The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

[RandomAce]

What are the chances that, with the gen 8 pokemon character, we get music from Ultra Sun/Moon & Let's Go?

There have been dlc characters that pull from more than 1 game (though it's been the new series only).

New USUM music means no Lycanroc...

For real, I could see one song like Ultra Necromza’s theme showing up, but that’s about it. Byleth only brought Three Houses music with their Fighter Pass, so the same could hold true for Gen 8.

 

[fogbadge]

What are the chances that, with the gen 8 pokemon character, we get music from Ultra Sun/Moon & Let's Go?

There have been dlc characters that pull from more than 1 game (though it's been the new series only).

I think someone at Pokemon is pushing go so I’d think the let’s go games would have a chance at music

 

[Staarih]

Seems to be the equivalent of Global Link art, does it not? Fighter Spirits of the current mons on the roster have used theirs, so I imagine that is indeed what Zacian would use.

I think this is supposedly the equivalent of the Global Link/Dream World art of Zacian, probably posted here before:

(here's a LINK if the picture doesn't work)
Either way, it's always good to have more than enough different artwork of the doggo's.

Do you think they'll announce anything more on the Isle of Armor next month or early June? Or are we getting nothing major other than a release date.

And speaking towards the potential pokemon character, when would be the best time to release it? Would it be this year or in 2021?

I think we'll definitely get at least one trailer before June regarding Isle of Armor (so, next month, as it's already behind the corner?). I feel like there's quite a lot under covers still, like the Gigantamax forms of the Kanto starters (they were shown during the Isle of Armor segment, right? So I assume they're a part of that expansion). And then maybe a final trailer in June when E3 would have taken place before it is released.

As for the potential Pokémon character, if COVID-19 keeps on chugging along, I feel like any first party characters could be pushed earlier because of easier development/negotiations, kind of what I feel might have happened with the ARMS character. Thus, if a new Pokémon character is part of the pass, we could see it sooner rather than later.
But then again, Sakurai might just stick with whatever plan and schedule he has and just accept the delays.

What are the chances that, with the gen 8 pokemon character, we get music from Ultra Sun/Moon & Let's Go?

It's possible, though the main focus will certainly be Gen 8 music much like with Byleth & Three Houses. USUM and Let's Go do have some bops though, and I was kind of saddened to not see a new Gen 7 stage to accompany Incineroar, so I'll take any previous gen nods along with the new gen with open arms.

 

[fogbadge]

But then again, Sakurai might just stick with whatever plan and schedule he has and just accept the delays.

i would think that, i mean surely theyve already got the licences for the characters otherwise why start work on them, and then why change the order in which they are developed, especially if some of them were closer to finish than others

 

[Cosmic77]

The idea that ARMS wasn't originally the first character of the pass is a popular theory, but it doesn't make sense if you consider the timeline of events.

Corona restrictions couldn't have effected development until February at the absolute earliest, but even if we assume it happened January 1st, there's no way Sakurai would've had enough time to drop the progress on a future character, switch over to an ARMS rep, and have them ready in presumably five and a half months. That would be even faster than Mewtwo, a veteran who already had a moveset mapped out.

What are the chances that, with the gen 8 pokemon character, we get music from Ultra Sun/Moon & Let's Go?

There have been dlc characters that pull from more than 1 game (though it's been the new series only).

I don't think it's very likely. New third-party franchises are less likely to return in future installments than first-parties, so there might be more effort put into referencing multiple games and adding a variety of music. First-parties like FE and Pokemon are here to stay, and since both already have plenty of content in Smash, it makes more sense for them to focus on one game.

It's possible, but I wouldn't expect much. Maybe two songs at best. No Spirits.

I think this is supposedly the equivalent of the Global Link/Dream World art of Zacian, probably posted here before:

(here's a LINK if the picture doesn't work)
Either way, it's always good to have more than enough different artwork of the doggo's.

I've seen that pic before, but it's rarely used. Since this isn't the pic they use for the plushies, I'm wondering if they made two Dream versions of Zacian and Zamazenta. One in a relaxed pose and one in an action pose.

Only reason I keep bringing up the plushies is because most of the Pokemon Spirits are exactly the same as the one on their plush.

Spoiler

 

[fogbadge]

The idea that ARMS wasn't originally the first character of the pass is a popular theory, but it doesn't make sense if you consider the timeline of events.

