The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

[Tasokun]

I have not logged in in many, many years.. Here goes nothing.

Ashley is a character that I've always wanted in, she has a great design and I've always liked witches and mages. Her personality would also be quite unique for Smash, she's serious and doesn't take crap from anyone. I also love her partner, Red. In general, I feel like WarioWare deserves a second representative. The series needs more love, it's such a unique and fun concept.

I'm generally more of the quiet type, so I've just been lurking this thread ever since the first few pages. I never felt like I had to do anything because, I was under the impression that Ashley had so much support to the point where her chances were fairly great. I thought she had a great chance despite me not having to put my voice on here. I was wrong. Ashley's deconfirmation was a real hit to the heart. Yikes. After that, I realized that I needed to also contribute here. I apologize for my delay but it's always better late than never.

I just wanted to provide my reassurance that there are several Ashley fans out there, quietly observing this thread. Our numbers are amazingly huge, and Ashley has a massive amount of fans. Please don't feel disparaged, guys! I would also like to encourage others out there like myself to chime in. Hopefully we can get Ashley as DLC. We can't give up and that is our next step.

 

[FooltheFlames]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...nt_waluigi_in_smash_bros_ultimate_says_reggie

This link above is an old article, but it relates to a point that I have been wanting to bring up. How do we get Ashley noticed to the point where a figure like Reggie is forced to address her? But in a positive way of course, unlike the Waluigi memers. If we can get a thing like this to happen like it did with Waluigi, I'll consider her support campaign a victory! Until then though I will not relent; I came here today for ideas and to see if there's been any head way on her noble cause. I'm still wondering on how we can get several of her biggest supporters all rallied at he same time, to something, anything. I think that's the best way, I think the time should be this Wednesday maybe? A week after her reveal sounds good. Or we should wait until there's a new post by Sakurai somewhere and flood it, but with positive support like cute artwork and stuff. There has to be a sizeable amount of us all doing this at once though for this to work. Can we do it or not? are we still able to organize it at this point? Is anyone still with me here?

So if Ashley were to be a DLC character, anyone think she’d use her WarioWare Gold appearance?

Nah, I feel that design strays too far from Ashley's normal look. We'd probably get something similar to the assist trophy model.

I wouldn't mind seeing her 3D model from Gold (the one in Pumpkin Panic) being used as the base for a new a "Smashified" version of her look though~

 

[Hat Kid]

I just wish there was a way we can show Sakurai how much support Ashley has. While I think he knows a bit (especially if the deconfirmation in the Direct was “ripping off the bandage”) I don’t think he knows all of it.

I would like to show Sakurai all of the “Ashley/Smash” art people have made. Now this is going to sound horrendous, but I wish Sakurai would even notice all the horrible “Anti-Ashley” fan art/videos as well (as much as I hate them). Not trying to give him a guilt trip or anything, just want him to know. That way, he will know that there’s a bunch of Ashley haters out there... And there can’t be haters, unless something is really big/popular... And if something is big and popular that people like in a game, more people will buy it... And if more people buy, that makes them more money... And isn’t that the point of a company in the end?

I know I’m grasping for straws but I dunno what else to do...

 

[pik3rob]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...nt_waluigi_in_smash_bros_ultimate_says_reggie

This link above is an old article, but it relates to a point that I have been wanting to bring up. How do we get Ashley noticed to the point where a figure like Reggie is forced to address her? But in a positive way of course, unlike the Waluigi memers. If we can get a thing like this to happen like it did with Waluigi, I'll consider her support campaign a victory! Until then though I will not relent; I came here today for ideas and to see if there's been any head way on her noble cause. I'm still wondering on how we can get several of her biggest supporters all rallied at he same time, to something, anything. I think that's the best way, I think the time should be this Wednesday maybe? A week after her reveal sounds good. Or we should wait until there's a new post by Sakurai somewhere and flood it, but with positive support like cute artwork and stuff. There has to be a sizeable amount of us all doing this at once though for this to work. Can we do it or not? are we still able to organize it at this point? Is anyone still with me here?



I wouldn't mind seeing her 3D model from Gold (the one in Pumpkin Panic) being used as the base for a new a "Smashified" version of her look though~

Hmmm, the thing about Waluigi is that he was noticed partly due to outcry from fans, but also because he was deconfirmed around E3 where Reggie was doing lots of interviews, and was in the public eye. Reggie seems to mostly stay quiet and do his job most of the time, so even if there was a flood of outcry for Ashley, he wouldn't say anything about it since he's not in a position to be approached about it. I'm sure Sakurai (who is the far more important person to make an impression on) knows about her popularity. While he hasn't directly called her a rising star like some people claimed, the Mii costume does at least show that he has on some level noticed her popularity. As for what we do, of course we can flood mentions of her, specifically her eventual Pic of The Day reveal with tons of support. Showing support in a positive way can only really help our cause. Buying Warioware Gold is also an option. Nintendo needs to see that the series is profitable, and as a result will continue supporting it. This means Ashley will get more attention, and her popularity will grow. In the short term, I think supporting a Mario Kart 9 appearance would also help and get the general public to notice her presence. I kind of doubt Mario Kart 9 will venture into Warioware characters, but if they did, then Ashley's the one they'd get. There's also a possible Smash Ballot 2 after the game is released. Of course her Assist Trophy might get in the way of her being added in Ultimate even if she does good in the ballot, but just like the first one, it'll probably be used to see which characters are popular for possible inclusion in future games. This is probably where our campaign would have to be the most aggressive since the ballot results are sent directly to the developers and Sakurai. We shouldn't be annoying with our urging for people to vote for Ashley because that would only turn people against us, but we do still need to make Ashley as popular as she was in the prime of her speculation for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Rob pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Btw, does anyone know why the Waluigi speculation thread went under? I'd like to avoid the same mistakes they made that got them booted out.

