The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

[MattX20]

This is what you are looking for, no?

Yep, that's exactly what I was looking for. Maybe we'll see a reveal for this tournament instead of the first.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yep, that's exactly what I was looking for. Maybe we'll see a reveal for this tournament instead of the first.

With this tourney, Comic Con, and Nintendo just becoming more active as of late, it does feel like something notable to Smash is gonna happen.

 

[NTDO89]

We talk about Ashley being popular in Japan all the time but in actuality, K. Rool is more popular than her there. Moreover, he's popular in the West too.

Your proof, please? Preferably not the same poll everyone uses from Source Gaming.

 

[SiddShidds]

Ashley's by far the most popular character in Japan!

Source: Trust me bro.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Your proof, please? Preferably not the same poll everyone uses from Source Gaming.

Isn't this poll the only thing we had to even get a small taste of what Japan wanted?

I will be honest I saw very little regarding Ashley pre-Smash 4 in general in comparison to K.Rool. And when the Ballot hit I still saw even less in regards to her. The fact that she was an AT may have been why most just ignored her (like Ridley being a stage hazard diverted most of his fan-base). I did see plenty of Japan stuff regarding K.Rool though...non-stop.

Here is just one of the many examples:


I am def sure Japan still wants Ashley though. However, standing back and looking at the past situations as well as what we had to go off of. K.Rool seemed to just pop up more everywhere. Within the past 6 months it does seem like Ashley has become much more popular, but I'd still *gun to my head* bet that K. Rool is wanted more there even if only by 20-30%. That is why I wish we had more concrete evidence the each regions' Smash desires instead of one off polls. Less to go off of just means assumptions will take the form of fact over time.

I love Ashley btw. She is in my top 5 with K. Rool and Geno

 

[Noipoi]

K Rool is absolutely more wanted than Ashley by sheer numbers alone. But just because more people want K Rool doesn't mean a lot of people don't want Ashley because that's just not true! A ton of people want her in Smash and I think her Mii costume at the end of Smash 4 was a sign that Sakuari knows this.

 

[mynameisBlade]

K Rool is absolutely more wanted than Ashley by sheer numbers alone. But just because more people want K Rool doesn't mean a lot of people don't want Ashley because that's just not true! A ton of people want her in Smash and I think her Mii costume at the end of Smash 4 was a sign that Sakuari knows this.

I couldn't agree more. I absolutely want Ashley in this game. Even if I wasn't already a HUGE K. Rool fan, I'd still stand behind how much more wanted he "seems". I did the same with Ridley when K.Rool was becoming popular. Ridley was still the next most likely and here he is. In a perfect world we will get K. Rool, Geno, Ashley and some other big crazy picks as well. Banjo? Crash? Isaac?

 

[Kotor]

That is why I wish we had more concrete evidence the each regions' Smash desires instead of one off polls.

The tragedy of it is we'll never know how well everyone did. If that information was ever released after the end of Smash 4's DLC development, we'd have a mix of people campaigning for the highly voted characters, people ignoring them because they expect them to be in the next Smash because of how well they did, and people complaining about the rankings of certain characters. Bayonetta probably was 1st place in Europe's side during the first two weeks into the ballot, but I'm not sure if she maintained that all the way to the end of the Ballot's lifespan.

 

[Nap_]

Sakurai and his team check the feedback for sure, they will know about Ashley support, among many other things. There's one thing in all this support threads, and that's... The support. Newcomer ideas come with it, and Smash roster is not only fanbase most wanted, there's unexpected characters or not so expected. If Ashley is not the most popular it means nothing, maybe she catch Sakurai attention in another way, who knows, she's famous enough. Even K. Rool is not guaranteed.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

https://youtu.be/ACGk65Q1wFc
You guys saw this already? It's so cute, some of her lines here could be used in Smash

 

[The Eternal Penguin]

https://youtu.be/ACGk65Q1wFc
You guys saw this already? It's so cute, some of her lines here could be used in Smash

WarioWare Gold probably has enough Ashley voice lines that they could just be reused for Smash. They might not even need to record any new ones.

