The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


Results are only viewable after voting.

fogbadge

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Main post finally updated. Not sure if many people will come to read it, but it's there.

Anyway, I was thinking of renaming this thread. Part of the reason is because of the Sirfetch'd thread, but also because Zacian and Zamazenta are never referred to as knights in SwSh. Here's what I was considering:

1. Galar's Greatest Warriors: Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash
2. The Legendary Heroes of Galar: Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash
3. Stop the Darkest Day: Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Does anyone have a preference, or would you prefer I keep the current title?
those titles maybe ever so slightly spoilery

The current title is pretty good, but i'm digging #2 personally.

Anyway, maybe it's too soon to say, but what is your favorite pokemon from the galar region?
I haven't really decided on which I love the most, given my opinions are mostly based on fanart and bits of gameplay.
(Is it still too soon to stop using the spoilers tab for the new pokemon?)
polteagiest, eiscue and the applin fmily
 

Cosmic77

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I didn't get much feedback, but I went ahead and changed the title of the thread. Personally, I think this one is more fitting.

Also, I'm working on a review of Sword and Shield. Hoping I can have it done by this weekend.
 
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Zacian's just a wolf with a sword. So many people are fed up with sword users in smash. That's why the Sora for smash fanbase has shrunk. Honestly, I don't want either. No 4-lrgged pokemon with no vines or similar will ever work in smash. If they were to add any Pokemon to Smash,

I'd prefer Blaziken. Or Intelleon, I can see that working very well. But, if I had to pick one Pokemon, It'd be Chandelure.

Zacian and Zamazenta are Spirits.
 

LukeRNG

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Zacian's just a wolf with a sword. So many people are fed up with sword users in smash. That's why the Sora for smash fanbase has shrunk. Honestly, I don't want either. No 4-lrgged pokemon with no vines or similar will ever work in smash. If they were to add any Pokemon to Smash,

I'd prefer Blaziken. Or Intelleon, I can see that working very well. But, if I had to pick one Pokemon, It'd be Chandelure.

Zacian and Zamazenta are Spirits.
I think you're putting a few nonexistent limits right there.

For one, there's zero rules that specifically say that spirits can't become playable characters (if it were true, the vast majority of requested 1st & 2nd party characters wouldn't be picked and would drastically limit the selection of potential nintendo dlc characters).

For second, if Sakurai can make up movesets for many of the characters in the game with little basis or even struggle to think up a moveset for (Game & Watch, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Wii Fit Trainer, Jigglypuff, Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant, Villager, Pac-Man, Mii, etc.) I highly doubt a quad character would be too hard to implement. Plus Zacian has ribbons to hold it's sword which could also work a bit like Ivysaur's vines.
Let's not rule out any specific archetype of characters too prematurely.

I'm pretty sure if Sakurai wants to add a character whether they have a sword or not he will add them anyways (people are only tired of sword characters because of Fire Emblem's sudden increase of characters back in smash 4 and since then Sakurai has consistently added many characters that use swords and for the most part people don't bat an eye).
And I personally haven't seen the Sora hype drop too much from my experience.

But regardless, to each their own.
 
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I think you're putting a few nonexistent limits right there.

For one, there's zero rules that specifically say that spirits can't become playable characters (if it were true, the vast majority of requested 1st & 2nd party characters wouldn't be picked and would drastically limit the selection of potential nintendo dlc characters).

For second, if Sakurai can make up movesets for many of the characters in the game with little basis or even struggle to think up a moveset for (Game & Watch, R.O.B., Captain Falcon, Wii Fit Trainer, Jigglypuff, Duck Hunt, Piranha Plant, Villager, Pac-Man, Mii, etc.) I highly doubt a quad character would be too hard to implement. Plus Zacian has ribbons to hold it's sword which could also work a bit like Ivysaur's vines.
Let's not rule out any specific archetype of characters too prematurely.

I'm pretty sure if Sakurai wants to add a character whether they have a sword or not he will add them anyways (people are only tired of sword characters because of Fire Emblem's sudden increase of characters back in smash 4 and since then Sakurai has consistently added many characters that use swords and for the most part people don't bat an eye).
And I personally haven't seen the Sora hype drop too much from my experience.

