Legend of Zelda The Milk Bar [Archived]

[SkylerOcon]

Which one?

And Majora's Mask was a fun game, but I always have trouble at the part at the beginning where you play tag. I'm horrible at that.

 

[comboking]

Have you guys heard of the DoT skip

 

[Corimon]

Loved OoT.

I'm sad I haven't gotten my hands on Master Quest however. :<

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I'm such a horrible gamer, especially Zelda games, I get stuck at the dumbest things.

TP was my first Zelda game, and I downloaded OoT on the VC now, and it is so much harder.

Even with that one Nintendo Power map of OoT I get stuck and have to look it up on a walkthrough, because I don't really care about looking for the answers in OoT, it's more of a game to just pass the time for me.

I wish TP had more sidequests though, for the most part they were pretty easy, too.

Remember that Balloon Popping thing, the one the parrot tells you about? Seriously, all you have to do is

Spoiler

get a row of 10 red ones,

which can be solved through simple math in your head and is way too easy.

 

[Exovel]

One of the TOP 10 games of all time. Maybe even top five. Fantastic in every way. Of course, my favorite games are still Sonic 2 and TMNT: The Hyperstone Heist for the Genesis. Purely epic.

 

[comboking]

yup ocarina of time rocks

 

[brawlpro]

Omg Water Temple Sux!1

 

[S2]

I disagree, the Water Temple is part of what makes OOT good.
There is a problem when a Zelda game comes out and there isn't a dungeon that is that hard.

Let me preface this by saying, basically all players got through the Water Temple. Even if it took them forever, they did it.

Having a dungeon that's very difficult gives a sense of accomplishment. A decade later, the water temple serves as one of the primary factors that ties people back to the game. Everyone thought it was hard, but somehow made it through.


Frankly, if the dungeons aren't puzzling enough then they really leave little impression on the player after they're cleared. Where as, a player basically never forgets a dungeon that stumped them for a bit, but ultimately they overcame.


Sadly, I don't think Nintendo even realizes that one of Zelda's strongest points is the puzzles, since they seem to be getting easier after MM.

It'd almost be wiser to simply have the puzzles be very hard, but allow Navi/Midna/talking stone/etc to give hints so obvious that anyone could get through if they were not good at puzzles. Not that all dungeons need to be hard, but the later ones should.

Then again, that's my philosophy about game making. A game for everyone should be challanging enough that the hardcore are satisfied, but engaging enough that the casual gamer is going to pay for it and enjoy it thoroughly.

Dumbing a game down so that the lowest possible age-group can have fun doesn't work. Children can handle and enjoy hard games. Anyone who grew up in the NES era will attes to that. If its so much of a concern, games like Metroid Prime 3 had "normal" and "veteran". Which most gamers immediately realized was a nice way of saying "easy" and "normal".

 

[brawlpro]

S2 I was being sarcastic to the OP, you'd get it if you took a look at it again. To be real I like Water Temple, because it seemed to make me feel too good when I figured something in it out since ...figuring stuff out in that temple was hard and took time, for me.

 

[The rAt]

I'm such a horrible gamer, especially Zelda games, I get stuck at the dumbest things.

TP was my first Zelda game, and I downloaded OoT on the VC now, and it is so much harder.

Even with that one Nintendo Power map of OoT I get stuck and have to look it up on a walkthrough, because I don't really care about looking for the answers in OoT, it's more of a game to just pass the time for me.

Heh, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you weren't gaming when the original Legend of Zelda came out (before gamefaqs, and let's face it, games that actually gave you some semblance of direction). I gotta say, not to sound condescending, but I don't understand the point of playing a game if you just look things up everytime you get stuck. I mean, why not just watch someone else play it and eliminate the button pushing?

I disagree, the Water Temple is part of what makes OOT good.
There is a problem when a Zelda game comes out and there isn't a dungeon that is that hard.

Let me preface this by saying, basically all players got through the Water Temple. Even if it took them forever, they did it.

Having a dungeon that's very difficult gives a sense of accomplishment. A decade later, the water temple serves as one of the primary factors that ties people back to the game. Everyone thought it was hard, but somehow made it through.


Frankly, if the dungeons aren't puzzling enough then they really leave little impression on the player after they're cleared. Where as, a player basically never forgets a dungeon that stumped them for a bit, but ultimately they overcame.


Sadly, I don't think Nintendo even realizes that one of Zelda's strongest points is the puzzles, since they seem to be getting easier after MM.

It'd almost be wiser to simply have the puzzles be very hard, but allow Navi/Midna/talking stone/etc to give hints so obvious that anyone could get through if they were not good at puzzles. Not that all dungeons need to be hard, but the later ones should.

Then again, that's my philosophy about game making. A game for everyone should be challanging enough that the hardcore are satisfied, but engaging enough that the casual gamer is going to pay for it and enjoy it thoroughly.

Dumbing a game down so that the lowest possible age-group can have fun doesn't work. Children can handle and enjoy hard games. Anyone who grew up in the NES era will attes to that. If its so much of a concern, games like Metroid Prime 3 had "normal" and "veteran". Which most gamers immediately realized was a nice way of saying "easy" and "normal".

