welcome to the bat cave fam.

 

[warionumbah2]

I lurked all character boards and this is our theoretical MU spread

-2

-1

0

+1

+2


this character is ass. Immaining sheik now.

 

[AlanHaTe]

As I don't play the game that often but I like it and there are like no Luigis in my city, I was wondering why is Luigi supossed to be a bad MU? Can someone elaborate on this?
Any tips for fighting Pika and Lucario besides getting early kills on Lucario so the retardedness of Aura+Rage mechanics combined don't kill me at 20ish?

 

[Qazoo306]

I lurked all character boards and this is our theoretical MU spread

-2

-1

0

+1

+2


this character is ***. Immaining sheik now.

Lol. Add 1 or 2 to almost all of them and I'd say that's accurate. (+4 on the samus MU sounds right)

 

[ぱみゅ]

Luigi escapes most of our combos with Nair, and capitalizes from grabs pretty hard. It's not a terrible matchup because our disjoint can a bit difficult for him to get around, but otherwise, he bops on MK quite hard (I experienced this at Smash Factor). Maybe someone else with more experience has a better look at this matchup though.

Pikachu you too want to keep at bay with your disjointed moves, pretty much just not let him grab you and always be aware of his aerials and his landing options (Dair particularly is very tricky). Don't fall for Thunderjolt shenanigans.
As for Lucario, I am not sure. He looks like his spacing game has wider gaps than in Brawl, and his combos are not nearly as reliable, but I haven't played any good Lucario in this game.

 

[warionumbah2]

we lose those MUs metaknight is trash.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Luigi escapes most of our combos with Nair, and capitalizes from grabs pretty hard. It's not a terrible matchup because our disjoint can a bit difficult for him to get around, but otherwise, he bops on MK quite hard (I experienced this at Smash Factor). Maybe someone else with more experience has a better look at this matchup though.

Pikachu you too want to keep at bay with your disjointed moves, pretty much just not let him grab you and always be aware of his aerials and his landing options (Dair particularly is very tricky). Don't fall for Thunderjolt shenanigans.
As for Lucario, I am not sure. He looks like his spacing game has wider gaps than in Brawl, and his combos are not nearly as reliable, but I haven't played any good Lucario in this game.

But... in the case of Luigi, does that somehow mean that he suffers less hitstun, or it's just that his Nair is super fast?

The Pika tips are nice, that Neto experience I trust. Do you know if his hurtbox extends when doing QA like it did in Brawl? Haven't been able to test it myself, but for some reason I think I remember watching a Pika get hit by something because of that

Dunno, Lucario is somewhat similar to Brawl, or at least that's how I feel it. It's pretty similar, but with that stupid mechanics combination(as if having either one of them wsn't stupid enough lol)

 

[Jamurai]

-2

-1

0

At all of these:

 

[Krysco]

But... in the case of Luigi, does that somehow mean that he suffers less hitstun, or it's just that his Nair is super fast?

The Pika tips are nice, that Neto experience I trust. Do you know if his hurtbox extends when doing QA like it did in Brawl? Haven't been able to test it myself, but for some reason I think I remember watching a Pika get hit by something because of that

Pretty sure nair is just really fast and as for Pika and his hurtboxes:

 

[Twiranitar]

There's a pretty nice MK in Paragon's stream right now! Go watch it!

 

[Twiranitar]

Well, the match is over. He almost pulled off a bair jab-lock in the first moments of the first match, and closed with a Dimensional Cape read. He won 2-0, and his name is Gemba. Also, Tyrant was commentating that set lol.

Edit: Sorry about the double post.

 

[Jamurai]

I thought it was going to be disastrous when he attempted to follow up a Dtilt lock with dash attack and... missed. But he wasn't terrible* in the end

 

[Wintermelon43]

I lurked all character boards and this is our theoretical MU spread

-2

-1

0

+1

+2


this character is ***. Immaining sheik now.

LOL the Kirby boards discussed Meta Knight months ago, I'm pretty sure we think it's 45:55 now in Meta's favor. The remainder also probably did months ago.

 

[warionumbah2]

Why tho, why do u insist on bringing up that pink **** on our sacred board?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Why tho, why do u insist on bringing up that pink **** on our sacred board?

lol.