 

[TooBadWaluigiTime]

Btw, does anyone know why the Waluigi speculation thread went under? I'd like to avoid the same mistakes they made that got them booted out.

It went under thanks to the whole Twitter fiasco back in June. GoldenYuiitusin wanted it closed.

 

[Samcrumpit]

It went under thanks to the whole Twitter fiasco back in June. GoldenYuiitusin wanted it closed.

Oof I thought it was something bad that the people in the thread were responsible for. I'm just guessing that Waluigi fans get an exaggerated reputation.

 

[TriforceBun]

My condolences to the Ashley fans. I was actually hoping she'd be the second WarioWare rep too--her and Bomberman would've made better characters than ATs. The fact that she and Waluigi were both assists makes me wonder if there's a comic potential there...

 

[Dixie Kong]

I’m really sorry Ashley didn’t make it in! I support Ashley for the future, she’s bound to become a newcomer eventually.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

With how fast the support is spreading, I’d be surprised if Sakurai didn’t break the fan made rule using Ashley as an example.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Imo, it’s the “let’s kill off th Ashley Fan base asap before it gets even bigger and people don’t get their hopes up even more.” Or ripping of the bandage as others have said.

Little do they know instead of killing us they only made us STRONGER >:D

Tried to come up with a moveset incorporating as much as I could from the games as well as some skin ideas


Intro - ashley rides in on her broom and hops up. It changes to red and the two high five
Walk - based off her walk in warioware during cutscenes
Dash - rides on her broom Dash attack - drops from her broom and spins with her bunny
Jab - a 3 hit combo with her bunny
Uptilt - spins her wand above her head
Ftilt - spins her wand in front of her
Dtilt - lays on the ground, snaps her fingers creating a blast of fire
Crouch - like bayo but she lays over a book. The book poofs away when she gets up
Fsmash - a fast bolt of lightning from her wand
Dsmash - the skull book slams down in front of her
Upsmash - summons a monster plant that shoots up and chomps
Nair - spins her wand around her
Fair - shoots a purple blast from her wand that goes a short distance
Bair - a multi hit. Red stabs behind her with his trident
Dair - red stabs his trident below her
Upair - red stabs his trident several times above her
Grab pummel - red throws pumpkins at the opppnent while ashley holds them
Throws - ashley cooks the opponent in a caludron b4 launching them



Up special - does a firey loop t loop with her broom. After she falls with her umbrella
Neutral special - hex charm. Casts a purple cloud like her at. It has a debuff period after use but it remains for 10 seconds. While the opponent is in the cloud they become lighter, and their damage is reduced while ashleys damage is increased.
Down b - pumpkin toss. Ashley summons a pumpkin and throws it. It bounces along the ground. If it hits the opponent it splatters.
Side b - like pacman side b. She creates a line of pink dots and rushes forward during it. Can be aimed



Final smash - ashleys hair becomes white and she cooks the opponent in a massive cauldron as red throws in spices. The humngur then appears and eats the cauldron. Launching red and ashley away while the opponent dies



Taunt 1 - motions "shhh" while flaring her hips.
Taunt 2 - red taps ashleys shoulders and points at the opponent. Ashley nods
Taunt 3 - summons a random item from warioware that falls on red



Idle 1 - hugs her bunny
Idle 2 - flips her pigtails behind her
Idle 3 - brings her wand up to her face and shouts hocus pocus



Lose - becomes a demon like angry face like from the game while red claps for her

lol i had the same idea for using her witches cauldron for her throws! Maybe we think alike? My moveset is back on page 104; ive since revised it though in my own documents so it's different now than the one back there.

Hey guys, here's my support to Ashley! Hope you like it and share it :3

https://twitter.com/Leehzart_Labs/status/1028510812137316352

#breakthespell, nice! Breakthecurse would work well too, don't you think?

I am curious, who made that picture?

Some sadistic freak who doesn't know a lick about Ashley. All this Ashley hate art that's been going around just shows me they don't know Ashley's character at all! She's not some cry baby, she's tough as nails and then some!

Let’s wait a little to start campaigning guys, like a little later this week we can start but we should make the account as soon as possible.

That's probably for the best, yes. I'm still not sure how to go about this tbh

At this rate, I’d say after every bit of dlc we will be pretty close to if not at 90 Characters (seeing as this game will last at least 2 years), and I’d be very surprised if Ashley isn’t one of them. I also have something that is bothering me: we are pretty much guaranteed to end with more fire emblem clones than Mario, and maybe even pokemon in general. It sucks to have series like WarioWare, DKC, and Zelda struggle to earn any new reps (let’s face it, Zelda’s newest is toon link and that was ten years ago from a franchise that deserves more reps than fire emblem anyway and is getting shammed considering half of what they already have are links.)

