The Mario Match-up Index (Updated as of 1/14/10)

[Judge Judy]

Now that I think about it..maybe we do have enough reason to boast a non-exsistant match up. Still, maybe we don't.

Ness is decent, just not very good against Mario. However, to avoid being hypocritical, we can try discussing the match-up again.

 

[PKNintendo]

No... Olimar first.

 

[BoTastic!]

what the hell. we discussed Ness already. Like 3 times.

 

[SkylerOcon]

WTF is it with Mario and Ness...

It's like we always argue about the match-up even though we already know it's 100-0 FLUDD.

 

[Matt07]

Hero I was lurking around the Ganon boards and they have us at 60:40 in Mario's favour.

 

[HeroMystic]

Sounds about right to me. Could be 65:35, but 60:40 is satisfactory.

 

[BoTastic!]

Ganon is harder than squirt squirt. lol.

 

[Takeshi245]

I was just looking at the index and I have one question: Why has Mario vs. become 45-55? I remember us saying that it was even.

 

[Judge Judy]

I was just looking at the index and I have one question: Why has Mario vs. become 45-55? I remember us saying that it was even.

Who? Wolf or Kirby?

 

[Steeler]

if you are around the middle of the tier list down to above the bottom 4 tier, you'll likely have a lot of evens and slight (dis)advantages, with a handful of great matchups (probably falcon/ganondorf/someone else maybe) and poo matchups (mk/dedede/marth/falco/snake being most common).

i've noticed this with mario, pt, and sonic now. basically, matchups rarely matter for you, it's mostly dependent on player skill. with the exceptions of your character's top 3 worst matchups in the top 10 of the cast. imo tier placement is then mainly just dependent on how you do against the best characters in the game.

 

[Judge Judy]

*Bump*

Way too important of a thread to just let die.

 

[Vorguen]

You guys should get all your characters finished. Mario does well against some of the better characters like ROB and Falco. You guys should keep this updated and going.

 

[KirinBlaze]

We need a discussion. :\ Has Boss decided on Olimar or Link yet?

 

[Vorguen]

You guys should do Olimar. I have yet to even see a Ness in a tourney anyway.

 

[Judge Judy]

I wonder where Hero is, he always talks highly of his match-up experience against Olimar.

 

[vato_break]

just camp and don't approach.

 

[pizzapie7]

I always thought we were at the worse even with Olimar. But that's just my opinion.

 

[KirinBlaze]

I always thought we were at the worse even with Olimar. But that's just my opinion.

It's just a super annoying match-up that you have to drag out. Camp for openings, FLUDD+Cape offstage. It's actually a lot harder then it sounds.

 

[hippiedude92]

i want olimar srsly now i thought we did him already. i've had to argue with many oli's that camping game bull****. and also the grabbing issue -.-

 

[BEAST_]

Ok sorry for being noob....but:

So versus DDD/MK/GW/Marth seeing as they are pretty bad matchups...is it worth playing as mario in these matches or should you switch characters?

 

[BoTastic!]

pffft. I always use Mario against Martha. The others, yea you should change.

 

[Judge Judy]

Ok sorry for being noob....but:

So versus DDD/MK/GW/Marth seeing as they are pretty bad matchups...is it worth playing as mario in these matches or should you switch characters?

I'd think about a secondary for MK and DDD, but you don't really need one for Marth and G&W.

 

[BEAST_]

OK thank you guys. I appreciate it.

 

[Vorguen]

I don't know, it might be my extensive practice against MK but for me my hardest matchup with Mario is Marth. Everyone and their mother knows the MK matchup back and forth, lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth isn't unwinnable bad. That's for sure.

Mario isn't as solid as Marth may be, but he does have an answer to everything Marth has. Many of Marth's attacks are situational in the sense that they all have a punishable opening to something. If you're close enough, you can B-air out of shield to punish tons of Marth's stuff. Up-B out of shield can break Dancing Blade IIRC. Fireball camping brings Marth closer to you. N-air, FLUDD, and Cape are all very useful in edgeguarding Marth. Juggling Marth is always a good idea too.

And best of all, stutter step F-smash > Marth's F-smash in range. If Marth ever smashes your shield, it's a free F-smash for you. Just turn around and F-smash and it will always hit him.

