Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[M@1funk$hun]

If the falcon is good, after every aerial you shield he will also do a gentleman

just hold your shield after an aerial because you're gonna have plenty of time to funk him up during the gentleman lag

 

[A2ZOMG]

My friend plays a very solid Falcon, and I can safely say that the above situation is only common if the Falcon is really predictable. GOOD Falcons do not rely simply on Jab for shield pressure. Falcon can also aerial -> N-air, aerial -> dashdance/Raptor Boost, and then there is the mixup he has from simply spacing outside of your grab range, which can be very dangerous.

You can shieldgrab him fairly easily in between hits of his Jabs usually. CCing his Jabs also is pretty good.

In general though, shieldgrabbing his pressure is not something you want to rely on. Grabbing him is also about putting the pressure on him instead.

 

[j3ly]

i play EU's best falcon alot, gentleman is his best 'gerroff me' option.

the purpose of the gentleman is that you cant CC it dude.....

you can NOT 'usually' grab him inbetween jab 1 & 2 of the gentleman :s perhaps if you CC'd it into a grab, but that would only be at really low %'s and would be really hard. what frame does falcons jab come out on? i know mario's is 3rd, and falcon's seems faster (peach & shiek have 2 frames).

 

[Bamesy]

gentleman is his best 'gerroff me' option.

Exactly. (the only part of anyone's posts so far that matter as far as I'm concerned)

That's his best gtfo option. Hence they use it to gtfo. Hence you STAY ON HIM and he can't do ANYTHING.

1. Speed (he uses it for spacing/poking/evading/approaching)
2. Punish (how he gets so much offense out of so little)
That's ALL he has on you.

He can't get you off him with ANYTHING except SPEED
He can't get you with ANYTHING if he can't use SPEED
Take away his SPEED by staying WITH him all the time.

Just follow that and make it up as you go.

 

[n0ne]

Exactly. (the only part of anyone's posts so far that matter as far as I'm concerned)

That's his best gtfo option. Hence they use it to gtfo. Hence you STAY ON HIM and he can't do ANYTHING.

1. Speed (he uses it for spacing/poking/evading/approaching)
2. Punish (how he gets so much offense out of so little)
That's ALL he has on you.

He can't get you off him with ANYTHING except SPEED
He can't get you with ANYTHING if he can't use SPEED
Take away his SPEED by staying WITH him all the time.

Just follow that and make it up as you go.

..... Range.
He has more range too.

- Utilt beats or exchanges with his nair.

Let me tell you guys something about Falcon since i main him too.
When i face a doc or mario, i know i have the advantage, but its just too uncomfortable to play againt mario, hes too slow, with good di combos dont work on him, grab to knee IS NOT a finisher with good DI, and its just very hard to kill him.

Also the fact that its hard to edgeguard him. Its just too scary because of being stage spiked at 1%! (fyi, its happens).

So, my mario fellas , this, we have to use tthis to the advantage.
They KNOW its not easy to kill mario. Mindgames son

IMO, when i use mario, im more scared of raptors or random smash attacks instead of the knee.

 

[A2ZOMG]

i play EU's best falcon alot, gentleman is his best 'gerroff me' option.

the purpose of the gentleman is that you cant CC it dude.....

you can NOT 'usually' grab him inbetween jab 1 & 2 of the gentleman :s perhaps if you CC'd it into a grab, but that would only be at really low %'s and would be really hard. what frame does falcons jab come out on? i know mario's is 3rd, and falcon's seems faster (peach & shiek have 2 frames).

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html

Mario's Jab (and Doc's as well) is frame 2 just like Sheik and Peach's. Falcon's is 3 frames. At point blank range (assuming you get into clash wars with Falcon), Mario has the advantage.

Generally if I think Falcon is Jabbing my shield, I wait for Jab 2 to shieldgrab him.

 

[Bamesy]

STOP TALKING ABOUT DATA AND USE BRAINS IT IS BETTER

I do not like it

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, knowing that Mario's Jab is faster than Falcon's does matter. If you're close to Falcon and nothing else is happening, you Jab, it's in your favor.

For fun, I want to learn if Mario has option select techchases on Falcon and other fastfallers. I mean although D-throw -> D-smash is pretty good against Falcon, techchasing into F-air successfully or resetting him into a free regrab can be REALLY profitable.

 

[n0ne]

I dunno, knowing that Mario's Jab is faster than Falcon's does matter. If you're close to Falcon and nothing else is happening, you Jab, it's in your favor.

For fun, I want to learn if Mario has option select techchases on Falcon and other fastfallers. I mean although D-throw -> D-smash is pretty good against Falcon, techchasing into F-air successfully or resetting him into a free regrab can be REALLY profitable.

yup. and this is done with f throw. its so fast and its throwing distance is small but not too small or too large and low mid percentages, then when done like at mid-stage, its easy to follow up.

