The Mewtwo MU Thread (That Kinda Rhymes!)

[AstraEDM]

Thanks man, that side-b into upsmash is going to help with getting % on the dodgy little yellow *******

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Side B combos into something on every character in the game and it disappoints me that I never see anyone use it

 

[Vale]

So, Mario has been mentioned a few times as a rough matchup. What are we supposed to do against him? The fireballs can be clanked with a variety of things (e.g. utilt, nair), but each one seems to leave us open to some kind of followup by him. I can't get dthrow to combo into anything regardless of percent, he just jumps away before I can fair/utilt. Is this just me being too slow? His recovery is pretty good so bair gimping doesn't seem to work as well. Are there any stages we should try to avoid and what do we do to build percent?

 

[Sar]

So I play a few characters that do not have much range, and therefore have trouble with matchups like marth and sword/good range characters. To try to pick up a character that I could use against these sword-weilding foes I thought to myself "who else has range? Mewtwo has good range!"

Am I wrong in thinking that mewtwo has decent matchups against these guys? Or at least better then my next-best option, pit?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So I play a few characters that do not have much range, and therefore have trouble with matchups like marth and sword/good range characters. To try to pick up a character that I could use against these sword-weilding foes I thought to myself "who else has range? Mewtwo has good range!"

Am I wrong in thinking that mewtwo has decent matchups against these guys? Or at least better then my next-best option, pit?

Swords > Mewtwo, you made a pretty poor decision

 

[Vale]

To be fair, swords > basically everything
i don't think marth is like a 70-30 matchup, but it could be disadvantageous
if mewtwo doesn't work than maybe ivysaur? the bair/fair look like they have decent disjoint and you still have a projectile.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Mewtwo does okay against Marth, but has a very hard time against him on small stages with triple platforms. Stay away from those.

 

[StriderAaron360]

What do you guys think about the Wario match up?

 

[AstraEDM]

Mewtwo does okay against Marth, but has a very hard time against him on small stages with triple platforms. Stay away from those.

Yeah, played against a decent Marth the other day and it didn't feel like too much of an uphill battle. On Smashville and ps2 Marth has a hard time killing us and is relatively edgeguardable. We still get outraged though so you can't just throw out moves as much.

 

[MetaKnight0]

speaking from a ****load of experience, the mewtwo vs marth matchup is nowhere near as bad as it was before

the main reasons why marth **** all over mewtwo in melee was such:

1. marth could just bully mewtwo all day with fair and mewtwo could not do a thing about it.
2. mewtwo could get combo'd for free against marth and they were usually 70-80% damage combos that could lead to fsmash or dair.
3. mewtwo got utterly annihilated by marth's grab range and subsequent followups because of his weight.
4. mewtwo's recovery options were good at making it back from a far range but horrible for actually mixing things up letting marth edgeguard with dtilts or utilts

PM mewtwo has none of these issues because:

mewtwo's crouch cancel is insanely good in P:M. 97 weight makes him not budge from stuff that would faceplant him in melee and force him into a techchase scenario. dtilt is longer ranged than marth's grab reliably as well and mewtwo can easily go into a long range tip utilt to break a fair from marth. marth's dtilt still forces mewtwo from crouch canceling but it also means marth can't get a great combo from a successful dtilt.

mewtwo's also got such a fast shadowball speed that he no longer has to deal with a campy marth who just wants you to come to him. on many stages mewtwo can force marth to come to him with annoying shadowballs. mewtwo can also position himself far better with a much less laggy teleport.

mewtwo's weight also makes marth's combos much less devastating since 70-80% is maybe half of the damage needed to reliably kill a good DIing mewtwo off the stage as opposed to putting him to easy kill percentage in melee. this heavier weight also means that marth gets pretty much nothing off of any grab against mewtwo, meaning mewtwo has no real reason to fear marth's grab since all it does for marth is a big 5% worth of damage and maybe a techchase opportunity. this messes up marth's game bad and means he has to play the matchup closer to how he would against puff, not using grabs and trying to play the matchup without being able to threaten big combos off of a grab like he can most other matchups.

