The Little Witch of Diamond City - Ashley - The Witch retreats. For now.

[DeltaSceptile]

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.
I hope this only a small sample size of people's opinions on how Assist Trophies should be approached with DLC or we're going to have a long road ahead of us to gather significant support. Apparently a lot of people (including some Ashley fans) are convinced the developers are completely unwilling to consider changing two lines of code to turn off an AT so a popular character can be made playable.

This is why no one who is a fan of any character likes reddit or gamefaqs. All they do on those sites is tear up everyone’s dreams for absolutely no reason other than to be toxic.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

Thank you for the link. I just finished filling out my answers.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

This thread also liked to speculate about a dual reveal with Simon. Looks like they accurately predicted all but one hauntingly glaring detail...

yeah after I saw simon I was wondering if Ashley would appear

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

This is why no one who is a fan of any character likes reddit or gamefaqs. All they do on those sites is tear up everyone’s dreams for absolutely no reason other than to be toxic.

It's because Smash fans have this stupid desire to think that they "figured out" Sakurai's mindset. Anytime they see a hint of a pattern they codify it as a law of nature in their minds to help them predict who's gonna make the roster, and become unreasonably angry if you bring up the fact that Daddy Sakurai does whatever the heck he wants, with no care to these precious "rules" that fans made in their own heads.

 

[Deleted member]

It's because Smash fans have this stupid desire to think that they "figured out" Sakurai's mindset. Anytime they see a hint of a pattern they codify it as a law of nature in their minds to help them predict who's gonna make the roster, and become unreasonably angry if you bring up the fact that Daddy Sakurai does whatever the heck he wants, with no care to these precious "rules" that fans made in their own heads.

What do you mean? There's no way Ridley would ever be in Smash, remember? Sakurai said so himself! It's not like he's a human being that changes his opinion now and again. There's no way. /s/jk/lmao

That said, while it's really dumb to try to pattern his thought process as if he's some sorta premade program, it's at least very interesting to look into his mindset when planning each new game. It's always different and often really cool. Sometimes we can see it through the game, and other times we will be a little surprised.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

What do you mean? There's no way Ridley would ever be in Smash, remember? Sakurai said so himself! It's not like he's a human being that changes his opinion now and again. There's no way. /s/jk/lmao

That said, while it's really dumb to try to pattern his thought process as if he's some sorta premade program, it's at least very interesting to look into his mindset when planning each new game. It's always different and often really cool. Sometimes we can see it through the game, and other times we will be a little surprised.

Of course my friend! Half the fun of speculation (and the post-speculation) is trying to work out the logic of his picks (and I'm totally guilty of assigning patterns to Sakurai too I'm not gonna lie), but of all the reasons for his pics, the only real consistency among all of his choices that I see is "Does this character have the potential to be interesting or not, and can they be scaled to Smash fighter heights?" If it were up to fans the roster would be a boring popularity contest, with only predictable A-listers making up the entire cast. Characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Mr. G&W and Duck Hunt would never get in if fans actually got their dream rosters, which is why I'm so happy that Sakurai isn't a typical fan and is willing to piss off the community sometimes with his oddball logic.

Edit: And retro picks, never forget the power of nostalgia for these things. It's the only reason why Geno, Banjo and Issac are even a consideration at all.

 

[Samcrumpit]

An interesting thing that was posted on the discord, there's this quiz on Play Nintendo for who would want to be on your microgame development team, and I think it soft confirms that Ashley is babby tier when it comes to Warioware ages. I think it makes sense. At most she scaled to Penny, but Penny is decidedly taller than her in the Gold Cards.

https://play.nintendo.com/activities/quizzes/warioware-gold-fun-personality-quiz/

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Edit: And retro picks, never forget the power of nostalgia for these things. It's the only reason why Geno, Banjo and Issac are even a consideration at all.

With how Sakurai thinks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the retro pick went to Conker or if K. Rool is already considered the retro pick. After all, he has been dead for ten years, and twenty if you don’t count the spin-off games

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

With how Sakurai thinks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the retro pick went to Conker or if K. Rool is already considered the retro pick. After all, he has been dead for ten years, and twenty if you don’t count the spin-off games

I halfway agree with you on K. Rool, but I honestly believe he was chosen morso due to him being the iconic villain for Donkey Kong rather than being considered retro. Sure he's been out of the spotlight for quite some time, but is there any Donkey Kong villain that could be considered iconic other than him? The only other bad guys that come close are the Snowmads but they've only been in one game and haven't captured players hearts in the way the Kremlings did.