At least I didn't mention Jigglypuff

 

[Krysco]

And here I am with Kirby as my arguable tertiary character ;-;

Anyways, I was meaning to post this earlier but work:

As I'm sure I've mentioned before, my cousin and I do FG dubs whenever he comes over and honestly, that's mostly the only time I play Sm4sh since FG 1v1 always gives me a headache and I'm too lazy to find people to have matches with on proper stages, plus online sucks anyways. Lately I've been following my grabs with uthrow in FG dubs since it does decent damage, is fast and has a hitbox to hit anyone who tries to save their partner and my cousin has got the trajectory of uthrow pretty on point since he follows up after it a lot.

That got me thinking and so for about an hour we tested footstool follow ups with our different characters and MK seems to have a really nice one: uthrow > footstool (from partner) > dtilt x1-3 > nado (for damage), fsmash (for killing) or regrab to do it all over again. We haven't pulled it off in an actual match but it looks doable even factoring in di.

Seeing as how my cousin and I mostly do dubs and I plan on getting my G1 this year, I should be able to start going to tournaments next year or at worst 2 years from now. If I do so, I'll probably take my cousin along for any dubs tournaments we can go to and here's where I ask what do you guys consider to be good partners for MK? I know Tech has mentioned Olimar and Megaman. My cousin's top 3 are Link, Peach and Marth and after that he uses Falcon, Fox and Roy really well.

Also, in regards to competitive play, would you guys say R.O.B. is a good secondary for MK? MK seems like a character that hardly needs a secondary as it is but is there any mu that gives us hell that the more defensive R.O.B. could handle better? Worst mu we seem to have is ZSS and I don't even want to think of what R.O.B. would go through in that mu @.@ I ask since R.O.B. is my second best character.

TL;DR footstool combos in dubs are awesome if also dumb, good partners for MK? R.O.B. a good secondary?

Also, random tidbit of knowledge but my cousin was able to meteor someone with Link's dair during the ascent of my uthrow, it was on the ledge too though the percent was too low so the opponent lived.

 

[Shaya]

Although MK is one of the few well-played characters of mine I haven't taken out in tournament (recently), I'd go with:

-1:
-1 or even:
evenish:
advantage-ish:

no one else matters (so probably sizable advantage)/I probably wouldn't be able to argue it... I'm sure Greninja (the new pacman) is going to think advantage over you guys, but I doubt it.
Evenish is my way of saying "warionumbah2 would say up air is a stock at 20% (the new brawl pikachu), but could be any side of the equasion IMO"

 

[warionumbah2]

Considering every top metaknight (other than leo) know about the uair combo percents on the whole cast you expect floaty characters to get **** on. Tyrant already displayed it against ally and ito demolished a villager and kirby by ending their stocks below 20, floaty characters are so easy no matter how they DI its super easy to follow them.

Oh forgot that salena got the uair combos on ranai every game but dropped them due to missing the shuttle loops or fast fall inbetween for no reason. Even pocket metaknights like abadango is abusing metaknights dominance on floaty characters.

Next time you fight marth get him to 20-23% get the final hit of dash attack and uair him 5 times before shuttle loop. He's basically lost at that point.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

So, since I'm maining Lucina and Meta Knight...I've been wondering about a 3rd main. I've heard Greninja would likely be the prime choice MU wise. These are the characters I've thought over thus far:
: Most likely the best character MU wise, but incredibly complex and criminally underused to my understanding.
: Newer playstyle, can focus moreso on defensive gameplay, which I'm rather lackluster with atm (Basically, I'd be able to work on defense by training as Lucario). MUs, to my understanding, are almost all 50:50. Also, like Greninja, he's criminally underused...to my understanding.
: Heavily unlikely due to being very low risk-high reward. Would like to main him, but things just aren't working the way I planned.
: Unlikely, but has caught my interest. Has been rather overused, due to being near the top of the charts.
: Unlikely, but caught my interest. Starting to become a new popular character, so could see an influx of Peach players.
: Unsure on, seems like he could prove interesting, but I'm rather unsure on him specifically. He's a very 50:50 character with me. Plus he, like Rosalina, has been rather overdone to my knowledge.
What do you fellow knights think? What does MK struggle with that Lucina wouldn't be able to cover? Perhaps I shouldn't be worried about covering all fields and leave that to the secondaries?

 

[warionumbah2]

If she doesn't beat ZSS or go even with ZSS she is useless.