mewtwo's recovery is also ****ing ridiculous in this game with teleport giving him great attack options, and teleporting to the ledge available from a ton of different angles. marth can't really edgeguard mewtwo at all, really none of the cast can easily edge guard mewtwo.

on the other side, mewtwo can punish marth extremely bad for any messed up attacks with huge combos stemming from dtilt, utilt, uair, uthrow, confusion, disable, or fair. reliable high damage combos and reliable ways to edgeguard marth means that marth has a pretty difficult matchup on his hands.

i'd say the matchup is 5.5:4.5 in mewtwo's favor for the time being.

 

[Toxicroaker]

Anyone else have problems with the Lucas match up? My worst four MUs are Lucas, Squirtle, Zelda, and Marth. But we have already covered the other three.

 

[Frost | Odds]

NeonBlack thinks M2's worst MUs are Lucas, Link, Snake, Mario, probably in that order- with Mario/M2 being fairly close to even. I'm curious what you guys (especially MK0) think.

 

[MetaKnight0]

prolly link puff snake luigi

 

[Vale]

What is the Jigglypuff matchup like? I personally don't like it and figured it would fall into the category of "floaty characters are harder for Mewtwo", but most people I've seen have said it was advantageous for us.

 

[Frost | Odds]

It's hilarious. You know how good Jiggs' bair supposedly is? Take a ruler, measure her bair hitbox, compare to m2's bair hitbox; then ponder who has a better every other move.

 

[Youngster Joey]

i think his worst mus are tink squirtle and pika. and basically anyone else with a sword but any advice on mario? cruzy cakes knocked me out of ktar and although it was close i still lacked mu knowledge and same dj nintendos ike. any advice on these mus?

 

[AstraEDM]

I don't really have a problem with the Ike MU. I'd just stay close and keep pressuring him, CC his jab, and don't let him get momentum (easier said than done, yeah).

 

[Vale]

How do I deal with crouch cancelling? Will a perfectly spaced d-tilt generally just be outside the range of their counterattack?

 

[MetaKnight0]

i take back jigglypuff being a bad matchup after actually playing it

mewtwo blows this matchup out of the ****ing water no wonder half of the ssbpm reddit thinks puff is low tier its because of characteres like mewtwo lol

 

[didds]

The mewtwo:jigs matchup finally looks like what that pokemon battle should look like.

If only the DK:fox matchup could look like a real fight between a gorilla and a fox. My life would be complete.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

i take back jigglypuff being a bad matchup after actually playing it

mewtwo blows this matchup out of the ****ing water no wonder half of the ssbpm reddit thinks puff is low tier its because of characteres like mewtwo lol

I thought that Puff bodied Mewtwo until I saw M2K eviscerate Hbox at Shuffle V

 

[MetaKnight0]

I thought that Puff bodied Mewtwo until I saw M2K eviscerate Hbox at Shuffle V

yeah puff wins in the neutral game (just barely) but just cannot make up for it when it comes to mewtwo's endurance, uair, and impossibly good recovery. puff just cannot kill mewtwo with anything but fsmashes and maybe a low percent rest (even that's kind of risky cuz mewtwo has full charged shadowball, fair, uthrow, or a decent hover dair into teleport fair for strong combos)

it's pretty horrendous for puff

 

[cannedbread]

lol @ anyone who thinks toon link is a bad matchup
it's seriously free for mewtwo. poor kid can't do anything.

 

[didds]

eh, I've seen some good toon links and I wouldn't want to face one. Tiny, quick, lots of projectiles, but I guess toon link isn't exactly the hardest to kill when ya finally catch him

 

[Youngster Joey]

any tips on the marth or link mus?