First, an addendum; I do still say that the Water Temple sucked. In my opinion, that is. Because I feel like requiring lots of backtrackng and memorization of every possible variation of the same environment are lazy way to increase the level of challenge. I hate having to go back and find the one room containing the puzzle you could not solve before, but now can. Not because I find it hard to recall those puzzles later, but because of the excessive ammount of time it takes to remember WHERE it was. Specifically in the case of the Water Temple, I had it figured out relatively quickly, I just couldn't find the room I was looking for. To me, that doesn't test your problem solving ability, it tests your ability to micromanage every detail of the dungeon.

However, that said, I totally agree with you. Games have been going downhill in terms of skill required to beat them for quite some time, and when they are challenging, it is often the result of the cheap "fairy collecting" tactics I mentioned earlier as a strike against Majora's Mask. Personally, I think it represents a shift in popular values. Used to be when people wanted to play a video game, they wanted a challenge, something they could work at to improve upon. Now people just want to be able to say that they beat it so they can brag to their friends. Beating a game like Super Mario Bros. 3 when it first came out was a badge of honor, and something not everyone without a Game Genie could claim. Beating games like Mario Galaxy are a given (although, quite not a bad game when played to its fullest extent, which I note, is not required to beat it). Most of the older gamers who remember what it was like to get their butt kicked time and time again by the likes of the original Zelda or Kid Icharus or any number of similar old school games, have moved on to other pursuits, and what is left is largely the popularized mainstream audience, only a fraction of whom actually want a game that challenges them. Still, even a fraction of the current video game audience is still quite a large number, and fortunately not all games are like Star Fox Adventures or Wind Waker (no offense to anyone who thought either of those two games were hard).

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Heh, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you weren't gaming when the original Legend of Zelda came out (before gamefaqs, and let's face it, games that actually gave you some semblance of direction). I gotta say, not to sound condescending, but I don't understand the point of playing a game if you just look things up everytime you get stuck. I mean, why not just watch someone else play it and eliminate the button pushing?

Yup, I haven't been gaming for very long.

And I would watch people playing, if anyone I knew were a gamer.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i feel that in oot ganondorf is a good guy who overreacts. He sees a bunch of so called monsters living is the wilderness no home getting killed by people with swords. So he decides to take over a town to give the so called monsters a place to stay. He let mud zombies live in the town square and even let many diffrent types of these "monsters" live in his castle with him.

Is this really that evil he overreacts by taking over a town when maybe he should of tried biulding houses for them but for as violent and evil as he was said to be most people seemed to just move to the other town near by they were not killed just how evil could ganondorf be he is almost just equal to a person who really loves animals its like if the crazy cat lady takes over your house to but her cats in it wrong but to try and help out cats.

 

[The rAt]

i feel that in oot ganondorf is a good guy who overreacts. He sees a bunch of so called monsters living is the wilderness no home getting killed by people with swords. So he decides to take over a town to give the so called monsters a place to stay. He let mud zombies live in the town square and even let many diffrent types of these "monsters" live in his castle with him.

Is this really that evil he overreacts by taking over a town when maybe he should of tried biulding houses for them but for as violent and evil as he was said to be most people seemed to just move to the other town near by they were not killed just how evil could ganondorf be he is almost just equal to a person who really loves animals its like if the crazy cat lady takes over your house to but her cats in it wrong but to try and help out cats.

Wow. It took me a little while to tell if you're actually serious.

Okay, so good and evil really are a spectrum. There is a little bit of both in everyone, and it isn't like there is a specific, agreed-upon line which, when crossed changes ones entire being to fit the profile of one or the other. There are slivers of good in the worst (human) villains and there is evil in even the most righteous of (human) heroes. Most villains don't see themselves as "evil" persay, because they believe they believe their actions, however extreme are justified.

That said, Gannondorf, as portrayed in OoT, falls firmly in the camp of evil. First of all, nothing about Castle town implies that Gannondorf gently relocated its citizens to Kakariko (sp? I can never get that one right) Village or is even aware of their surivival, and neither is there any particularly strong evidence that he has any empathy towards "monsters". They are mere pawns, meant as an obstacle for the Hero of Time; if he actually cared about them, why would he allow them to be slaughtered in droves by Link?
In OoT, it is fairly clear that his ambitions are selfish. He wants the triforce for himself, and if it were really for selfless reasons, then his heart would have been balanced and the triforce would never have split. And even if he was misguided, but with noble intentions, he would have been far more likely to end up with a triforce peice representing a trait like Wisdom, than Power. Now does selfishness make a character evil? No. Does wiping a town off the map conspiring to commit treason and murder, kidnapping, stealing, and any number of other crimes for the purpose of obtaining God-like power to satisfy his every whim? I'd say so.

I think it's worth noting, however, that Wind Waker does expand his character a bit (one of the things I actually liked about it). It implies that, in part, his actions were motivated by bettering the fate of the Gerudo tribe, as well as the hardships he had to endure. Still, the ends do not justify the means, and there is most often another, albeit harder way to accomplish truly noble goals, and I don't see it as redeeming his character, so much as making it more human and tragic and easier to understand.

 

[XACE-K]

My only TP complaint is that Zant turned out to be lame (when you first met him you are like "wow this dude is BA" and then you see him without his mask >_> ).

Yeah.

The same thing happened to me too. I thought he was awesome but then he made all those wierd noises during the boss fight andthen I thought,"Zant is a f*****."