I mean, contrast K. Rool's trailer with Duck Hunt's. Duck Hunt's trailer started with them literally playing Duck Hunt, old-school graphics and all, and then being greeted by all their old-school friends in NES graphical style. K Rool's is started by showing the rest of the starter eight cast facing off against their rivals. To me that speaks volumes of what Sakurai was thinking when he added the Kremling King in.

 

[Cabbagehead]

With how Sakurai thinks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the retro pick went to Conker or if K. Rool is already considered the retro pick. After all, he has been dead for ten years, and twenty if you don’t count the spin-off games

I'm 99.9% certain that Geno will be a character in this game. If that's the case, then he'll more than likely be the closest thing to a retro rep.

 

[StormC]

"Retro" picks have never been "they're gone X many years so they're retro now." It's more about history and legacy, which is why they're all from the NES or before it. K. Rool isn't a retro pick, he's the main villain of the Donkey Kong series, and due to company politics, it's unlikely Sakurai or Smash will directly reference his absence - at best, he'll just say his presence in Smash has been wanted for a long time.

 

[Cabbagehead]

So, after playing WarioWare Gold at a pretty high frequency for the past two weeks straight, I finally unlocked Pumpkin Panic. I am excited, but I am not very good at it, haha.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Hm, here's a survey that's been making its rounds around different places:
Reddit character survey
Perhaps we should try to stay on top of most the surveys that happen, in order to ensure Ashley is always high and recognized. Hopefully we might be able to get more supporters if more people notice who she is. She can't be ignored if she's always one of the most requested.

Did my part

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.
I hope this only a small sample size of people's opinions on how Assist Trophies should be approached with DLC or we're going to have a long road ahead of us to gather significant support. Apparently a lot of people (including some Ashley fans) are convinced the developers are completely unwilling to consider changing two lines of code to turn off an AT so a popular character can be made playable.

Reddit is a hivemind and absolutely useless for discussion. Controversial ideas aren't discussed. They are downvoted into obscurity. I typically browse GFAQs and they are quite a bit more open to Assist Trophy additions. At least more so than reddit seems to be.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing I've learned is that any website(Reddit included) can have legitimate discussion. Hiveminds don't really exist either. Some people just aren't willing to act civil, regardless of what website they are at. You'll find that type of stuff anywhere, but only some sites are willing to combat that kind of behavior and have rules that directly go after it and stop trolls.

I've seen good discussion on Reddit. I've seen good discussion on GameFAQs. And so on. It's not really a hivemind issue so much as many websites don't enforce rules to prevent poor behavior. Some barely try to stop problemsome behavior and only go after stuff if they're "high enough of the bad scale". It's bad. And kind of sucks. Thankfully Smashboards isn't one of those places(not saying this as a plug, but because we do have a honestly good Moderation that actively tries to stop discourse).

 

[Samcrumpit]

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.
I hope this only a small sample size of people's opinions on how Assist Trophies should be approached with DLC or we're going to have a long road ahead of us to gather significant support. Apparently a lot of people (including some Ashley fans) are convinced the developers are completely unwilling to consider changing two lines of code to turn off an AT so a popular character can be made playable.

It baffles me how this made up rule got so much traction. I'm afraid to try to argue much against it for fear of being called delusional and making us look bad. Luckily someone did attempt to correct that person in the same thread.

 

[Euler23]

I consider Mr. Game & Watch, ROB, and the Duck Hunt dog more to be novelty characters rather than "retro" characters (ie characters that are old, or represent a specific hardware). Sakurai just wanted to have some fun, so he threw in a character from way out of left field that nobody would have ever seen coming. Jigglypuff from the N64 game would also fit into that category. King K. Rool obviously would not.

 

[TooBadWaluigiTime]

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.

I miss the days where people can mention characters like Ashley and Waluigi in a positive manner, and not get downvoted to hell and back.

 

[perfectchaos83]

One thing I've learned is that any website(Reddit included) can have legitimate discussion. Hiveminds don't really exist either. Some people just aren't willing to act civil, regardless of what website they are at. You'll find that type of stuff anywhere, but only some sites are willing to combat that kind of behavior and have rules that directly go after it and stop trolls.

