Q&A The Luigi Q&A Thread (CHECK HERE BEFORE MAKING A THREAD PLEASE)

[Wa_Black]

How to hand the Ganon V Luigi Match
In this match-up, I get knocked back, try to recover and get spiked, If edge guard, I just get a little bit more damage but am at high risk for gimping myself or getting reverse edge-guarded. When landing, I get forward smashed if I dodge (curtains), and I get hit with an aerial if I don't; this leads to me being easier to kill later on.

What I know I need to start doing
I would've won a lot more matches if I had know what I could punish with up b [76%] after shielding and going for the down throw up b combo to kill him earlier [~108%]

Is this match up bad or is it just me. If just me, what am I doing wrong? Because the Ganon's I fight never approach with something punishable which forces me to make reads and dying when I'm wrong. What can I/should I be punishing

 

[Yonder]

How to hand the Ganon V Luigi Match
In this match-up, I get knocked back, try to recover and get spiked, If edge guard, I just get a little bit more damage but am at high risk for gimping myself or getting reverse edge-guarded. When landing, I get forward smashed if I dodge (curtains), and I get hit with an aerial if I don't; this leads to me being easier to kill later on.

What I know I need to start doing
I would've won a lot more matches if I had know what I could punish with up b [76%] after shielding and going for the down throw up b combo to kill him earlier [~108%]

Is this match up bad or is it just me. If just me, what am I doing wrong? Because the Ganon's I fight never approach with something punishable which forces me to make reads and dying when I'm wrong. What can I/should I be punishing

Welcome to the Luigi boards and good first post!

Keep your distance with fireballs, Ganondorf has no answer to them and if he hops in the air, you can outspeed him there because Luigi's aerials are faster asides from maybe Uair. I'm pretty sure one of the few characters Luigi can outspeed dashing is Ganondorf, so you can use that to your advantage.

You can punish Ganondorf on the following moves with Up B: If he whiffs his wizard's kick, you can roll behind him when he does warlock punch [although he does have super armor on it], maybe his f smash if he whiffs, U tilt for sure. He's always prone to combos from D throw due to his large size and slow speed all around. He does kill early though, and off stage you are susceptible to being dair spike while doing a rising tornado. Honestly, I can't suggest much here if you're below the stage, you're pretty vulnerable, unless you somehow bait Ganondorf into being dair spiked by Luigi himself. You might not make it back, but he'll go down before you. He's not too threatening if you're above the stage though, spaced missiles and fireballs will keep him off. More likely fireballs, his fair can break through missile.

 

[Luigisama]

There are multiple ways, d-smash if they roll behind you. If they roll away and are at a reasonable distance you can dash grab. And of course, if they roll and land in your face you can always up-b .

What's up luigisama? Long time...

Yeah it has been awhile.

 

[Wa_Black]

Can we get a thread dedicated to kill set ups? Mainly when you can punish with a super jump punch, who the super jump punch combo works on, tech traps, and misfire set ups.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Stuff like that usually goes into the Gameplay discussion. But I've also seen threads dedicated to one move before so I'm not sure. Also, there really can't be any misfire setups since it's random with a 10% chance of misfiring.

 

[Wa_Black]

Can we get a thread dedicated to kill set ups? Mainly when you can punish with a super jump punch, who the super jump punch combo works on, tech traps, and misfire set ups.

Stuff like that usually goes into the Gameplay discussion. But I've also seen threads dedicated to one move before so I'm not sure. Also, there really can't be any misfire setups since it's random with a 10% chance of misfiring.

It would be a set ups where only a misfire would work (just in case you want to chance it) and set ups for regular missle that could convert into a kill if you get a misfire. Like a set up where regular green missle combos or is safe because of push back or something.

 

[AncientBaby]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the gameplay discussion thread, so sorry if this is the wrong place.

Does anyone else have trouble when you're over other people? It seems like I get juggled easily when I play Luigi because he's so floaty and I can't figure out how to get back to the ground or at least in the same level in the air as them. I've tried using the tornado and that sometimes works, but it gets pretty predictable. How do you avoid being above other characters or what do you do to take advantage of being on top of them? Thanks in advance.