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

The rAt do u think i am serious?

Also saying he was using them as pawns were is the evidence of that we don't know if he knew that link was killing them first of all and have you ever wondered why more "monsters" show up after you kill them its b/c of "monster" overpopulation he is trying to help so many he can't keep track of whats going on with all of them. Also how would he not know that people lived and moved the town is like 10feet away he must of known.

And you might be saying he is evil now but just wait one day if you ever become a mud zombie thing you will be hoping a man like him comes along to give you a place to live

Note: the skelton solders in his castle might of been the onces that had to live under ground when link was young i mean they are not there when you are older plus they might be the grown up versions this is just a theory

 

[The rAt]

Yup, I haven't been gaming for very long.

And I would watch people playing, if anyone I knew were a gamer.

Everyone's got to start somewhere, right? And it sounds like you should get a copy of Brawl if you don't already have it. As someone who usually enjoys playing more than watching, I have a hard time putting the Spectator Mode down, so I expect you'd enjoy it.

The rAt do u think i am serious?

Also saying he was using them as pawns were is the evidence of that we don't know if he knew that link was killing them first of all and have you ever wondered why more "monsters" show up after you kill them its b/c of "monster" overpopulation he is trying to help so many he can't keep track of whats going on with all of them. Also how would he not know that people lived and moved the town is like 10feet away he must of known.

And you might be saying he is evil now but just wait one day if you ever become a mud zombie thing you will be hoping a man like him comes along to give you a place to live

Note: the skelton solders in his castle might of been the onces that had to live under ground when link was young i mean they are not there when you are older plus they might be the grown up versions this is just a theory

Well, having seen, post-posting (heh, I crack me up), that you had set up a thread for that single issue, and in it claimed that it is only a joke, no I do not think you are serious. However, just by reading your post(s), I would tend to think you were. That's probably because in this forum, I've seen people make some pretty ridiculous statements in all seriousness, so I tend to assume people mean what they say. But since you are apparently speaking in jest, I don't see the point in arguing about it anymore.

Also, if I ever turn into a Redead (mud zombie thing), I WILL be coming for your brains. Redeads like brains. And crazy screaming noises. Fire, not so much.

EDIT: Complete side note, but did anyone else really loath Redeads? Getting ready for a nice slashfest only to be frozen by that screaming noise? And what about Wallmasters (the hands that come from above)? You're just minding your own business questing about, perhaps searching for bow with which to shoot things, only for a giant decrepit hand to pop out of nowhere and drag you back to the entrance, kicking and screaming. Well, mostly just screaming.

 

[graves]

Agreed on that Meleeruler.

I thought Zant was so awesome.

I was very disappointed when his face was revealed.

You thought it was gonna be cool after you saw just the chin and mouth.

Not to mention his voice.

Zant seems the offspring of a prostitute Oocca.

Yeah i hated that!

 

[SkylerOcon]

This thread will survive!

And Zant was always ugly and stupid looking. One of the things that I didn't like about TP was that they could have made really cool looking characters, but instead choose not to.

And I thought redeads were some of the easiest monsters to play in the game. Play the song of the sun and they're frozen. Just slash through and get a few hearts in the process.

 

[comboking]

I like ocarina of time speed runs does anyone else?!

 

[colored blind]

OoT is one of my favorite games ever. I loved the Master Quest edition--there were no guides at the time I beat it, so when I did, I knew it was something because not everyone could just go online and look it up.

Water Temple was definitely memorable. I actually liked it; the first half was totally worth it for the Dark Link fight, as was the latter half to fight Morpha. I didn't think it was hard at all; maybe a little brain melting with all the running back and forth, but not too bad.

Forest Temple and Spirit Temple are still absolutely amazing dungeons. Nothing I've seen since has really matched up in terms of level design and attention to detail. Ingenious.

On the subject of Zant...I liked him so much more as he is in the end. He was very lame and the archetypal wannabe-badass type boss in the beginning. His lunacy was a breath of fresh air for the Zelda series, and I really liked that he was much more than he let on in the beginning.

Skull Kid was ten times cooler, though. Awesome antagonist.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Ocarina of time was good, but I liked more Majora's Mask for it's intriguing storyline and it's pretty anime style. While Majora's Mask is seriously in debth with Ocarina Of Time for most of the recicled stuff. And it was pretty funny seeing the old chars on OOT in new roles, the Twinrowa sisters Koume and Kotake in primis. The parallel dimension effect was rendered very well.

 

[FootFace]

Ocarina of time was good, but I liked more Majora's Mask for it's intriguing storyline and it's pretty anime style. While Majora's Mask is seriously in debth with Ocarina Of Time for most of the recicled stuff. And it was pretty funny seeing the old chars on OOT in new roles, the Twinrowa sisters Koume and Kotake in primis. The parallel dimension effect was rendered very well.

True, I did love Majora's anime styles, but for some reason I liked Ocarinas story better. I also loved the Ocarina playing to warp or do different things in the world.

 

[S2]

Yeah, MM was awesome. Although i do prefer OOT.

I've said it before, the reason MM was so well recieved was because the 64 had already gotten a traditional Zelda title.

Which brings me to Wind Waker, a great game that wasn't a conventional Zelda either. To be honest, if TP had come out first... I think WW would have been much more widely accepted and loved for what it was artistically.

