The Lucario Video and Critique Thread

[hichez50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=ULhjih6uRn-BQ&v=hjih6uRn-BQ#t=55s

Everyone needs to do that more and be better at it. Far too often I watch top lucario videos and they just let people recover onto that platform freely, or they aim too high. Gotta put it through the platform to shieldstab their feet.

Sure he missed, but its such a free shot with 0 risk, maximum reward and if its times perfectly theres nothing the enemy can do.

Good observation.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

"When in doubt aim for the head." Haven't I been saying this for like two years? Its harder to powershield, blah blah.

 

[hichez50]

"When in doubt aim for the head." Haven't I been saying this for like two years? Its harder to powershield, blah blah.

I thought we were aiming for the feat because cause it is harder to shield DI? Why would it be any harder to powershield a move going for the head.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I thought we were aiming for the feat because cause it is harder to shield DI? Why would it be any harder to powershield a move going for the head.

I was referring to something like aiming AS at the head as it may take a couple more frames to make it there rather than attacking the middle of the shield.

 

[Loota]

Yay, thanks for watching my matches! I only got two sets recorded that tournament and the other one was just uploaded, I'd appreciate if you guys said something about it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsd0vVx1eZU

 

[phi1ny3]

Yay, thanks for watching my matches! I only got two sets recorded that tournament and the other one was just uploaded, I'd appreciate if you guys said something about it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsd0vVx1eZU

You seemed to do pretty well v. Marth, the only things I'd say is space a little more, don't go above marth too much, and watch out for nair (this marth didn't really use it)

Against snake, you did a pretty good job too, I notice with both of these matches you didn't use jab much at all. Personally, while jab isn't too useful against marth, I feel it's fairly good against snake if you get it in, but you need to remember that you just need a full jab combo to get him in the air, and it beats his spotdodge too if he has that habit. In addition, jab -> strutterstep fsmash is a really nice way to land a kill move. I feel jab can be pretty rewarding in the MU if you're smart with it, so I'd recommend you play with it a little more.

I liked when you started using ftilt against marth too, good use.

Oh yeah, and use luc's other throws at lower percents, fthrow doesn't get as much damage done as bthrow/dthrow at lower percents, and fthrow is really nice when at high percents and you have it fresh (does a lot of damage, and can occasionally kill)

I like how you use bair, really nice delays with it too.

 

[hichez50]

Yay, thanks for watching my matches! I only got two sets recorded that tournament and the other one was just uploaded, I'd appreciate if you guys said something about it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsd0vVx1eZU

Well sorry it took so long But I have some comments I would like to share.
You have a very solid foundation so I will just some small things I like and things that could use some work. You are pretty good though. Seriously.

Things I like:
+ rising dair- the times you used it were really smart
+Back part of fair> nair( I just like seeing this type of thing)
+Your zoning vs. Snake
+timing

Things I would like to see:
- when you are in the air close to your opponent near kill percents throw out a B reversed aura sphere if you are facing the right direction. I think you will see some good thing come out of it.

-Better zoning vs. Marth. You got killed because your zoning was off. You seemed to fix it while playing snake. imo

-Be more defensive on the fire transformation on PS1. You took unnecessary damage because you rushed in at snake

- Jump on the flip of frigate. Most of the time you just fsmashed. There is a chance that you can end up under the stage if you aren't in the air while the stage flips.


Also Im not sure if you just messed up or felt pressured but you can just grab snake out of his cyhper. There was one part where you could have got the kill but you decided to just fsmash.

 

[Ignatious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW4PEXT2EPg&feature=youtu.be Vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imxdtBdxrTg&feature=youtu.be Vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZjtcnwG90&feature=youtu.be vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8m6XClqhk&feature=youtu.be vs Olimar

I'm the guy playing against the Lucario, my friend can't upload the videos himself. I think he's pretty good, but he doesn't want to miss anything important for maining Lucario.

 

[D. Disciple]

Are you the same iggy from way back?

That attended FCD, knew the Kishes and the other midwest smashers from back in the day?

 

[Karnu]

Love them Lucarios.

Mines coming along well ^_^

 

[hichez50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW4PEXT2EPg&feature=youtu.be Vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imxdtBdxrTg&feature=youtu.be Vs Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmZjtcnwG90&feature=youtu.be vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul8m6XClqhk&feature=youtu.be vs Olimar

I'm the guy playing against the Lucario, my friend can't upload the videos himself. I think he's pretty good, but he doesn't want to miss anything important for maining Lucario.

Tell your friend to use nair when he has pikmin stuck on him to get them off faster.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nah, Nair has a lot of afterlag, Utilt or Uair are better for getting them all off.

