The Mario Rediscussion Thread. Currently Rediscussing: Diddy Kong

[A2ZOMG]

You all seem to think upB is Bowser's only OOS option, but he has more than that, including a very dangerous downB. His attacks aren't that slow, and he doesn't need much to get KOs. Fresh surprise attacks like downA can kill early. Mario's recovery is also terrible. Overall, it's Mario's favor, but you can't simply wreck a good Bowser player. You have to work for it.

Bowser's other out of shield options are too slow to be reliable against a competent Mario player. Mario is a character who is quite good at maintaining good frame advantages on block, so if you play carefully, there isn't much Bowser can do to punish you.

Bowser's Down-B is not a viable move by any means in competitive play. In high level play, this move should never hit you. You can airdodge after the first hit, and the actual part he wants to hit you with is too telegraphed to be viable.

And while Bowser can kill, he can't rack damage consistently. Mario does this MUCH better, and furthermore, you have absolutely no trouble landing all three smashes against him. Or gimping him for that matter. With good SDI, you can also invalidate Bowser's D-smash I should point out.

Mario's recovery is not terrible. It's leaps and bounds better than Bowser's by far, because Mario in fact has the tools to mix up his recovery and do things to make his recovery safe.

The thing is though that fireballs, while being a large factor in the matchup, are not the end of Bowser's approach. They can be powershielded and even if Bowser gets hit by every fireball it still won't do that much damage and Bowser is eventually going to get to Mario. You all seem to forget that Mario can be intercepted (mainly by ftilt and fair) before he can feck with Bowser's shield.

If you are good, you're not going to let Bowser be in the position to attack you. Mario has much lower lag and better speed and options in general. He really should not be landing many hits on you at all. Anything he does on your shield is massively punishable, and you should be Up-Bing him if you notice his Klaw approach. If he dares to do firebreath, SDI that and U-air him.

Bowzer has more reach than almost everyone in the game.

Mario's reverse F-smash outranges every attack Bowser has. Too bad for Bowser.

Mario doesn't exactly have the best recovery move in the game. As long as the Bowzer doesn't play predictably then Mario's cape shouldn't prove to be too much of a nuissance. A forward-tilt to edgehog and Mario shouldn't be coming back on stage, lol.

Bowser can only feasibly recover on Battlefield, since landing on stage is not a viable option for him. Furthermore, Mario's recovery isn't terrible. If he knows DI, Cape stalling, smart use of edgecamping and other tactics, edgeguarding Mario is very difficult.

I should remind people, I do in fact second Bowser.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

100% serious question here A2ZOMG: Why do you keep posting as if you know what you are talking about?

 

[A2ZOMG]

100% serious reply: It's because fools don't know what they're talking about.

 

[vato_break]

lol ftilt will gimp mario? LOL i hope you were kidding... bowser is alright though mario has more viable options in this matchup. Bowser's upB Oos is really good though but, it i beilive if you mess up it's a mistake you can regret makeing.i'm not going to add too much since i've only played scrubby bowsers in low tiers(and i usually win). i would have to say 60-40/55-45 mario's favor,stage dependant.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Frankly my best experience in this matchup was against InsomniaK, a power ranked player in SoCal, but that was a long time ago, and since then, I actually chose to pick up the character myself.

Bowser's Up-B is the least of your concerns imo. If you space well it will barely do any damage to you.

 

[Inferno3044]

I will admit some things are true. Bowser's attach speed isn't extremely slow (though significantly slower than Mario's). His aerial mobility is pretty good, but it's not dumb like Wario's. His ending lag on the other hand is just plain terrible. This makes all his moves unsafe and easily punishable. Every ground move he has can be punished by Dsmash at least. This can get Bowser off stage which is not a good place for him.

100% serious question here A2ZOMG: Why do you keep posting as if you know what you are talking about?

Mad trolling.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I will admit some things are true. Bowser's attach speed isn't extremely slow (though significantly slower than Mario's). His aerial mobility is pretty good, but it's not dumb like Wario's.

Bowser's aerial mobility is overrated. He has HUGE commitment on it, like everything else he does. He can't change directions for the life of him without Klaw hopping, which you KNOW he will do. And while his run speed is good, he doesn't have a very good reason for running besides desperate punishing with DA and the occasional pivot grab.

 

[Veggi]

Bowser's other out of shield options are too slow to be reliable against a competent Mario player. Mario is a character who is quite good at maintaining good frame advantages on block, so if you play carefully, there isn't much Bowser can do to punish you.