I've seen good discussion on Reddit. I've seen good discussion on GameFAQs. And so on. It's not really a hivemind issue so much as many websites don't enforce rules to prevent poor behavior. Some barely try to stop problemsome behavior and only go after stuff if they're "high enough of the bad scale". It's bad. And kind of sucks. Thankfully Smashboards isn't one of those places(not saying this as a plug, but because we do have a honestly good Moderation that actively tries to stop discourse).

Maybe hivemind is not the most accurate term to use, but it's very much "Right-place-right time" since it's very easy for a comment to be buried. Reddit's got a system in place that can shut down the truth if it's a truth people don't want to hear. I've never found Reddit to be a place where discussion can really flourish since the site itself isn't designed for it. Reddit's always been a better place to get news or share something neat.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

Maybe hivemind is not the most accurate term to use, but it's very much "Right-place-right time" since it's very easy for a comment to be buried. Reddit's got a system in place that can shut down the truth if it's a truth people don't want to hear. I've never found Reddit to be a place where discussion can really flourish since the site itself isn't designed for it. Reddit's always been a better place to get news or share something neat.

From my experience you have to get in to a thread early to have any real conversations, otherwise it's as you said, it'll just get buried under the mountain of comments and other threads.

 

[perfectchaos83]

So, I was looking around for some material for the moveset I'm making and I reminded myself that Ashley had her own little mask shop in DIY. With all the Skull Kid hype going around it made me realize how awesome a joint reveal with the two really could have been amazing. Shame things couldn't work out that way.

 

[King of Ooo]

I miss the days where people can mention characters like Ashley and Waluigi in a positive manner, and not get downvoted to hell and back.

thanks to 4chan

 

[Axicos]

Yikes, the most upvoted comment under that survey is that Ashley ought to be removed from the survey because she got disconfirmed, and a response saying she could still make it in as DLC got downvoted to eternity.
I hope this only a small sample size of people's opinions on how Assist Trophies should be approached with DLC or we're going to have a long road ahead of us to gather significant support. Apparently a lot of people (including some Ashley fans) are convinced the developers are completely unwilling to consider changing two lines of code to turn off an AT so a popular character can be made playable.

They're being cautious so that they don't set themselves up for failure if Sakurai really does want to keep every AT from playable status until Smash 6. I still think she has a shot, but I don't honestly believe she'll get in unless she or someone else proves that Sakurai is willing to do that. It's up to him if we are able to get Ashley or any of the disconfirmed ATs in.

 

[Samcrumpit]

I'm fine with people being cautious, but people who say it like it's a certainty that assists have bo chance are the reason why people were hesitant to write down an assist's name on a ballot. Hopefully this mentality changes now that Reddit's favorites, Bomberman and Shovel Knight, are assist trophies.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I'm fine with people being cautious, but people who say it like it's a certainty that assists have bo chance are the reason why people were hesitant to write down an assist's name on a ballot. Hopefully this mentality changes now that Reddit's favorites, Bomberman and Shovel Knight, are assist trophies.

You'd think that people like that whose most-wanted's are third-party/indie characters that have been delegated to AT would rally behind the cause of promoting Assist Trophies to playable via DLC, as they have even more to gain than we do. As far as our cause goes, Ashley is arguably a shoo-in for Smash 6; we just want to see Christmas come early. Characters like Bomberman and Shovel Knight are more "now or never" picks. We don't know where Konami or Yacht Club Games will be in a decade's time, but we know that the first-party WarioWare series will keep on trucking (and who knows? Maybe Ashley will finally get that spin-off in that time!)

Well, that's all the time I have. I've gotta get back to playing as my Ashley Mii Fighter on Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Wii U.

 

[Solmatter]

Visiting from the Geno thread, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for you guys. As someone who supports a character that people call a "literal who", "undeserving", "never gonna happen", etc... I truly don't understand the hate. Ashley's a neat character, and even though she wasn't on my top 5, she was probably on my top 10. Stay strong!

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

Visiting from the Geno thread, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for you guys. As someone who supports a character that people call a "literal who", "undeserving", "never gonna happen", etc... I truly don't understand the hate. Ashley's a neat character, and even though she wasn't on my top 5, she was probably on my top 10. Stay strong!