That is so true about what you said about the Zelda series. I've been ready for a real newcomer for Zelda for a loooong time~

God, after this I swear to never ever gloat over or make fun at fans of characters who get disconfirmed (not that it was something I did anyways). It really hurts with basically the entire internet laughing at Ashley fans. This must be how Waluigi supporters feel.

That's why I'm grateful this place exists, because people here are generally respectful of Ashley's supporters. Go other places (reddit, ugh) and people are like "who the **** is ashley?? LOL idiots thinking some irrelevant character no one knows deserves to get in. now back to why i think Isaac/Rayman/Crash/Labo Man deserve to get in..."

As I've said, those haters don't know anything about the real Ashley. They're just attacking an idea of her that they have in their head instead of the real her, becuz they've all been portraying her out of character.
It's actually funny though how they've been very sore 'winners' about all this. They like to laugh about how she never had a chance, but in reality they've all only proven how threatened they've feeled by her growing popularity and precense. And ironically, they are only increasing the awareness of her by partaking in these sad things

OK I'm not the kind of guy who likes to spread out false hope to others or myself, but even before Ashley's Assist Trophy confirmation, I've been thinking about how DLC would go for this game and now with Ashley's current state I'm doubling down on it.

It's obvious that Nintendo is sitting on a goldmine here. What I think a lot of people aren't taking into consideration however is just how long Nintendo could keep it going for. Nintendo have already made statements indicating that they are going to keep the Switch beyond the typical console life-cycle, and Smash games only come once a game generation. With Smash coming in fairly early into the Switch's life, it's going to sell even more consoles on top of the incredible success Nintendo is already having with the Switch. I wouldn't count out the possibility that Nintendo is gonna want to support this game for 75% of the Switch's life-cycle, which if we're assuming is around 7 or 8 years is a heck of a long time, giving us a lot of DLC characters.

That's just the obvious though, the other half of the equation is that of Amiibo, or as I would put it:

We know for sure that every single fighter that gets in gets their own Amiibo, and that Amiibo in general makes a ton of money for Nintendo and holds the honor of being the last "Toys To Life" product that hasn't gone under yet (aside from the yet unreleased "Starlink"). If I was a Nintendo marketer, the first question I would ask myself is "What character do we have available to us that for sure people will shell out money to collect?" Ashley is so popular in Japan that she is used to market games that she doesn't even appear in! In general Nintendo are pushing her hardcore because they know she sells. I don't think the importance of having an Amiibo to sell should be overlooked in potential Smash candidates.

Plus, if there's anything that playing Fire Emblem Heroes has taught me, it's that people will pay bank to get their...I am not gonna describe Ashley as a Waifu because heck no am I bringing that sin into this board or our precious little witch-in-training (Ravioli ravioli don't lewd the witchy loli). The point is there are are always going to be a certain portion of the audience that will buy almost anything featuring a certain element or character that they love, and Ashley is undoubtedly one of these characters.

To me it just makes too much sense not to do and the stars are lining up for her as we speak. Still though, it's up to Sakurai and if he doesn't feel like doing it, then I will respectfully accept his decision.

Thanks for not calling her a waifu
As someone who's been into anime for a long time, I remember there used to be an age where words like that and weeaboo never existed; it's all so cringe.

This question was asked on the Mona thread, since Ashley is now axed from the base roster, would we be willing to show our support for other Warioware characters? I love Warioware now, so I have shown my support to the Mona and Katana threads.

Beyond me wanting them as female fighters for the cast, it's important to bridge any divide we have with the general Wario community. People may get the wrong idea that we generally don't care for the series and while it's not wrong to just like Ashley's potential in Smash, I don't think it's accurate to us as a group.

So I encourage you, if you care enough about Warioware representation, to show your support in those threads.

I just showed my support for Kat & Ana, so I guess the Mona thread is next for me!
Still... if one of them gets in while Ashley doesn't, I'm going to have very mixed feelings about it.

while Mona usually was my top pick from wario ware... I have to admit that this whole speculation cycle have made the idea of ashley as a playable character grow on me a lot.

Add me to teh supporter lists, even if pledging support to a disconfirmed character seems super silly. On the other hands, this are the characters that need it the most XD

YES! It's no time at all to be giving up on Ashley just yet! Thankies for da supporties~<3

Exactly. Giving up because "they are already disconfirmed" is the real defeat. I gave up on Ashley once before, not anymore.