I know from playing you that Mario's bair is all that he needs to be safe on block, however that makes him more easily predicted and Bowser can knock Mario out of his jump just like Mario can do to him, but Bowser has less risk. Bowser's fair, firebreath, and ftilt can all beat out Mario if he decides to do a jumping approach. Jabbing just makes it a pain to get close to Bowser.

And while Bowser can kill, he can't rack damage consistently. Mario does this MUCH better, and furthermore, you have absolutely no trouble landing all three smashes against him. Or gimping him for that matter. With good SDI, you can also invalidate Bowser's D-smash I should point out.

Bowser's attacks actually do stupid amounts of damage, his damage output for attacks is probably better than his knockback. Bowser's down smash does a lot of damage even if it's DI'd out of. In other cases the opponent might land in down smash mid-move and not have enough time to SDI out.

Mario's recovery is not terrible. It's leaps and bounds better than Bowser's by far, because Mario in fact has the tools to mix up his recovery and do things to make his recovery safe.

While I agree that Mario's recovery is not terrible, Mario's recovery distance-wise is quite bad. The reason he can get back to the stage as long as his recovery distance allows it is because Mario as a character is chock-full of options. No matter what number of options he has though...his recovery just doesn't go that far. He obviously beats Bowser in recovery though.

If you are good, you're not going to let Bowser be in the position to attack you. Mario has much lower lag and better speed and options in general. He really should not be landing many hits on you at all. Anything he does on your shield is massively punishable, and you should be Up-Bing him if you notice his Klaw approach. If he dares to do firebreath, SDI that and U-air him.

Most things are not set in stone, Bowser can land hits through any kind of prediction or mindgame. You might think that Bowser is going to use his Klaw, but if he airdodges then it's going to suck for Mario. Due to Bowser being able to mix up his options Bowser does not get shut down. Bowser actually beats Mario in movement speed. Mario's moves are faster than almost every character in the game, it still doesn't keep him from having bad matchups with slower characters. Not that I believe Bowser has anything better than a 50:50.

Bowser's fair, jab, fsmash (only on block due to shield pushback, any charge is even better), firebreath, klaw, and dtilt are not massively punishable. Punishable yes, but not largely.

If Bowser stops firebreath before Mario gets to him, Mario can not uair.

Mario's reverse F-smash outranges every attack Bowser has. Too bad for Bowser.

Mario's fsmash barely limits Bowser's game at all. Captain Falcon's utilt outranges all of Mario's moves bar fsmash and that doesn't mean anything. Also remember that Mario's fsmash moves him along with the hitbox so it really only wins for purposes of punishing. I don't think it even gets past Pit's jab.

Bowser can only feasibly recover on Battlefield, since landing on stage is not a viable option for him. Furthermore, Mario's recovery isn't terrible. If he knows DI, Cape stalling, smart use of edgecamping and other tactics, edgeguarding Mario is very difficult.

Landing on stage does work, as I explained before. It doesn't mean Bowser can't be punished for it, but as long as it gets Bowser away from the cape and FLUDD it's worth doing. I agree about edgeguarding Mario.

100% serious question here A2ZOMG: Why do you keep posting as if you know what you are talking about?

Statements like these hold no water.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario's fsmash barely limits Bowser's game at all. Captain Falcon's utilt outranges all of Mario's moves bar fsmash and that doesn't mean anything. Also remember that Mario's fsmash moves him along with the hitbox so it really only wins for purposes of punishing. I don't think it even gets past Pit's jab.

Mario's F-smash spaced correctly does in fact beat Pit's Jab, although this is not practical since Pit players never do rapid Jabs unless they actually connect, and Pit's rapid Jabs are stupidly hard to SDI correctly.

Obviously I did a poor job of it on wifi where my spacing sucks, but I really need to emphasize that it is incredibly easy to land F-smash on Bowser in general. Especially since his F-tilt is unsafe on block for example.

Bowser's attacks actually do stupid amounts of damage, his damage output for attacks is probably better than his knockback. Bowser's down smash does a lot of damage even if it's DI'd out of. In other cases the opponent might land in down smash mid-move and not have enough time to SDI out.

