The Lucas Boards' MU Thread - Discussing: Sonic

[Hylian]

One instance of a match doesn't mean much. I doubt lain even knows or has ever practiced cging lucas lol. I've played against several very good lucas players and I know his moves quite well. Any character can do well with a novelty effect involved.

For example lain lost to YBM the other weekend. That doesn't mean kirby beats or goes even with IC's lol.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I don't see how any of you could possibly think that Lucas beats or goes even with IC's o.o. IC's entire moveset like..destroys lucas lol.

Care to elaborate?

 

[clowsui]

LOL i know, i'm just saying that it'll probably be a good example of how the matchup works, even if it is an example of how NOT to play it

 

[Hylian]

Care to elaborate?

Retreating nair > Lucas. IB's go through pk fire, pk fire doesn't really do much anyways, lucas has no gimmicks to kill nana, all of ic's moves are disjointed and for the most part have more range than lucas, uair goes through like..everything, lucass nair can be pivot grabbed, desynched ib lets ics approach easily, blizzard ***** up close.


Eh, lots of stuff.

 

[ZMan]

hylian- mm at whobo2?

 

[Hylian]

hylian- mm at whobo2?

Sure. $5-$20 is good.

 

[Chuee]

Ice Blocks go though PKF?
vids please.
IC entire moveset doesn't **** lucas that bad.
Uair only goes through Dair
We have no way to kill nana?
Are you talking about seperating them or killing them.
PKT is amazing against them offstage.
Nair getting pivot grabbed. Not sure about that.

There are things both characters can do to each other.

 

[Teh Future]

so if Lucas uses PSI magnet on blizzard does it hit ICs or do they grab him? I don't understand the hitbox on it but it seems like it hits faster if you are absorbing somehting.

 

[Chuee]

Blizzard has range so if we stay back when we absorb it we shouldn't get grabbed.

 

[Uffe]

Like Ness, Lucas can also Magnet Cancel when absorbable projectile is used against him, giving him the opportunity to not only get free health, but to be able to roll back, jump away, spot dodge and so on.

 

[Hylian]

IceIce Blocks go though PKF?
vids please.
IC entire moveset doesn't **** lucas that bad.
Uair only goes through Dair
We have no way to kill nana?
Are you talking about seperating them or killing them.
PKT is amazing against them offstage.
Nair getting pivot grabbed. Not sure about that.

There are things both characters can do to each other.

It sounds like you have never played an IC before lol. Uair goes through everything, not just dair, yes you have no simple way to kill nana, lucas doesn't have the tools to keep ics seperated easily, pkt is ok against them offstage it's really not that hard to get back, and you're not sure about nair being pivot grabbed because you've never played a good IC lol. Most of lucas's moves can be pivot grabbed by IC's. Full hopped dair is easily countered by just uairing, IC's uair does over 20% and combos into itself for over 40% of damage from 0, falling nair combos into grab, uair frametraps airdodges, interchanging full hopped blizzards with aireals doesn't let lucas absorb anything and sets up for grabs if lucas trys to...Ton of things.

so if Lucas uses PSI magnet on blizzard does it hit ICs or do they grab him? I don't understand the hitbox on it but it seems like it hits faster if you are absorbing somehting.

If you are desynching blizzards it's a free grab if they try to absorb. Assuming you are desynching correctly. If you just sit there and blizzard of course they will absorb lol.

Blizzard has range so if we stay back when we absorb it we shouldn't get grabbed.

There are two climbers.

Like Ness, Lucas can also Magnet Cancel when absorbable projectile is used against him, giving him the opportunity to not only get free health, but to be able to roll back, jump away, spot dodge and so on.

Again..two climbers..on is going to be close to you shielding if you try to absorb blizzard and that gives them free grabs.


I mean SINGLE climber can Chaingrab lucas till 76%. Single climber also has a walking cg on lucas with dthrow for a pretty long time, till past 50% before IC's have to start dashing IIRC.

 

[Chuee]

We can cancel magnet with a jump.
I've played Lain before so yeah..................

 

[Hylian]

We can cancel magnet with a jump.
I've played Lain before so yeah..................

I've played lain before too. I don't see your point.

I've also played lucas players from every region. Cali/Florida/EC/South etc.

 

[Chuee]

My point was that you said that I sounded like i'd never played an IC.
Name these players and how long ago you played them.

 

[Hylian]

Don't trust my credentials enough to back up my content?

Sorry if you want to be stuck being blind. I've already listed a bunch of stuff, I haven't seen any counterarguments.