 

[Mario_ 101]

falcon and ganondorf should be in the gg section lol. too ez

 

[hippiedude92]

Marth isn't unwinnable bad. That's for sure.

Mario isn't as solid as Marth may be, but he does have an answer to everything Marth has. Many of Marth's attacks are situational in the sense that they all have a punishable opening to something. If you're close enough, you can B-air out of shield to punish tons of Marth's stuff. Up-B out of shield can break Dancing Blade IIRC. Fireball camping brings Marth closer to you. N-air, FLUDD, and Cape are all very useful in edgeguarding Marth. Juggling Marth is always a good idea too.

And best of all, stutter step F-smash > Marth's F-smash in range. If Marth ever smashes your shield, it's a free F-smash for you. Just turn around and F-smash and it will always hit him.

Highly agreed. You couldn't say any better then this A2 lol. Stutter step fsmash beats out Marth's? I don't remember that.. IIRC, they can stutter step fsmash as well. If they like to Dtilt the crap outta them, make them eat a OOS Upb.

Just looking at this explation, makes me really do agree that mario is a balanced character and has an answer to basically almost every situation out there. That's what make Mario is imo. haha good ****

 

[babybaby 12 (banned)]

Mario actually has an advantage against Marth. He can punish everything Marth does. He's a better edgeguarder. The one thing that makes Mario so unique is that he doesn't have a single bad matchup.

The Marth matchup is 90-10 in Mario's favor. Don't believe me? Well, my brother beat a guy who used Marth. Mario KILLED him.

Unfortunately, I don't have any vids

 

[Matador]

*Drops bags*

Wow...what happened in the G&W discussion guys? Nobody even mentioned G&W's light weight. He KOs us about the same time we KO him with Usmash.

 

[hippiedude92]

But he has more ko options :/

 

[Matador]

More =/= better. G&W also doesn't have any lead-ins for his primary killers; you practically have to run into them. I'm not saying Mario KOs better by any means, but it's not some huge marginal thing like they were making it out to be. Mario kills G&W with Dsmash for God's sake.

 

[hippiedude92]

Yeah true your right =/. Stutter fsmash > their dair = TOO GOOD. spacing spacing is ****.

 

[KirinBlaze]

All you have to do is bait the Bair, or any aerial, walk away then stutter step Fsmash and punish the landing lag and kill him. GG.

 

[hippiedude92]

*waits for olimar discussion* =(

 

[Judge Judy]

Highly agreed. You couldn't say any better then this A2 lol. Stutter step fsmash beats out Marth's? I don't remember that.. IIRC, they can stutter step fsmash as well. If they like to Dtilt the crap outta them, make them eat a OOS Upb.

The problem is that the definition of stutter stepping is skewed, but Mario's is longer since he gets the additional boost from the "C-stick trick"; some describe stutter stepping as canceling your inital dash into a Fsmash, some just say it's just the extra distance from using a Fsmash the opposite direction your character is facing, and some claim it's both. I think the SBR got in a dispute over the official definition, but I don't remember what the final agreement was.

 

[Matador]

MY definition is simply doing an Fsmash while your back is turned. Whether it's actually called pivot smash or whatever isn't really relevant; worse names have been made up for Brawl's techs. The point is that it has deceptive range because of that huge step he takes to turn around. If more of the attack were disjointed, it'd be one of the better smashes in the game.

Marth has one. Ness has one. A bunch of other characters have them. There are only about 4 characters that have "stutter steps" that actually make a difference. 2 of those characters are Sonic and Mario. Both of them take a huge step when they start their Fsmash with their back turned.

 

[Geou]

Ice Climbers

They grab and I die. I run (and fireball spam), but I can't hide.

Heeeeeelp

 

[KirinBlaze]

Ice Climbers

They grab and I die. I run (and fireball spam), but I can't hide.

Heeeeeelp

Dair. Desync them and kill the ****.

 

[hippiedude92]

*still waiting on olimar discussion*

a red plumber doesnt like sum carrot pluckin fool and grabbing you over 9000 times T.T!

 

[Matt07]

IMO, Olimar's grab range is the only thing that makes this match-up tough for Mario.