That's only if he predicts stuff, while Mario can play a much more conservative game that will eventually poke past Bowser's shield, and Mario's combos are easier to set up and do more damage.

however that makes him more easily predicted and Bowser can knock Mario out of his jump just like Mario can do to him, but Bowser has less risk. Bowser's fair, firebreath, and ftilt can all beat out Mario if he decides to do a jumping approach. Jabbing just makes it a pain to get close to Bowser.

All these options lose to intelligent Fireball camping keep in mind, something I didn't do enough of. Firebreath in particular should be SDIed most of the time.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

I faced a really good Mario player. You are right about F-smash outranging most, if not all, of Bowzer's moves. You seem to forget that it is only one move. Half of Bowzer's moveset outranges the majority of the cast's movesets.
F-tilt to Firebreath gimp! Lol
Using Bowzer every once in a while does not automatically give you match-up experience in tha area. Obviously, most Mario players will get a little aggressive and try to combo Bowzer; which is a logical thing to do. Unless you're MetaBroken, then any abuse Bowzer's shield receives will be met with crazy out-of-shield shenanigans. Bowzer is a defensive-type of character; so many approaches will be made even more difficult by Bowzer's impressive reach and spacing abilities. All of this assumes that a knowledgeable person is using Bowzer, obviously.

 

[B!squick]

I don't think us Bowser players really need to add to the discussion. You guys are doing such a great job of it yourselves, lol. A2Z may be selling Bowser a little short, though. :/

If you are good, you're not going to let Bowser be in the position to attack you.

It sounds like he thinks Mario should never be touched if the person playing him doesn't suck.

Also, I can't believe no one's mentioned Klaw Dropping when platforms are around. They're a fantastic way to mix up Bowser's approaches.

 

[hippiedude92]

I faced a really good Mario player. You are right about F-smash outranging most, if not all, of Bowzer's moves. You seem to forget that it is only one move. Half of Bowzer's moveset outranges the majority of the cast's movesets.
F-tilt to Firebreath gimp! Lol
Using Bowzer every once in a while does not automatically give you match-up experience in tha area. Obviously, most Mario players will get a little aggressive and try to combo Bowzer; which is a logical thing to do. Unless you're MetaBroken, then any abuse Bowzer's shield receives will be met with crazy out-of-shield shenanigans. Bowzer is a defensive-type of character; so many approaches will be made even more difficult by Bowzer's impressive reach and spacing abilities. All of this assumes that a knowledgeable person is using Bowzer, obviously.

Right, and just about everyone in mid high top tier outranges Mario as well.

We have the cape, Fludd, fireballs and obvious baiting (failino) to get around your range.

Once Mario gets inside someone's range, Mario's staying inside for a REALLLY longgg time.

And Mario can be turned into a offensive and a defensive character type as well. He's really versatile. Lol.

 

[B!squick]

Once Mario gets inside someone's range, Mario's staying inside for a REALLLY longgg time.

Right, which means more Fortress for us, lol.

 

[hippiedude92]

lolsamethingforusw/ourUp-Bifyougetinsideus

Bowser's only options once Mario's inside his range, are spotdodge (frame 3) Jab (only frame 8) and obv Fortress frame 1-5 and other stuff which im lazy to name

besides fortress is maaaaaaaaaad predictable/easily baited with mario's options.

 

[Inferno3044]

Right, which means more Fortress for us, lol.

Juggling Bowser is so easy. I doubt that you will Fortress every approach. If you do, then it's camping time.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

It was a bit annoying how Mario could come in and out at will. A few fireballs and well-spaced back-airs were a pain to deal with. It was downhill for me the first two stocks. I started to watch his habits and I came up with a simple solution. F-tilt Mario to death was the solution. Now he had a hard time approaching me. He began to grow anxious. He couldn't really get close to me, and so he tried to roll behind me. Now, unless you're Lucario your roll sucks. That had him in a worse situation because he would roll and would end up right in front of me!
Fireballs are annoying but they're manageable.
Honestly, f-tilt made the entire match winnable for Bowzer.
A grab-release to d-tilt and Mario would be sent out at a 15-degree angle. Then all I had to do was intercept him with Firebreath and edgehog.
Solution to end every persons ignorance: Face More High-Level Bowzers!!!
I realize this a next to impossible quest, mainly because there are so few of us in existance, lol
One grab and Mario is in for some serious pain, possibly death.

 

[Hobobloke]

Jab hits frame 6.

Besides we're not going to just use fortress when your halfway across the stage, Jay mean when you're in our face trying to combo us we upb with the frame 1 invincibility and hit you away and retreat to a neutral position.