We appreciate it dude. Admittedly, I have no idea who Geno is myself, but I just got an SNES Classic and started playing Seven Stars to find out. Going in blind and just finished talking to Frogfucious so I still haven't met him yet, but I'm excited to see what got people so excited to see him in Smash for a over a decade. Soon enough you might just see me on that support board too!

 

[Cabbagehead]

Visiting from the Geno thread, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for you guys. As someone who supports a character that people call a "literal who", "undeserving", "never gonna happen", etc... I truly don't understand the hate. Ashley's a neat character, and even though she wasn't on my top 5, she was probably on my top 10. Stay strong!

Thanks for the support! Here's to the idea that at least one of our favorite characters gets in the base roster (and, to be frank, I will be legitimately surprised if Geno isn't in, at this point)!

We're still hoping for the possibility that a few Assist Trophies are promoted via DLC. It's never been done before, but there's a first time for everything, haha.

 

[NintenZ]

Okay guys, no pressure, but now is definitely a good time to make the Twitter account, things have mostly cooled down now so the timing is great.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

Okay guys, no pressure, but now is definitely a good time to make the Twitter account, things have mostly cooled down now so the timing is great.

Well then. I am willing to contribute in whatever way I can. I expect a lot of haters to pop up, but if we persist, they are the ones that will end up looking bad.

 

[Euler23]

You'd think that people like that whose most-wanted's are third-party/indie characters that have been delegated to AT would rally behind the cause of promoting Assist Trophies to playable via DLC, as they have even more to gain than we do. As far as our cause goes, Ashley is arguably a shoo-in for Smash 6; we just want to see Christmas come early. Characters like Bomberman and Shovel Knight are more "now or never" picks. We don't know where Konami or Yacht Club Games will be in a decade's time, but we know that the first-party WarioWare series will keep on trucking (and who knows? Maybe Ashley will finally get that spin-off in that time!)

Well, that's all the time I have. I've gotta get back to playing as my Ashley Mii Fighter on Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Wii U.

Sadly, I think Ashley’s chances of becoming playable are much worse for Smash 6 than they were for Smash Ultimate. I was very optimistic about her chances this time (nobody is a shoo-in anymore, but I thought she was one of the most likely contenders and very underrated by the conventional wisdom). But it’s quite likely she becomes less popular and less relevant by then. We also don’t know when or even if Smash 6 will come out.

The ideal timeline would have looked like this:

1. Ashley is revealed for Smash Ultimate and used to cross-promote Warioware Gold (along with the Amiibo of course).

2. Warioware Gold sells very well thanks to this marketing campaign, despite being on a console that’s essentially obsolete.

3. Nintendo becomes convinced to keep making Wario games, including a Switch instalment and maybe a platformer or two.

Unfortunately, this timeline looks more realistic:

1. Ashley is not playable in Smash Ultimate.

2. Warioware Gold sells poorly largely due to being on an essentially obsolete console and a lack of good marketing.

3. Warioware goes the way of F Zero and Ashley is forever confined to obscurity.

This latter timeline is far from guaranteed, but it is on the table. On the other hand DLC is a strong possibility. Sakurai said his first priority this time was to make sure all of the veterans came back, and that there’s a much higher emphasis on what fans want. In this case, we need two things to happen:

1. Smash Ultimate needs to have DLC. This is very likely, assuming Nintendo likes money. Splatoon 2 keeps getting DLC, and Nintendo will need people to stay interested in its multiplayer games if their subscription service is to have any chance of success. A steady stream of new content is essential for doing this.

2. Assist Trophies need to be eligible for DLC. Pretty much any sign here will do. Sakurai just needs to say something along the lines of “anything’s possible”, “everyone is eligible”, etc. Or better yet actually reveal an Assist Trophy as a DLC fighter, even if it’s someone stupid (not naming any names).

If we grant 1 and 2 for the sake of the argument, Ashley’s chances suddenly look pretty good. Smash 4 had 7 fighters developed after the game came out. Three of them were veterans. Also, Smash Ultimate is coming out earlier in the Switch’s lifespan (which will likely be longer than the Wii U’s) meaning that the time until Smash 6 development starts (if there is a Smash 6 and if the Switch does get a successor - two open questions) is longer. That means there might be even more DLC, perhaps at least ten newcomers. Even more if they decide to keep expanding Smash Ultimate indefinitely rather than making a new Smash.