 

[meleebrawler]

https://youtu.be/ACGk65Q1wFc
You guys saw this already? It's so cute, some of her lines here could be used in Smash

Yeah, uh, I think her older quotes would work better in a Smash setting. These kind of refer to the player directly, which would be a bit awkward in a fight. They could work as taunts or victory phrases, though. Of course this is all assuming they don't record new lines.

This post reminds me, she actually weaponizes her death stare in this microgame collection. Do the Luigi allusions never end!?

K Rool is absolutely more wanted than Ashley by sheer numbers alone. But just because more people want K Rool doesn't mean a lot of people don't want Ashley because that's just not true! A ton of people want her in Smash and I think her Mii costume at the end of Smash 4 was a sign that Sakuari knows this.

Not to mention there could be a lot of overlap. Nobody has to be beholden to only one character, after all.

Personally I cast my vote for Namco's Valkyrie, just cause I wanted to see more games from her.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Isn't this poll the only thing we had to even get a small taste of what Japan wanted?
View attachment 153788
I will be honest I saw very little regarding Ashley pre-Smash 4 in general in comparison to K.Rool. And when the Ballot hit I still saw even less in regards to her. The fact that she was an AT may have been why most just ignored her (like Ridley being a stage hazard diverted most of his fan-base). I did see plenty of Japan stuff regarding K.Rool though...non-stop.

Here is just one of the many examples:
View attachment 153789

I am def sure Japan still wants Ashley though. However, standing back and looking at the past situations as well as what we had to go off of. K.Rool seemed to just pop up more everywhere. Within the past 6 months it does seem like Ashley has become much more popular, but I'd still *gun to my head* bet that K. Rool is wanted more there even if only by 20-30%. That is why I wish we had more concrete evidence the each regions' Smash desires instead of one off polls. Less to go off of just means assumptions will take the form of fact over time.

I love Ashley btw. She is in my top 5 with K. Rool and Geno

Here's the article that Source Gaming wrote on it.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

I think we should be more careful how we frame this poll's results. SG probably agrees that this only indicates that Ashley is discussed more than average over there and her chances of her getting in are seen as high among hardcore Japanese Smash fans during the Smash Ballot. Pretty wordy, but it's more accurate than saying she probably got top 20 on the actual Japanese ballot.

The problem with anecdotes is that different people can get very different viewpoints on who or who isn't popular depending on their experience. I imagine how Push went about collecting his data was a lot more controlled which gives more credence to his results.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Yeah, uh, I think her older quotes would work better in a Smash setting. These kind of refer to the player directly, which would be a bit awkward in a fight. They could work as taunts or victory phrases, though. Of course this is all assuming they don't record new lines.

This post reminds me, she actually weaponizes her death stare in this microgame collection. Do the Luigi allusions never end!?



Not to mention there could be a lot of overlap. Nobody has to be beholden to only one character, after all.

Personally I cast my vote for Namco's Valkyrie, just cause I wanted to see more games from her.

Yeah that's what I kind of meant mainly for her taunts and victory poses

 

[Capybara Gaming]

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think Mii costumes are "evidence" for a character's inclusion so much as simply acknowledging the character's popularity; for example, see what happened to Takamaru (or heck, even Knuckles).

Not that I'm claiming all people believe this, but I've seen a lot of people who legitimately think that "X character is getting in because they're a Mii costume!"

Oh boy, I've always wanted Gil from Tower of Druaga in Smash! Gil confirmed!
/sarcasm

 

[LittleKrool]

simply acknowledging the character's popularity

And this is why we think Ashley has a better chance.

 

[Demonfunds]

As much as I hate to say it, I don't think Mii costumes are "evidence" for a character's inclusion so much as simply acknowledging the character's popularity; for example, see what happened to Takamaru (or heck, even Knuckles).

Not that I'm claiming all people believe this, but I've seen a lot of people who legitimately think that "X character is getting in because they're a Mii costume!"