Corona restrictions couldn't have effected development until February at the absolute earliest, but even if we assume it happened January 1st, there's no way Sakurai would've had enough time to drop the progress on a future character, switch over to an ARMS rep, and have them ready in presumably five and a half months. That would be even faster than Mewtwo, a veteran who already had a moveset mapped out.

thats my thinking, it'll be 7 onward that are affected the most

 

[LukeRNG]

Is this the appropriate place to briefly discuss about the main, genuine complaints towards the recent pokemon games (around the time of gen 6 and onward)? Stuff like the downgrade of exploration (the linearity of the region; & the near lack of significant routes & dungeons), lack of mystery for legendaries (especially Mythicals), the handing out of legendary pokemon like candy, easy difficulty & uninteresting story (for lack of a better word).

I'm having a hard time finding a good place to discuss where people don't act all angry and be like "blank is the worst game ever", "Screw GameFreak" and even "Why bother discussing the potential of future games if they'll just s#!$ it out like always with no effort or care put into it. It'll be the same thing anyways".

 

[Pokelego999]

Is this the appropriate place to briefly discuss about the main, genuine complaints towards the recent pokemon games (around the time of gen 6 and onward)? Stuff like the downgrade of exploration (the linearity of the region; & the near lack of significant routes & dungeons), lack of mystery for legendaries (especially Mythicals), the handing out of legendary pokemon like candy, easy difficulty & uninteresting story (for lack of a better word).

I'm having a hard time finding a good place to discuss where people don't act all angry and be like "blank is the worst game ever", "Screw GameFreak" and even "Why bother discussing the potential of future games if they'll just s#!$ it out like always with no effort or care put into it. It'll be the same thing anyways".

Yeah, legendaries are earned, not given. The wild area dosen't seem a bad replacement, and I think it's meant to cover the lack of exploration.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, legendaries are earned, not given.

thats for game freak to decide

 

[LukeRNG]

Yeah, legendaries are earned, not given. The wild area dosen't seem a bad replacement, and I think it's meant to cover the lack of exploration.

It's some things i've heard that I kind of agree to an extent.
Many legendaries are very easy to catch (X & Y legendaries, Rayquaza in ORAS, Necrozma in base Sun/Moon) and aren't aywhere near as exciting as past pokemon (and then there's Mythical gifts...). But i also see people forgetting Ultra Necrozma, Deoxys, Primal Groudon/Kyogre, some of the Ultra Beasts. etc. Though i'll admit i don't like how they shove all the past legendaries into 1 game like in ORAS with Mirage Spots (which were alright) & USUM with Ultra Wormholes. Takes away from their legendary status IMO, which is why i'm hoping they make them grand and exciting in the Crown Tundra. At least a tad.

I was aware that the Wild area wasn't going to be as fleshed out as people hoped for as it was a first atempt. But it's quite jarring to have some things like take 1 step from rain to sudden snow (i know that's how it was in previous games but for a full 3d game it's very distracting). Plus the pop-in is distracting at times. And there's really nothing to explore in the Wild Area other than what's on surface: no underwater, no caves, etc.

Speaking of caves, we haven't had that many great dungeons in recent gens. They've mostly been linear routes with a few detours for items. I feel most of the Kalos Caves & the Rainbow Rocket Hideout were the last great dungeons. And people ignore those because the games they're from are "bad".

I also find funny how there's one route in Galar (don't remember which one) that takes about 8-9 seconds to traverse. Maybe even less.

I'd be lying if i said I didn't wish for more substance in the exploration. Fingers crossed for the Crown Tundra.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even with my bias, I think Zacian and Zamazenta were handled better than any other previous boxart Legendaries.

• Both Legendaries are included in the story, regardless of which version you buy. That's only been done one other time.
• They're not randomly thrown in at the end; there's proper buildup. You meet them very early in the game, and both the player and Sonia learn more about the two Legendaries between almost every gym battle.
• The way they're handled is unique. While they technically intervene to stop something caused by Rose, the predictable tradition of the boxart Legendaries being sought after by the region's evil team was broken. Even if the "heroes who save the day" trope is overused, it was a first for boxart Legendaries.
• Their theme goes beyond their appearance. What they represent (sword/offense and shield/defense) is illustrated wonderfully in battle by their stats and special abilities. The themes of other Legendary duos haven't been as obvious (time and space, life and death, sun and moon, etc.)

The Legendaries are one thing I feel like people should give more credit to the SwSh development team for. They're not perfect, but I'd love for future Legendaries to follow their example. Sadly, a lot of people don't see this, and the only things they can point out are either (1) the designs look stupid, or (2) they're too similar and need to look more different (which is a complaint I don't really understand considering how these two have a lot in common with Reshiram and Zekrom, and no one seems to take issue with two dragons sharing a similar design).