Do you know what lucas's safest move is on IC's shield? Best way to stop full hopped blizzard walls? Best way to edgeguard? Most reliable way to kill IC's with lucas? How to seperate them?

Do you actually understand the match-up at all or just arguing for your character blindly?

 

[Chuee]

Do you know what lucas's safest move is on IC's shield? Spaced Fair, Dair, and Nair
Best way to stop full hopped blizzard walls? PKF
Best way to edgeguard? PKT if they use Rising side-B then Usmash
Most reliable way to kill IC's with lucas? Edgeguards or get nana to run into a Fsmash
How to seperate them? Nair

I understand the MU.
Nair isn't really an attack that we use blindly assuming that every time we use it, we're going to hit with it. It also is a really good shield poke, and can go behind your shield making it harder to punish.

 

[Uffe]

Again..two climbers..on is going to be close to you shielding if you try to absorb blizzard and that gives them free grabs.


I mean SINGLE climber can Chaingrab lucas till 76%. Single climber also has a walking cg on lucas with dthrow for a pretty long time, till past 50% before IC's have to start dashing IIRC.

That's fine. But their grab range isn't great. The best way to grab would probably be by pivot grabbing after an attack when your opponent least expects it. I'm not saying that it's not possible for them to grab without pivoting. But it is obvious.

 

[orange/xd]

lucas has no gimmicks to kill nana

True, but if you do it right, Lucas is amazing at edgeguarding ICs with PKT.

If you are lynching blizzards it's a free grab if they try to absorb. Assuming you are desynching correctly. If you just sit there and blizzard of course they will absorb lol.

Don't just assume they will absorb just because they can. If the Lucas is decent and knows the matchup, odds are that they will know if they try to magnet Blizzard, they get grabbed. In other words, they won't.

 

[Tyr_03]

Hylian pretty much just listed good things Ice Climbers have. They're all true. Follows what I said. You have to outspace Ice Climbers to beat them. Like duh Nair can be pivot grabbed lol. That's why I wouldn't just run up and SH Nair randomly like a ****** lol. You might as well just say "Ice Climbers have a good pivot grab."

But yeah, there's not much to argue with. I have no idea what the ratio of Ice Climbers vs. Lucas is. I'm not even sure what ratios mean to be honest. All I know is that I beat Ice Climbers.

And I told you guys before, you have to PK Fire desynched blizzards, not magnet them. PK Fire explodes and hits both of them.

Ice Climbers are the ****. They have the tools to outspace and 0-death anyone. But usually people space bad and chaingrab bad so my Lucas wins. Don't worry Hylian. We all know IC's are high tier lol.

 

[lil cj]

The statements Hylian said could be said for any character thats facing ICs
Uair going through dair, pivot grabbing, punishing bad spacing, etc.
But the reason we have a slight advantage is because we have nair and PKT.
Nair(properly spaced) to separate them
and PKT for keep the ICs off stage and separating them in the process
I wonder if out PKT or any of our psi moves can fuse the ICs?
They do have electrical properties....if thats the case ICs will have the advantage

 

[orange/xd]

IIRC, if you hit one climber with PKF, they separate a good amount (for us)

 

[Hylian]

Hylian pretty much just listed good things Ice Climbers have. They're all true. Follows what I said. You have to outspace Ice Climbers to beat them. Like duh Nair can be pivot grabbed lol. That's why I wouldn't just run up and SH Nair randomly like a ****** lol. You might as well just say "Ice Climbers have a good pivot grab."

That's my point though...Lucas doesn't have a safe way to approach IC's or the means to camp them either. I've just been listing good things because no ones really given me reason to do otherwise. Just comparing their movesets is an easy place to start and for the most part IC's have more range and do more damage than lucas. Well, equal range about but IC's don't have to worry about being grabbed by lucas.

But yeah, there's not much to argue with. I have no idea what the ratio of Ice Climbers vs. Lucas is. I'm not even sure what ratios mean to be honest. All I know is that I beat Ice Climbers.

I don't like using numbers either. I just think IC's win the match-up.

And I told you guys before, you have to PK Fire desynched blizzards, not magnet them. PK Fire explodes and hits both of them.

Yes, pk fire is good against blizzard, you just have to watch out for them doing an IB instead or just having one of the climbers shield. IC's use blizzard walls against lucas mainly when he is close to the edge to gain a really good positional advantage. If lucas trys to go over it's easy uair damage for the most part and if he goes through he risks getting grabbed. At mid range blizzard is kind of useless because lucas has projectiles.