 

[Wa_Black]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the gameplay discussion thread, so sorry if this is the wrong place.

Does anyone else have trouble when you're over other people? It seems like I get juggled easily when I play Luigi because he's so floaty and I can't figure out how to get back to the ground or at least in the same level in the air as them. I've tried using the tornado and that sometimes works, but it gets pretty predictable. How do you avoid being above other characters or what do you do to take advantage of being on top of them? Thanks in advance.

have you tried air dodging and or changing your trajectory in the air?

 

[AncientBaby]

have you tried air dodging and or changing your trajectory in the air?

Yeah, I think I may have just been having a bad day. I've started mixing in more air dodges and changing when I do/don't fastfall.

 

[Wa_Black]

How do you deal with shulk's hop aerials? He can lunge forward at you or run away from you safely. Chase him you get back aired, I've been experimenting with punishing it, but so far on block or even after a dodge I seem to get punished trying to punish him. I think his forward a isn't punish able because of how much range it covers, he'd probably have to do it real close, but they tend to do it from far away.

 

[GreenFlame]

How do you deal with shulk's hop aerials? He can lunge forward at you or run away from you safely. Chase him you get back aired, I've been experimenting with punishing it, but so far on block or even after a dodge I seem to get punished trying to punish him. I think his forward a isn't punish able because of how much range it covers, he'd probably have to do it real close, but they tend to do it from far away.

Luigi's biggest weakness is his short range, so it's not surprising that characters that outrange him have a bit of an advantage. I'm not sure about dealing with his aerials, but perhaps you could bait one and then punish? I might play the match-up more and see what I can say about it.

But yeah, perhaps baiting one and then hitting him could work.

 

[Swoops]

How do you deal with shulk's hop aerials? He can lunge forward at you or run away from you safely. Chase him you get back aired, I've been experimenting with punishing it, but so far on block or even after a dodge I seem to get punished trying to punish him. I think his forward a isn't punish able because of how much range it covers, he'd probably have to do it real close, but they tend to do it from far away.

I'll try to answer this question as I just had a long set of casuals VS a pretty competent Shulk player tonight. A lot of it seems to be managing your speed and aerial spacing vs his massive hitboxes.

I would occasionally have trouble punishing his further spaced aerials, but most of them don't have enough pushback on luigi's shield to avoid a dash grab, OoS fair, or OoS NAir. It's really the smashes and tilts that push luigi back too far. Nair and Fair go through fireballs, but if you pick your moments, fair will out speed all of his aerials if you're in his range. So basically keep your patience with the occasional fireball, and make him work until he whiffs something to let you in, it'll be hard for him to keep you out.

I believe his speed mode turns him into a fast faller, which means combo city for you. Weight mode is difficult for luigi to deal with kill wise, but fireball spacing to wait him out will work well. Mostly I try to avoid being off the ledge because fair chasing can murder you.


I'll try to think of more, but the match up is less difficult than I originally thought. I think the main thing is Shulk is slow to start any pressure.

 

[Wa_Black]

I'll try to answer this question as I just had a long set of casuals VS a pretty competent Shulk player tonight. A lot of it seems to be managing your speed and aerial spacing vs his massive hitboxes.

I would occasionally have trouble punishing his further spaced aerials, but most of them don't have enough pushback on luigi's shield to avoid a dash grab, OoS fair, or OoS NAir. It's really the smashes and tilts that push luigi back too far. Nair and Fair go through fireballs, but if you pick your moments, fair will out speed all of his aerials if you're in his range. So basically keep your patience with the occasional fireball, and make him work until he whiffs something to let you in, it'll be hard for him to keep you out.

I believe his speed mode turns him into a fast faller, which means combo city for you. Weight mode is difficult for luigi to deal with kill wise, but fireball spacing to wait him out will work well. Mostly I try to avoid being off the ledge because fair chasing can murder you.