 

[LukeRNG]

Even with my bias, I think Zacian and Zamazenta were handled better than any other previous boxart Legendaries.

• Both Legendaries are included in the story, regardless of which version you buy. That's only been done one other time.
• They're not randomly thrown in at the end; there's proper buildup. You meet them very early in the game, and both the player and Sonia learn more about the two Legendaries between almost every gym battle.
• The way they're handled is unique. While they technically intervene to stop something caused by Rose, the predictable tradition of the boxart Legendaries being sought after by the region's evil team was broken. Even if the "heroes who save the day" trope is overused, it was a first for boxart Legendaries.
• Their theme goes beyond their appearance. What they represent (sword/offense and shield/defense) is illustrated wonderfully in battle by their stats and special abilities. The themes of other Legendary duos haven't been as obvious (time and space, life and death, sun and moon, etc.)

The Legendaries are one thing I feel like people should give more credit to the SwSh development team for. They're not perfect, but I'd love for future Legendaries to follow their example. Sadly, a lot of people don't see this, and the only things they can point out are either (1) the designs look stupid, or (2) they're too similar and need to look more different (which is a complaint I don't really understand considering how these two have a lot in common with Reshiram and Zekrom, and no one seems to take issue with two dragons sharing a similar design).

People are more concerned about both "National Dex" & in turn the "false promises" about animations & graphics. And i agree on your stance of SwSh being underappreciated for the things it added that were heavily requested:
-A Dark Type Gym.
-Evolutions of old Pokemon,
-Regional Variants of pokemon from gens other than gen 1.
-An open world area.
-Legendary pokemon that felt legendary.

I also feel similar towards USUM and how people overlooked the great things it did:
-Ultra Necrozma is amoung the best bosses in pokemon history.
-Hau was made better in terms of character & challenge.
-The Games were harder, easily the hardest games for me.
-They experimented heavily with side-quests. The rewards kinda sucked, but the quests were fun and unique.
And i also liked how Solgaleo & Lunala were handled in both SuMo & USUM. The end is different but i liked how their story worked in both.

Another thing i'll keep hoping for is a grander story. Far grander than gen 5 & Sun/Moon. At least make the story more personal.

 

[Cosmic77]

People are more concerned about both "National Dex" & in turn the false promises about animations & graphics.

The part about animations and graphics is something people should move on from by now. By Game Freak's standards, SwSh is pretty much exactly how I expected it to look. Still a huge upgrade from handheld graphics, but nothing worthy of an award. Graphics have never been their strong point, and just like a majority of the complaints people have about SwSh, a lot of it is fueled by the National Dex. Even if Game Freak didn't lie and stayed silent, the reaction would've been virtually the same. Any negative trait that normally would've been a minor thing to fans was blown out of proportion in an attempt to make the games seem worse than what they really were.

As for the National Dex, it's understandable. It had to happen eventually, and there's no way they would be able to add 1,000 or more Pokemon all at once every time a new game came out on a new console. If there are people who think the game is unpolished now, imagine how much worse it would be if they added every Pokemon.

 

[LukeRNG]

The part about animations and graphics is something people should move on from by now. By Game Freak's standards, SwSh is pretty much exactly how I expected it to look. Still a huge upgrade from handheld graphics, but nothing worthy of an award. Graphics have never been their strong point, and just like a majority of the complaints people have about SwSh, a lot of it is fueled by the National Dex. Even if Game Freak didn't lie and stayed silent, the reaction would've been virtually the same. Any negative trait that normally would've been a minor thing to fans was blown out of proportion in an attempt to make the games seem worse than what they really were.

As for the National Dex, it's understandable. It had to happen eventually, and there's no way they would be able to add 1,000 or more Pokemon all at once every time a new game came out on a new console. If there are people who think the game is unpolished now, imagine how much worse it would be if they added every Pokemon.

I honestly think the fact that people wouldn't shut up in 2015 about " Where's the next pokemon?", "Where's Pokemon Z?", "When are we getting the next pokemon games?". Maybe that's why we haven't had a year break of releasing pokemon games.
My current thought process (which is just baseless speculation) is that The Pokemon Company saw the demand of pokemon in 2015, so they decided to have the mainline pokemon games be released every year knowing how badly "we" want pokemon regardless of quality. If GameFreak had more time to make every game without developing 1-2 games in advance along with the current one then these complaints would be fewer.

And would also give them time to have substantial postgame. And maybe the dlc wouldn't feel like "we held back content from the base game on purpose to sell later for extra profit" to so many people. I will say that it's strange that they announced dlc so soon from the release of the base game. Barely 2 months afterward.