That is, on 64 Nintendo gave fans what they wanted then followed up with a unconventional sequel. On GC we got the unconventional sequel and then the traditional game.

Just a thought.

 

[SkylerOcon]

Well, Wind Waker was very much like a regular Zelda game. Just a bunch of Graphic obsessed idiots (Graphics don't make the games, dumb****s) walked up and said 'LOLZ WTF HAPPENED TO LINK!1 THIS GAME IS T3H SUX!1' and didn't buy it.

It was a fun game, though. I still haven't beaten Majora's Mask.

 

[Spire]

Majora > Ganon, Zant, Agahnim, Vaati, Dark Link

In all honesty, I think the Zelda series needs to grow up. No more linear storyline (yeah yeah, you can explore all you want, but you have to defeat the x amount of dungeons, get the new item inside, and use it to defeat the boss of the dungeon so you can collect some thing in order to further the game). I want a huge, open-ended Zelda game with many optional dungeons scattered throughout a huge world (Hyrule or not).

 

[S2]

I'm going to disagree that Wind Waker was a "regular Zelda".

Most obviously is the fact that the game isn't in the usual Hyrule, there is no main overworld landmass. The usual overworld is gone and replaced by the ocean instead.

That simple choice completely changes the flow of the game. Add in the fact that unlike most Zeldas, where the overworld has limited secrets but lots of dungeons... Wind waker featured only 5 real dungeons before the final one (there are a few miny dungeons) but a massive amount of optional content.


As for Spire, I disagree that Zelda needs to change. The formula each adheres to is what has kept that franchise so popular. Story driven games are massively popular and the story/characters of Zelda are one of the primary reasons its endearing.

"Growing up" implies that the franchise is aimed at children, which its not. There is nothing more grown up about open world RPGs over action adventures. Genres aren't age specific in audience.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Majora > Ganon, Zant, Agahnim, Vaati, Dark Link

In all honesty, I think the Zelda series needs to grow up. No more linear storyline (yeah yeah, you can explore all you want, but you have to defeat the x amount of dungeons, get the new item inside, and use it to defeat the boss of the dungeon so you can collect some thing in order to further the game). I want a huge, open-ended Zelda game with many optional dungeons scattered throughout a huge world (Hyrule or not).

I get what you you mean.
I loved the free roaming in Bully, Scholarship Edition, and I would love it to be applied to the Zelda Series. And I feel it's possible without compromising the style we always loved.

 

[The rAt]

Well, Wind Waker was very much like a regular Zelda game. Just a bunch of Graphic obsessed idiots (Graphics don't make the games, dumb****s) walked up and said 'LOLZ WTF HAPPENED TO LINK!1 THIS GAME IS T3H SUX!1' and didn't buy it.

It was a fun game, though. I still haven't beaten Majora's Mask.

As someone who was not a big fan of the Wind Waker Cell-Shaded graphics, I take offense to that statement.

Don't get me wrong, there were people who just took a single glance at Wind Waker and wrote it off, but there were also a lot of people who sat down, played the game, and decided for themselves that they didn't like the graphical style. I happen to be one of the latter.

You're totally right that graphics don't make the game, but by the same token, graphics CAN kill a game. Why do you think nobody makes 8-bit pixelated games ala Mario Bros. anymore? Because less people would buy them.

Personally, my objection with the cell-graphics of Wind Waker was that it just wasn't consistent with what the series had become since the N64. Not only that, but I thought the technique could have done wonders for the Mario series because of it's already cartoony, playful atmosphere. But I suppose my opinions on Wind Waker are a side note; my point was that there are plenty of well-rounded gamers who didn't like the Wind Waker style, not just the "graphic obsessed idiots."

Majora > Ganon, Zant, Agahnim, Vaati, Dark Link

In all honesty, I think the Zelda series needs to grow up. No more linear storyline (yeah yeah, you can explore all you want, but you have to defeat the x amount of dungeons, get the new item inside, and use it to defeat the boss of the dungeon so you can collect some thing in order to further the game). I want a huge, open-ended Zelda game with many optional dungeons scattered throughout a huge world (Hyrule or not).

I'd have to disagree a bit. Not to say that the Zelda series couldn't benefit from opening up a bit more, but personally, I prefer more dungeons and less optional content. That's not to say the world shouldn't get bigger. But I personally don't enjoy collecting every single piece of heart and rupee there is to find in the game. This is mainly because without the aid of guides (which is how I prefer to play) it can be quite an undertaking, and the payoff is usually fairly minimal. So far, I can beat Zelda games without getting extra hearts, and while at first, it is nice to have the extra health, it is certainly not worth it for me to run around in circles, combing the same areas I've been through multiple times just to complete that last heart, so I can have one more measely unit of health. But that's just me.
By contrast, I would like a Zelda game with optional content that packs more of a punch. I'm talking optional weapons (like the Goron Sword), items (like the Magic Cape in LttP), and tunics (like the armor in LA:DX); things that make the game easier or unlock secret areas, or at least provide some cosmetic difference. I want more trading sequences (which are easier than collect quests, because ideally all you have to do is pay attention to what people say and remember it) and hidden areas. If they cut down on the pieces of heart and gold skulltulas/bugs and replace them with meaningful sidequests with more useful rewards, then I don't think you need to increase the ammount of optional content.
Plus, I loves my dungeons, and I wants more of em.