I'll try to think of more, but the match up is less difficult than I originally thought. I think the main thing is Shulk is slow to start any pressure.

Thank you for your input. When throwing fireballs, what's the best way to counter shulk's options. Shulk's will trying and aerial me predicting a fireball, but I don't know If I should charge of a fsmash, roll, spot dodge, or block the incoming attack in order to get the punish off. I believe shulk's normally use fair in this scenario, but I wouldn't know because I've never played the character.
Can you punish his fsmash if you spot it? Can you even spot it, since it hits twice, or do you have enough time to dodge both hits?

 

[Swoops]

Thank you for your input. When throwing fireballs, what's the best way to counter shulk's options. Shulk's will trying and aerial me predicting a fireball, but I don't know If I should charge of a fsmash, roll, spot dodge, or block the incoming attack in order to get the punish off. I believe shulk's normally use fair in this scenario, but I wouldn't know because I've never played the character.
Can you punish his fsmash if you spot it? Can you even spot it, since it hits twice, or do you have enough time to dodge both hits?

The placement for fireball is just about short hop height, if not a bit below that. This is because ground level fireballs will be canceled out by NAir/FAir. If you have a short hop level fireball out, Shulk is going to get tagged out of his short hop approaches because they're too slow.

Once Shulk starts going in hard to keep you from fireballs all day, he'll use mostly NAir w/ some FAir and the occasional BAir. NAir doesn't have much shield push back, so wait and shield then punish with grab/dash grab based off what side he ended up on. You don't want to roll or spot dodge because nair will tag those with correct spacing.

FAir is a bit more difficult to punish on block, due to push back and the fact he can space it from further away. However it's also laggier in general, which means you can wait for him to whiff it or spot dodge to get inside.

Once you start playing more of the match up you'll be able tell what ranges are best for nair/fair and where he'll use them. Keep in mind Shulk can make it very hard to get punishes if his spacing game is on point. The match can turn ugly for him though if you look for opportunities to get inside his range and start FAiring/comboing.

To punish the FSmash with weegee, block the first hit, then spot dodge the second on reaction. It can hit you if you shield drop, or push you back too far if you shield both hits.

 

[AncientBaby]

How do you deal with shulk's hop aerials? He can lunge forward at you or run away from you safely. Chase him you get back aired, I've been experimenting with punishing it, but so far on block or even after a dodge I seem to get punished trying to punish him. I think his forward a isn't punish able because of how much range it covers, he'd probably have to do it real close, but they tend to do it from far away.

A lot of Shulk's aerials have decent landing lag, so if you can shield, then you may have an opening once he hits the ground. Luigi can cancel forced sliding (like when his shield gets hit) by spot-dodging, so if you can, try that, then punish with a grab. Luigi aerials come out faster than Shulk's from what I can tell, so once you get a grab in, you should have a few free hits. If you can't run in fast enough, shooting a fireball while you slide back works pretty well.
Swoops definitely had some good input, so listen to him. If you want to practice with a Shulk, I have a somewhat-decent-ish one and I also play Luigi some, so I have a general idea of what he can do. Good luck!

 

[isaac0390]

Hi There! Im Luigi user :D I have a question :3

How Luigi go up with Cyclone without jump? I saw that many times in this set.

The most impressive thing is in 8:40 Boss lose his jump while use cyclone, whoever use the cyclone again without jump an still GO UP! ._.

This techinque work only with a control maybe? I only have 3DS version of the game and doesnt work for me Help me pls :3

Here's the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLTmbeQaZYE

 

[Yonder]

Hi There! Im Luigi user :D I have a question :3

How Luigi go up with Cyclone without jump? I saw that many times in this set.

The most impressive thing is in 8:40 Boss lose his jump while use cyclone, whoever use the cyclone again without jump an still GO UP! ._.