 

[Cosmic77]

And would also give them time to have substantial postgame. And maybe the dlc wouldn't feel like "we held back content from the base game on purpose to sell later for extra profit" to so many people. I will say that it's strange that they announced dlc so soon from the release of the base game. Barely 2 months afterward.

The DLC isn't anything new. They do this every Gen with third and fourth versions, which is why people should be careful with their complaints. Does anyone want to pay $120 for Heroic Sword and Heroic Shield?

Anyways, it seemed like they still had quite a bit of work left (if the loads of concept art didn't make that obvious enough). If they had waited until E3 like they usually do, I'm sure both DLC packs would've looked nearly complete.

 

[LukeRNG]

The DLC isn't anything new. They do this every Gen with third and fourth versions, which is why people should be careful with their complaints. Does anyone want to pay $120 for Heroic Sword and Heroic Shield?

Anyways, it seemed like they still had quite a bit of work left (if the loads of concept art didn't make that obvious enough). If they had waited until E3 like they usually do, I'm sure both DLC packs would've looked nearly complete.

I was very suprised that there was so many complaints that we were getting dlc instead of getting enhanced versions of the same game. We pay less to only get the new stuff.
I get that people wish that Pokemon could just progress as a series at a faster pace like 3D Mario & 3D Zelda for both the Gameplay & the Story being far greater than surface level stories and the same base gameplay. But as long as the games keep selling in the millions & Pokemon remains as the most profitable media franchise in the world, they will continue to progress the series at a very slow pace to keep the franchise going for as long as possible. And that will go on as long as people continue to enjoy the simplicity of pokemon & the appeal gets kids to convince their parents into buying games.

People don't really apreciate the things they do put a lot of care, thought & effort into: the pokemon & character designs, the music, the worldbuilding & lore of the world of pokemon. And the many things fans have been requested becoming a reality.

 

[RandomAce]

To be fair, a lot of people expected more from SwSh since it was going to make a big leap from handheld to console. I guess the best example to explain is a quote from a video by the Renegade Media Group called “React to Internet Historian: No Man’s Sky” who talked a bit about SwSh.

Around the 1:18:00 mark, one of the guys said that, “The deal with GameFreak is that they promised their fans with a product, but in the end they just gave about 1/3 of that product with borderline graphics and have to resort to selling the rest as paid DLC to get the whole experience... You’re free to enjoy the game, you’re free to have fun with the game, and SwSh is probably a good at least okay game, but it could’ve been a fantastic game, and the problem is that these people don’t want to stand up to these companies and be like ‘Hey we want something better’. And the people that throw money and support mediocrity are the reasons mediocrity continues to exist.”

It’s why people are going to continue to talk about the graphics and animations without “moving on”, it’s why people have a problem with the DLC when it was announced just 2 months after the game’s release. The game’s fun, the designs and core aspect of Pokémon are still great, and there are some improvements with the game and how they may drop the idea of third versions, but it could’ve been a much better game that could’ve taken advantage of the better hardware, and that potential is why people were annoyed, and the contradictory PR didn’t help either.

 

[LukeRNG]

To be fair, a lot of people expected more from SwSh since it was going to make a big leap from handheld to console. I guess the best example to explain is a quote from a video by the Renegade Media Group called “React to Internet Historian: No Man’s Sky” who talked a bit about SwSh.

Around the 1:18:00 mark, one of the guys said that, “The deal with GameFreak is that they promised their fans with a product, but in the end they just gave about 1/3 of that product with borderline graphics and have to resort to selling the rest as paid DLC to get the whole experience... You’re free to enjoy the game, you’re free to have fun with the game, and SwSh is probably a good at least okay game, but it could’ve been a fantastic game, and the problem is that these people don’t want to stand up to these companies and be like ‘Hey we want something better’. And the people that throw money and support mediocrity are the reasons mediocrity continues to exist.”

It’s why people are going to continue to talk about the graphics and animations without “moving on”, it’s why people have a problem with the DLC when it was announced just 2 months after the game’s release. The game’s fun, the designs and core aspect of Pokémon are still great, and there are some improvements with the game and how they may drop the idea of third versions, but it could’ve been a much better game that could’ve taken advantage of the better hardware, and that potential is why people were annoyed, and the contradictory PR didn’t help either.