Mix this up with downthrow, and u can screw up their teching. Even with u-throw, once in a while. Youll mess up their DI

 

[a rookie]

Yeah, sometimes you can mess up their DI. It doesn't usually work against really good people T___T

 

[condemned_soul]

Yeah, sometimes you can mess up their DI. It doesn't usually work against really good people T___T

yeah especially Up throw which means you need to juggle/mindgame falcon but that just my opinion. I stick to forward and Down throw (cape after the dthrow)for tech chasing...

its funny how if you shield near someone next to the ledge they will only have 3 options and 2 of them are pretty much the same thing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Shielding next to the edge isn't a particularly wise strategy in Melee. It's powerful in Brawl. In Melee, too easy to work around for most of the cast given how good ledgehop wavelanding is.

 

[condemned_soul]

I see what you're saying but i meant that you were on the side of him that wasnt on the ledge. he can get up attack, normal get up, or roll behind you (most likely if you stand next to him shielding).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Oh right, I didn't know you were talking about knockdowns. Knockdowns are MUCH stronger in Melee for sure.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

so falcon ***** us. luckily we can combo him plus cape offledge is ftw

 

[A2ZOMG]

Nah, Falcon doesn't really **** Mario.

Mario is kinda hard for Falcon to set up kills on and Mario's moves are pretty decent for pressuring Falcon in close range.

Falcon however is extremely difficult if you don't know how to DI, and you MUST have in-depth knowledge of how to combo him effectively.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i cant DI well, since i dont have much experience. therefore, falcon ***** me lol

 

[a rookie]

Falcon ***** everyone T_T
Not gonna lie, he is fun to mess around with.
DI any direction and pray xD

 

[StealthyGunnar]

falcon is fun to play, true dat. hes almost my main LOL

 

[condemned_soul]

Falcon ***** everyone in the ***
Not gonna lie, he is fun to mess around with.
DI any direction and pray that the residue from the knee doesnt leave a stain xD

fixed for the truth

 

[StealthyGunnar]

lol u guys. but he is easy to combo when u get the grab off.

hey bamesy, GARB MOAR.

 

[Bamesy]

How did you knooooow? :O

I haven't slept yet...it's almost 8am o.O

 

[condemned_soul]

Dont worry Bamesy....sometimes i cant sleep either and be bored as hell surfing smashboards

 

[n0ne]

Anyways, Dorfman is harder then Race car driver without the use of the cape like i do.

 

[condemned_soul]

Anyways, Dorfman is harder then Race car driver without the use of the cape like i do.

what does that mean?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I hate playing against Ganon as Mario. Ganon vs Mario is a really gay, difficult, and demoralizing matchup for the most part. I go Doc vs Ganon. It's still gay and difficult, but I can be even more gay back to Ganon when I'm Doc.

Ganon will make you work for basically every KO when you're Mario. Yeah comboing him is fun, but he usually doesn't die when you B-air him offstage. And all he has to do is kill you at like 110% is safely space THE PUNCH on your head all day. Not accounting for the fact his tipman U-air is **** too. Never play this dude on DL64.

I also hate Mario dittos so much that I will pick Ganon just to make them feel bad about going Mario against me. If there is anything more gay than fighting a Ganon as Mario, Mario dittos are even gayer, just given how much the matchup rewards camping.

 

[condemned_soul]

all im saying is ill MM your ganon if we ever meet A2Z

 

[StealthyGunnar]

thought it would be fitting to post her since we r discussing link. did some matches today, and recorded today with my iphone. sorry bout the terrible quality and some freezing. just try to get past it lol. give me any tips or suggestions, that would be helpful. DON'T TELL ME TO GRAB MORE. I KNOW. bamesy, that's to u lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ha3tllUGfY&feature=feedu match 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abHKXbbO4XI&feature=feedu match 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PiERvcyoc&feature=feedu match 3

 

[Bamesy]

For that, maybe I'll watch them. You'll be a first. lol

lol condemned
I wasn't bored and roaming but yes. I just stayed up all night playing dota with a meleebro. Had a 4 hour nap, now I'm off to smashy washy with a couple locals.
What a laziness weekend so far! XD


Cashypoo, so I watched parts of the first one.
Me liky. Nothing much to say since it was just a friendly and all that, and a really good Link/in a serious match wouldn't allow what I'd point out/suggest you to do to that Link (Dair above you to land beside you, roll behind you in the middle of the stage, miss grabs at high % near the ledge lol, stuff like that)
...but it's a common thing that ALL MAWIOS TEND TO DO (THAT MEANS YOU OTHER MAWIOS TOO)

Uair>Fsmash isn't the ONLY way to land Fsmash. (Dthrow>Knee isn't the ONLY way to land a Knee)
It's a good move, but if you don't use it for its purpose, then it might as well be a purposeless move. The time WILL come when this can be used, but you need to use it...to use it. It's good when you use it for what it's used for.
Editedit: Pivots...learn them...everyone!
Step 1 : DD
Step 2 : Control Stick Left/Right + Cstick Left/Right
Step 3 : Profit!