Go Greninja and abuse his shadow stuff im pretty sure it works on boost kick. Plus Greninja in theory is top 5 looking at the MU spreads i see his mains pump out.

Abuse that stuff before it gets nerfed like Sheik.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

If she doesn't beat ZSS or go even with ZSS she is useless.

Go Greninja and abuse his shadow stuff im pretty sure it works on boost kick. Plus Greninja in theory is top 5 looking at the MU spreads i see his mains pump out.

Abuse that stuff before it gets nerfed like Sheik.

I assume by she, you specifically meant Peach and Rosalina.

 

[warionumbah2]

Although MK is one of the few well-played characters of mine I haven't taken out in tournament (recently), I'd go with:

-1:
-1 or even:
evenish:
advantage-ish:

no one else matters (so probably sizable advantage)/I probably wouldn't be able to argue it... I'm sure Greninja (the new pacman) is going to think advantage over you guys, but I doubt it.
Evenish is my way of saying "warionumbah2 would say up air is a stock at 20% (the new brawl pikachu), but could be any side of the equasion IMO"

Pikachu and Diddy are the only ones who don't get lolstomped by uair combo's in the even bit.

This is my version

+2

+1

+0
(not sure on Falcon)(?)
-1


I honestly think Sheik is our hardest MU in terms of overall difficultly, didn't include DK because i don't know about him never faced one. I don't think Marth is even anymore but i've yet to have exp against him outside of secondary Marths that suck, Ike is not only the best FE character but also the one i play the most. Now that MU is even, Marth lately is reaching Pac-Man/Greninja level theory. Where is his strong players? Ally vs Tyrant happened but his Marth got blown away, as theory heavy Greninja is there's actualfootage of MK vs Greninja at mid-high level where Greninja is abusing his kit and MK working around it. Marth is just all talk but no bite atm.

I'm trying my hardest to reduce the amount of theory used, in theory Sheik should invalidate MK because of neutral game. Its very hard to discuss MUs since range for some reason means we lose.

Edit: MK vs Ryu has happened but Zex MK is laughable while 6wx Ryu is well trained. Kinda imbalanced didn't gain anything from watching that other than thinking Zex should drop MK.

I assume by she, you specifically meant Peach and Rosalina.

Every female that isn't Sheik pretty much.

 

[Jamurai]

@ Krysco

If you like ROB then play ROB, I wouldn't say he covers any bad MUs though. The only ones you might really want to cover are ZSS and Greninja and (correct if I'm wrong) I don't think ROB does particularly well in either of them.

By the way man your font colour is painful lol, I had to ctrl+A to read your post.

 

[Pazx]

D1 commentating Tyrant playing MK vs ZSS must be the entire MK board's worst nightmare.

 

[warionumbah2]

How bad was it?

 

[Gemba Board]

Well, the match is over. He almost pulled off a bair jab-lock in the first moments of the first match, and closed with a Dimensional Cape read. He won 2-0, and his name is Gemba. Also, Tyrant was commentating that set lol.

Edit: Sorry about the double post.

That was me. I didn't make it out of pools. I haven't played in a while and my matchup knowledge is old and rusty. I did what I could to represent the bat cave but a dedede player took me out. I played that match like garbage. Sorry friends

 

[Jamurai]

No worries. From what I remember you just needed to convert more stuff, you hit some Uairs and if you had followed up on opportunities like that properly I believe you would have 2-0'd the D3. It's easy to say that and more difficult to perform in a big tournament tho, I would imagine.

 

[warionumbah2]

Learn the percents when uair combo's work, gotta abuse what everyone fears. Not enough uair combo's to death at paragon even tyrant didn't abuse it as hard, he did against ZSS tho.

Its not like its hard as ito butt blasted tearbear with uair combo's as well as others EVERY GAME. Now thats the level of punishes MKs should reach.

Its cool getting uair combo's in one game but in TOs you wanna do this all the time consistently.

 

[Oblivion129]

A local friend has a really good DK and I'd say MK has the advantage. DK's recovery is exploitable with Bair and KOs DK pretty early considering his weight, because you can get him off at like 70% and hitting him with a Bair off stage won't KO but will force him to recover predictably so you can land yet another Bair.

Having the percent advantage is really important, though, since DK can KO pretty early with a read or grab (Dtilt trip, grab to Uthrow Uair) if you need to approach. Otherwise, you shouldn't be at his dash grab range or Dtilt range anyways.