And the issue is that i believe the majority of consumers aren't hardcore pokemon fans who are willing to stop supporting the games in hopes of the series getting better. They might be people who like pokemon the way it is & choose alternatives for more engaging stories & great gameplay.
And i'm one of those suckers who'll keep buying & playing pokemon until they start making objectively bad pokemon designs, uninteresting characters & barebones region. Or they make a broken, buggy mess of a game.

 

[Cosmic77]

Around the 1:18:00 mark, one of the guys said that, “The deal with GameFreak is that they promised their fans with a product, but in the end they just gave about 1/3 of that product with borderline graphics and have to resort to selling the rest as paid DLC to get the whole experience... You’re free to enjoy the game, you’re free to have fun with the game, and SwSh is probably a good at least okay game, but it could’ve been a fantastic game, and the problem is that these people don’t want to stand up to these companies and be like ‘Hey we want something better’. And the people that throw money and support mediocrity are the reasons mediocrity continues to exist.”

Again, I don't know why people are so shocked by the DLC. This isn't new. All they really did differently is announce an equivalent of a third version four and half months early. Yeah, I guess it makes people bitter that they announced it so close to release, but USUM began development before SuMo hit shelves too. Besides, SwSh's DLC isn't the same as a physical game. If their goal was to release this in bundles, they'd have to reveal this sometime in 2020's first quarter.

Regardless, his point about how SwSh is unfinished and that they resorted to selling the rest of the game as DLC is a common complaint I see, but what people don't seem to understand is that even after adding the DLC to the base game, it doesn't fix many of the complaints people had with SwSh. The graphics don't magically get better, old animations don't randomly become new, and the main story stays completely the same because (presumably) nothing in the DLC directly ties in with Team Yell, Chairman Rose, or any of the three Legendaries. The complaints about the National Dex will still exist because roughly 300 Pokemon would still be missing, and people have made it very clear that anything less than every Pokemon is unacceptable. I suppose you could say the base game would be more fleshed out, but it would be at the expense of no DLC or third version. Then people would probably complain about that too.

Maybe I'm weird. Maybe I'm too forgiving. Personally though, I'm happy with how the game turned out. It's not the best in the series, but I feel confident enough to say it's the best of the 3D Pokemon games. I feel like it was a step up from SuMo and definitely XY. They didn't improve on everything (story, for example), but I can still pull out a lot of good things that were addressed after fans complained when SuMo were released (fewer reveals before release, spiteful rival, etc.). I enjoyed myself, and I wish hardcore fans could be more like casuals where they're just enjoying the game for what it is instead of scrutinizing every minor detail.

 

[fogbadge]

To be fair, a lot of people expected more from SwSh since it was going to make a big leap from handheld to console. I guess the best example to explain is a quote from a video by the Renegade Media Group called “React to Internet Historian: No Man’s Sky” who talked a bit about SwSh.

Around the 1:18:00 mark, one of the guys said that, “The deal with GameFreak is that they promised their fans with a product, but in the end they just gave about 1/3 of that product with borderline graphics and have to resort to selling the rest as paid DLC to get the whole experience... You’re free to enjoy the game, you’re free to have fun with the game, and SwSh is probably a good at least okay game, but it could’ve been a fantastic game, and the problem is that these people don’t want to stand up to these companies and be like ‘Hey we want something better’. And the people that throw money and support mediocrity are the reasons mediocrity continues to exist.”

stand up to the company? i think hes confused the customer with the union workers

 

[Pokelego999]

My only issue with the graphics in SWSH is that Hop reuses Hau's animations.
Also remember when people were freaking out over a slightly bad tree? That happened.

 

[Staarih]

I kinda agree on some peoples’ thoughts on GameFreak being a bit behind the times, I feel like they don’t have the capacity to make a really big scale Pokémon game without outside help. Add to that their pressure to shove out a new game each year, and I can see why they cut some corners. More expertise and enough time would be needed for a new BotW/Odyssey defining Pokémon game.

Thus, I feel like SWSH are good under these circumstances. I got what I expected from them and enjoyed the majority of the ride. The new Pokémon are top notch, characters are likable and the world is beautiful. Sure, I miss the feeling of bumping into an obstacle somewhere, knowing to return when I have the means to get through it and discover more, but I guess linearity is the design choice they’ve adapted to now. And the Wild Area with its open world nature was probably prioritized anyway, and I think it’s a good base to build upon for future games.

The DLC fixes some things, like more returning Pokémon, more content to the game etc. And I surely am glad any ”third versions” are not (yet) to be seen and that the DLC-path was finally taken.

 

[fogbadge]

and how upset are you all by the cut corner's in smash ultimate?

 

[Pokelego999]

and how upset are you all by the cut corner's in smash ultimate?