So if everything lines up, Ashley would need to be among the top ten most wanted newcomers (including assist trophies that have already been revealed, but hopefully excluding non-video game characters like Goku, Shrek, and Jeb Bush’s dad) to have a good chance at becoming DLC. I think she has a good shot of getting there. The more fighters that get revealed and removed from contention, the better.

Another possibility: a character with a similar size, shape, and move set to Ashley is revealed and she becomes an echo fighter.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

Sadly, I think Ashley’s chances of becoming playable are much worse for Smash 6 than they were for Smash Ultimate. I was very optimistic about her chances this time (nobody is a shoo-in anymore, but I thought she was one of the most likely contenders and very underrated by the conventional wisdom). But it’s quite likely she becomes less popular and less relevant by then. We also don’t know when or even if Smash 6 will come out.

The ideal timeline would have looked like this:

1. Ashley is revealed for Smash Ultimate and used to cross-promote Warioware Gold (along with the Amiibo of course).

2. Warioware Gold sells very well thanks to this marketing campaign, despite being on a console that’s essentially obsolete.

3. Nintendo becomes convinced to keep making Wario games, including a Switch instalment and maybe a platformer or two.

Unfortunately, this timeline looks more realistic:

1. Ashley is not playable in Smash Ultimate.

2. Warioware Gold sells poorly largely due to being on an essentially obsolete console and a lack of good marketing.

3. Warioware goes the way of F Zero and Ashley is forever confined to obscurity.

This latter timeline is far from guaranteed, but it is on the table. On the other hand DLC is a strong possibility. Sakurai said his first priority this time was to make sure all of the veterans came back, and that there’s a much higher emphasis on what fans want. In this case, we need two things to happen:

1. Smash Ultimate needs to have DLC. This is very likely, assuming Nintendo likes money. Splatoon 2 keeps getting DLC, and Nintendo will need people to stay interested in its multiplayer games if their subscription service is to have any chance of success. A steady stream of new content is essential for doing this.

2. Assist Trophies need to be eligible for DLC. Pretty much any sign here will do. Sakurai just needs to say something along the lines of “anything’s possible”, “everyone is eligible”, etc. Or better yet actually reveal an Assist Trophy as a DLC fighter, even if it’s someone stupid (not naming any names).

If we grant 1 and 2 for the sake of the argument, Ashley’s chances suddenly look pretty good. Smash 4 had 7 fighters developed after the game came out. Three of them were veterans. Also, Smash Ultimate is coming out earlier in the Switch’s lifespan (which will likely be longer than the Wii U’s) meaning that the time until Smash 6 development starts (if there is a Smash 6 and if the Switch does get a successor - two open questions) is longer. That means there might be even more DLC, perhaps at least ten newcomers. Even more if they decide to keep expanding Smash Ultimate indefinitely rather than making a new Smash.

So if everything lines up, Ashley would need to be among the top ten most wanted newcomers (including assist trophies that have already been revealed, but hopefully excluding non-video game characters like Goku, Shrek, and Jeb Bush’s dad) to have a good chance at becoming DLC. I think she has a good shot of getting there. The more fighters that get revealed and removed from contention, the better.

Another possibility: a character with a similar size, shape, and move set to Ashley is revealed and she becomes an echo fighter.

Agreed, this really would have been a splendid time for Ashley, the stars where truly aligned for her, but just didn't happen. I know we all know this already and probably I should let it go, but seriously, what a waste. I wonder if Sakurai will one day look back at this and realize the potential he wasted.

But anyways, that's that.

The point is to not give up the support now. No matter how naysayers say she won't ever be DLC, that's not the point, the point is that we want her, not that we expect her.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

So I thought about who can potentially make the AT jump in dlc, and compiled a list of the best options:
- Waluigi
- Knuckles
- Ashley
- Shovel Knight
- Zero
- Krystal
- Takamaru
If they are confirmed to return:
- Skull Kid
- Shadow
- Isabelle
- Kat & Ana
- Isaac
Even though the list is pretty long, we have to take into consideration that we haven’t seen the full base roster yet, so this list could be shorter by launch. That, and Ashley is one of the most popular on the list that has already been confirmed, so I can see her taking precedence over most (If not all) of the others.