Oh boy, I've always wanted Gil from Tower of Druaga in Smash! Gil confirmed!
/sarcasm

I don't think a mii costume is evidence for them being in 100 percent, I simply think it's a way of knowing of what's on Sakurai's radar in terms of popularity, which gives them a slight edge, Ridley got in because of popularity of the western fanbase, and when Sakurai just got done talking about bringing everyone back he said "We think this is what will make the most people happy" I think Sakurai's goal this time around is to please the most fans as possible, and a good way of doing this would be putting in popular characters like Ridley.

 

[Calane]

Well, there's a possibility that the sales of a character's Mii costume could help their inclusion. Perhaps, in a way, they were used to gauge interest in certain characters. Looking at the sales of each individual costume would certainly show how wanted some characters were over others.

Perhaps Takamaru didn't make it because his Mii costume didn't reveal massive interest via sales.

I have nothing to back this up, but it's something to think about. I'm sure that some Mii costumes sold better than others, so they could have been used to justify a character's inclusion in the new game... Or not, I don't know.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Well, there's a possibility that the sales of a character's Mii costume could help their inclusion. Perhaps, in a way, they were used to gauge interest in certain characters. Looking at the sales of each individual costume would certainly show how wanted some characters were over others.

Perhaps Takamaru didn't make it because his Mii costume didn't reveal massive interest via sales.

I have nothing to back this up, but it's something to think about. I'm sure that some Mii costumes sold better than others, so they could have been used to justify a character's inclusion in the new game... Or not, I don't know.

Sales would be such a terrible way of identifying those things though. I know some people certainly bought into the idea at the time of those costumes, but I guarantee more people were just overall indifferent to a number of those Mii costumes. I certainly know people who only bought stages and characters like myself. Mii costumes were cosmetic DLC at the end of the day, and people were a lot less likely to be interested as a result I feel. Not to mention people who potentially were only angered more by said costumes and chose to boycott them...

Geno and King K. Rool were the only two I found any sort of merit having genuine special points as Geno had nothing in the game, while King K. Rool was only a regular trophy. They were the "irrelevant" picks who finally got attention thanks to Mii costumes. And while I think Mii costume characters have a decent chance of getting in, I doubt the Mii costumes really had much impact after their conceptions to be honest other than possibly gauging how fans responded to them overall.

 

[Calane]

Sales would be such a terrible way of identifying those things though. I know some people certainly bought into the idea at the time of those costumes, but I guarantee more people were just overall indifferent to a number of those Mii costumes. I certainly know people who only bought stages and characters like myself. Mii costumes were cosmetic DLC at the end of the day, and people were a lot less likely to be interested as a result I feel. Not to mention people who potentially were only angered more by said costumes and chose to boycott them...

Geno and King K. Rool were the only two I found any sort of merit having genuine special points as Geno had nothing in the game, while King K. Rool was only a regular trophy. They were the "irrelevant" picks who finally got attention thanks to Mii costumes. And while I think Mii costume characters have a decent chance of getting in, I doubt the Mii costumes really had much impact after their conceptions to be honest other than possibly gauging how fans responded to them overall.

...I mean, I was just saying that it could have been something they looked at when deciding on new characters. It's a possibility, I think. I wasn't trying to argue that it was a great way to judge how popular a character is as a whole.

I was just putting the idea on the table, nothing more.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

With all due respect, I don't think anyone's chances are as good as K. Rool's. We talk about Ashley being popular in Japan all the time but in actuality, K. Rool is more popular than her there. Moreover, he's popular in the West too.

I'd actually put her on the same tier as Bandana Dee.

Eh. I think many people on this site tend to overrate K. Rool's chances. Sure he's very popular among hardcore fans and highly requested, but Ashley still has relevance over him which is huge.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Eh. I think many people on this site tend to overrate K. Rool's chances. Sure he's very popular among hardcore fans and highly requested, but Ashley still has relevance over him which is huge.

