The Louisiana Thread: Flarefox Forever - We are alive.

[Pritch]

I'll probably drive over for the next gameware, with melee setup in tow. Taylor and etc, can I crash with you guys again?

 

[RickyB]

If i ever have a Houma tournament i am going to ban meta knight

Edit: also look at the new DS
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/02/nintendo-announces-the-dsi/
no GBA slot, don't want it.

 

[Redson]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197061

Discuss. [Lee this has nothing to do with the matches we did last night, it was sparked by the Tactical discussion thread started today by Panda.]

Wow, Sorry I didn't get there sooner, because I had a point to make. It's closed now. D:

I find it a shame that a character has to be so good in a game that he/she is banned completely. Is there seriously no glaring weakness in the character that forces it to be considered "Broken" and need to be banned? I'm sorry but, "I can't beat this character because he has too many advantages/is too cheap/other arguments" sounds like a basic old John to me. The thought of me wanting to ban a character because it's too good sickens me on so many levels, simply because it mocks my own skill.

And yet I find it hard NOT to agree with the argument. Metaknight is, indeed, simply too good. As you said in the thread, a skilled player with Metaknight could wipe the floor with anyone. He deserves his own **** tier, the "God tier". Lagless smashes, nigh infinite recovery, speed and a devastating wall of pain, and I haven't even gotten into the advanced stuff because I don't even know about it all yet. He's simply too good of a character, and he's one of the few reasons I /rage at Sakurai when I look at Brawl.

As a Shiek player, I'm faced with many tough matchups. I'm forced to compete with the higher tiers all the time, and often, as someone said in your thread, because I play as who I like instead of who is the best, I'm gonna get *****. The characters I have trouble with most are the top tier characters. They're all still beatable despite their glaring advantages over other characters, though. Metaknight takes it to the top, though. Looking at the character rankings for tournaments, you'll see the gap between Metaknight and other tournament winners. I'm serious, check Ankoku's thread here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

TL;DR
It's ridiculous how one character can be so overpowered that it has to come to this. And it pains me to say it, but I support the ban on Metaknight. You have my sword.

 

[-Ran]

What's funny is the blind eye everyone wants to turn to it. They say it's a mob mentality that wants Meta Knight banned; the converse is true, since the mob mentality wants him to stay usable. Meta Knight won't be a legal character for much longer. What he can do in a skilled player hands is uncanny, and unmatched by any other character.

 

[Sachi]

That thread makes me proud to be a Northerner.

Jesus christ, that was utter bull****. There was no actual discussion, it was nothing but a flamewar. On one hand I'm glad it was closed - on the other, I think it should have had some real responses. Is it that hard to use a bit of courtesy ( Southern gentlemen, where are you hiding? ) or even some small part of one's brain ( GOD FORBID! ) when people make arguments for something?


My hope that the South isn't just a bunch of *******s who are unbelievably lacking in intelligence... has been pretty much crushed. There are so few persons with higher IQs than their shoe size, it makes me cry. Ugh.



I think I'd rather bash my head into a wall than read this board, at least when it comes to anything resembling a logical discussion.

 

[-Ran]

Hi honey. Work is boring. Nothing to do, I've been posting on Smash boards all day. =(

 

[Mocha19]

Yeah, Pritch, it's cool. I'm sure Taylor and co. would be happy to have you over again as well. I won't have a class to have to go to in the morning again, so I can hang out much later this time before going to sleep.

Just make a tourney where everyone has to be Captain Falcon and it'll be more balanced. That may very well be the only way. =P

 

[Redson]

My hope that the South isn't just a bunch of *******s who are unbelievably lacking in intelligence... has been pretty much crushed. There are so few persons with higher IQs than their shoe size, it makes me cry. Ugh.

...Ouch. :\ And yet I'm forced to agree with the previous statement.
It was a flame war, and the flame was all the same. "Join Melee, Brawl sux lol". Last I checked, the thread wasn't about Melee propoganda and Brawl's flaws (Unless you count Metaknight a flaw, amirite?) And even in that, people started talking about Snake too. Last I checked, the thread was about Metaknight, not other broken top tier characters. No wonder it was closed down so quickly, what with the constant bawwwing and lack of true arguments. I'm sorry your genuinely points had to be tossed aside because of other people's general idiocy, Ran.