 

[pik3rob]

Warioware Gold sells poorly largely due to being on an essentially obsolete console and a lack of good marketing.

tbh the Warioware Gold marketing was pretty on point. They didn't push it super hard where it was everywhere, but during the weeks leading up to it's release, they did a good job of keeping the game in the public eye. Though I'm an Ashley supporter, thus I was keeping tabs on the game, so I'm not exactly the most reliable. But stuff like having Wario take over the Nintendo twitter were bits of marketing genius.

Sakurai just needs to say something along the lines of “anything’s possible”, “everyone is eligible”

You don't realize the **** storm of horrible requests this will cause. I think in the event that he starts DLC, and a second Smash ballot is a part of it, he needs to clarify very extensively what characters qualify. If one small thing can be misinterpreted, then people will make a bunch of very out there requests.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, if a second ballot happen, Sakurai must clarify if Assist trophies are eligible or not. I think mostly for the Waluigi outcry. Although if AT are not eligible, we would probably get a new wave of "Nintendo don't listen to fans" and such.

Anyway, I'm progressing in Warioware Gold and dang, everyone is adorable in this game. Also, Kat & Ana non stop mode is so fun.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

tbh the Warioware Gold marketing was pretty on point. They didn't push it super hard where it was everywhere, but during the weeks leading up to it's release, they did a good job of keeping the game in the public eye. Though I'm an Ashley supporter, thus I was keeping tabs on the game, so I'm not exactly the most reliable. But stuff like having Wario take over the Nintendo twitter were bits of marketing genius.

You don't realize the **** storm of horrible requests this will cause. I think in the event that he starts DLC, and a second Smash ballot is a part of it, he needs to clarify very extensively what characters qualify. If one small thing can be misinterpreted, then people will make a bunch of very out there requests.

Yeah, I'm viewing WarioWare Gold as far more comparable to Fire Emblem: Shadows of Valentia in terms of sales and marketing than anything else. A smaller, lower budget game made to squeeze out the last bit of profit from the 3DS than some big budget "if it doesn't do well than this franchise is dead forever" sort of deal. From word of mouth I heard that most stores don't have a ton of copies in stock, which makes sense to me as Nintendo's recognition of it's niche status. A modest investment for a modest gain. I think that WarioWare is still in the green for the foreseeable future.

And yeah, a second Smash ballet is gonna be a huge mess to be sure, but we have to keep trying if we want any hope of pulling through.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Hello, guys! Been absent from the thread since before the Direct.

My internet went down for a few days (a truck ripped our wires off our house -.-) right when the Direct was coming out (great timing, right?) and so I ended up falling far behind in this thread. I had to spend a few days catching up (reading something like 30-40 pages, woo!) and of course, I had to abstain a bit at first because... well, our girl got deconfirmed and that stung. Even though she was my 3rd most wanted, my heart was still racing during the AT portion of the Direct and it was still a gut punch to see Ashley tacked on to the end. I couldn't bring myself to see others in this thread, where she was their most wanted and were more optimistic than me... and their reaction.

That said, my condolences guys. =/

Admittedly, I did always have a nagging negativism in the back of my head in regards to her odds because so far as I know her popularity was not as high during the Sm4sh era as it clearly was this time around for Ultimate and all the evidence that pointed towards her popularity had Ko Takeuchi's name on everything. And by my estimation, she's currently breaking out but hasn't made the full leap as a breakout character. I would say that a high priority goal to shoot for would be to get her into the Mario spin-off titles, especially Mario Kart (as it's the largest spin-off).

That pessimism aside though, Ashley's star is rising. When the ground is fertile like this, you don't walk away from it. You plant seeds and you cultivate. What we have here is very tangible and very valuable, a wellspring of solid support with a large voice. Take it from a Geno supporter that's been in this game for over a decade now, your support matters. Ashley even has great advantages over Geno too: 1) First Party, 2) Relevant, 3) Rising Star and Popular, etc. etc. I know it's Geno's star that's finally glowing this time around but by no means does that mean Ashley's star should fade away in lieu of this game.

So obviously, keep making your voice heard and remain positive. Your enthusiasm and your support, even if it only lasts for this cycle, can have an impact on future support down the line and can keep the momentum for her inclusion going far into the future (if you're so inclined). So keep rallying!~

I guarantee it'll materialize in some form as long as you make your voice heard.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Eh, I'm gonna have to disagree with you, for a few reasons.