K. Rool's irrelevance is the biggest indicator that he actually has great chances. I see people make this argument all the time against Geno as well but I do think it should give anyone pause to consider why an "irrelevant" character like K. Rool or Geno are getting Mii costumes. Mind you, I'm not saying that Mii costumes guarantee entry, they obviously don't. But if costumes are an indicator of popularity or number of character requests then it's a huge red flag when Geno and K. Rool get one. It's safe to make the logical leap that they both did alright in the ballot and it does seem to be a fair theory given Sakurai's comments (regarding Geno, extrapolated to K. Rool). Whereas on the other hand... you'd have to wonder if Ashley received many requests as well or if she's just popular and relevant.

Not that her chances are hurt by being popular and relevant.

Your proof, please? Preferably not the same poll everyone uses from Source Gaming.

Unfortunately, we don't have any concrete evidence we can go by. I believe Source Gaming's methodology is a hair better than random polling but that's also just a small request pool amongst, presumably, hardcore fans. I've also dived into several of the more popular Japanese sites to, ironically, see how often Ashley was being requested and instead I'd see about 10 K. Rools for every 1 Ashley. Still, that's anecdotal. There's really no surefire way to tell if we can't trust polling or scouting.

All I can do is read the tea leaves so my guess is as good as anyone else's.

Keep in mind though, I want Ashley more than I want K. Rool. To be frank, I don't actually "want" K. Rool so much as I would just like to see his fans happy in the same vein that I didn't "want" Ridley but wanted to see his fans happy. I actually do want Ashley, though.

But I also really want Shantae. More than any other character. Still, I can recognize that her chances are virtually non-existent. And I really DON'T want Sora. But I have to admit he has a better shot than I would care for. (Certainly not a guarantee by any means, it just sickens me that he has a "shot" at all; no offense to Sora fans).

I try to temper my expectations and keep things in perspective. I don't want to get caught in the trap of thinking that "side character Ashley from WarioWare" is the #1 Most Likely Smash Newcomer. But hey, I recognize that that's just my opinion and someone else's logic might lead them to assume otherwise. Nothing suggests that my method of thinking is the correct one. I just think tempering expectations is a good practice since, if we're really being honest, no one is a guarantee.

So sure, I suppose I'll retract my previous comment since the evidence can only be considered anecdotal.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

...I mean, I was just saying that it could have been something they looked at when deciding on new characters. It's a possibility, I think. I wasn't trying to argue that it was a great way to judge how popular a character is as a whole.

I was just putting the idea on the table, nothing more.

I wasn't trying to call you out on it specifically, just voicing why I think sales data for Mii costumes wouldn't be a good metric for anyone to use in determining who was desired. While I'm sure more fans bought say King K. Rool, Geno, and Ashley than Takumaru, I highly doubt the Mii costume sales data had any effect on potential newcomers.

There's nothing wrong with putting the idea out there though! I just don't agree haha.

On another note, saying that Ashley is the character with the highest chances for the game or that she is a lock feels a little dishonest. We know she has a bigger following in Japan than elsewhere, as noted with the merchandise from her character, prevalence in Nintendo Badge Arcade, and the fact she managed to show up in polls at all in comparison to the states prior to Smash Ultimate's actual reveal. But as to how big that actual following is, we only have as much anecdotal evidence as anyone else supporting any character.

Sure, we have one specific poll with not the greatest measuring standards in terms of sampling, and the most dedicated are going to respond to such things so that further skews results in favor of the most vocal supporters. But as much as people are tired of it being brought up, it is one of the only semi-legitimate ones I've seen done with time and effort invested into it. It's not a worthless statistic, even if it isn't necessarily a good statistic. For a sample size regarding Smash players in Japan, around 600 like Source Gaming noted would likely be at least a decent, if not a good sample size to work with for higher confidence levels. I just don't love seeing this poll get ragged on. It's not like we have a whole lot of people willing to put this kind of work into stuff like this, specifically for Japan.

I want Ashley in, and she certainly has a number of things going for her that help to significantly raise her chances, but let's not place our expectations too ridiculously high. She suffers majorly in foreign desires beyond Japan, and that would be her biggest obstacle going forward.

 

[Calane]

I wasn't trying to call you out on it specifically, just voicing why I think sales data for Mii costumes wouldn't be a good metric for anyone to use in determining who was desired. While I'm sure more fans bought say King K. Rool, Geno, and Ashley than Takumaru, I highly doubt the Mii costume sales data had any effect on potential newcomers.