I'm going to guess none have you have probably ever faced a good Bowser, so can't really do anything more than theorycraft which is stupid in general. I've no valuable opinion considering I have no knowledge in the matchup

 

[The Brown Scourge]

If I had to say I would leave the match-up 55:45 Mario
60:40 or even higher if you're playing a scrubby Bowzer

 

[hippiedude92]

Solution to end every persons ignorance: Face More High-Level Bowzers!!!

go get more of them then lol just like us marios we need more high level mario players

5/5 for mu imo stage dependent imo

 

[A2ZOMG]

All Mario needs to do is consistently punish Bowser's ground game with F-smashes really. He has more range on it, and Bowser's F-tilt can in fact be F-smashed out of shield. Intelligent fireball camping also beats Bowser's "poke" game.

Mario doesn't lose on any stage, and he ***** Bowser on certain stages, so this matchup is easily at minimum 6/4, bordering on 65/35.

Bowser's only "real" advantage is being significantly less technically difficult to use, as his advantages are more obvious. Mario on a fundamental basis however simply is a much better character who has the tools to cover every of Bowser's approach options and counter everything safely, and he also is extremely good at reliably KOing or gimping Bowser. I really cannot see how this is a close matchup for Bowser in high level play. Bowser's entire gameplan against Mario is capitalizing on mistakes and outpredicting Mario. The safe stuff he does normally have on characters with more limited defensive options isn't very safe to use on Mario at all if Mario knows what he's doing. Mario can avoid sweetspot Up-B with good spacing, and eventually shield poke as a result of it. Bowser's Klaw approach is invalidated by Mario's Up-B. All of Bowser's ground game is punishable by F-smash (besides single Jabbing) and loses to intelligent fireball camping. This is on top of the general difficulty of staying safe on block with Bowser and recovering.

However, there are in fact only a few Marios who do well on a high level, so who knows.

 

[Big-Omar]

I have never really fought any "legit" bowsers, but I agree with A2Z on this one. 60:40

 

[HeroMystic]

It was a bit annoying how Mario could come in and out at will. A few fireballs and well-spaced back-airs were a pain to deal with. It was downhill for me the first two stocks. I started to watch his habits and I came up with a simple solution. F-tilt Mario to death was the solution.

Full-hopping Fireballs bypasses F-tilt.

Now he had a hard time approaching me. He began to grow anxious. He couldn't really get close to me, and so he tried to roll behind me.

And this Mario was pro?

 

[Veggi]

Mario's F-smash spaced correctly does in fact beat Pit's Jab, although this is not practical since Pit players never do rapid Jabs unless they actually connect, and Pit's rapid Jabs are stupidly hard to SDI correctly.

That's true then, but it still lacks the disjoint to be recognized for its good range. Mario's fsmash does not actually beat out Bowser's attacks like it is led to believe. It only attacks from a farther distance than they do. Pit's jab is really annoying to DI, I thought I was the only one who had that problem. Seriously, Pit is so annoying.

Obviously I did a poor job of it on wifi where my spacing sucks, but I really need to emphasize that it is incredibly easy to land F-smash on Bowser in general. Especially since his F-tilt is unsafe on block for example.

The other moves that Bowser does in close combat can not be punished with fsmash though, other than the occasional fsmash. If Mario jumps, he is not in the position to fsmash and ftilt/jab are what should be used to block aerial approaches.

That's only if he predicts stuff, while Mario can play a much more conservative game that will eventually poke past Bowser's shield, and Mario's combos are easier to set up and do more damage.

Bowser does a lot of damage without combos though, the conservative game that Mario plays is not complex and as long as Bowser has options that can beat Mario's conservative game (interception) then it does not shut down Bowser.

All these options lose to intelligent Fireball camping keep in mind, something I didn't do enough of. Firebreath in particular should be SDIed most of the time.

You did a lot of fireball camping and it didn't do much damage, even when I just walked through them all like a man. All the damage eventually evened out due to Bowser's extremely high damage output and the range Bowser holds over Mario. It can be SDI'd all the time, but it doesn't stop it from doing a hefty amount of damage and the Bowser being safe provided he knows what he's doing.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Full-hopping Fireballs bypasses F-tilt.