I'm going to disagree that Wind Waker was a "regular Zelda".

Most obviously is the fact that the game isn't in the usual Hyrule, there is no main overworld landmass. The usual overworld is gone and replaced by the ocean instead.

That simple choice completely changes the flow of the game. Add in the fact that unlike most Zeldas, where the overworld has limited secrets but lots of dungeons... Wind waker featured only 5 real dungeons before the final one (there are a few miny dungeons) but a massive amount of optional content.


As for Spire, I disagree that Zelda needs to change. The formula each adheres to is what has kept that franchise so popular. Story driven games are massively popular and the story/characters of Zelda are one of the primary reasons its endearing.

"Growing up" implies that the franchise is aimed at children, which its not. There is nothing more grown up about open world RPGs over action adventures. Genres aren't age specific in audience.

Wind Waker is a "regular" Zelda in one, very important way; plot. Every odd numbered Zelda through Wind Waker (after that, I lost track with Minish Cap, Four Swords, ect.) introduces a new Link and a new Zelda, while re-introducing Ganon/dorf, establishes their motivations and roles, and puts Hyrule in mortal danger. True, not all of Wind Waker takes place in Hyrule proper, but its fate is dealt with in the course of the story.
By contrast every odd Zelda game through Wind Waker is a sequel to the one before it; it is assumed that you are already familiar with Link and his adventures, Zelda and Hyrule are less involved in the story or entirely absent and Ganon/dorf is nowhere to be found, having been defeated for the time being in the previous game.

While it is true that the overworld being a giant (and maddening ) body of water filled with islands does change the gamplay in a significant way, so did OoT, when it came out by bringing the series into 3d or Twilight Princess by introducing Wii controls. I'll grant your point about Wind Waker having less dungeons and more collect quests and exploration than previous games (except Majora's Mask), but I seem to remember that having a lot to do with lack of time in development. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that there were intended to be several more temples, but they were ommitted because of lack of time.

I agree, though, that the Zelda series isn't in need of "growing up."

On a side note, how did we get this far off of OoT? Perhaps the creator of the thread should modify the title, so as to include the entire Zelda series?

 

[ThreeX]

Yea, definately one of the best game's i've ever played.. but stop your hating on the water temple, it is GOOD that they made it challenging, would you want every temple to be like the deku tree?

I read on the first page, someone talk about the water temple's music.. yea, i actually liked that music, but the temple that got my favorite was the fire temple :$ idk why, i love it... and of course, gerudo valley is amazing =P

One thing i really don't like about OoT was the Dark link fight, they made it much too easy, and not that enjoying... for example, the witches/twinrova fight was amazing... you got to do something you had never done before, charge your shield, shoot fire/ice.. it was probably one of my favorite bosses, but when you see dark link, it's like.. wow this might be a sword fight, and since he does basically the same thing as you, hopefully you'll beable to do something... unique in this fight. But no, your left with two options, din's fire, or the megaton hammer c'mon now.. link is cooler then that.

enough of my rambling, this game is amazing, to whoever "put this game down" or never finished it, what is wrong with you... go get it again, and beat it.. and while your at it, finish master quest, that is amazing too, especially when your adapted to how OoT is, the puzzles really do trick you.

 

[mitsukeru]

Possibly the best Zelda game ever.
Even though I caught a glitch half way through and had to start all over again, other than that it was the best.
I wish they re-made the game exactly the same with new graphics and released it on Wii. But that would never happen.

 

[ThreeX]

Nah, if they're going to do a re-make of a game, I'd love to see link to the past, it is by far MY favorite zelda game, and i'm not saying this because of the majority of people, saying the same...

when i was growing up, my parents had bought me a SNES for x-mas, and Link to the Past, was the first game they bought. It's simply amazing, i love the 16-bit sprites, everything about it is beautifullllll :D Link to the past is the first thing that comes to my mind, when mentioning Zelda, and seeing it in 3D, EVEN THOUGH, it might be strange, and maybe kill it.. idk, i'd love to see it...

just my opinion :]

 

[SkylerOcon]

On a side note, how did we get this far off of OoT? Perhaps the creator of the thread should modify the title, so as to include the entire Zelda series?

Fixed.

And I have to agree -- the Zelda series does need some changes in terms of gameplay. The formula of find weapon, kill boss, next dungeon, new weapon is getting really old. A few optional dungeons, optional weapons, and maybe even an alternate ending if all dungeons are beaten would do the series good. However, the story shouldn't change..

 

[Warriors]

between ocarina of time, wind waker, and twilight princess

ocarina was a better overall adventure and much more challenging than the others
wind waker had SO MANY sidequest that made you play the game longer(figurine collecting in particular)but way too easy but the funniest zelda game
twilight was amazing looking with great scenes and gameplay. everything's design was upgraded. too easy though.

i think the best one wass wind waker

 

[The rAt]

Fixed.

And I have to agree -- the Zelda series does need some changes in terms of gameplay. The formula of find weapon, kill boss, next dungeon, new weapon is getting really old. A few optional dungeons, optional weapons, and maybe even an alternate ending if all dungeons are beaten would do the series good. However, the story shouldn't change..

