Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[M@1funk$hun]

I want to play your ICs more man, I got schooled the 2-3 times we played lol

 

[dablackpacman]

I want to play your ICs more man, I got schooled the 2-3 times we played lol

Fsmash and dair will do you right against ICs

-condemned

 

[A2ZOMG]

I want to play your ICs more man, I got schooled the 2-3 times we played lol

F-smash and grab more. The ICs can't really do anything against it if you do it right. Don't do aerials against them very often.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

F-smash and grab more. The ICs can't really do anything against it if you do it right. Don't do aerials against them very often.

I found SH aerials work alright, but FH get eaten by that uair

surprising range on that hammer

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ics' uair is pretty amazing.

Mario's fsmash is pretty spammable in that matchup. But if they bait it you will take a lot of damage. LOL.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i should usmash more, but it just doesnt set up as well as dthrow/uthrow/utilt

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I've started compiling information on all of the characters we discussed/ stuff I learned from Pound V into one big post that I'm gonna add onto the OP

time for a change of character in the meantime!

Young Link?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Young Link is so broken. Holy crap.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Young Link is so broken. Holy crap.

what gave you that idea ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8twwXHDIVBc

 

[condemned_soul]

dude i was shocked that young link is actually legit

 

[Blanky]

my best friend, and smash partner, is a Young Link main. he hasnt really entered tourneys, but he's a ****ing BEAST.
Young Link's nair can kill Mario instantly if you tend to double jump a lot. if he catches you in the air with a nair, and you double jump right after, it's an INCREDIBLY easy gimp for the Young Link.
Mario's d-throw ***** Y.link. you can chaingrab with it if you're into that, hit him with an f-smash if he DIs left or right, or u-smash if he doesnt DI left or right.
Mario's bair also ***** Y.Link, but doing it off-stage is a little risky because of Y.Link's up-b

FURTHERMORE, Y.Link's up-b (if not sweetspotted) can be crouch-cancelled easily, which leads to a good D-smash
i know A BUNCH more, but that's all i can think of for now

my opinion - 60/40 in Mario's favor

 

[M@1funk$hun]

my opinion - 60/40 in Mario's favor

I think it's more like 70/30

we can easily cape projectiles and YL is not that much faster than us. They tend to stay to the air, so we can gimp em out of that.

Not sure why but the few young links that I did play had trouble maneuvering around my fireballs. I'm gonna chalk that up to gimmicks, but take the information as you will.

Mario also has some nice combos on YL because of his weight

also remember YL can't do the bomb jump like link can

and if you think he's going to airdodge/ grapple, cape the airdodge so he grapples the other way and dies

once you get inside of him, stay inside because we match his range pretty well.

 

[j3ly]

i saw yl bomb jump once. true story

he recovered

 

[Blanky]

I think it's more like 70/30

we can easily cape projectiles and YL is not that much faster than us. They tend to stay to the air, so we can gimp em out of that.

Not sure why but the few young links that I did play had trouble maneuvering around my fireballs. I'm gonna chalk that up to gimmicks, but take the information as you will.

Mario also has some nice combos on YL because of his weight

also remember YL can't do the bomb jump like link can

and if you think he's going to airdodge/ grapple, cape the airdodge so he grapples the other way and dies

once you get inside of him, stay inside because we match his range pretty well.

could be 70/30, not sure, but i feel like 60/40 to me. YL can gimp Mario pretty easily, one nair off the stage usually does it. and caping the projectiles doesnt do much since YL's move around A LOT. also, bombs tend to blow up on you 80% of the time which lead to an EASY approach by YL.
60/40 sounds right to me, but 70/30 isnt too much of a stretch i guess.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

i saw yl bomb jump once. true story

he recovered

probably let it cook, in which case yes he can do it but you basically have to predict 3 seconds ahead of time when you are going to be sent offstage =/

@blanky (because I suck at multiquote)

YL isn't that much faster than we are so, he just has a better platform game which means take him to FD and don't let him run around too much

and yes the cape does make a difference. if he's good and actually is cooking his bombs so even if you cape they pop, just shield. his shield pressure is terrible (comes in with a boomerang/nair into jabs) so just roll behind him and ****

that and once you get a hit off, he's done

 

[StealthyGunnar]

he can camp epicly better tho, right?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

he can camp epicly better tho, right?

basically what blanky and I are arguing about

I think no, he says yes

we can counter it better than some people like oh say puff =3

 

[StealthyGunnar]

well we have cape, but we wont always be able to cape every projectile. i think he can camp better. but we can combo him.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

if he actually does start closing distance and decides to throw a straight boomerang (unlikely cuz they like to angle em) just bair waveland through it into a utilt or grab

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario can just Cape YL's projectiles, and YL's reward is just *** in general, while Mario has pretty amazing reward for getting in YL's face.