Hmmm, the thing about Waluigi is that he was noticed partly due to outcry from fans, but also because he was deconfirmed around E3 where Reggie was doing lots of interviews, and was in the public eye. Reggie seems to mostly stay quiet and do his job most of the time, so even if there was a flood of outcry for Ashley, he wouldn't say anything about it since he's not in a position to be approached about it. I'm sure Sakurai (who is the far more important person to make an impression on) knows about her popularity. While he hasn't directly called her a rising star like some people claimed, the Mii costume does at least show that he has on some level noticed her popularity. As for what we do, of course we can flood mentions of her, specifically her eventual Pic of The Day reveal with tons of support. Showing support in a positive way can only really help our cause. Buying Warioware Gold is also an option. Nintendo needs to see that the series is profitable, and as a result will continue supporting it. This means Ashley will get more attention, and her popularity will grow. In the short term, I think supporting a Mario Kart 9 appearance would also help and get the general public to notice her presence. I kind of doubt Mario Kart 9 will venture into Warioware characters, but if they did, then Ashley's the one they'd get. There's also a possible Smash Ballot 2 after the game is released. Of course her Assist Trophy might get in the way of her being added in Ultimate even if she does good in the ballot, but just like the first one, it'll probably be used to see which characters are popular for possible inclusion in future games. This is probably where our campaign would have to be the most aggressive since the ballot results are sent directly to the developers and Sakurai. We shouldn't be annoying with our urging for people to vote for Ashley because that would only turn people against us, but we do still need to make Ashley as popular as she was in the prime of her speculation for Smash Ultimate.

Okay... A lot of what you said makes good sense, and you've given me a few new ideas as well

 

[DeltaSceptile]

What is the thought process for fire emblem having more than double the reps that DK has being ok? When I think of how they come up with more from that, this is how I imagine it goes: “what series needs more reps? Fire Emblem? Another Marth clone? We obviously need 10 new sword users every game, and while we’re at it, lets deconfirm more than half the characters who are ten times more popular. Yeah that’ll work.” Yup. That’s pretty much how I envision it happens. Seriously though, imo the only characters on smash’s roster that are unique are the ones without swords. And this is coming from a guy who mains toon link in smash 4.

 

[FooltheFlames]

What is the thought process for fire emblem having more than double the reps that DK has being ok? When I think of how they come up with more from that, this is how I imagine it goes: “what series needs more reps? Fire Emblem? Another Marth clone? We obviously need 10 new sword users every game, and while we’re at it, lets deconfirm more than half the characters who are ten times more popular. Yeah that’ll work.” Yup. That’s pretty much how I envision it happens. Seriously though, imo the only characters on smash’s roster that are unique are the ones without swords. And this is coming from a guy who mains toon link in smash 4.

Just call it that legendary Sakurai bias lol
Zelda hasn't had an actual new character added to it since Melee? No problemo~
But we definitely need those 10 new sword users, just not from Zelda- And OH! Make sure at least half of them have Blue hair!

Nah but in all seriousness tho, I don't have a clue about what goes through their minds, least of all Sakurai. Seeing chrom tho made me think, 'yep. typical Sakurai choice right there ' but I was so surprised by like 10 other things in that direct

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Just call it that legendary Sakurai bias lol
Zelda hasn't had an actual new character added to it since Melee? No problemo~
But we definitely need those 10 new sword users, just not from Zelda- And OH! Make sure at least half of them have Blue hair!

Nah but in all seriousness tho, I don't have a clue about what goes through their minds, least of all Sakurai. Seeing chrom tho made me think, 'yep. typical Sakurai choice right there ' but I was so surprised by like 10 other things in that direct

Was it the fact that every mode they revealed is promising and not SMASH TOUR DELUXE EDITION!...? Or that he finally acknowledged that K. Rool exists unlike the past ten years where he has said literally nothing about him? Yeah... that direct was full of surprises, as in “things that are exactly what we want for the first time since fountain of dreams was a thing.”

 

[perfectchaos83]

This link above is an old article, but it relates to a point that I have been wanting to bring up. How do we get Ashley noticed to the point where a figure like Reggie is forced to address her? But in a positive way of course, unlike the Waluigi memers. If we can get a thing like this to happen like it did with Waluigi, I'll consider her support campaign a victory!

I would say we don't particularly need to. What is most important is just having ever present support and making it visible in online hubs is one way to do it. Nintendo has eyes all over the Internet and they do pay attention (Mother 3 notwithstanding). Things like this thread and even a general "Ashley for Smash" twitter account would work especially if said twitter account gains traction. So long as the support stays alive, who knows how far we can take it. Support, dedication and determination will go a long way, especially if we don't let the disconfirm to slow us down. What's important is to know when to bring it up. Don't continually make threads saying she should be playable or anything like that. Just bring it up in a casual conversation. In every "Which assist trophy should be playable " topic I've seen I've made it a point to say Ashley in every one and I'm happy that I see many others say the same. It may be small, but I feel it'll work out great in the long run. If you feel you have something new to bring to the table in regards to Ashley in Smash, then feel free to make a thread. Whether that be art or a moveset. We don't want to be obnoxious and spam threads saying Ashley should be playable.

Right now I think we're at a good pace. I don't see Ashley Conspiracy theories being posted too often to push people away either.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What is the thought process for fire emblem having more than double the reps that DK has being ok? When I think of how they come up with more from that, this is how I imagine it goes: “what series needs more reps? Fire Emblem? Another Marth clone? We obviously need 10 new sword users every game, and while we’re at it, lets deconfirm more than half the characters who are ten times more popular. Yeah that’ll work.” Yup. That’s pretty much how I envision it happens. Seriously though, imo the only characters on smash’s roster that are unique are the ones without swords. And this is coming from a guy who mains toon link in smash 4.

Chrom was a really popular pick, given how he was snubbed for 4. Sakurai said that on the Direct and everything.

But sure, I guess Link, Marth and Meta Knight aren’t unique, they all play the same.