Excellent. I've been waiting for a new general Zelda thread to come along since the last one died a few years ago. Just don't get me started on continuity or this thread will jump to several hundred pages.

Nah, if they're going to do a re-make of a game, I'd love to see link to the past, it is by far MY favorite zelda game, and i'm not saying this because of the majority of people, saying the same...

when i was growing up, my parents had bought me a SNES for x-mas, and Link to the Past, was the first game they bought. It's simply amazing, i love the 16-bit sprites, everything about it is beautifullllll :D Link to the past is the first thing that comes to my mind, when mentioning Zelda, and seeing it in 3D, EVEN THOUGH, it might be strange, and maybe kill it.. idk, i'd love to see it...

just my opinion :]

A LttP remake, eh? I dunno, about that. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was a great game, but I can't help thinking that bringing it into 3d would kill it. I mean, it's already so similar to OoT in structure, I feel like those similarities would be highlighted.

Also, I'd never accuse you of liking LttP because the majority of Zelda fans agree with you because these days I'd doubt the majority like LttP best. There seems to be a huge divide between the fans who like the traditional story elements of the odd games (LoZ, LttP, OoT) and TP, and those who like the new elements most often introduced in the even games (AoL, LA, MM) and Wind Waker. In those camps you seem to have even splits respectively between the OoT fans and the LttP fans, and the Wind Waker fans and the Majora's Mask fans. Toss in the old school gamers who never got past the original two, and it's pretty tough to find a clear majority.

Personally, OoT will probably always be my favorite because it was one of the games that got me back into gaming during the N64 era, but at the same time, just like LttP, remaking it really could kill it.

 

[Spire]

I don't think some of you understood what I was saying. Yes, the next Zelda needs to have numerous dungeons that are necessary for progress through the main storyline, but just as there are necessary dungeons, there need to be optional dungeons also. I too am not a big fan of collecting all of the pieces of heart, and other collectibles (although what else are you going to do once you have done EVERYTHING else?) and that is why I think that larger-scaled optional content should greatly influence how you play the game. Like what the Rat said - more tunics, weapons, etc, etc would be GREAT. I completely agree with that and that is something that I would love to have in the next game.

I am tired of wearing the same gear over and over (and collecting a couple of extra tunics for special use). I would rather have an arsenal of swords, tunics, boots, gauntlets, helms, and shields, along with all of the other items. I would hate to see Zelda fall off the cliff with weapons in that are only used for fighting (like the Elder Scrolls series). I love that all of the weapons and gadgets can be used for puzzle-solving and combating, and I would never want that taken away, but so many weapons feel incredibly limited. Your sword has always been the focus of combat, with the bow as an easy secondary. However, there are clever weapons like the hookshot, megaton hammer, ball & chain, etc, etc. that are a bit more difficult to use and don't have as great of an effect or design to the way you use them.

Just as the sword has a whole array of techniques and what not, I think the other weapons should be refined to match your sword, so it does not have to be your primary weapon. Perhaps some people might want to focus primarily on the bow, or a heavier weapon (like the examples mentioned before) but don't want to be limited as to how to use them. It would definitely add to the range of the gameplay mechanics - both in combat and other usage with all of the tools that you have.

Now, to get back to my original point. I would love to see every single area of Hyrule expanded immensely - with many more towns and settlements to visit. Now to counter what I just said, I do not necessarily want the next game to be based in Hyrule. It would be great to explore a whole new world - so we do not know what to expect at all. When I ventured into Ikana Canyon in Majora's Mask, I felt renewed completely. That region was the anchor for how different Majora's Mask felt to me (despite how different everything else was). Nevertheless, what world the next game is based in should not interfere with what the game needs - and that is much, much, much more content. I think the reason that TP was so limited was because it was made for the Gamecube. If it was specifically made for the Wii, then it would have probably been considerably larger and much more refined.

Not to sound redundant, but again, I would love to see the world greatly expansive - taking days (in game) to trek across, with many areas not accessible until certain parts in the game (necessary or optional). I would love to see a wide variety of equipment - both found in the wild, in dungeons, and purchased in stores (all vendors in Zelda games are rendered pointless other than buying one-of-a-kind equipment or restocking on supplies). I would love to see a world in real-time, with people migrating from city to city (meaning you actually see them traveling through the wilderness - which has really not been done before at all), people actually dying over time, merchants upgrading their shops, and some retiring, etc, etc. I would love to see a world that is constantly changing. Also, factions should play a huge part in how people interact with each other (both through race, class, alignment, etc). Imagine a group of demolitionists from Kakariko climbing Death Mountain (which needs to take a great amount of time to do so - scaling all kinds of canyons, nooks, crannies, ledges etc, all around the mountain) and as they are trying to blow up a part of it, a couple of Gorons become enraged and scare them away or kill them. Also, you should be able to attack pretty much anyone you want - giving you much more freedom.

As for who you play as - I propose that you should be able to create your own character, choosing your race, gender, height, weight, skin color, hair style/color, eye color, tattoos, etc, etc. I don't like the "class" system that is evident in many RPG's, for I think the only thing to affect your gameplay is your race and how you want to play. Imagine being able to choose from a Hylian, Hyrulean, Sheikah, Goron, Zora, Gerudo (female only), Kokiri (maybe), or even a Deku Scrub, amongst any other races that may be included. The possibilities would be endless, and the replay value would be immeasurable.