 

[Dexident]

Hello good folks of the Lucario forum. Lucario is arguably my first main in Brawl but I switched to G & W a while ago. I still pull out the Lucario when I'm feeling it though.

Managed to record a video. Sorry for the bad quality, I would love some feedback or critique!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS8O...DvjVQa1PpcFMjAG8qK_2eMDcl5ykbLwgPhsC_L0EvTH0=

 

[D. Disciple]

Dexident - Stop spamming double team...That is all

 

[Dexident]

Dexident - Stop spamming double team...That is all

Thanks... yeah I was getting particularly bad there at the end. I just really wanted to land one!

What about my approaches? I've never really looked into Lucario's AT's, anything I was glaringly missing? I know my friend's PT is not that great...

 

[tekkie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIJMTFbS4VU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS0qw1fojPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-MkwqOkFmQ

critique please, if anyone has time :3

 

[Browny]

fair his TJ more

dont use fsmash/ftilt oos, youve got faster options

hold shield when he dairs, not sure if this will work though.

use a different tag. that is all

 

[R3dman]

I'll be posting some videos soon for critique of some friendly's with XeroXen. I'm in pretty desperate need of help as I got destroyed in the Bloomington tournament Saturday. It was my first true competitive tournament, but still...

 

[kolat]

http://www.justin.tv/jtdollarsign/b/314062082
http://www.justin.tv/jtdollarsign/b/314061737

Doing some friendlies earlier today. Let me know what you think.

Edit: here are some better quality videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i1S1rCaucQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvralMDm-lI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHx9DrkCLM&feature=channel

Advice is welcome.

 

[Blondie.]

Hey, I'm a bit of a new lucario player. Just had my first "real" match a little while ago. It would be awesome if any of you could critique it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym_a0HeSjSs

 

[kolat]

Blondie,
I watched the first match since I'm about to go to work, but I have a few comments for that.
I don't know much about the Sheik matchup, but you seemed really passive. Sheik had control pretty much the entire time. I've never met a Sheik that punishes Fsmash with DACUS, that must be a pain. Sheik's speed with your passivity combine to give you a hell of a time. For example, around 1:04 I would have been attacking with fair or have used ES for a stage landing, but you air dodged and it cost you.

Not much time for more analysis, so here are a few more quick thoughts.

Learn how to ledge hop -> anything. I usually use fair or air dodge, depending on how safe I fell. You can also ledge hop -> fair -> DI back to ledge if you don't feel safe.
Fsmash can be good as to use as a wall of hitbox, but this Sheik certainly punished you for it. Work on your air game and tilts to control the space around you. AS is also good for this, but needles are way faster so probably not as much vs Sheik.
All I have time for, will watch the rest after work.

From watching the rest I would say you have a pretty good grasp on the game, you gave a much better showing after the first match. Work on spacing, read up on burst range, try not to get hit by needles as much. Don't roll to approach, don't getup attack from the ledge. I feel like you know what you are doing, but we all have room to improve.

 

[Blondie.]

Thanks for the tips! Excited to hear more.

And ya, I was playing a bit passive, but I was kinda forced to due to tree being so aggressive. He controls the stage so well. Maybe I could just try fightig back more instead of trying to dodge hits and get back on my feet.

 

[hichez50]

I'm going to disagree with kolat a bit.

Your off stage game needs some work. It felt that when you wanted to get back on stage you always took the aggressive approach. When you want to wait to see what your opponent did you took the passive approach, and this is why you got gimp/ killed so many times. Mix your off stage game up a bit. You don't have to attack your opponent when you recover. I know you didn't to this every time but it is just a reminder.

Use b-reversing. I saw a couple of moments where a quick be reverse would have shaken things up. It would have at least added pressure to your opponent.

There were a few other small things such as rolling to approach. You have a firm grasp on the game. A bit more power shields will do wonders versus sheik. Lucario is already a slow character and vs. Sheik you need as little lag as you can get.

BTW I absolutely loved the smash DI punishes. More lucario's need to be doing this period.

 

[kolat]

You don't have to attack your opponent when you recover. I know you didn't to this every time but it is just a reminder.

When Sheik is following you off the ledge and can gimp you with whip and can kill you if she hits, you should do something other than air dodge. I'm not saying always attack, I'm saying always be prepared to attack.

Use b-reversing. I saw a couple of moments where a quick be reverse would have shaken things up. It would have at least added pressure to your opponent.

BTW I absolutely loved the smash DI punishes. More lucario's need to be doing this period.

I agree with this.