This techinque work only with a control maybe? I only have 3DS version of the game and doesnt work for me Help me pls :3

Here's the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLTmbeQaZYE

Mash the B button 12 times a second. I don't even think that's possible on the 3ds version...we're both screwed there lol.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Does anyone have trouble with misfire? Often times when I use side B offstage and get a misfire, it leads to an easy punish because Luigi flies right into the opponent's Fsmash/whatever on a silver platter. I miss the old misfire that moves extremely fast and can rarely be punished on reaction

 

[ItzaMeLuigi]

I have a really hard time fighting heavy hitters like Bowser and Ike. What's the best way to approach them without getting a ton of damage on yourself?

 

[Yonder]

I have a really hard time fighting heavy hitters like Bowser and Ike. What's the best way to approach them without getting a ton of damage on yourself?

Welcome to the Luigi mains!

Fireballs are great, they have not much options to answer to them. Tornado moves in quick on them too. Of course, when you get a D throw on them, it's not that hard to rack up 40% or more off one throw. I quite enjoy fighting heavyweights with Luigi. They are just really easy to combo. Especially Bowser, since a lot of weak moves don't make him flinch, he essentially stays in place for combos.

 

[Wa_Black]

Is this tournament legal?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...Code=as2&tag=jkfty-20&linkId=5CXLDH5LURC752G4

If not, is there a non-turbo wii u gamecube controller like this?

 

[DD_]

Is this tournament legal?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...Code=as2&tag=jkfty-20&linkId=5CXLDH5LURC752G4

If not, is there a non-turbo wii u gamecube controller like this?

It's tournament legal as long as you don't use the turbo. However I believe those controllers are wireless as they only plug into wiimotes and that might be frowned upon.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I was watching Mr. CC's stream last week and he was talking about Luigi's Cyclone gimp. He kept talking about how having the mashing skills is the only way to unlock Luigi's full potential. What's the best way to perform the gimp without the mashing skills if possible?

 

[DD_]

I was watching Mr. CC's stream last week and he was talking about Luigi's Cyclone gimp. He kept talking about how having the mashing skills is the only way to unlock Luigi's full potential. What's the best way to perform the gimp without the mashing skills if possible?

Is there good footage of the gimp? i haven't seen a good example of it. you could already try gimp with dair if you arn't confident in your mash although this cyclone one sounds interesting.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/605201092

I just did a rough search for it and found this one. Watch at the 26:00 mark when he fights Ness. He does it a couple of times. He probably goes for it at least once every match. A lot of times he catches people's jump with the 3rd Fair then goes for the gimp.

 

[Wa_Black]

http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/605201092

I just did a rough search for it and found this one. Watch at the 26:00 mark when he fights Ness. He does it a couple of times. He probably goes for it at least once every match. A lot of times he catches people's jump with the 3rd Fair then goes for the gimp.

i don't think you have to mash for the gimp. I believe he said it kills at the top, combos in the middle, and gimps at the bottom, so you just have to hit the opponent with the bottom of your tornado, you could probably just use your jump with the tornado and gimp the opponent in the process of your recovery.

It works great versus characters like fox.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I guess the mashing all depends on how deep you go for the gimp. If you go far out then mashing will be necessary to help your recovery as you gimp. If you're fairly close to the stage you should be able to still double jump and Up B to the stage.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

I don't remember seeing this discussion anywhere but what are some good secondary choices for a Luigi main? I'm pretty much just playing with who I like at this point. If I do make it to the big leagues then I may possibly need a strong secondary to counter bad MUs.

 

[Yonder]

I don't remember seeing this discussion anywhere but what are some good secondary choices for a Luigi main? I'm pretty much just playing with who I like at this point. If I do make it to the big leagues then I may possibly need a strong secondary to counter bad MUs.

I like R.O.B in case someone is outranging you that doesn't have a reflector or isn't named villager [he'll pocket your gyro forever]. So maybe Ike, Robin, Pac Man, Shulk...I can't think of much, I don't use secondaries much sans Rob.