So yeah, at least 60/40 Mario at worst. Probably more, though I haven't seen this matchup recently enough, and if I recall Cambodia has Young Link as top tier for some silly reason (something like he's viable against Sheik or Marth...dunno, just what I heard. YL is still trash though).

Anyhow just make sure you respect his D-smash, and his inferior version of Link's D-air. Those are his main two kill moves, besides trying to gimp you. Killing him...D-throw to random stuff is really good as mentioned. F-smash outranges like everything he has. Edgeguarding him should mostly be a piece of cake. Somewhat not a piece of cake if he manages to tether, which really shouldn't happen TOO often.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

id say to watch out for nair too. especially late nair. he and link can do that double nair ****, plus it's 1 of their best aerials

 

[Blanky]

@ Malfunkshun
i agree with some of that, FD is something i like to CP against YLink, but rolling behind a YLink is silly. WD OOS is a lot more useful. then again, my YLink friend probably knows the Mario MU much better than any other YLink does so maybe idk what im talking about when it comes to random YLinks.
@A2ZOMG
i agree, except the gimping isnt that easy at first, but again my friend and i play the YLink vs Mario MU a LOT so he knows the MU. b-airs work great when gimping a YL, but the timing can be tricky when he uses his up-b, you gotta just edge hog and stall, and hope he isnt holding a bomb.
but, if he's close enough to the stage, he can just tether. if you're hangin on to the ledge already and he tethers below you, just drop and do a rising n-air. it isnt guaranteed but it's a great option. can lead to a good stage spike if he doesnt react fast enough.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

hey blanky has this YL guy you play ever gimp you with nair or a well timed dtilt?

just out of curiosity because anytime I was offstage I made it back pretty easily against the YL I played

 

[StealthyGunnar]

r u playing against a really good YL? he prob knows u can bair slap him to death if he ****s up.

 

[condemned_soul]

lol dont wory if people know what mario can do they will ban FD.....everyone in MI bans FD on me

 

[Blanky]

hey blanky has this YL guy you play ever gimp you with nair or a well timed dtilt?

just out of curiosity because anytime I was offstage I made it back pretty easily against the YL I played

it depends on the situation. he can gimp with a nair offstage pretty easily if it's after a combo (of bairs or nairs). kinda hard to explain that one, but if i record a video with him i'll show ya!

and the other thing he does, which works GREAT, is he'll do a well timed bomb drop on the edge of the stage, followed by a dair. he's learned not to do the d-tilts a lot because i'm very good at edgetechs, but he does use them on other people sometimes. once they figure it out he resorts to the bombdrop>dair trick. it's fancy and effective. and annoying.

he also sometimes does a d-smash instead of a d-tilt on the edge. it can be teched depending on how it hitcha though, but if you dont tech it, you're dead.

 

[n0ne]

Ah... YL. my very first true main since i started play competively this game. i think i stayed on him for a couple of years, then switching to mario/g&w/falcon/ganon altogether because of so much fox ****. Recently i switched to fox alsof ox also but ive got to say theres NO other character ive had as much playing as. Not even Mario takes that point. YL is just too good, and only NOW people see that because Armada used him. it makes me mad really.

The only way i see that Mario can win againt YL is applying correctly Shield pressure. YL really cant grab mario, and his only OOS option is nair, but it isnt too bad. he cant even afford to roll because its just horrible. Oh but his spotdodge is actually good just to point that out

Mario CANT cape his bombs. he is not LINK . his bombs are different. they have more knockback. even if u cape, they just explode on impact. idk its weird but it happens.

YL has nair, bair, DAIR (ouch, CANT be beaten, only with marios dair but from above)
uair combos (also cant be beaten) and dsmash as finisher. has GOOD gimps, and can defend ledge very well with edgehogging + bair combinations. he is NOT to be underestimated. remember to do cape stalling if u have to.

if u see YL dairing high in the air, just run. seriously. run and abuse land lag. its the only way. its just too good priority wise and it hurts. same for uair. and be REALY afraid of uair on platform combos.