Ice Climbers are the ****. They have the tools to outspace and 0-death anyone. But usually people space bad and chaingrab bad so my Lucas wins. Don't worry Hylian. We all know IC's are high tier lol.

I don't really care about their tier placement lol. I think they lose to several characters. Rob/Snake/Wario/Lucario/Diddy...and have hard times with some others. I just think they beat lucas from my experiences and knowledge of the game.

The statements Hylian said could be said for any character thats facing ICs
Uair going through dair, pivot grabbing, punishing bad spacing, etc.
But the reason we have a slight advantage is because we have nair and PKT.
Nair(properly spaced) to separate them
and PKT for keep the ICs off stage and separating them in the process
I wonder if out PKT or any of our psi moves can fuse the ICs?
They do have electrical properties....if thats the case ICs will have the advantage

I..are you joking?

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Errr. you guys are getting ***** by hylian's arguments lol.

Hylian, give a summary post so I can refute it. The counterarguments here are crud =/

 

[Chuee]

Ice Blocks.
I'm really having a hard time seeing how they go through PKF since PKF explodes when it hits like every other projectile.
Uair going through Dair. Thats fine we can just avoid using Dair in this MU except for punishment. Wait, IC don't use hardly anything besides ib, blizzard, Uair, and grabs T_T.

The best part about this MU is that ICs worst stages are our best stages :D

 

[Tyr_03]

Lucas doesn't have a safe approach on any character. There's an answer to every one of his approaches with pretty much everyone. Ice Climbers can't really outcamp Lucas in my opinion though. PK Fire can beat your projectiles if you time around the ice blocks and the blizzards.

idk maybe I'm just awesome at fighting ice climbers though =P

 

[Hylian]

Lucas doesn't have a safe approach on any character. There's an answer to every one of his approaches with pretty much everyone. Ice Climbers can't really outcamp Lucas in my opinion though. PK Fire can beat your projectiles if you time around the ice blocks and the blizzards.

idk maybe I'm just awesome at fighting ice climbers though =P

..Falcos lasers can't even beat IB's when they are desynched lol PK fire doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Chuee]

SH lasers wouldn't even touch an IB ._.
I'd say Fair would be a good approach here.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

If they're doing Desynch IB can't we F-smash to reflect them back (even though it wont do damage). I can see this as a "get the lead and camp" going on here...

 

[ZMan]

If they're doing Desynch IB can't we F-smash to reflect them back (even though it wont do damage). I can see this as a "get the lead and camp" going on here...

welcome to brawl lol

hylian- $10 sound good?

 

[Wild ARMs]

If they're doing Desynch IB can't we F-smash to reflect them back

I don't think that would be our best option. Why take away a fresh fsmash to deflect something that we can deflect by something else? No need to decay our smashes if we can just use PKF, right? Unless I'm missing something here.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yeah, PKF explodes on contact with Ice Blocks. If we're going to be camping we don't want our projectile to be too decayed. Also PKF is too slow to stop desynch IB all the time. Then again we could just PS' them. :/

I'm not quite sure that if we reflect stuff it decays our f-smash. I need to test it.

 

[Wild ARMs]

Well, I know we can't just PKF all of them. I never said it was our only option. Spot dodging... Is that a good option?

 

[ZMan]

using fsmash as a reflector doesn't decay fsmash.

 

[Wild ARMs]

using fsmash as a reflector doesn't decay fsmash.

Peekay Awesome.
Thanks. Now Rocket won't have to waste time testing.

 

[Chuee]

Yeah, PKF explodes on contact with Ice Blocks. If we're going to be camping we don't want our projectile to be too decayed. Also PKF is too slow to stop desynch IB all the time. Then again we could just PS' them. :/

Decaying PKF isn't bad.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It isn't bad, but it's not good...

Anyway, it would be my preference to use F-smash... it's all up to the player

 

[Chuee]

I would pick BF and camp on the Platform.

 

[Yink]

If they're doing Desynch IB can't we F-smash to reflect them back (even though it wont do damage). I can see this as a "get the lead and camp" going on here...

Brawl pretty much is, "The more you camp, the more you win...so attack less to win more".

 

[~Nasty~]

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but instead of healing blizzard, it can be reflected back by fsmash. idk how useful that will be though, but if it connects, it freezes them and you're pretty safe.

 

[DMG]

That is pretty cool.

Also, Lucas with a stock lead on Battlefield is close to GOOD GAME. Actually overall killing Nana and not actively killing Popo works pretty well. I showed Phoenix Alpha some of that and he was impressed.