 

[OdnetninAges]

What is the thought process for fire emblem having more than double the reps that DK has being ok?

It's really not that hard to figure out.

Fire Emblem's cast changes each game, and characters from one game won't resonate with fans of another.

To be frank, I didn't care for Marth and Roy as much as I did Robin and Lucina (and now Chrom) because I never played the games they came from. I have no connection with them, while I do have a connection with the Awakening cast as it was my 2nd ever Fire Emblem game (the first one I really enjoyed) and I wanted characters from Awakening specifically during the Smash 4 era. But on the other side, there are fans of Marth's games and Roy's games who do not like Awakening and its characters that much. Then you have to remember that outside of spinoffs, these characters don't ever get any other appearances outside of Smash because their stories are finished. (Warriors is literally a non-canon what-if replacement for Awakening's story from the characters' point of view.)

To compare, let's look at Pokemon. Obviously Pokemon is a much more popular series, but that makes it a great example to explain what I mean. Imagine if Pikachu and Jigglypuff were the only characters to ever appear in the entire Smash series. That would suck, right? Pokemon fans would be annoyed that no games past Gen 1 get represented. It's the same issue with Fire Emblem. It's why you'll still occasionally see requests for Hector or Lyn, as the game they are from specifically hasn't been represented in Smash (outside of an assist trophy) at all.

In comparison to both Fire Emblem and Pokemon, Donkey Kong doesn't have a lot of different generations that each have their own specific fanbase and thus needs to be represented with a playable character to please fans of the specific era. The only character you can really argue that for is K. Rool, as he was only in the older games. But Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong are in every DKC game, so they easily represent the entire series.

So if we look at it that way, this is where we're currently at with Fire Emblem representation (excluding echo fighters):

Marth (NES / SNES era)
Roy (GBA era)
Ike (late GameCube / early Wii era)
Robin (3DS era)
Corrin (3DS era)

To be completely honest, with the exception of Corrin, the Fire Emblem representation in Smash has done as good of a job as possible representing the different eras of the series over the years. Some specific games like Genealogy of the Holy War and The Blazing Blade (the first game to ever get released outside of Japan and was a prequel to Roy's game) lack any representation, but at least the era those games come from are represented in some form. In my opinion, Corrin is over representing the 3DS era, and I feel like there should have been a wait for a Three Houses rep instead as future DLC, as that's most definitely a new era for the series. (This is excluding echo fighters. If Sakurai isn't counting them in the official roster count, then neither am I, even though I've been wanting Chrom ever since Smash 4 was announced and was silly enough to think Ike getting confirmed as a veteran somehow deconfirmed him back then.)

There's just a lot to the series, and it keeps getting more with each new game with their own specific fans. With Donkey Kong, once you add K. Rool, Dixie (probably as an echo), Cranky, and potentially someone from 64, you've literally represented the entire series, and fans of one of the characters will most likely be fans of the others as well because the setting, world, and characters don't radically change with each entry.

I am a huge WarioWare fan who is desperate for more actual character representation besides just Wario. (Ashley was my most wanted character for Ultimate.) But I'm not about to sit here and pretend Chrom (an echo fighter who was a character that Awakening fans wanted before they got bamboozled with Robin) or even K. Rool (a highly requested character who was most likely going to get in this time regardless because of the ballot) somehow took that away from me.

I normally write these kinds of things out but never send them because I realize how pointless it is in the end... But I got way too into this and spent way too long writing this when I have work tomorrow and all I wanted to do was check Smashboards and watch one episode of a show before going to bed. So, just this once, I'm going to actually post my thoughts for strangers on the internet. Scary. I know I'm going to regret this...

EDIT: I accidentally said "The Binding Blade" instead of "The Blazing Blade". I went ahead and fixed this.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

It's really not that hard to figure out.

Fire Emblem's cast changes each game, and characters from one game won't resonate with fans of another.

To be frank, I didn't care for Marth and Roy as much as I did Robin and Lucina (and now Chrom) because I never played the games they came from. I have no connection with them, while I do have a connection with the Awakening cast as it was my 2nd ever Fire Emblem game (the first one I really enjoyed) and I wanted characters from Awakening specifically during the Smash 4 era. But on the other side, there are fans of Marth's games and Roy's games who do not like Awakening and its characters that much. Then you have to remember that outside of spinoffs, these characters don't ever get any other appearances outside of Smash because their stories are finished. (Warriors is literally a non-canon what-if replacement for Awakening's story from the characters' point of view.)

To compare, let's look at Pokemon. Obviously Pokemon is a much more popular series, but that makes it a great example to explain what I mean. Imagine if Pikachu and Jigglypuff were the only characters to ever appear in the entire Smash series. That would suck, right? Pokemon fans would be annoyed that no games past Gen 1 get represented. It's the same issue with Fire Emblem. It's why you'll still occasionally see requests for Hector or Lyn, as the game they are from specifically hasn't been represented in Smash (outside of an assist trophy) at all.

In comparison to both Fire Emblem and Pokemon, Donkey Kong doesn't have a lot of different generations that each have their own specific fanbase and thus needs to be represented with a playable character to please fans of the specific era. The only character you can really argue that for is K. Rool, as he was only in the older games. But Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong are in every DKC game, so they easily represent the entire series.