Fsmash either direction at any distance along your DD animation distance.
That covers at LEAST 1/3 of the average stages ground area. That's a lot of space. Spacing a move is one thing, spacing yourself is a big part of that. Pivots are great for ftilts, usmashes, aerials, dsmashes, grabs...and the Fsmash can be pointed in BOTH directions on ANY pivot...so it's even jucier.

You know the rest.

 

[condemned_soul]

- you could really grab more lol
- Nair is not your only approach because links nair beats yours
- make sure you mix your aerials up
- when edge guarding link....just Bair him when you grab the ledge (you dont have to jump from the ledge unless he is higher then you)

Monday ill have a link videos up.....you the man ca5h now put more up because i enjoyed them

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I recommend working on your reading comprehension

everytime you knocked him down he didn't tech it, so from there just space yourself accordingly and try not to go for a nair

if you can get a bthrow and edgeguard him, it would be much better because then you can bairslap him

 

[ChivalRuse]

I also hate Mario dittos so much that I will pick Ganon just to make them feel bad about going Mario against me. If there is anything more gay than fighting a Ganon as Mario, Mario dittos are even gayer, just given how much the matchup rewards camping.

I don't feel like Mario dittos are that gay. Just gotta be good at baiting.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

alright thanks guys.

for the most part, i used nair a lot basically because i dont know what other aerial to approach with, and since ive played this link a lot, i know he doesnt use nair much, even though i tell him he should. as for putting more vids up, might be awhile. I have no idea when ill see him or any other smashers next.

EDIT: sorry bout ****ty iphone digital quality. LOL. also i had to make a tripod out of kinects, which took like a half an hour.

EDIT2: everyone please call me cash, not ca5h. i tried used CA$H for my username but for some reason wouldnt let me...

EDIT3: wow edit much lol. i just watched my vids again. this is y i love playing mario = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PiERvcyoc&feature=related#t=1m14s those little epic combos i need to work on lol.

 

[condemned_soul]

alright thanks guys.

for the most part, i used nair a lot basically because i dont know what other aerial to approach with, and since ive played this link a lot, i know he doesnt use nair much, even though i tell him he should. as for putting more vids up, might be awhile. I have no idea when ill see him or any other smashers next.

EDIT: sorry bout ****ty iphone digital quality. LOL. also i had to make a tripod out of kinects, which took like a half an hour.

EDIT2: everyone please call me cash, not ca5h. i tried used CA$H for my username but for some reason wouldnt let me...

EDIT3: wow edit much lol. i just watched my vids again. this is y i love playing mario = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PiERvcyoc&feature=related#t=1m14s those little epic combos i need to work on lol.

Cash...... how many time do i have to tell you i dont care how you got it recorded bro. Idc if you had to take pic of each frame, put them together, and then send it to me. as long as people send vids i will help in anyway possible

approaches: you can dair him, spaced Fair or Bair (you can also jump behind them and bair while passing them), and Uairs are nice as well.

yeah I liked the combos that you pulled off. after that I would have needed a cigarette lol

Good job Cash

 

[StealthyGunnar]

thanks man.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

EDIT: sorry bout ****ty iphone digital quality. LOL. also i had to make a tripod out of kinects, which took like a half an hour.

that's mad funny lol. try explaining that to anyone that isn't a smasher and they woudn't understand

EDIT3: wow edit much lol. i just watched my vids again. this is y i love playing mario = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_PiERvcyoc&feature=related#t=1m14s those little epic combos i need to work on lol

that's just consistency. the more you play the better you'll get at it. that's actually one of my biggest problems right now

 

[StealthyGunnar]

im not very consistent cuz i dont play as much as i used to. good news though, tourney near me on friday. hopefully i can go! woohoo!

 

[Bamesy]

Cash again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ha3tllUGfY&feature=feedu#t=0m56s

The thing you posted that you like look familiar?

Uair>Fsmash isn't the ONLY way to land Fsmash.

When to use What > How to use What

Learning how to WD consistently is completely different than learning how to use it properly.

Try to understand that, it's a little weird, but it helps everyone.

Apply that to everything else and you're set for life. :D

 

[StealthyGunnar]

bamesy knows where it's at, guys. if only that uair had a little more hitstun that woulda been kool.

 

[Bamesy]

LOL
I'm changing my sig soon...