I'm feeling mildly talkative and intelligent today. ****, there goes my one day a year.

 

[KenAlleman]

I'd say ban every character BUT metaknight. That way no one can complain about losing to him. Rofl

 

[Pritch]

Though I made a joking post about letting brawl die and etc, I do seriously agree with a lot of what was said with regards to metaknight. Gingerr's post in particular. Unrealistic assumptions about ganondorf ever landing a hit on mk aside, the fact that seibrick, afrothunda/leh, reflex, and others all aquitted themselves fairly well vs him has to say that this texas tournament can't be taken as the end-all, be-all sign of absolute brokenness. True, they did still lose, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume a certain amount of player skill contributing to that as well. In fact, imo the fact that they were even able to hold their own vs arguably the best player playing the best character is a decent indicator that mk, while good, isn't actually ban-worthy.

I'm not trying to argue that mk isn't the best character - that seems pretty indisputable at this point. But ban-worthy? That's pretty extreme, and should probably be reserved for things on the scale of SFII akuma. I'm not at all convinced that mk is anywhere remotely near as bad as that.

EDIT: See sachi, men from the south can make intelligent arguements.

 

[Testament27]

my thing is, if you ban mk based on this logic, whos to say we should stop there?

the thing about sf2 was that akuma was classified as god tier because he had options that no other char had, and the system was not built to be balanced around him. his diagonal fireballs had no answer, and he was more powerful than all other chars, thus a ban was clearly appropriate.

mk however, is different because he is not clearly god tier, he does not have any qualities unique to himself that are by any means broken, he is just really fast and has really good priority. when you combine these aspects with advanced techs like autocancel and put him in the hands of the right player, the illusion of an unbeatable opponent is created. Am i saying dojo is a scrub or lee is a scrub and I can beat him? Of course not. However, before we make conclusions to ban mk in order to start a smash revolution, it needs to be recognized that mk is a top tier character who flirts with the god tier borderline, but does not directly defy it.

that said, i say we wait til march to further debate this. its only been 6 months.

for the record, arguments like these are the reasons why i have become a casual smasher

 

[Redson]

Testament, that's very true. There is a large number of people that want to ban Snake also, and if he gets the banhammer, whats stopping them from banning Dedede, Rob, Falco, and so on down the tier list until all that's left is Captain Falcon? The end result will either be A: People ban Metaknight and decide to main other characters. Brawl becomes a much more diverse game. Or B: Characters are struck out one by one until all we have is Crapton Falcon.

Logically, A is the most likely result. I don't think there's much to worry about.

 

[-Ran]

Slippery Slope logic should never be applied. Just because one ban would be done, doesn't mean a million would.

Meta Knight has no true Counter. Your best bet to fight Meta Knight, is another Meta Knight. His worst 'match up' I believe is a 45-50? Oh wow.

Snake has issues with Falco, Pikachu, Dedede, Game and Watch, and Rob. Also, he doesn't have any 'impossible' match ups. Against Snake it's about applying pressure and avoiding the F-Tilt space game. Most players now have the timing for it down when it comes to shielding/approaching. I dare say that Pikachu is a hard counter to Snake, with a chain grab that can take Snake to 80%, if I recall. Snake is far, far, far less 'broken' than people believe. There is about ten, if not more characters in the game, that I believe work very well against Snake when played properly.

Falco - Laser laser laser laser laser. And Chain grab to Spike. He racks of damage well, and kills Snake in the 140s.
Dedede - Chain Grab, and can almost out camp most Snakes.
Pikachu - Quick Attack, Thunder Jolt out camps Snake, Chain throw ****, Down Smash, and better aerials.
Game and Watch - Far better aerials, quick Smashes, and can juggle Snake. Down throw tech chase/down smash is too good.
Rob - Out camps Snake easily, and can juggle Snake out of an Up Throw early to get a percent lead. Lingering and disjointed hit boxes let him space Snake very well. Snake is forced to play chase, to where Rob can take care of him easily enough.

 

[Mocha19]

MK is a good character, but the player has to at least kinda know what they're doing with him in order to be effective. They also have to know what their opponents are doing as well, so they at least need to have some skill. MK does have an advantage over most characters and those who are considered "neutral" with him still have a really hard time fighting him.

So we ban MK.. What happens then? People will most likely just flock to the other top tiers.
And what do we have..? A Top 5... Same thing as Melee...