Full-hop and I do a running up-smash, lol
We can discuss scenarios all day long but it still wouldn't settle much.
Leave at 60:40 then
It won't affect how I play one bit.
By reading A2Z posts, one would get the impression that Mario is unapproachable, ungimpable, and just plain broken.
Learn to explain things better

 

[Big-Omar]

Theory-Craft FTL.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

By reading A2Z posts, one would get the impression that Mario is unapproachable, ungimpable, and just plain broken

That's Mario for ya'

 

[HeroMystic]

Full-hop and I do a running up-smash, lol

...

No, seriously. Was that really your counter?

I don't even wanna go into detail in how silly that is. Let's just say you made a joke post.

 

[hippiedude92]

Full-hop and I do a running up-smash, lol
We can discuss scenarios all day long but it still wouldn't settle much.
Leave at 60:40 then
It won't affect how I play one bit.
By reading A2Z posts, one would get the impression that Mario is unapproachable, ungimpable, and just plain broken.
Learn to explain things better

its not about how you play or how bad you play a bit or w/e

its about making a constructive matchup analysis for everyone >_>

 

[B!squick]

By reading A2Z posts, one would get the impression that Mario is unapproachable, ungimpable, and just plain broken.

True facts. That's he's in S tier, right?

Seriously though, fireballs as just projectiles like any other in the game and thus a non issue for a Bowser player.

As for gimping, I learned from playing Ganondorf that you do the only thing you can do and that's recover high, even if it means using UpB to do it. Sure, I'll eat a lot of damage for it, but it's better than using a stock. I've lived to some ******** percents with Bowser, so I'm totally okay with doing that.

Also,

Bowser's Klaw approach is invalidated by Mario's Up-B.

GRAB ARMOR! Again, it says hi. Where's that vid with the visual representations of all of Bowser's hitboxes...

 

[The Brown Scourge]

A joke in bad taste

@hippy guy
Exactly! The way the discussion was going made it seem like u all didn't even really need to listen to any non Mario mainer. All of the posts kept saying the same thing
Mario ***** Bowzer in every way and there is nothing that Bowzer can do about it. In fact, why even main Bowzer.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Don't recover high with Up-B against Mario unless he sucks with the cape. (Unless you're recovering REALLLLY high, where you MIGHT be okay.)

 

[B!squick]

Here it is. Bowser's entire move set range: a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkMlsPV_p-8

Don't recover high with Up-B against Mario unless he sucks with the cape. (Unless you're recovering REALLLLY high, where you MIGHT be okay.)

And yeah, that's what I meant. UpB has more height than people give it credit for.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I love those hitbox bubble things!!!

They're so hardcore.

 

[hippiedude92]

A joke in bad taste

@hippy guy
Exactly! The way the discussion was going made it seem like u all didn't even really need to listen to any non Mario mainer. All of the posts kept saying the same thing
Mario ***** Bowzer in every way and there is nothing that Bowzer can do about it. In fact, why even main Bowzer.

take the internet like a man then or just dont discuss at all lol thats why i left discussing matchups in the internet its made for theorycraft and it ruined ur growth into a better player (at least for me)

its just matter of one who inteprets the internet emotionally or not >_>

besides, it's also same thing with S tier and fgts that say "oh we outrange you so it's 7/3 in our favor and we really dont care about your chars options whatsoever so, w/e"

 

[Javon89]

I'd say this match-up 55:45, arguable for 60:40, at best for Bowser 50:50 again.

Camping Bowser seems to be the smartest way to fight him, also the damage done to Bowser while camping isn't limited to fireballs, it's also counts the damage Mario does to him if he gets to close. Plus you can't just PS all the time because of human error. Offstage Mario has the advantage, the best Bowser can do is recover as high as possible because Mario can just cape stall and Fortress's hitbox doesn't take long to disappear.

It isn't a **** advantage but it's difficult for Bowser to approach and get into Mario's face.

 

[Big-Omar]

Bowser deals too much damage when he can get inside. Ftilt has good range >.>
Fire breath can get annoying and deals damage while we try to SDI. His fair is surprisingly fast. Bowser also has that KO power. He can UpB OoS if he needs to. Also, if bowser feels desperate, he can Koopa Klaw us for a suicidal kill for the win on our last stock.

Mario can easily camp bowser if needed, he can combo very well, rack up damage fast, and can gimp. Cape and FLUDD makes fighting mario very hard. And compared to bowser, mario is much faster. We can space better and we can avoid being sheild grabbed by using a well spaced bair. And we can Up B OoS if bowser gets in our face.