 

[Spire]

Sorry to doublepost, but I don't think this post would merge well with the last. Anyways, I stumbled onto this image for the first time in quite a while now, and recognized how remarkable the graphics are:

What gets to me is that this is a beta screen from the development of Twilight Princess, and no area in the actual game looks this detailed. My guess is that they realized that they had to dumb down the graphics so that it would all fit on a small Gamecube disc. Anyone else hope for graphics like this [or better] for the next Zelda?

EDIT: To say that I posted an important response at the end of Pg. 5. Continue discussion please.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I don't think some of you understood what I was saying. Yes, the next Zelda needs to have numerous dungeons that are necessary for progress through the main storyline, but just as there are necessary dungeons, there need to be optional dungeons also. I too am not a big fan of collecting all of the pieces of heart, and other collectibles (although what else are you going to do once you have done EVERYTHING else?) and that is why I think that larger-scaled optional content should greatly influence how you play the game. Like what the Rat said - more tunics, weapons, etc, etc would be GREAT. I completely agree with that and that is something that I would love to have in the next game.

I am tired of wearing the same gear over and over (and collecting a couple of extra tunics for special use). I would rather have an arsenal of swords, tunics, boots, gauntlets, helms, and shields, along with all of the other items. I would hate to see Zelda fall off the cliff with weapons in that are only used for fighting (like the Elder Scrolls series). I love that all of the weapons and gadgets can be used for puzzle-solving and combating, and I would never want that taken away, but so many weapons feel incredibly limited. Your sword has always been the focus of combat, with the bow as an easy secondary. However, there are clever weapons like the hookshot, megaton hammer, ball & chain, etc, etc. that are a bit more difficult to use and don't have as great of an effect or design to the way you use them.

Just as the sword has a whole array of techniques and what not, I think the other weapons should be refined to match your sword, so it does not have to be your primary weapon. Perhaps some people might want to focus primarily on the bow, or a heavier weapon (like the examples mentioned before) but don't want to be limited as to how to use them. It would definitely add to the range of the gameplay mechanics - both in combat and other usage with all of the tools that you have.

Now, to get back to my original point. I would love to see every single area of Hyrule expanded immensely - with many more towns and settlements to visit. Now to counter what I just said, I do not necessarily want the next game to be based in Hyrule. It would be great to explore a whole new world - so we do not know what to expect at all. When I ventured into Ikana Canyon in Majora's Mask, I felt renewed completely. That region was the anchor for how different Majora's Mask felt to me (despite how different everything else was). Nevertheless, what world the next game is based in should not interfere with what the game needs - and that is much, much, much more content. I think the reason that TP was so limited was because it was made for the Gamecube. If it was specifically made for the Wii, then it would have probably been considerably larger and much more refined.

Not to sound redundant, but again, I would love to see the world greatly expansive - taking days (in game) to trek across, with many areas not accessible until certain parts in the game (necessary or optional). I would love to see a wide variety of equipment - both found in the wild, in dungeons, and purchased in stores (all vendors in Zelda games are rendered pointless other than buying one-of-a-kind equipment or restocking on supplies). I would love to see a world in real-time, with people migrating from city to city (meaning you actually see them traveling through the wilderness - which has really not been done before at all), people actually dying over time, merchants upgrading their shops, and some retiring, etc, etc. I would love to see a world that is constantly changing. Also, factions should play a huge part in how people interact with each other (both through race, class, alignment, etc). Imagine a group of demolitionists from Kakariko climbing Death Mountain (which needs to take a great amount of time to do so - scaling all kinds of canyons, nooks, crannies, ledges etc, all around the mountain) and as they are trying to blow up a part of it, a couple of Gorons become enraged and scare them away or kill them. Also, you should be able to attack pretty much anyone you want - giving you much more freedom.

As for who you play as - I propose that you should be able to create your own character, choosing your race, gender, height, weight, skin color, hair style/color, eye color, tattoos, etc, etc. I don't like the "class" system that is evident in many RPG's, for I think the only thing to affect your gameplay is your race and how you want to play. Imagine being able to choose from a Hylian, Hyrulean, Sheikah, Goron, Zora, Gerudo (female only), Kokiri (maybe), or even a Deku Scrub, amongst any other races that may be included. The possibilities would be endless, and the replay value would be immeasurable.

So, essentially, you want a Zelda MMO. That would be a cool idea, but would it work?

However, if you don't want that (though thats what you did describe) I think we should just stick to Link. However, more emphasis on the bow and other weapons would be good.

 

[Spire]

So, essentially, you want a Zelda MMO. That would be a cool idea, but would it work?

However, if you don't want that (though thats what you did describe) I think we should just stick to Link. However, more emphasis on the bow and other weapons would be good.

An MMO definitely crossed my mind, but that is not what I would like. I would rather it remain a single-player game but with many MMO-like features. Zelda has never been online, and that's part of the beauty in it. Each game is a single-player experience - YOU experience everything on your own, at your own pace, and doing it how you want to do it. MMO would tear the game to shreds for you would bring in a huge community of idiots, spamming, "WTS ZORA ARMOR +12 DEF 450 RUPEES," and, "LFG DeaTH MOuntaIN run wil pay 500 ruppes!"