Sadly, I think Ashley’s chances of becoming playable are much worse for Smash 6 than they were for Smash Ultimate. I was very optimistic about her chances this time (nobody is a shoo-in anymore, but I thought she was one of the most likely contenders and very underrated by the conventional wisdom). But it’s quite likely she becomes less popular and less relevant by then. We also don’t know when or even if Smash 6 will come out.

Why is it likely that she becomes less popular? Despite two relatively lackluster releases between Brawl and Smash 4, Nintendo of Japan suddenly deemed her a marketable character around 2015. While we on this board chalked that up to a good thing, we didn't take into consideration how that wave of marketability may have come a little too late, relative to Sakurai's development plans. Even now, if you read through some of the blurbs in WarioWare Gold, Ashley is obviously still a popular character. It's just a matter of seeing what Nintendo decides to do with her next.

As far as Smash Ultimate goes, the newcomers are all in one of three categories:

1) Popular picks from throughout the years - these are your Ridleys, your K. Rools, your Simon Belmonts, stuff like that. The characters who have been at the epicenter of Smash speculation for at least a decade or two. There aren't too many of these simply because of the time crunch.

2) Relatively popular characters who would make for great Echoes - Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, (probably) Shadow, (probably) Isabelle, (probably) Dixie Kong, etc. They take minimal development time, and make a lot of people happy. It's a win/win.

3) Inkling - Despite being a new character, their franchise quickly became one of Nintendo's core IPs. You don't make a new Smash and not put in the Inklings. (It doesn't hurt that they were probably fresh [no pun intended] on everyone's mind during the Ballot).

This is what I attribute to her not getting in: despite her increasing marketability, her popularity (up until mid-June, evidently) wasn't as incredible as King K. Rool's, and she's too unique to be an Echo like Chrom. While a normal Smash development cycle would probably grant her more favor, a cycle where the emphasis has been on bringing every veteran back plus a few titanic newcomers was just too competitive. But that shouldn't speak ill of Smash 6, or even Ultimate DLC.

As a beside, there's no way Smash 6 isn't happening. Even if Sakurai decides to retire as Smash Director, Nintendo will make sure that he bestows his blessing upon a new director. Remember, Smash is a AAA console-selling titan of a franchise. It's not an artisan indie graphic novel that can't make a sequel because the creator doesn't want to compromise aspects of the story, it's a series that Nintendo, as a business, wants to keep afloat due to the money it pulls in.

Unfortunately, this timeline looks more realistic:

1. Ashley is not playable in Smash Ultimate.

2. Warioware Gold sells poorly largely due to being on an essentially obsolete console and a lack of good marketing.

3. Warioware goes the way of F Zero and Ashley is forever confined to obscurity.

I don't see the logical correlation between Step 1 and Step 2. WarioWare Gold, despite being out for less than a month on a dying console, seems to be doing alright. The series itself, despite being niche, seems to have a few "million-plus" installments under its belt, and Gold is a return to form, plus some. Not to mention, outside sources such as YouTubers and game journalists seem to be eating the game up. And if you're only concerned about marketing in so far as having a character in Smash, then don't worry: Wario is still a playable character.

Also, I wouldn't use F-Zero as an example, considering it is the complete inverse of what you are predicting for WW; where you seem to think WarioWare will sink due to a lack of a second representative, F-Zero sank IN SPITE of having a playable rep in every Smash game.

In this case, we need two things to happen:

1. Smash Ultimate needs to have DLC. This is very likely, assuming Nintendo likes money. Splatoon 2 keeps getting DLC, and Nintendo will need people to stay interested in its multiplayer games if their subscription service is to have any chance of success. A steady stream of new content is essential for doing this.

2. Assist Trophies need to be eligible for DLC. Pretty much any sign here will do. Sakurai just needs to say something along the lines of “anything’s possible”, “everyone is eligible”, etc. Or better yet actually reveal an Assist Trophy as a DLC fighter, even if it’s someone stupid (not naming any names).