So pretty much no matter what happens, tier whoring will be encouraged. And it sucks. People can't play their favorite characters without having to try extremely to try to win (like me and Redson). I've always had my issues with top tiers and counter-picking to begin with, but it's gotten really terrible in both games now.

I say instead of having a Top 5.. AGAIN.. keep MK. Snake, D3, GW, Falco, and R.O.B. are silly enough as it is.. I don't think we need more. You can all use them to fight one super broken character along with the rest of the cast, or you can have another internal war with those 5 by banning MK...

*Sigh* Things like this are what make players quit..

 

[Redson]

Slippery Slope logic should never be applied. Just because one ban would be done, doesn't mean a million would.

Meta Knight has no true Counter. Your best bet to fight Meta Knight, is another Meta Knight. His worst 'match up' I believe is a 45-50? Oh wow.

Snake has issues with Falco, Pikachu, Dedede, Game and Watch, and Rob. Also, he doesn't have any 'impossible' match ups. Against Snake it's about applying pressure and avoiding the F-Tilt space game. Most players now have the timing for it down when it comes to shielding/approaching. I dare say that Pikachu is a hard counter to Snake, with a chain grab that can take Snake to 80%, if I recall. Snake is far, far, far less 'broken' than people believe. There is about ten, if not more characters in the game, that I believe work very well against Snake when played properly.

Falco - Laser laser laser laser laser. And Chain grab to Spike. He racks of damage well, and kills Snake in the 140s.
Dedede - Chain Grab, and can almost out camp most Snakes.
Pikachu - Quick Attack, Thunder Jolt out camps Snake, Chain throw ****, Down Smash, and better aerials.
Game and Watch - Far better aerials, quick Smashes, and can juggle Snake. Down throw tech chase/down smash is too good.
Rob - Out camps Snake easily, and can juggle Snake out of an Up Throw early to get a percent lead. Lingering and disjointed hit boxes let him space Snake very well. Snake is forced to play chase, to where Rob can take care of him easily enough.

This. This is why it wouldn't go any further than metaknight. Because everyone else has a weakness or a bad matchup. Metaknight has none. Metaknight too good. Metaknight need get banned. I'd rather not have to go metaknight to beat metaknight. That's stupid logic. No, that's not stupid logic, thats stupid game design. It's like Metaknight was INTENTIONALLY made to be god. D:

 

[Battousai780]

Alright, so Im going to try and bull**** my way out of what I have to do on the 26th so I can go to the tourney. Wish me luck?

PS: NO EXPLOSIVE DIARHEA, SUDAI

 

[-Ran]

Implosive Diarrhea then.

 

[Sachi]

I'm feeling mildly talkative and intelligent today. ****, there goes my one day a year.

ROFL. <3 That made me laugh so much xD

EDIT: See sachi, men from the south can make intelligent arguements.

Maybe even arguments? Jk <3 Pritch

 

[Deleted member]

MK too ghey...






but shouldnt be banned.

i guess my opinion doesnt rly count tho since i dont play this game.

idk maybe he should be banned. its like if falco, shiek, and marth werent in melee, would fox have been banned? a few chars could compete with him, (peach, pro cfalcs, some random low tiers ect), but no one would have had an advantage over him at all. maybe he would have been banned. maybe meta should be banned. idk. i dont really care because i dont play brawl anyway.

pritch, you're welcome to come.

freddy will only be riding to nola, he wont be staying at the apt.

blah

 

[Nikz0r]

Idk anymore. I could see things from Vaughn, Taylor, and Ran's perspectives... I mean yeah, fighting MK is pretty infuriating and at times I just think he should be banned cuz it's so difficult to deal with him. But other times I do realize it takes skill to use the char effectively, and part of the reason these top-level pro's are doing as well as they are is because they're taking the char with the most potential, and pushing him to his max... I just don't wanna see the game become the fight to see who has the best MK. So yeah, Idk. We'll just see what happens.

I don't think those 5 are the only amazing characters either though. Wario, Lucario, and Marth are pretty good with their strengths as well, and DK, Kirby, and Olimar are also pretty good. I think it'd be alright without MK but I could see MK staying too for reasons listed above.