So if we look at it that way, this is where we're currently at with Fire Emblem representation (excluding echo fighters):

Marth (NES / SNES era)
Roy (GBA era)
Ike (late GameCube / early Wii era)
Robin (3DS era)
Corrin (3DS era)

To be completely honest, with the exception of Corrin, the Fire Emblem representation in Smash has done as good of a job as possible representing the different eras of the series over the years. Some specific games like Genealogy of the Holy War and The Binding Blade (the first game to ever get released outside of Japan and was a prequel to Roy's game) lack any representation, but at least the era those games come from are represented in some form. In my opinion, Corrin is over representing the 3DS era, and I feel like there should have been a wait for a Three Houses rep instead as future DLC, as that's most definitely a new era for the series. (This is excluding echo fighters. If Sakurai isn't counting them in the official roster count, then neither am I, even though I've been wanting Chrom ever since Smash 4 was announced and was silly enough to think Ike getting confirmed as a veteran somehow deconfirmed him back then.)

There's just a lot to the series, and it keeps getting more with each new game with their own specific fans. With Donkey Kong, once you add K. Rool, Dixie (probably as an echo), Cranky, and potentially someone from 64, you've literally represented the entire series, and fans of one of the characters will most likely be fans of the others as well because the setting, world, and characters don't radically change with each entry.

I am a huge WarioWare fan who is desperate for more actual character representation besides just Wario. (Ashley was my most wanted character for Ultimate.) But I'm not about to sit here and pretend Chrom (an echo fighter who was a character that Awakening fans wanted before they got bamboozled with Robin) or even K. Rool (a highly requested character who was most likely going to get in this time regardless because of the ballot) somehow took that away from me.

I normally write these kinds of things out but never send them because I realize how pointless it is in the end... But I got way too into this and spent way too long writing this when I have work tomorrow and all I wanted to do was check Smashboards and watch one episode of a show before going to bed. So, just this once, I'm going to actually post my thoughts for strangers on the internet. Scary. I know I'm going to regret this...

This. So much this, but I'll add my two cents as well.

I think it can be a bit hypocritical of the western fanbase to clamor for say, Metroid and Banjo Kazooie stuff while cutting down FE when up until Awakening happened FE was very much the Metroid of Japan. A beloved franchise more so known for it's prestige than for lighting up the sales charts. Much like how Metroid created the Metroidvania genre, there was no Turn-Based Tactical RPG genre before FE. Just through weight of that alone it carried the franchise all throughout its sales drought that started from the Tellius series all the way to Awakening. To me whenever someone says "X franchise deserved more reps than FE!" all I'm really hearing is "I don't have nostalgia for this franchise and therefore it's not as important despite all evidence to the contrary."

I know people are gonna say that FE has excessive representation and I agree somewhat, but only to a certain point. OdentninAges already pointed out the issue of FE's rotating cast across multiple console generations but I would like to add on that. Fire Emblem is a franchise depends mostly on its characters and gameplay to make for a memorable experience, as opposed to atmosphere and setting. The vast majority of theses games come with very mediocre world building, with only the Tellius and the Judgral games having good world building, but even these games don't really have any memorable places that are as much a character as, well, the actual characters. Zelda and especially Metroid is Zelda and Metroid for the exploration, not the NPCs, Mario platformers are famous for the wacky incredible worlds you adventure through, not its plot. I feel these sorts of series don't necessarily benefit from large character reps like FE does simply because characters are not everything in those games in the way that FE games are.

And that's ignoring that of the 7 FE reps, 2 of them are echo fighters (i.e, didn't take any time or resources away from other fighter development) and the remaining five offer vastly different styles of play despite all using swords. Marth is an agile spacer, Roy is a rusher, Ike is a Mighty Glacier, Robin uses magic and is very projectile heavy, and Corrin has draconic and water based attacks with a completely different moveset from any of the others. People act like having the same weapon makes them exactly alike but they won't complain about the amount of martial artists in the cast. It's like saying Mario and Ryu are the same because both use punches and kicks and can shoot a fireball.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

The point is why doesn't Sakurai put as much effort in other series as he does for fire emblem.

But anyways, maybe that would be better to talk about on Edelgard's thread or something.

 

[King of Ooo]

We should not give up lets make history and make Ashley the first character to go from AT to a playable character in the same game.

The point is why doesn't Sakurai put as much effort in other series as he does for fire emblem.

But anyways, maybe that would be better to talk about on Edelgard's thread or something.

We have like 4 Marths now .

 

[Polan]

What is the thought process for fire emblem having more than double the reps that DK has being ok? When I think of how they come up with more from that, this is how I imagine it goes: “what series needs more reps? Fire Emblem? Another Marth clone? We obviously need 10 new sword users every game, and while we’re at it, lets deconfirm more than half the characters who are ten times more popular. Yeah that’ll work.” Yup. That’s pretty much how I envision it happens. Seriously though, imo the only characters on smash’s roster that are unique are the ones without swords. And this is coming from a guy who mains toon link in smash 4.

sure go ahead and bash the characters that people asked for. that is totally going to earn you the support of the smash community.