If we grant 1 and 2 for the sake of the argument, Ashley’s chances suddenly look pretty good. Smash 4 had 7 fighters developed after the game came out. Three of them were veterans. Also, Smash Ultimate is coming out earlier in the Switch’s lifespan (which will likely be longer than the Wii U’s) meaning that the time until Smash 6 development starts (if there is a Smash 6 and if the Switch does get a successor - two open questions) is longer. That means there might be even more DLC, perhaps at least ten newcomers. Even more if they decide to keep expanding Smash Ultimate indefinitely rather than making a new Smash.

So if everything lines up, Ashley would need to be among the top ten most wanted newcomers (including assist trophies that have already been revealed, but hopefully excluding non-video game characters like Goku, Shrek, and Jeb Bush’s dad) to have a good chance at becoming DLC. I think she has a good shot of getting there. The more fighters that get revealed and removed from contention, the better.

Another possibility: a character with a similar size, shape, and move set to Ashley is revealed and she becomes an echo fighter.

That's what we're rallying behind: playable Ashley DLC in spite of her Assist Trophy. Sakurai doesn't need to say anything because, as was mentioned above, people will come out of the woodwork to give Ashley a run for her money. As it stands, a lot of other AT fandoms appear to be accepting defeat, where Ashley fans have taken to continuing support in hopes of getting DLC. Sakurai obviously knows about Ashley's growing popularity, which is presumably why he pulled the plug during the Smash Direct and showed her as an AT. This is a good first step for us. We just need to keep it up.

And I agree about the DLC thing. Not only is Smash coming out early on in the the Switch's lifespan, but it will inevitably sell better than Smash 4, on a console that has already outsold the Wii U. Without a doubt, if DLC happens, it will be more expansive.

I still think you're downplaying Ashley's odds, though. Sure, there are the goofballs who suggest Shrek, but as far as Nintendo characters go, who else is left, as far as actual marketable/popular/unique characters go? I would argue that pretty much any super Nintendo All-Star is already in the game, so now is the perfect opportunity for those smaller-scale superstars (like Ashley) to shine, assuming Sakurai is willing to promote Assist Trophies. Assuming the fan-rule of "Assist Trophies can't be playable" isn't actually a thing, and third-parties aren't as involved as they were during Smash 4's DLC, I think Ashley automatically floats to the top. She's popular, she has the capacity for a unique moveset, and she has an interesting personality that would also meld well with the rest of the cast. That is literally everything Sakurai looks for in a character.

As far as an Echo goes, I'd be down, because I still get my Ashley amiibo and whatnot, but I'll be darned if I can think of a character she'd be an Echo of.

Glad to see you're back, Jazzy Jinx ! We all seem to be in good spirits, working to maintain support and hoping for a DLC reveal. Even if that doesn't happen, at least in my opinion, Ashley isn't a matter of "if", but of "when".

 

[DeltaSceptile]

After the next smash direct in October/November, I can only see Ashley’s competition getting even bigger, due to more heavy deconfirmations.

 

[Cabbagehead]

After the next smash direct in October/November, I can only see Ashley’s competition getting even bigger, due to more heavy deconfirmations.

Well, if we maintain/grow a vocal fanbase for Ashley, then we have nothing to worry about. I mean, looking at the list of Assist Trophies on the website, there's only a few who I think could give Ashley some trouble.

I mean, just think about it: Ashley is already a "rising star" character who is *that* close to becoming a breakout character. When her Assist Trophy was MIA, her popularity ascended to the point that Sakurai felt the need to reveal her just to stoke the flames. Sure, perhaps he washed his hands of the situation and never looked back, but perhaps he can be swayed to our side. For all we know - and this is a wildly optimistic "tin foil hat" moment - Sakurai saw Ashley's support and was taken aback by it, but it was already too late (what with the 2015 development plan, and all). Instead, he quickly tossed out Ashley's AT in the base game, but her support was strong enough to where he is considering Ashley for DLC. Heck, the man has shown concern for future Smash installments because of how packed to the brim with fanservice this one is supposed to be. With a promise like that, you might as well go big, or go home, haha.

 

[FooltheFlames]

As some of you here already know, there was some ugly Ashley hate art going around for a while. But this picture here I don't consider to be a part of that category- I actually like it! I like it because unlike all those other horrible pictures of Ashley crying and stuff, this one actually keeps her in character! I could totally see this being her reaction; I mean, she gives poor Red this same look all the time!
Thanks to the artist for making me laugh in spite of such a seemingly distraught situation~