 

[MetaKnight0]

any tips on the marth or link mus?

speaking from a ****load of experience, the mewtwo vs marth matchup is nowhere near as bad as it was before

the main reasons why marth **** all over mewtwo in melee was such:

1. marth could just bully mewtwo all day with fair and mewtwo could not do a thing about it.
2. mewtwo could get combo'd for free against marth and they were usually 70-80% damage combos that could lead to fsmash or dair.
3. mewtwo got utterly annihilated by marth's grab range and subsequent followups because of his weight.
4. mewtwo's recovery options were good at making it back from a far range but horrible for actually mixing things up letting marth edgeguard with dtilts or utilts

PM mewtwo has none of these issues because:

mewtwo's crouch cancel is insanely good in P:M. 97 weight makes him not budge from stuff that would faceplant him in melee and force him into a techchase scenario. dtilt is longer ranged than marth's grab reliably as well and mewtwo can easily go into a long range tip utilt to break a fair from marth. marth's dtilt still forces mewtwo from crouch canceling but it also means marth can't get a great combo from a successful dtilt.

mewtwo's also got such a fast shadowball speed that he no longer has to deal with a campy marth who just wants you to come to him. on many stages mewtwo can force marth to come to him with annoying shadowballs. mewtwo can also position himself far better with a much less laggy teleport.

mewtwo's weight also makes marth's combos much less devastating since 70-80% is maybe half of the damage needed to reliably kill a good DIing mewtwo off the stage as opposed to putting him to easy kill percentage in melee. this heavier weight also means that marth gets pretty much nothing off of any grab against mewtwo, meaning mewtwo has no real reason to fear marth's grab since all it does for marth is a big 5% worth of damage and maybe a techchase opportunity. this messes up marth's game bad and means he has to play the matchup closer to how he would against puff, not using grabs and trying to play the matchup without being able to threaten big combos off of a grab like he can most other matchups.

mewtwo's recovery is also ****ing ridiculous in this game with teleport giving him great attack options, and teleporting to the ledge available from a ton of different angles. marth can't really edgeguard mewtwo at all, really none of the cast can easily edge guard mewtwo.

on the other side, mewtwo can punish marth extremely bad for any messed up attacks with huge combos stemming from dtilt, utilt, uair, uthrow, confusion, disable, or fair. reliable high damage combos and reliable ways to edgeguard marth means that marth has a pretty difficult matchup on his hands.

i'd say the matchup is 5.5:4.5 in mewtwo's favor for the time being.

 

[Master Raven]

Thoughts on Kirby? I play Seibrik's Kirby fairly often and while I seem to be getting better at the MU, at the very least Kirby looks like one of M2's more difficult ones.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Thoughts on Kirby? I play Seibrik's Kirby fairly often and while I seem to be getting better at the MU, at the very least Kirby looks like one of M2's more difficult ones.

Outrange him. Stay away and keep a Level 3 shadow ball charged (not exactly full power, but it strong to go through projectiles.) It helps when they like to use dash attack and horizontal cutter to get in on you.

Try to scope out his down-B with an appropriately spaced side-B (confusion). Kirby can be grabbed out of his down-b, and Confusion is a great ranged grab (you can go into usmash after side-b connects. Only on low percents, though.)

After you got some significant damage in on him (60 or 70 percent?), start pushing him away with floating back airs. Once he's off stage, keep hitting him if you can with bairs. Keep a fully charged shadow ball in case you mess up with your floating attacks (fully charged fires instantly). He dies from an up-throw around 90 percent and above, possibly 80 (Super light character).

Don't rush Kirby down. His moves have pretty good priority and they're pretty fast. Hope this helps!

 

[Master Raven]

Yeah the more I play this MU I begin to see it in M2's favor. I still find it annoying but M2 has the tools outclass Kirby. The only thing I hate is dash attack, but then again **** that move in general haha

 

[Frost | Odds]

Yeah the more I play this MU I begin to see it in M2's favor. I still find it annoying but M2 has the tools outclass Kirby. The only thing I hate is dash attack, but then again **** that move in general haha

Yeah. Mewtwo hoses Kirby for the same reason he beats Jigglypuff like a red headed stepchild. If you just camp, Kirby can't do anything.

 

[StriderAaron360]

What do you guys think about the Mario MU?