 

[meleebrawler]

Fire Emblem may get a lot of characters, but it suffers in stage representation. Only Ferox is specific to a game, the others are just generic locales.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Regardless of your feelings about Fire Emblem representation, it doesn't have much relevance to Ashley or her chances, so we should probably let this one go. Antagonizing other fanbases won't accomplish anything. We've generally been known as a friendly thread in the past, so let's not go and do anything to tarnish that reputation. If people feel strongly enough about it, take the conversation to a General thread, a Fire Emblem thread, a controversial opinions thread... I don't really care, just not the Ashley thread.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Chrom was a really popular pick, given how he was snubbed for 4. Sakurai said that on the Direct and everything.

But sure, I guess Link, Marth and Meta Knight aren’t unique, they all play the same.

I just wanna know why people complained about clones during the entirety of smash 4’s life cycle and just want more clones when fire emblem has so much more to offer than just generic main character who plays the same as Marth. I want fire emblem to get a lance rep or an axe rep. Imo they are way cooler most of the time anyway, and I actually played the blazing blade and a bit of the sacred stones. So yeah, I can see why people would have some nostalgia, the series is full of good turn based strategy games. In fact like some would say, Hector would be a great start to non-swordsman Fire Emblem characters.

Anyway, back on topic. I’m pretty sure that if we got only 10 DLC characters, Ashley would be up there with big ones like Springman and Rex/Pyra because she is probably going to be the next K. Rool in terms of popularity by the time December rolls around and we know who made the cut. My reasoning for this is that all we really need for her to be on top is for Geno and Bandana Dee to hit the base roster, as well as maybe Isaac. If all three get in the base roster, then Ashley’s chances go up significantly, because she would be the next most popular thing at the point of release judging by how quickly she’s been moving up, and how we got K. Rool and Ridley, which already gets her biggest competition out of the way.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About Fire Emblem, the problem doesn't really lies in the playable characters (4 movesets is ok, 3 clones of Marth definitely are bonuses) but the lack of Assist Trophies for me.

We do have Lyn (another sword user), but they could bring others classes, such as a Pegasus rider for example. At least FE do get an item this time... Even if it's a sword.

There's also the problem of having main characters with swords, mostly (and others such as Hector didn't had the good timing for Smash). At least Robin and Corrin bring some diversity.

 

[nintenplayer]

Got me curious;
We all know Bayo was added for European fans, and Ridley for American fans. And many of us thought that to please the Japanese fans, they'd add in Ashley.
Well, since that wasn't the case, who do you guys think they'll add to appeal to the Japan audience?
Or was K. Rool supposed to be the one for that? He was indeed heavily requested in Japan according to the SG polls....

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Got me curious;
We all know Bayo was added for European fans, and Ridley for American fans. And many of us thought that to please the Japanese fans, they'd add in Ashley.
Well, since that wasn't the case, who do you guys think they'll add to appeal to the Japan audience?
Or was K. Rool supposed to be the one for that? He was indeed heavily requested in Japan according to the SG polls....

Bandana Dee. K. Rool was the most wanted worldwide, so I doubt he is the one they would’ve used for Japanese exclusive audiences.

 

[Folt]

I just wanna know why people complained about clones during the entirety of smash 4’s life cycle and just want more clones when fire emblem has so much more to offer than just generic main character who plays the same as Marth. I want fire emblem to get a lance rep or an axe rep. Imo they are way cooler most of the time anyway, and I actually played the blazing blade and a bit of the sacred stones. So yeah, I can see why people would have some nostalgia, the series is full of good turn based strategy games. In fact like some would say, Hector would be a great start to non-swordsman Fire Emblem characters.

Note: None of the FE characters besides Lucina plays like Marth, and in Lucina's case, this is deliberate due to her fighter concept.

Also, there's no real need for "characters that use this weapon over that weapon" for Smash because any weapon in smash differentiates themselves mainly in that they give the character a varying length of disjointed hitbox size. Furthermore, the disjointed nature of Fire Emblem games in general (in that it's mostly a new cast of characters for a given setting) means the only ones who have a chance is the game's protagonists and maybe Anna and Tiki.

Even better, it seems newer FE games are deliberately introducing protagonists who can use more than one weapon at base after Robin got into Smash which could indicate more mixed weapon movesets in the future (as indicated with our latest unique FE fighter Corrin). Chrom and Lucina to date appear to be the last normal sword lords in an FE game to make it into Smash, and a big reason for that is because they can be Echo Fighters that are easy to create, can fill certain concepts, and would satisfy the fans' demand for them to in Smash.

 

[Axicos]

Got me curious;
We all know Bayo was added for European fans, and Ridley for American fans. And many of us thought that to please the Japanese fans, they'd add in Ashley.
Well, since that wasn't the case, who do you guys think they'll add to appeal to the Japan audience?
Or was K. Rool supposed to be the one for that? He was indeed heavily requested in Japan according to the SG polls....

Splatoon was really popular in Japan, so I'd say that Inkling was supposed to be their Ridley. Ashley does come close, though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Got me curious;
We all know Bayo was added for European fans, and Ridley for American fans. And many of us thought that to please the Japanese fans, they'd add in Ashley.
Well, since that wasn't the case, who do you guys think they'll add to appeal to the Japan audience?
Or was K. Rool supposed to be the one for that? He was indeed heavily requested in Japan according to the SG polls....

I'd say Shantae might be the one, given that she got enough clout as a niche series to actually get two Charagumin figures.