Meh, I don't feel like debating it anymore than that either. I gotta talk about brakes and steering tomorrow anyway, so I guess I should get some rest. >.>

Btw, Vaughn, I'm not gonna be able to hang out tomorrow at Lunch, I gotta meet with my team to practice our group presentation... Gotta make our car sound purty. XD

 

[jiovanni007]

Alright, so Im going to try and bull**** my way out of what I have to do on the 26th so I can go to the tourney. Wish me luck?

PS: NO EXPLOSIVE DIARHEA, SUDAI

Did I miss the argument =[

MK too ghey...






but shouldnt be banned.

i guess my opinion doesnt rly count tho since i dont play this game.

idk maybe he should be banned. its like if falco, shiek, and marth werent in melee, would fox have been banned? a few chars could compete with him, (peach, pro cfalcs, some random low tiers ect), but no one would have had an advantage over him at all. maybe he would have been banned. maybe meta should be banned. idk. i dont really care because i dont play brawl anyway.

pritch, you're welcome to come.

freddy will only be riding to nola, he wont be staying at the apt.

blah

Guess not...

Anyway, the ban on MK may sound like a bunch of people johning at first, but when you look at it very closely you may see that it could be closer than you can imagine. We all know that MK is never at a disadvantage when he fights. We all know he has ridiculous tactics. We all know that he can die at 70~80%. We all know that he builds damage faster than [insert racially sensitive metaphor]. The fact of the matter is that Mk overcentralizes the metagame. MK may not be God tier material, but the fact is that he overcentralizes the metagame. I said the same thing twice in a row because Mike Jones does it and I for some reason remember a lot of his lines and I happen to hate his guts, hopefully everyone remembers that sentence if nothing else.

So here are the examples. At one time, people realized that Mk was frickin good. At one point in the metagame of Brawl, Snake could successfully counter MK to a great extent and actually led him in the tournament standings because of this. No other characters were able to beat MK, so Snake usage skyrocketed since he could beat MK. Thus MK single handedly forced the smash community to use Snake more. Eventually, MK players found a way to successfully counter Snake consistently to the point that MK is now a Snake counter. Without Snake to counter MK, he quickly shot up the tournament standings. Snake is beginning to normalize with the rest of the top and high tier characters (slowly, but surely) and MK is still rising with no sign of slowing.

The point here isn't that MK is just so overwhelmingly overpowered, considering he does lose to characters that aren't MK. His matches aren't 100:0, he does have mostly 70:30 and 60:40 matches. This means that he is beatable, but almost every character is at a distinct disadvantage. So again MK is going to overcentralize the metagame by forcing players to pick certain characters for fear that they will be forced to fight against a Meta Knight. A character doesn't have to be that powerful to merit a ban, but as long as it is powerful enough to consistently dismantle the rest of the competition, it is banworthy.

 

[Deleted member]

that was the most subtle argument in favor of banning MK that i've EVER seen.

lol pro.

 

[jiovanni007]

that was the most subtle argument in favor of banning MK that i've EVER seen.

lol pro.

true, I wasn't really trying is the real kicker. Really the only logical evidence against a hard ban against MK is the fact that Brawl is only 7 months old which is in fact very powerful however.

Yeah I'm gonna be on all night since I won't be sleeping since I have an A&P test in the morning...

 

[SetsumA]

Lol, taylor i wasnt going to stay at you and your room mates app. even though your reasons for not letting me hang out over there are completely ridiculous actually, im not really sure what your reason is . but then again, i dont rly care.


Anyway, who's down for some smash this weekedn? i got a friend i wanna teach how to play smash.

but yeah, hit me up i dont have work tom- sunday :D

 

[SetsumA]

additionally, 13 year olds don't even register on my hot-o-meter,

no matter any potential beauty they may seem to posses for the future.

lol at you coming on the boards to boast about girls you've slept with.

LOL.

Sry your gfs have all been ugly as hell, exept for grace and i have no idea how she finds you attractive LOL.


Taylor you dont want to get on that level.



I can bash you FAR worse than you can bash me dude.

And to be honest, you dont even f|_|cking know me so shut your mouth dude.




honestly i dont want to have anything to do with you,

So dont post any pu$$y a$$ comments about me anymore.


Kthx *****.

 

[Redson]

"Where theres smoke, there's fire."

If that's the case, I SMELL A FLAAAME WAAAR.

 

[Sudai]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=wWiQTh63_XU

Cyphus, learn it and beat Lee out of the tourney for me.