I am steadily annoyed only Zero Suit Samus' model has been updated since brawl. Every brawl and smash 4 veteran gets the same model. (excluding characters that were completely changed like link and zelda.) Is a change of model a little too much to ask?

 

[Cosmic77]

No Direct planned for June.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Guess we're waiting a little longer.

 

[Delzethin]

Again, I don't know why people are so shocked by the DLC. This isn't new. All they really did differently is announce an equivalent of a third version four and half months early. Yeah, I guess it makes people bitter that they announced it so close to release, but USUM began development before SuMo hit shelves too. Besides, SwSh's DLC isn't the same as a physical game. If their goal was to release this in bundles, they'd have to reveal this sometime in 2020's first quarter.

Regardless, his point about how SwSh is unfinished and that they resorted to selling the rest of the game as DLC is a common complaint I see, but what people don't seem to understand is that even after adding the DLC to the base game, it doesn't fix many of the complaints people had with SwSh. The graphics don't magically get better, old animations don't randomly become new, and the main story stays completely the same because (presumably) nothing in the DLC directly ties in with Team Yell, Chairman Rose, or any of the three Legendaries. The complaints about the National Dex will still exist because roughly 300 Pokemon would still be missing, and people have made it very clear that anything less than every Pokemon is unacceptable. I suppose you could say the base game would be more fleshed out, but it would be at the expense of no DLC or third version. Then people would probably complain about that too.

Maybe I'm weird. Maybe I'm too forgiving. Personally though, I'm happy with how the game turned out. It's not the best in the series, but I feel confident enough to say it's the best of the 3D Pokemon games. I feel like it was a step up from SuMo and definitely XY. They didn't improve on everything (story, for example), but I can still pull out a lot of good things that were addressed after fans complained when SuMo were released (fewer reveals before release, spiteful rival, etc.). I enjoyed myself, and I wish hardcore fans could be more like casuals where they're just enjoying the game for what it is instead of scrutinizing every minor detail.

I think part of this whole thing started from some fans--and some people outside the Pokémon fandom--hyping up the idea of a mainline game on a console for the first time ever to the point where expectations got...out of hand. They were demanding "Skyrim: Galar Edition", practicality be damned, and so when we got "Pokémon in HD, with an open world central area", it didn't measure up to those lofty and not-entirely-realistic expectations.

And when the news of no National Dex got out? They felt outright betrayed. How were they supposed to catch 'em all now? I mean, even though that was never actually possible at the start of any generation prior without transferring in mons you'd already obtained in earlier generations. And even though most probably weren't planning on going for National Dex completion anyway; it was more that they could say it was possible. And even though the ever-increasing complexity of AAA production combined with the ever-increasing size of said National Dex meant it was becoming less and less practical to implement every single one of nearly 900 species, including several with multiple forms, and give them updated textures and animations where necessary (including new ones that show up when you set up camp).

I suppose that was why I wasn't too upset with the Dexit thing to begin with. I figured it was only a matter of time until it simply couldn't be done anymore at the very start of a generation and would have to be stretched out over multiple games. This may be a massive franchise with (ideally) the best of the best developing it, but they're still only human. Yet you have vocal parts of the fandom treating them like drones.

I even say that as someone who does have a few issues with Sword & Shield. The games do feel a little too linear in places, even if it's a FFX kind of linear that generally does a good job hiding secrets and rewarding observant players. The story falls apart in the late game, to where I have several ideas for how to improve it. The postgame still feels too sparse and reliant on setting players up to whichever niche they want to get into (competitive battling, shiny hunting, Galar Dex completion, etc.) and then turning them loose.

But are these bad games, much less the downfall of the franchise for daring to not cater to out-of-control expectations that were thrust upon them? Far from it. The worldbuilding is still on point, the locations are varied and vibrant, and a lot of the new mons have really good designs. They hit the mark on climactic setpieces in ways that previous games were hit-and-miss at best on--remember your first Gym Leader match and how the fight transitioned seamlessly from the cutscene? And the upcoming DLC will add even more content, and since they can focus purely on new stuff instead of retreating old ground like a third version would, there'll be significantly more of it because they chose this path.

I suppose this whole situation goes to show how much one's first impression of something can influence everything you feel about it even months later. And so the crusade that began nearly a year ago over a perceived slight rages on while we're left trying to be fairer and more constructive.


On a more interesting note, check out who got a TCG spotlight yesterday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Smashing Edge...now that's a forward smash name if I've ever seen one.

 

[Staarih]

Guess we're waiting a little longer.