There's also Bandana Waddle Dee, since the Dees are very marketable over there.

 

[nintenplayer]

Splatoon was really popular in Japan, so I'd say that Inkling was supposed to be their Ridley. Ashley does come close, though.

Could be true, but Splatoon is relatively new, so it can't really be the "Ridley" of Japan... It wasn't something that was requested for years or sth.

Were there no other "Ridley"-like character in Japan, as in very heavily requested for a very long time? Geno maybe? Or maybe they can add in a character that isn't really requested, but will hype up the Japanese audience a lot? Like a Touhou rep? I'm getting a little ahead of myself.....

I should probably ask this in the official discussion thread, not here.

 

[Staarih]

Got me curious;
We all know Bayo was added for European fans, and Ridley for American fans. And many of us thought that to please the Japanese fans, they'd add in Ashley.
Well, since that wasn't the case, who do you guys think they'll add to appeal to the Japan audience?
Or was K. Rool supposed to be the one for that? He was indeed heavily requested in Japan according to the SG polls....

K. Rool was pretty big in Japan, yeah, and like mentioned, Splatoon is huge there as well.

But other than that, definitely Bandanna Dee. Kirby is huge out there, merch is all around in Japan and whenever I see Japanese people talk about Smash Ultimate, be it on Twitter or wherever, I see Bandanna Dee, like, all the time.

But to be honest, I don't think it's really a thing of giving each region a "favourite".

 

[Samcrumpit]

Was it the fact that every mode they revealed is promising and not SMASH TOUR DELUXE EDITION!...? Or that he finally acknowledged that K. Rool exists unlike the past ten years where he has said literally nothing about him? Yeah... that direct was full of surprises, as in “things that are exactly what we want for the first time since fountain of dreams was a thing.”

FE got really lucky. Going into Sm4sh they only had 2 reps, and their series happened to blow up in between then and Brawl, so it got another rep in Robin. Lucina was supposed to be a costume so I don't take much stock into her taking a separate slot from Marth, just like I don't for Echoes today.

Then when DLC rolled around, FE was lucky that they replaced Roy in Brawl, because that opened up the door for him to return in Sm4sh. Had they didn't, we probably would only have Roy and no Ike.

Then Fates came out at the perfect time to be advertised with DLC and no other games were really competing with it, so we ended up getting Corrin.

Side Note: If DKCR included either K. Rool or Dixie, I'm sure one of them would've gotten into Sm4sh.

 

[Tasokun]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

Good looking. I just search her name on Reddit and see what pops up and this slipped under my radar. I atleast hope she makes top 10 in that poll.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

I've done my part in representing our witch friend. I suggest you all do the same.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...nt_waluigi_in_smash_bros_ultimate_says_reggie

This link above is an old article, but it relates to a point that I have been wanting to bring up. How do we get Ashley noticed to the point where a figure like Reggie is forced to address her? But in a positive way of course, unlike the Waluigi memers. If we can get a thing like this to happen like it did with Waluigi, I'll consider her support campaign a victory! Until then though I will not relent; I came here today for ideas and to see if there's been any head way on her noble cause. I'm still wondering on how we can get several of her biggest supporters all rallied at he same time, to something, anything. I think that's the best way, I think the time should be this Wednesday maybe? A week after her reveal sounds good. Or we should wait until there's a new post by Sakurai somewhere and flood it, but with positive support like cute artwork and stuff. There has to be a sizeable amount of us all doing this at once though for this to work. Can we do it or not? are we still able to organize it at this point? Is anyone still with me here?



I wouldn't mind seeing her 3D model from Gold (the one in Pumpkin Panic) being used as the base for a new a "Smashified" version of her look though~

eh Idk about flooding sakurais twitter, there seemed to have been a interview where sakurai says twitter is now tiresome and reading it just made me feel bad.

on another note I like how the Ashley thread was speculating that her reveal trailer was gonna take place in luigi's mansion but they instead use it for simon/richter reveal trailer

 

[Cabbagehead]

eh Idk about flooding sakurais twitter, there seemed to have been a interview where sakurai says twitter is now tiresome and reading it just made me feel bad.

on another note I like how the Ashley thread was speculating that her reveal trailer was gonna take place in luigi's mansion but they instead use it for simon/richter reveal trailer

This thread also liked to speculate about a dual reveal with Simon. Looks like they accurately predicted all but one hauntingly glaring detail...

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Side Note: If DKCR included either K. Rool or Dixie, I'm sure one of them would've gotten into Sm4sh.

Hopefully Retro is working on another DK game and it’s titled Donkey Kong Country: The Kremling Komeback. This could just be wishful thinking, but with K. Rool back in glorious HD, I wouldn’t put it past them to be working on a new game that uses the Kong’s smash ultimate models as a base.

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

Just took that survey. Voted for Ashley and Shantae. Hopefully things like this will help whoever Sakurai has browsing the internet see that Ashley is getting really popular.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.
I hope this only a small sample size of people's opinions on how Assist Trophies should be approached with DLC or we're going to have a long road ahead of us to gather significant support. Apparently a lot of people (including some Ashley fans) are convinced the developers are completely unwilling to consider changing two lines of code to turn off an AT so a popular character can be made playable.