Here are some matches I played today. Any advice is appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-PcNfXHRm8&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jDjjVwOXPw&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRaJb1AV5Ck&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcON85Wia5s&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXBn_cBuA6Y&feature=youtu.be

 

[hichez50]

You seem to be going in the right direction in the Marth Match-up. The first point of concern I have is that you approach Marth too much while he is near or on the edge. Just let marth have the edge while you prepare for when he gets back on. Occasionally, I like to just sit back and shoot BAS and that way it pressures his landing a bit. Now that I think about it more more AS in general will help you. You seem to understand this, but just for clarity don't approach Marth with Aerials unless it is completely safe. Next. you need to find a way to make more of your grabs connect. I don't know exactly how you want to achieve this but it needs to be done. Finally, just use more ftilt in this match up. It works wonders since it makes marth players guess whether you will send out a ftilt or fsmash. Nice to see a lucario with good rolling habits.

 

[kolat]

Yeah, my friend and I like to talk about how I am hyper aggressive and get killed a lot in stupid ways because of it. It is something I will definitely work on. I'm surprised you said I had good rolling. I feel like I may spam it a little much. As for the grabs, I agree that I go for it a little too much for how inaccurate I am.
Thanks for the advice, I will definitely put it to use!

 

[DaBeast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWCNAYWLoCo&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmTk7zLjFhA&feature=channel&list=UL

I was wondering if you guys could give me feedback and what to do vs these MUs.
Thanks in advance.

 

[kolat]

I have a little experience with Ike. Here are some of my thoughts.

Never let him jab you. It is so fast and annoying, it is easily my least favorite thing about fighting Ike. I'm pretty sure he can jab if you try to jab cancel a grab or an over-b. It isn't really feasible to never get jabbed, but try to limit mistakes that take you there.

Don't uptilt him when he is behind you in his shield. Instead, turn around and grab him or escape. This goes for pretty much every matchup.

Ike should never be able to recover if you force him to use up-b. A fully charged AS (FCAS?) hits him out of aether, so does a Fsmash and probably dtilt and I would even risk bair and ftilt here. BUT you should not do that since Fsmash and FCAS are soooo good at murdering him. Ike has to be a little high in damage for this to work, otherwise the knockback just sets him up to over-b to the stage. If you do it properly at the right damage, you'll probably have to hit him two or three times as he continues to try aether, but he will eventually die.

My thoughts on DDD are somewhat limited, been a few years since I fought a good DDD. This is a game of cat and mouse, you happen to be the mouse most of the time. If you get caught in a chain grab always remember a throw can't kill you. So if he just keeps grabbing you, assuming this isn't a walkoff area, you're safe. A mistake I remember making a lot is trying to mess with his timing by spot dodging after the downthrow. He caught on pretty quickly and started throwing in random dash attacks. DDD's dash attack will kill you. Jab him out or shield if you think he is going to do this. Much better to get grabbed than killed.

Don't bother using FCAS or even baby AS's when DDD is throwing those guys at you unless you are sure you know how to hit him in that move. Save FCAS in your ledge guarding game or when he is approaching and you are in free fall, come out of free fall with FCAS right in his face. I like to do this a lot. People do catch on, but if they keep approaching it'll at least give you time to land as they shield.

Fsmash can keep DDD at bay, and I bet dtilt and ftilt would also be workable. However, because of the chain grab and throwing his little ***hole minions, DDD still dominates the ground most of the time and negates AS. Learn how to maneuver around waddlewhatevers. Learn where the holes are in his defense when he throws them. With proper spacing and timing, Lucario can hit him with an AS while he throws. There's just usually another one in the way. Practice short hopping and retreating with fair, bair, nair. practice short hopping into air dodge, landing behind him with a charging AS on his shield. Practice short hopping into air dodge while DI'ing back to where you were and then Fsmash. Practice all the things.

Learn how to wall cling on FD and all the stages, it will help your recovery game immensely.

Dair is your best friend. At 2:26 you missed a grand opening to stomp on his face. always always hit with your dair when you can. It comes out super fast. However, don't use it to stall too much while recovering vs DDD. it sets you up to get bair'd. Nair is also super fast and has very little landing lag, learn to shff nair. I like to do that into jab -> dtilt or jab -> forcepalm or jab -> ftilt, and if the positioning is right, you might even try a shff nair -> grab, as our grab is awesome when people are in the air, and Lucario can recover really fast from nair. Or, after doing it so many times, jab -> wait for them to do something dumb trying to get away and punish. Think about how Marths like to up b so we can't chain grab them. Imagine predicting that and having a FCAS ready. Bait everything you think you can.