 

[Master Raven]

From my experience, Mewtwo wins. Mario's only saving grace in the MU are fireballs, but we can just Nair right through them, along with other moves. Without fireballs, Mewtwo outranges everything Mario has.

 

[StriderAaron360]

From my experience, Mewtwo wins. Mario's only saving grace in the MU are fireballs, but we can just Nair right through them, along with other moves. Without fireballs, Mewtwo outranges everything Mario has.

Yeah, that's a good point. I got second place at the tourney I went to yesterday and lost to a Mario. Looking back, I think I might have been much too aggressive against him. I should've focused more on out-ranging him.

Also, after going back to the lab to figure some things out, I found that Mewtwo's U-tilt, D-tilt, and F-tilt clangs with fireballs/pills. You can also shield immediately after the clang. This method, along with using Confusion to reflect the projectiles, powershielding, and floating approaching Nairs, adds to our arsenal to combat that pesky stage control Mario has.

 

[EndY]

Any tips on the Link matchup?

 

[Landry]

So should I just not play Mewtwo against Lucas? That's the only matchup consistently giving my trouble across the board.

edit: post 800 woot

 

[Master Raven]

So I'm pretty sure Mewtwo does really well against both Luigi and Mario.

Against Luigi you outrange virtually everything he has. You just have to not get in his face when attempting combos because he's floaty as **** so he'll nair you in the face pretty easily if you try to combo him like most other characters. Play safe and capitalize on your superior range. If he's attempting to camp with fireballs, dodge them or nair right through them. They're not that difficult to get around compared to Mario's.

Speaking of which, I think we beat Mario for similar reasons, although I do think it's a harder matchup because Mario's projectile game is a lot better and is his best feat against Mewtwo. Bouncing fireballs can make for odd random patterns to get around if the Mario is good at using them. As someone mentioned earlier, many of our attacks can clang against them, and once again Nair goes right through them. What I like to do is play safe with his fireball game and go in with Nair as soon as I find an opening, or teleport if there is enough space to safely go in and follow up. The good thing about this matchup is that Mario isn't so floaty like Luigi so we can combo him easier, so once I disposition him I just combo until it resets to neutral. Mario is also not very difficult to gimp. Bair offstage > everything, including fireballs. (I know Mario can cape our Bair, however IIRC he will still get hit, and if you get caped, you're facing the stage so just teleport and keep him off the ground for as long as you can).

The one matchup I'm really struggling with right now is Link. I play against Nick Riddle and obviously he is a really good player so I can't tell if the matchup is legitimately bad for Mewtwo or if it's just the fact that NR is much better than me at the moment.

 

[Ghee]

If we're working with a -3 to +3 scale, I would imagine that some of M2's hardest matchups are:

Link: -2
Projectile pressure and disjointed hitbox. The only character that combines these well is link, and it shuts down Mewtwo's usual method of approach. He also blocks Shadowball with his shield, making M2 a complete sucker, forcing him to approach. This is the only Mewtwo matchup where he HAS to approach; in all other matchups, he can force it against he opponent or at least drive it into a stalemate if he wants to. Obviously M2 has tools to counteract the projectiles with Nairs and the like, but Link still dictates the matchup, in my opinion.

Lucas/Squirtle: -1
They have a huge variety of options to assault you in neutral that mitigate your advantages. For Lucas, comboing is super easy but its incredibly difficult to actually accomplish. I would compare it to Fox-Mewtwo in melee, where Mewtwo was a sitting duck in neutral (to a far less extreme extent). Now that Fox is obliterated by Mewtwo once a combo gets started, the main neutral-game threats are Squirtle and Lucas.

Toon Link: -1
Same reasons as Link but trades off the large disjoint and pressure in return for other qualities that don't fare well against M2. Still a tough matchup I think.

Pikachu: -1
Floaty, combos mewtwo well, can pierce Mewtwo's defense pretty well with quick approaches.