There's nothing wrong with putting the idea out there though! I just don't agree haha.

On another note, saying that Ashley is the character with the highest chances for the game or that she is a lock feels a little dishonest. We know she has a bigger following in Japan than elsewhere, as noted with the merchandise from her character, prevalence in Nintendo Badge Arcade, and the fact she managed to show up in polls at all in comparison to the states prior to Smash Ultimate's actual reveal. But as to how big that actual following is, we only have as much anecdotal evidence as anyone else supporting any character.

Sure, we have one specific poll with not the greatest measuring standards in terms of sampling, and the most dedicated are going to respond to such things so that further skews results in favor of the most vocal supporters. But as much as people are tired of it being brought up, it is one of the only semi-legitimate ones I've seen done with time and effort invested into it. It's not a worthless statistic, even if it isn't necessarily a good statistic. For a sample size regarding Smash players in Japan, around 600 like Source Gaming noted would likely be at least a decent, if not a good sample size to work with for higher confidence levels. I just don't love seeing this poll get ragged on. It's not like we have a whole lot of people willing to put this kind of work into stuff like this, specifically for Japan.

I want Ashley in, and she certainly has a number of things going for her that help to significantly raise her chances, but let's not place our expectations too ridiculously high. She suffers majorly in foreign desires beyond Japan, and that would be her biggest obstacle going forward.

I suppose the notion that Mii costume sales would effect anything is rather silly. I sort of regret ever bringing up the idea. It's because of mistakes like these that I don't comment very often. I'll keep my ridiculous ideas to myself next time.

I don't have much else to say regarding the rest of your reply.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I suppose the notion that Mii costume sales would effect anything is rather silly. I sort of regret ever bringing up the idea. It's because of mistakes like these that I don't comment very often. I'll keep my ridiculous ideas to myself next time.

I don't have much else to say regarding the rest of your reply.

I don’t know if it means anything, but I thought it was a logical thing to assume, and I would have never thought of it.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

I suppose the notion that Mii costume sales would effect anything is rather silly. I sort of regret ever bringing up the idea. It's because of mistakes like these that I don't comment very often. I'll keep my ridiculous ideas to myself next time.

I don't have much else to say regarding the rest of your reply.

Nah man, keep commenting. >_>

We're all basically on the same playing field here. Unless you're an insider, nobody here can really claim to have concrete evidence to the contrary. Mii costume sales would be an interesting data point to consider. We obviously don't have access to the numbers but say, if one of the Mii costumes is far and away more popular in terms of sales than any of the other ones, I'm sure Nintendo would take note of it.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I suppose the notion that Mii costume sales would effect anything is rather silly. I sort of regret ever bringing up the idea. It's because of mistakes like these that I don't comment very often. I'll keep my ridiculous ideas to myself next time.

The idea of Nintendo taking note of a Mii Costume selling well isn't ridiculous. Of course, none of us have a record of Mii Costume sales (and therefore cannot gauge how monetarily desirable characters like Ashley, Geno, and K. Rool truly are), so any further talk about them is speculation, but what else is new?

Obviously, some of the costumes were fanservice for fans of considerably niche properties, but there were certainly costumes based off of fan-favorite characters, and the fact that Nintendo put out themed DLC that consumers had to pay for obviously shows that Nintendo believed that characters like Ashley and Geno could turn a profit.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I support, seeing as her odds of being playable have significantly increased, as some obvious ones (Waluigi, Knuckles, Krystal, and Bomberman) are assists and she wasn't shown at E3.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I support, seeing as her odds of being playable have significantly increased, as some obvious ones (Waluigi, Knuckles, Krystal, and Bomberman) are assists and she wasn't shown at E3.

Welcome to the club, friend! Hopefully, with the tournament thing later tonight going on in Japan, Ashley will either remain suspiciously MIA or even finally ascend to her rightful place!

 

[Space Detective]

Hopefully, with the tournament thing later tonight going on in Japan, Ashley will either remain suspiciously MIA or even finally ascend to her rightful place!