Tell your DDD friend to use over b more. That's about all I can think of right now. Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling. I am.

 

[hichez50]

My thoughts on DDD are somewhat limited, been a few years since I fought a good DDD.
Don't bother using FCAS or even baby AS's when DDD is throwing those guys at you unless you are sure you know how to hit him in that move. Save FCAS in your ledge guarding game or when he is approaching and you are in free fall, come out of free fall with FCAS right in his face. I like to do this a lot. People do catch on, but if they keep approaching it'll at least give you time to land as they shield.

Fsmash can keep DDD at bay, and I bet dtilt and ftilt would also be workable. However, because of the chain grab and throwing his little ***hole minions, DDD still dominates the ground most of the time and negates AS. Learn how to maneuver around waddlewhatevers. Learn where the holes are in his defense when he throws them. With proper spacing and timing, Lucario can hit him with an AS while he throws. There's just usually another one in the way. Practice short hopping and retreating with fair, bair, nair. practice short hopping into air dodge, landing behind him with a charging AS on his shield. Practice short hopping into air dodge while DI'ing back to where you were and then Fsmash. Practice all the things.

Learn how to wall cling on FD and all the stages, it will help your recovery game immensely.

Good DDD players will perfect shield your fsmash and then grab you. On FD I thing the matchup is near the unwinnable levels. DDD can just force you to approach the second he has % advantage and just like that the game is over.

Really DDD is only weak to lucarios air game. So you need to be creative with your approaches and setups to keep and bait DDD into the air facing toward you. All the stuff Kolat said about ike is good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

FD isn't that bad actually.

If your not stupid with how you present your moveset it's fine. Delfino, Cruise...those stages are OMG bad.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I didn't watch the vids, but I know some stuff about those MUs I wanna bring to light.

vs Ike
It's true what they said about his jab, it's dangerous. What isn't true is the thing about his aether. Well, it's true, and it isn't. I'll clarify. Forcing Ike to the ledge could spell death for him if he's at death%, but there are specific things you need to do to make that happen. First, don't stand too close to the ledge. He can ledgedrop aether you, and even if you shield it, he can shieldpoke you with it, and recover safely onto the stage by popping you up with the landing hitbox. You wanna stand as far back as you can, while still being able to fsmash a roll/getup or hop up and FCAS a ledgejump. I think he can shark you with aether at fsmash range on some stages, but if he goes under far enough to do that, he won't be able to get on stage, just back on the ledge again. If he does that 5 times, he'll die, so it's a waiting game for you.

vs DDD
Trying to space him out with fsmash won't work, his ftilt will beat you every time. hichez mentioned perfect shield > dash grab, which is also true. Somebody also mentioned not trying to spam AS, also true. It's best to charge up AS and jab/tilt the waddles away to keep your moveset fresh, then try to get in close. Really well spaced fairs and dairs are safe on his shield, and throwing a FCAS in his face at close range works wonders. Getting kills will likely come down to edgeguarding, unless you hit him off really close to the edge. You can bair his recovery pretty easily if he recovers high, just be sure to space it well if he uses UpB, and do it as he's coming down. If he recovers low, try to dair him before he UpBs, or you could try timing a FCAS/fsmash just before he grabs the ledge, since he has to go a tiny bit above it before he can grab it out of his UpB. Your gimping vs him is stronger than his gimping vs you, but he doesn't really need to gimp you that badly.

 

[kolat]

A few more of me trying to perfect the Marth matchup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG2F3IWoKlk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYOBAVGVaAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4_miAqFjdM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet3dWGuNI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvWGb3uQAAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTb1a8rHjNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYPS6Ycj_ZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSMspRhRTB4

 

[phi1ny3]

I didn't watch the vids, but I know some stuff about those MUs I wanna bring to light.

vs Ike
It's true what they said about his jab, it's dangerous. What isn't true is the thing about his aether. Well, it's true, and it isn't. I'll clarify. Forcing Ike to the ledge could spell death for him if he's at death%, but there are specific things you need to do to make that happen. First, don't stand too close to the ledge. He can ledgedrop aether you, and even if you shield it, he can shieldpoke you with it, and recover safely onto the stage by popping you up with the landing hitbox. You wanna stand as far back as you can, while still being able to fsmash a roll/getup or hop up and FCAS a ledgejump. I think he can shark you with aether at fsmash range on some stages, but if he goes under far enough to do that, he won't be able to get on stage, just back on the ledge again. If he does that 5 times, he'll die, so it's a waiting game for you.