Mario: -1 or 0
This one comes up to what kind of player you're up against. An offensive, rush Mario is an even matchup, but a Mario who is well versed in fireball usage and pressuring you with his other tools makes it a tough one. A Mario that does both of these things will probably beat you. On the other hand, I feel like I might very well be completely wrong about this matchup (the post above me is pretty reasonable).

Marth, by the way, isn't particularly tough. I would say its even. Mewtwo has a hard time if hes aggressive and unsafe, but if you force Marth to approach on your terms is completely fine. (Shadowball pressure, baiting, etc) Obviously don't abuse your large range tilts and aerials too much or you'll find yourself getting tippered.

I might be very off on all these assessments. Just my two cents, and I'm open to any counterarguments from better players. I also play a very campy Mewtwo, so this is all from that perspective.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Any tips on the Link matchup?

Yeah Mewtwo does not have the upper hand in the MU so you're going to have to work a little harder. I recently just started playing again but I play a pretty good Link main often.

From my experience against Link you have to maintain some form of pressure against him at all times. Even if that pressure comes from extreme mindgaming, TeleportSB and Nair's just maintain some pressure. If you're not pressuring Link he is dictating the match. Since Mewtwo is nowhere near close to Link's camping ability he has to approach of course and what Link mains want is that exact scenario. Which is why I'm saying apply pressure and once you get in try your hardest to stay in an continue to rack up damage. Mewtwo can combo the dog **** out of a good number of characters in this game and Link is one of them. Combo effective & efficiently Link is just a Dtilt, Jab, Utilt, confusion from eating 50+ percent. Don't overextend if you can't reach Link or you don't have the proper spacing to throw out another attack, then avoid attacking. Re-position yourself favorably and go from there. If you overextend and get whacked Link can easily go right back to dominating the match. The most opportune time to approach Link is when his rang is out and still on screen and he doesn't have a bomb in his hand. Be aware of the rang's return that split second of hitstun can knock you out of initiating your combo and instead start up a nice combo for link.

That's one side of the MU that you should make sure you have down capitalization. If you can't capitalize effectively against Link you're not going to win. The other side of the MU is basically Mewtwo dealing with Link's projectile game...

...Which honestly isn't THAT bad but it can get very problematic at times. You definitely cannot win a projectile war against Link but throwing SB's while teleporting around and behind him can put some nice pressure on Link. This can momentarily stop him from throwing his projectiles out but don't get predictable with it or you will be punished hard. Nair is amazing against projectiles of all sorts and clutch in this MU. Eat up the boomerangs and arrows with Nair, I think Nair can deflect bombs too but I'm not 100% on that. Powershielding is always great you can WD out of a PS and toward Link to close the distance between yourselves. And Teleport is good for avoiding projectiles in certain situations but don't get too comfortable because telport is never your safest option. Boomerang & Arrows get eaten by Nair but don't use it everytime he throws a projectile your way. Link's rang is much less of a commitment than your Nair. Even more than that if the Link starts to notice patterns on how you counter his projectiles he can start to bait moves out of you. Being predictable is never good in any MU, Sometimes powershield, sometimes confusion may work (I wouldn't rely on it too much because you're pretty punishable if you screw up).

I'm not going to go awfully deep into what to do against Link when he's offstage because you & us all should know that good edgeguarding with Mewtwo is a must. Just be aware that he does have a tether in Clawshot. If he's not in range to use the Clawshot edgeguarding him is alot simpler. If he's about to use it you can Teleport onto the ledge and force him up for a punish. Bairs eat Link up when he's offstage, use them.

So in summary I guess:

1) Apply pressure at all times
2) Capitalize in all situations.
3) Learning his projectile game, the best times to counter them and what to counter them with.
4) Dat lockdown EG'ing.

If you can manage to do all those you're in good shape in the Link MU.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Hi there. I could use some Wario, Falco, and IC tips, as I fear they will be my biggest obstacle in a local tourney...

I would say as a Mewtwo, I am decent.

 

[ShadowGanon]

Hey, say I'm playing Ganondorf and I'm fighting a Mewtwo... How do I murder the Mewtwo?