Those are the advantages of each side of the match up. Now wut about the disadvantages.

Even tho Mario can get in bowsers face with out a problem, bowser's Up B OoS will prove to be a nuisance since it will send us back rather far for bowser to take a breather. Fire breath will stop mario's approach unless mario full hop fire balls, but even so bowser can take advantage of that and attack from below. And fair can prove to be a good edgegaurder if mario doesn't cape it. Mario is pretty light, so bowser will have no problem killing if he can get that needed kill move off of him. On the other side tho, bowser is heavy, so mario will have trouble killing him.

Now even tho Bowser's Up B OoS is so great, it can get predictable. Also, if you dont sweet spot it, mario wont go flying far and can easily punish it. Ftilt has good range, but well spaced moves such as bair will beat it. Fire breath can be SDI out of if your quick enough and can be punished. Mario can easily combo bowser cus hes so heavy, so racking up damage wont be a problem. And mario will be gimping alot cus of bowser's poor recovery.

I'll admit, bowser is not a bad character. He has his advantages. But compared to mario, he doesnt have enough options when it comes to OoS options, approach, etc etc. So I believe this match is between 60:40 and 55:45, mario's favor.

I havent had any good Bowser experience though, so sorry if i got anything wrong.

 

[Veggi]

Don't recover high with Up-B against Mario unless he sucks with the cape. (Unless you're recovering REALLLLY high, where you MIGHT be okay.)

There is no way Mario can catch Bowser if the Bowser player watches for Mario to come close to him and overshoots him with up b. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Bowser computer does this ALL the time. It works.

Mario can easily camp bowser if needed, he can combo very well, rack up damage fast, and can gimp.

Remember to start combos he has to attack Bowser's shield with something that isn't bair. If the Mario player goes in too close he gets up b'd easy.

Fire breath will stop mario's approach unless mario full hop fire balls, but even so bowser can take advantage of that and attack from below. Mario is pretty light, so bowser will have no problem killing if he can get that needed kill move off of him.

If Mario is full hopping fireballs from an appropriate distance Bowser can't punish him for it, admittedly it gives mah Bowser an easier time reacting to them because they take longer. I'm not sure how a Mario could approach using full hop fireballs either.

Mario is also mid weight, not light weight.

Now even tho Bowser's Up B OoS is so great, it can get predictable. Also, if you dont sweet spot it, mario wont go flying far and can easily punish it. Ftilt has good range, but well spaced moves such as bair will beat it. Fire breath can be SDI out of if your quick enough and can be punished. Mario can easily combo bowser cus hes so heavy, so racking up damage wont be a problem. And mario will be gimping alot cus of bowser's poor recovery.

In situations that a good Bowser uses up b, it's as a punisher and not in a spot where it can be predicted. Well...my stupid Bowser does that but it doesn't count. I'm pretty confident that ftilt beats bair or at least trades hits with it, although ftilt should be used when Mario jumps and not when Mario is about to bair Bowser's face. Firebreath can't be punished with SDI unless Bowser holds it too long. It's hard to get close to Bowser to combo him because the only stuff that's safe is a pile of bairs and fireballs.

I'll admit, bowser is not a bad character. He has his advantages. But compared to mario, he doesnt have enough options when it comes to OoS options, approach, etc etc. So I believe this match is between 60:40 and 55:45, mario's favor.

Bowser has a lot of OoS options, Mario's bair and fireballs are just gay to Bowser's options. : (

 

[B!squick]

but it's difficult for Bowser to approach and get into Mario's face.

It's like that for almost all of Bowser's match ups, but luckily Bowser soaks up damage like a sponge.

And Veggi, are you sure you're a Mario main? O.o

Also, here's evidence of how well all this dink damage works in your favor. Watch as Ixis get hit with just about every missile and ZAir Samus throws at him, but wins regardless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83mbWjro6qU&fmt=18

 

[HeroMystic]

There is no way Mario can catch Bowser if the Bowser player watches for Mario to come close to him and overshoots him with up b. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Bowser computer does this ALL the time. It works.

>.> Not sure I wanna kill this or not.

I'm not sure how a Mario could approach using full hop fireballs either.

You don't.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure where this is going. I'm pretty sure the majority agrees on 60:40 or 55:45 Mario.

 

[Big-Omar]

Should be 60:40 mario lol >_>

And Veggi, i did mention i have very little bowser experience.