vs DDD
Trying to space him out with fsmash won't work, his ftilt will beat you every time. hichez mentioned perfect shield > dash grab, which is also true. Somebody also mentioned not trying to spam AS, also true. It's best to charge up AS and jab/tilt the waddles away to keep your moveset fresh, then try to get in close. Really well spaced fairs and dairs are safe on his shield, and throwing a FCAS in his face at close range works wonders. Getting kills will likely come down to edgeguarding, unless you hit him off really close to the edge. You can bair his recovery pretty easily if he recovers high, just be sure to space it well if he uses UpB, and do it as he's coming down. If he recovers low, try to dair him before he UpBs, or you could try timing a FCAS/fsmash just before he grabs the ledge, since he has to go a tiny bit above it before he can grab it out of his UpB. Your gimping vs him is stronger than his gimping vs you, but he doesn't really need to gimp you that badly.

Actually, funnily enough, if you're good w/ timing, fsmash can beat out ftilt if you strutterstep it (there's a video or two of it happening somewhere), but yes, it's not a very good move to use on the ground in the MU. fullhop fair is your best friend in the MU.

 

[Richi]

Hey lucario fellows, here i leave u 2 matches from last Tournament made in Toluca here in Mexico city. I will leave u more when they upload it, please comment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVVZOGueMEk
WF vs Toon Link Match 2&3

 

[DrSoussou]

Hey lucario fellows, here i leave u 2 matches from last Tournament made in Toluca here in Mexico city. I will leave u more when they upload it, please comment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVVZOGueMEk
WF vs Toon Link Match 2&3

VERY solid gameplay. I may be more impressed than most because I'm not very familiar with the Toon MU, but it seemed like you were. You played the bombs very well when you had to but never let them stop you from your combos in the air, and you also defended against his bair combos very well. You've got a great b-stick also, and you know how to use it (no homo). Its applications are immensely useful as a counter to such a projectile-spammy character.

The only comments I can make are that you should try to read the Zair better and try not to throw out the Dair in every situation (I know its tough when its such an awesome move). As a former Samus-lover, I can tell you that the most common prompt for a player to use Zair is obviously when their opponent is at the very max of its range and moving towards the same level in the air as you but from an opposite trajectory. For example, Link is falling and you are rising or vice versa. When you CAN predict this, you seem to handle it perfectly with a power shield or AD but then get hit by an immediate boomerang or Fair. Very little you can do about that, much of the reason why Toon's Zair is so useful. As far as the Dair, check out what happens during 3:00-3:03 and compare it to 9:00-9:07 where you mix it up more. Nuff said.

 

[hichez50]

FD isn't that bad actually.

If your not stupid with how you present your moveset it's fine. Delfino, Cruise...those stages are OMG bad.

I have had some success taking a top level DDD to cruise. Imo.

@Richi

Your grab game is non excistent. Use grabs more. http://youtu.be/aVVZOGueMEk?t=4m53s
At the part of the video I linked you to you have have done so much more if you grabbed. The platform was moving up and you probably could have read what he was going to do. That is defiantly the weakest part of your lucairo. The rest of it seems fine. You would have liked to see a bit more use of the tilts, but the way you used your moves in comparison to your opponent was fine.

Learn to powersheild projectiles. This will make lucario much faster in this match-up. The only thing that is a bit of a chore to PS are bombs. But with a little practice you will have the timing down. Your air game is strong you just need to remember to be wary of when you are above TL. I think that TL has many more options that lucario does in this position. We can't depend on DAIR when both Cario and TL are in the air.

At the 8:03 mark that actually would have been a appropriate time to use double team. There was no reason why he wouldn't have attacked you. And taking into consideration the rest of the match he doesn't really charge is smashes that much. I know that would have been the hard read.

Overall nice strong offensive air game. Pretty solid. Nothing to major though. Great job.

 

[Richi]

Thanks for your critiques and both are right, i have to stop using da all the time, maybe i could have a better game by mixing up more.
Its enought to say, but now i have the GF of that tournament. Take a look and if there´s anything u guys would like to add is welcome.

 

[DrSoussou]

here's a friendly between myself and a friend in my basement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5I8iJ3cBs8
lol jk, this is prbly one of my favorite videos just because of all the come-backs. i'm sure we've all seen it but if you haven't, check it out. I feel like i learn something every time i watch it, especially during the highly-defensive play that occurs in the last stocks of rounds 2 and 3.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Just some wifi friendlies with Dark.Pch's Samus and Marth

http://www.twitch.tv/darkpch/b/318992561

Starts around 1:33:30

 

[DrSoussou]

lol he's pretty funny. "dirty samus" XD