Also, Dallas is messing with banning MK at their weeklies. Hylian and Lee Harris are keeping their eyes on the tournies to provide support for the banning to the back room and apparently there's been a lot of discussion about banning him. (If you guys didn't know, someone psuedo leaked that there's about a 50-50 split back there and that's what triggered this new wave of people talking about it all over the boards.)

Cyphus, you still back there?

 

[Cyphus]

eh..i find that way too hard for practical use. its so rediculous not to mess up any part of it (footsool, DI 2nd jump back, headbutt soon as possible-but not too soon) i can't even get it 1/4th the time...plus the different timing for each character's height. ugh
its awesome though...but i cant see myself pulling it the heat of a serious match. :/
i'll mess around with it some more though.

 

[Sudai]

Just learn it vs MK. That's the only place anyone needs it. XD

 

[Nikz0r]

Just learn it vs MK. That's the only place anyone needs it. XD

QFT. XD That's why I'll be attempting it with D3... It looks a little easier for him, but that could just be me. Nice find tho Sudai. :D

 

[KenAlleman]

instead of learning new brawl tactics, we should all start picking up a new hobby... like competitive swimming!

 

[Cyphus]

its 1,000x easier for DDD's d.air...DI's footstool combo headbutt is REDICULOUSLY hard.

as far as nonsmash hobbies: i been jogging 2x a week at least for a couple months now. furthest i've ran is 5.2 miles, but thats under perfect conditions. i'm about to go for a fun in an hour i think, hopefully i can make 3.5

 

[Ever_Power]

I had sex with Ranji and jiovanni.

We need some NOLA SMASH T-Shirts with our Screen names on them and our main.

I have a new veichle again yay.

 

[Bomber7]

In my view, sure I see banning MK as a good idea to give more people to place better in tournies and stick to what ever character they chose and not snap and become *** holes and switch to MK just to win tournies. Though on the other hand if you have way too much pride like me in using a non MK or Snake character, then my view goes out to it being a hallow victory if MK was banned and I would question my skill level. What's the point of being on top if you haven'y beaten the best? No fun in it really. I will jump for joy the day I beat a good MK or snake player with my Pokemon Trainer game. Mark my words on that.

 

[Pritch]

ROFL. <3 That made me laugh so much xD




Maybe even arguments? Jk <3 Pritch

Finding intelligent post within massive thread of spam: check

Making intelligent argument myself supported by above thread: check

Pimping myself as being intelligent because of above reasons: check

Basic editing:

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I got nothing.

 

[Ever_Power]

if someone goes to dibbz with melee today call me up!

504-810-3459

 

[Redson]

instead of learning new brawl tactics, we should all start picking up a new hobby... like competitive swimming!

+5 awesome points for irony. I seriously thought you were going to say Melee with that one.

 

[jiovanni007]

I had sex with Ranji and jiovanni.

We need some NOLA SMASH T-Shirts with our Screen names on them and our main.

I have a new veichle again yay.

f#ckin rite, that **** was tite as hell too.

Anyway, My allergies flared up so no liquor for me tonight since I'm medicated. That means mofoz need to hit up Dibbz with some Wiis so we can get some Brawl in.

 

[Battousai780]

its 1,000x easier for DDD's d.air...DI's footstool combo headbutt is REDICULOUSLY hard.

as far as nonsmash hobbies: i been jogging 2x a week at least for a couple months now. furthest i've ran is 5.2 miles, but thats under perfect conditions. i'm about to go for a fun in an hour i think, hopefully i can make 3.5

Why only 2 days a week? You might as well go at least every other day. But then again, I don't know your daily schedule, so yeah. Also, once you get to a seven mile mark, you can pretty much go on forever.

 

[Foursaken]

lmao. Foreskin, <3s. I'm glad SOMEONE remembered that. I pulled the drapes over the Fogo Magic. XD

You should totally come post over in the LA thread some. :o

Oh shiz, I'm coming to Dallas again in like, two weeks noooowwww~ It's gonna be awesome times again. :D

*still sad he didn't get to grab your for crews* Getting second to last in draft order suuuccckkkkkeeeeddd.

I could have gotten to do crew battles with Su(ledge camp)dai?! This is bull****.

I didn't even get notes taken on me.

Well almost, but I had to show you I wasn't a scrub in my matches against the best yoshi evar.