No Direct doesn't mean no announcements though. We could just have a separate Sakurai stream reveal much like with Byleth, or something. Though surely, if one happens in June, it'll be for the ARMS character. Interesting times we live in.

 

[fogbadge]

I am steadily annoyed only Zero Suit Samus' model has been updated since brawl. Every brawl and smash 4 veteran gets the same model. (excluding characters that were completely changed like link and zelda.) Is a change of model a little too much to ask?

it is odd how some characters like link were updated to match more recent games while other characters like villager were left in the past

No Direct planned for June.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Guess we're waiting a little longer.

well i suppose that makes sense, it cant be easy for video game companies to film at home as it is for some other things

 

[LukeRNG]

and how upset are you all by the cut corner's in smash ultimate?

I don't even know what corners it cut. If possible could you tell me what corners it cut exactly. If it's 3D models then i'd never notice.

No Direct planned for June.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Guess we're waiting a little longer.

That's rough, that virus sure is screwing everyone hard. Though i'm sure it's still a rumor til Nintendo says something.

I wonder how the annoying direct beggers from twitter will react to this news.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't even know what corners it cut. If possible could you tell me what corners it cut exactly. If it's 3D models then i'd never notice.

well most veterans have repurposed voice clips, many from brawl, five have had their since the first game. most music was reused. there was a greater focus on old stuff rather than new stuff with mostly updated textures than models. its development time was shorter than its two predecessors so its not surprising

basically if anyone is upset by what they see as cut corners in pokemon they should be upset by the same things in smash other wise its just hypocrisy

 

[LukeRNG]

well most veterans have repurposed voice clips, many from brawl, five have had their since the first game. most music was reused. there was a greater focus on old stuff rather than new stuff with mostly updated textures than models. its development time was shorter than its two predecessors so its not surprising

basically if anyone is upset by what they see as cut corners in pokemon they should be upset by the same things in smash other wise its just hypocrisy

I think those people weigh "quantity" over everything else. They see Ultimate having an immense amount of characters, stages, music, and other content for everyone to enjoy as the pinnacle of the series, whereas with Pokemon Sword and Shield many people see the lack of the full dex as a huge issue along with other missing features as the bottom of the abyss.
They might see Ultimate's shortcuts like this:

-They probably don't care if they reuse voice clips if they're good & iconic enough. Heck, the new voice lines for some characters feel very off.
(Are there really characters that used their voice since 64?! They sound so different to me).

-I think with music people would've been pissed if they didn't bring back most of the music from the past. A lot of those songs don't really need remixes. It also fits with how ultimate is the legacy game of the franchise.

-To be fair the focus on old characters allowed for changes to the gameplay & the proper balancing of all the characters. It's still not perfect, but it's the best in the series. I'd argue the best in fighting game history. And it's the polar opposite to cutting more than 50% of the dex.

I think here's the biggest turning point for having totally different responses: many people said time and time again they'd be more than fine with a switch port of smash 4 if nothing else. Their expectations were low as everyone was surprised with the return of every character ever, the inclusion of highly requested characters, and an abundance of content in most of ultimate's avenues. And if we look at pokemon, people were going above and beyond with hopes, dreams and expectations for pokemon's first full HD experience.

And as we all know, high quantity ≠ high quality.

 

[fogbadge]

I think those people weigh "quantity" over everything else. They see Ultimate having an immense amount of characters, stages, music, and other content for everyone to enjoy as the pinnacle of the series, whereas with Pokemon Sword and Shield many people see the lack of the full dex as a huge issue along with other missing features as the bottom of the abyss.
They might see Ultimate's shortcuts like this:

-They probably don't care if they reuse voice clips if they're good & iconic enough. Heck, the new voice lines for some characters feel very off.
(Are there really characters that used their voice since 64?! They sound so different to me).

-I think with music people would've been pissed if they didn't bring back most of the music from the past. A lot of those songs don't really need remixes. It also fits with how ultimate is the legacy game of the franchise.

-To be fair the focus on old characters allowed for changes to the gameplay & the proper balancing of all the characters. It's still not perfect, but it's the best in the series. I'd argue the best in fighting game history. And it's the polar opposite to cutting more than 50% of the dex.

I think here's the biggest turning point for having totally different responses: many people said time and time again they'd be more than fine with a switch port of smash 4 if nothing else. Their expectations were low as everyone was surprised with the return of every character ever, the inclusion of highly requested characters, and an abundance of content in most of ultimate's avenues. And if we look at pokemon, people were going above and beyond with hopes, dreams and expectations for pokemon's first full HD experience.