Simply stated - it would collapse. A Zelda MMO would bomb like no other. It would no longer be Zelda. What makes Zelda, "Zelda" is the unique, single-player experience in which you explore, solve puzzles, crawl through dungeons, defeat bosses, and find new items all on your own. Yeah, there are a lot of single-player games that fall under this criteria - but not the Zelda criteria.

Now to go back to online - perhaps it could be an online game - but not your typical MMO. Perhaps you could play online with a few of your friends, but let's not lag Hyrule till kingdom come. Of course, this feature would probably be greatly criticized by critics for not being a completely open-ended MMORPG and would put a mark on what would otherwise be an incredible game.

Now, about "sticking to Link". I think to push that statement a bit, it should be "sticking to the characters of the Zelda franchise". Perhaps we'll see a game where we don't play as Link (and isn't some bizarre spinoff title like Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland or whatever..), but rather as Zelda, or Ganondorf. Zelda has always been a behind-the-scenes supporter, but never has she been the protagonist. And Ganondorf - he has always been the antagonist, but never has he seen the light of any other role (even as a supporting character). Super Smash Bros. Melee introduced Zelda and Ganondorf for the first time as playable characters, which was awesome. So we've played with the two of them, know how they feel, and have gotten to know them overall. However, we do not know them in this way as we would in the Zeldaverse. Imagine a game where Zelda is the protagonist and you can use powers similar to her arsenal in Smash Bros., but in a Zelda-style game (same goes for Ganondorf). The storyline for these two characters would be considerably different (the point of view would change how you play, what you do, etc, etc). Give it a thought. I think they would both prove to be very, very enjoyable.

 

[SkylerOcon]

An MMO definitely crossed my mind, but that is not what I would like. I would rather it remain a single-player game but with many MMO-like features. Zelda has never been online, and that's part of the beauty in it. Each game is a single-player experience - YOU experience everything on your own, at your own pace, and doing it how you want to do it. MMO would tear the game to shreds for you would bring in a huge community of idiots, spamming, "WTS ZORA ARMOR +12 DEF 450 RUPEES," and, "LFG DeaTH MOuntaIN run wil pay 500 ruppes!"

Simply stated - it would collapse. A Zelda MMO would bomb like no other. It would no longer be Zelda. What makes Zelda, "Zelda" is the unique, single-player experience in which you explore, solve puzzles, crawl through dungeons, defeat bosses, and find new items all on your own. Yeah, there are a lot of single-player games that fall under this criteria - but not the Zelda criteria.

Now to go back to online - perhaps it could be an online game - but not your typical MMO. Perhaps you could play online with a few of your friends, but let's not lag Hyrule till kingdom come. Of course, this feature would probably be greatly criticized by critics for not being a completely open-ended MMORPG and would put a mark on what would otherwise be an incredible game.

Now, about "sticking to Link". I think to push that statement a bit, it should be "sticking to the characters of the Zelda franchise". Perhaps we'll see a game where we don't play as Link (and isn't some bizarre spinoff title like Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland or whatever..), but rather as Zelda, or Ganondorf. Zelda has always been a behind-the-scenes supporter, but never has she been the protagonist. And Ganondorf - he has always been the antagonist, but never has he seen the light of any other role (even as a supporting character). Super Smash Bros. Melee introduced Zelda and Ganondorf for the first time as playable characters, which was awesome. So we've played with the two of them, know how they feel, and have gotten to know them overall. However, we do not know them in this way as we would in the Zeldaverse. Imagine a game where Zelda is the protagonist and you can use powers similar to her arsenal in Smash Bros., but in a Zelda-style game (same goes for Ganondorf). The storyline for these two characters would be considerably different (the point of view would change how you play, what you do, etc, etc). Give it a thought. I think they would both prove to be very, very enjoyable.

While what you described earlier was more of a make your own character, a game featuring Zelda and Ganon would be cool, though hard for Nintendo.

Speaking on the topic of an MMO, maybe it could be less like a traditional one (as you suggested). Like maybe we could introduce RPG elements to Zelda (such as being able to buy new swords. However, the Master Sword will remain close to the most powerful just as the Brotherhood weapon was for Tidus in FFX).

And then, you could get online for PvP, or maybe just to mess around with friends as you said. An untraditional level system in Zelda would be cool (such as, a system of you being able to upgrade your character, but infrequently and they wouldn't effect it that much. Just to show off or something). A Zelda MMO might work, but Nintendo would have to tread carefully and make sure that they don't screw stuff up like FFXI did.

I would definitely enjoy some sort of human to human interaction in Zelda (or maybe there could just be an option for the next LoZ game to be online, thats not even related to Link). If Nintendo handles it right, it would work.

 

[XACE-K]

Sorry to doublepost, but I don't think this post would merge well with the last. Anyways, I stumbled onto this image for the first time in quite a while now, and recognized how remarkable the graphics are:

What gets to me is that this is a beta screen from the development of Twilight Princess, and no area in the actual game looks this detailed. My guess is that they realized that they had to dumb down the graphics so that it would all fit on a small Gamecube disc. Anyone else hope for graphics like this [or better] for the next Zelda?

EDIT: To say that I posted an important response at the end of Pg. 5. Continue discussion please.

It would have been nice if the graphics were like that but they were still okay.