I would be very surprised if they had a new build prepared for the Osaka tournament, considering the last one just had the same E3 build we've been seeing for a while.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I would be very surprised if they had a new build prepared for the Osaka tournament, considering the last one just had the same E3 build we've been seeing for a while.

And it has both Smash and Aces again, right? It's just for those that live closer to Osaka to get a chance to try the games out. We won't see a new demo likely until there's a newcomer reveal ahead of time.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Seeing as Sakurai knew putting in Ridley and bringing everyone back would please fans, I would be surprised if we didn't get any out of King K. Rool, Ashley, Bandanna Dee, Geno, and Lycanroc.

 

[meleebrawler]

Seeing as Sakurai knew putting in Ridley and bringing everyone back would please fans, I would be surprised if we didn't get any out of King K. Rool, Ashley, Bandanna Dee, Geno, and Lycanroc.

As far as Gen 7 Pokemon go, for me it's between Decidueye and Tapu Koko. As much as I like Lycanroc (Midday or Dusk), I don't see him having the clout (ie starring in a movie) of mons like Lucario to be playable. Jigglypuff and Pichu are special cases (popular in it's day for the former, easy moveset cloning for the latter).

I wonder if Beast Balls will appear that allow us to summon Ultra Beasts?

 

[DeltaSceptile]

As far as Gen 7 Pokemon go, for me it's between Decidueye and Tapu Koko. As much as I like Lycanroc (Midday or Dusk), I don't see him having the clout (ie starring in a movie) of mons like Lucario to be playable.

Remember how Greninja was poster-mon for the gen 6 anime? I don't Lycanroc needs an explanation, as he/she is the iconic gen 7 anime pokemon and is, because of that and unique moveset potential, probably the most likely newcomer for pokemon.

 

[meleebrawler]

Which popularity came first: the Smash or the Pokemon? That is the question for Greninja.

 

[EarlTamm]

Which popularity came first: the Smash or the Pokemon? That is the question for Greninja.

Sakurai said that all he had for Greninja was concept art. I think Smash just influenced Greninja's role and popularity greatly.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Which Pokemon gets in is pretty much based on their popularity, who is pushed by the Pokemon company, and how relevant they are.
Remember, Sakurai has to go to the Pokemon Co. for any mon he wants to put in smash.

 

[EarlTamm]

Which Pokemon gets in is pretty much based on their popularity, who is pushed by the Pokemon company, and how relevant they are.

But when it come's to Gen 7 Pokemon, the choice would have been made before the games came out, so popularity does not really factor and all are equally relevant. Also, I don't think the Pokemon company would force Sakurai to pick a specific Pokemon based on plan's, that does not seem like something they would do and Sakurai likely would not like that sort of thing. In all likelihood Sakurai would be looking over concept art again, where Lycanroc has an extreme disadvantage due to it's lackluster concept art. And if there is anything Sakurai would prioritize looking at, it would naturally be the starters.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Imo Lycanroc just makes more sense from a gameplay standpoint, as Sakurai has chosen to make this game faster paced. Besides, there has been several times where characters were added after the "final roster" was confirmed. Sakurai could've easily waited to see how sun and moon did as well as looking at the anime. There's no reason to assume that Decidueye is a shoo-in, considering the multiple other options. Remember what happened with Chrom? We could just as easily get Incineroar or even Primarina(As bad as that would be). I'm not against Decidueye, I just prefer Lycanroc.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Imo Lycanroc just makes more sense from a gameplay standpoint, as Sakurai has chosen to make this game faster paced. Besides, there has been several times where characters were added after the "final roster" was confirmed. Sakurai could've easily waited to see how sun and moon did as well as looking at the anime. There's no reason to assume that Decidueye is a shoo-in, considering the multiple other options. Remember what happened with Chrom?

Sakurai probably wouldn't add Lycanroc after seeing his rise in relevance if he already had a gen 7 rep being developed. I don't think Decid is a shoo-in as the next Poke rep, or that a that a new Poke rep is guaranteed at all, but he seems to be the most likely pick if there is one.