But I could recommend Mario. Should be nice for projectile heavy character [cape] and those with easily gimpable recoveries [DK, Bowser, any recovery putting someone into helpless.] Also for matchups you feel you need that extra mobility. I'd honestly only prefer Mario for Villager though, he makes gyro spam null.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah range is the biggest issue. I can work my way around projectiles but characters with more range and projectiles really give me trouble. I can see ROB being a good choice here. I'm also thinking Pit or Dark Pit because they have range plus a reflector. They're also pretty quick and have a great recovery.

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

i don't think you have to mash for the gimp. I believe he said it kills at the top, combos in the middle, and gimps at the bottom, so you just have to hit the opponent with the bottom of your tornado, you could probably just use your jump with the tornado and gimp the opponent in the process of your recovery.

It works great versus characters like fox.

You have to mash if you intend to rise enough so that they don't get hit by the last hit of cyclone. If you go for just the bottom hit and don't rise then it's likely they'll just get hit by the rest of cyclone.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Is down throw to cyclone a thing or can i airdodge it?

 

[TriTails]

You have to mash if you intend to rise enough so that they don't get hit by the last hit of cyclone. If you go for just the bottom hit and don't rise then it's likely they'll just get hit by the rest of cyclone.

I find that you have to actually rise during the whole thing so the enemy drops down to the bottom of the Cyclone then falls out themselves.

Is down throw to cyclone a thing or can i airdodge it?

If the Luigi player is fast enough, no, and it's not a hard thing to do at all. You don't even need to be very fast, just react in time after you completed the D-throw, jump and Cyclone just like you would when recovering, and tada!

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

I find that you have to actually rise during the whole thing so the enemy drops down to the bottom of the Cyclone then falls out themselves.


If the Luigi player is fast enough, no, and it's not a hard thing to do at all. You don't even need to be very fast, just react in time after you completed the D-throw, jump and Cyclone just like you would when recovering, and tada!

no i can't air dodge or no its not a combo? lol

 

[TriTails]

no i can't air dodge or no its not a combo? lol

No, you cannot airdodge it. It's a true combo.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Followup question. Does all of his aerials combo out of dthrow too, and am i wrong in feeling like most of his aerials combo into eachother?

 

[GreenFlame]

Followup question. Does all of his aerials combo out of dthrow too, and am i wrong in feeling like most of his aerials combo into eachother?

D-throw combos into all of them yeah, I think B-air might be the hardest to learn to combo into but it's still there. And U-airs and F-airs can go into each other pretty well.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Yep thats what I thought. Well good to know that it is literally not worth it to approach your character lol. Thanks guys.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Lately I've been having trouble getting grabs and had to resort to mainly Fireball, Cyclone, and jab combos to get damage. I try to attempt Fireball->dash grab but recently I been getting jabbed, Ftilt, or even Fsmashed out. I used to not have this problem. I'm not sure if ppl are catching on to Luigi's game or I'm not executing properly. Anything I can do to help this and get my grab game back?

I know I need to work on my jab->grab. I tend to mash A too much and do the whole combo. At low percent I need to work on more Nair->grab also

One other question...What's the best way to catch ppl with Cyclone? Often times they take maybe one hit and can recover and punish my lag. How can I make sure to keep them in the Cyclone more consistently?

 

[Dr.Faustus]

@ STiCKYBULL3TZ : If you find this happening often, your mixup (or one of them at least) can be to dash/foxtrot in with a running shield. They'll attack into the shield and you get a safe/easy shield grab. I find I get this more than trying to just run in raw-dog with the grab after a fireball.




Question for you fine folks:

I know that in sm4sh Luigi can use his fireball as a sufficiently "soft" attack to instigate a jab-lock/jab-reset. This can lead to easy forward smashes or Up-b's.

My question is how would you guys go about setting up the initial tech error situation to start the fireball lock? Does Luigi have any moves with sufficiently strong horizontal knockback to cause a tech-situation while still keeping them in range for the fireball?

Getting the reset feels like a big deal as could always results in a kill if ~60%: (fireball -> fireball ( -> fireball ) -> upb)