And as we all know, high quantity ≠ high quality.

the way i see it, after the dex cut nothing game freak could have done would have been enough as far as most of those fans are concerned

a lot of the old voice clips sound very off (im looking at you bowser) ok upon double checking its seems its just yoshi who voice hasnt changed at all

i think some of the fans had unrealistic expectations for gen 8

 

[Cosmic77]

Found a video discussing the most likely Gen 8 candidates for Smash and what their movesets would be. Didn't get a chance to watch the whole thing, but I did like the ideas he had for the first few Pokemon he brought up.

Can't find many videos discussing Gen 8 and Smash, so it's always a treat for me whenever I manage to find a good one.

 

[LukeRNG]

the way i see it, after the dex cut nothing game freak could have done would have been enough as far as most of those fans are concerned

a lot of the old voice clips sound very off (im looking at you bowser) ok upon double checking its seems its just yoshi who voice hasnt changed at all

i think some of the fans had unrealistic expectations for gen 8

-I'm personally not a fan of Donkey Kong's & Bowser's voices. I think the realism they were going for don't fit these characters. Diddy & King K. Rool sound alright.

-The fact that many franchises went "all out" on the Nintendo Switch (Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Smash, Splatoon, Metroid eventually). plus the announcement that pokemon mainline games were coming to switch (which happened after people were dissapointed with the announcement of Pokken port on switch and USUM on 3DS), made people go wild because there was no longer any limit to what pokemon could be (as being on handheld made them be forgiving to pokemon's faults). And they assumed that if the other big series went all out on Switch, then why not pokemon.

 

[fogbadge]

-I'm personally not a fan of Donkey Kong's & Bowser's voices. I think the realism they were going for don't fit these characters. Diddy & King K. Rool sound alright.

-The fact that many franchises went "all out" on the Nintendo Switch (Mario, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Smash, Splatoon, Metroid eventually). plus the announcement that pokemon mainline games were coming to switch (which happened after people were dissapointed with the announcement of Pokken port on switch and USUM on 3DS), made people go wild because there was no longer any limit to what pokemon could be (as being on handheld made them be forgiving to pokemon's faults). And they assumed that if the other big series went all out on Switch, then why not pokemon.

i really wish bowser had his proper voice. k.rool had been mia for 10 years so im not even sure how his voice sounded in his last game, though i still hear the laugh from DK64 every time his final smash is used

i guess people forget that game freak is technically a separate company that can still make games that arent co owned by nintendo and what nintendo does isnt always gonna be what game freak does. sword and shield were pretty much what i would have expected from a pokemon game on the switch but alas not really anything to be done about it now

 

[Pokelego999]

i really wish bowser had his proper voice. k.rool had been mia for 10 years so im not even sure how his voice sounded in his last game, though i still hear the laugh from DK64 every time his final smash is used

i guess people forget that game freak is technically a separate company that can still make games that arent co owned by nintendo and what nintendo does isnt always gonna be what game freak does. sword and shield were pretty much what i would have expected from a pokemon game on the switch but alas not really anything to be done about it now

A prime example of Game Freak doing stuff by themselves without Nintendo is Tembo the Bada** Elephant. Sega published instead of Nintendo, and Game Freak developed it.

 

[fogbadge]

A prime example of Game Freak doing stuff by themselves without Nintendo is Tembo the Bada** Elephant. Sega published instead of Nintendo, and Game Freak developed it.

yep and they hadnt done that since before pokemon

 

[LukeRNG]

Found a video discussing the most likely Gen 8 candidates for Smash and what their movesets would be. Didn't get a chance to watch the whole thing, but I did like the ideas he had for the first few Pokemon he brought up.

Can't find many videos discussing Gen 8 and Smash, so it's always a treat for me whenever I manage to find a good one.

The last few picks were talking about the starters and lastly Zacian & Zamazenta. It's pretty much what i expected from those pokemon, but i did like the ideas for Zacian.
I was surprised that he dodn't talk about Dragapult. It's odd the low amount of people talking about it as its the most popular galar pokemon.

 

[fogbadge]

I was surprised that he dodn't talk about Dragapult. It's odd the low amount of people talking about it as its the most popular galar pokemon.

it is odd, maybe the vast majority of fans are convinced itll just be another starter

 

[LukeRNG]

it is odd, maybe the vast majority of fans are convinced itll just be another starter

Or they're used to getting pokemon with a humanoid body type and don't believe we could get any pokemon that roughly shares Squirtle, Ivysaur or Charizard's anatomy.