Marios fair is nice against him, uair combos actually just work at low mid %s, dthrow *****, and Mario DOES NOT outrange YL with fsmash. YLs fair has good range, and beats fsmash. it even works as Marths fsmash. tipper=better.

I really miss YL. i used to **** everyone except in the fox matchup. Falco was easy but i just couldnt handle all the foxes. HE IS a good choice against all the various matchups. i think only foxes and sheiks ***** me with him.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, Sheik is probably silly once she grabs you.

I'd imagine Falcon is more annoying for YL though, seeing as he's, like, always in range to hit you. Lol.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Well, Sheik is probably silly once she grabs you.

I'd imagine Falcon is more annoying for YL though, seeing as he's, like, always in range to hit you. Lol.

YL is actually a Falcon counter, seeing as how falcon and ganon are similar

and n0ne you're right, we don't outrange most of his stuff. I apologize for saying that before

I was under that impression because I was hitting the startup lag of moves right before they came out on the YL i was playing, rather than the actual move itself. realized that today while zoning out in class

 

[condemned_soul]

I feel i good yuong link knows to run from you until you messed up somewhere down the road and take advantage of it

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario CANT cape his bombs. he is not LINK . his bombs are different. they have more knockback. even if u cape, they just explode on impact. idk its weird but it happens.

Try reverse Capes? Works like a charm if your goal is simply reflecting objects that have interactable hitboxes.

Also I don't see people catching items enough.

 

[n0ne]

hey ure right i forgot about that, it DOES work but sometimes it doesnt i dont know if its a timing thing or posicion related in respect of the bomb and marios actual position, but i think its safe to say its not 100% safe, and i REALLY think we cant take that risk know that after that bomb, YLinks dair is incoming at mid-high %s.

And yes, 2x nair is one of YLink/Link major air pressure games, especially if u used your jump trying to escape the comboing and are left with nothing. after that, just expect the ledgehog, or, an up - b facing your way to give even more knockback to your current aerial position.

RESPECT for Young Link.
53-47 his way.
Link is definately easier MU.

 

[Blanky]

Link is definitely an easier MU. again, im really not sure at all when it comes to who's superior in the match-up because the YL i play against has been playing smash with me forever. we literally learned the game together, so we know each other's play-styles and we know the Mario vs. YL MU all too well, so we win and lose 50/50.

"And yes, 2x nair is one of YLink/Link major air pressure games, especially if u used your jump trying to escape the comboing and are left with nothing. after that, just expect the ledgehog, or, an up - b facing your way to give even more knockback to your current aerial position."

EXACTLY what i was trying to explain before, i just SUCK at explaining things.

 

[ChivalRuse]

YL is actually a Falcon counter, seeing as how falcon and ganon are similar

They're not really similar. Falcon can hit you in less than a second. Ganon is slow.

Also, why are we talking about Falcon vs YL in a Mario thread? Lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Watched Armada vs Hungrybox...YL is annoying lol.

But Hungrybox fails at catching items. Seriously, if he played Brawl and learned how to catch items, he would be 1000x better at the matchup lol. Item catching is quite possibly the single most underused option in Melee atm in matchups where it's applicable.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

They're not really similar. Falcon can hit you in less than a second. Ganon is slow.

Also, why are we talking about Falcon vs YL in a Mario thread? Lol.

moveset wise they're almost exactly the same lol

and they even said in the CF thread YL ***** him

and because it's my thread and I do what I want

 

[ChivalRuse]

The Falcon board think everyone ***** Falcon.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

The Falcon board think everyone ***** Falcon.

Including YL

Let's get back on subject, 70/30 Mario Favor

we're just too good

play this aggressively. once your in, stay in. cape boomerangs, stray from bombs (reverse cape is iffy) and fireballs help for zoning. don't drop a combo and that should be it

 

[A2ZOMG]

Catching items *****.

Just sayin.

I dunno 70/30 is the ratio I'd suggest against Pikachu, and YL's D-smash and D-air are a tad more annoying than anything else Pikachu has. But yeah, I'd go with at least 60/40.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Mario definitely has an advantage against Pikachu, but it's not as crazy as 70-30. Lol.