But regardless, to each their own.
Just so you know, Duck Hunt has the duck as well. I could kinda see Zamazenta bringing something new to the table, but Zacian? That's already been done through the who knows how many Fire Emblem Characters, and Link, and Meta Knight. But I do like the idea of them witching out as a duo. Honestly though, I think they should do an Ice Climbers thing with Plusle and Minun.

Also Zacian holds his Sword in it's mouth, not with the ribbons.

He had lots for Game & Watch, Wii Fit, Jigglypuff, Piranha Plant, Mii and Pac-Man. Besides, I just think that he shouldn't give characters who are spirits or assists or anything else the player character treatment.

They also don't have what (most of) the other cast do - they aren't famous enough. Even Piranha Plant - sure, it's dumb - but it's known enough. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and ROB are retro and are all unique. These two aren't unique enough for me. Toxtricity or Chandelure would be better.

My opinion, just saying.
 
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fogbadge

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Just so you know, Duck Hunt has the duck as well. I could kinda see Zamazenta bringing something new to the table, but Zacian? That's already been done through the who knows how many Fire Emblem Characters, and Link, and Meta Knight. But I do like the idea of them witching out as a duo. Honestly though, I think they should do an Ice Climbers thing with Plusle and Minun.

Also Zacian holds his Sword in it's mouth, not with the ribbons.

He had lots for Game & Watch, Wii Fit, Jigglypuff, Piranha Plant, Mii and Pac-Man. Besides, I just think that he shouldn't give characters who are spirits or assists or anything else the player character treatment.

They also don't have what (most of) the other cast do - they aren't famous enough. Even Piranha Plant - sure, it's dumb - but it's known enough. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and ROB are retro and are all unique. These two aren't unique enough for me. Toxtricity or Chandelure would be better.

My opinion, just saying.
so you a wolf with a sword in its mouth would be no different than the guys who wield it in their hands? also the sora support hasnt gone down. as for famous enough, the version mascots, every gen the most recognisable pokemon are the version mascots and the starters
 

Cosmic77

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Everyone sees Pokemon differently. A lot of people thought Incineroar would never even get a glimpse of Smash because there was absolutely no way it would get in over the brilliant Decidueye. Look who got the last laugh.

I can't speak for Sakurai on whether or not he'll see the appeal in Zacian and/or Zamazenta, but I can say that both are very notable Pokemon from this Gen. I feel like that's enough for him to at least consider the idea. And if neither end up getting in and I get burned from the loss, oh well. At least I had fun supporting them with other people who thought they would be cool.
 
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fogbadge

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Everyone sees Pokemon differently. A lot of people thought Incineroar would never even get a glimpse of Smash because there was absolutely no way it would get in over the brilliant Decidueye. Look who got the last laugh.
.
not a decidueye fan i take it?
 
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Zacian's just a wolf with a sword. So many people are fed up with sword users in smash. That's why the Sora for smash fanbase has shrunk. Honestly, I don't want either. No 4-lrgged pokemon with no vines or similar will ever work in smash. If they were to add any Pokemon to Smash,

I'd prefer Blaziken. Or Intelleon, I can see that working very well. But, if I had to pick one Pokemon, It'd be Chandelure.

Zacian and Zamazenta are Spirits.
1. Swordfighters aren't automatically gonna be hated cause they have a sword. The only reason this issue existed was because of fire emblem, which makes sense, as it has a large character pool to choose from.
2. Since when did Sora's fanbase shrink? If you're talking about thread inactivity or something, that doesn't really count. Just look at this one.
3. Since when are quadrupeds bad? Just cause there aren't many doesn't mean they are out. Like I mean, heck, chandelure, your recommended character, doesn't even have legs and floats to move. That's harder to get working than a quadruped. And if you say "Dark Samus floats so it's fine.", that doesn't mean much, as there are more quadrupeds than floaters in smash.
4. I cringe every time I hear this argument. There is nothing deconfirming spirits. To an extent, even if I don't believe this would happen, assist trophies could also promote, even if the chances are slim. None of your arguments for spirits deconfirming fighters hold water either.
5. Why did you post this here? Just cause you don't like the characters doesn't mean you should go to the heart of the community and trash talk them. That's more rude than anything. Keep those thoughts to yourself, maybe oft quote it in another thread sometime. But don't be rude to a whole community up front. Trust me, I've learned my lesson on that one already.
Just so you know, Duck Hunt has the duck as well. I could kinda see Zamazenta bringing something new to the table, but Zacian? That's already been done through the who knows how many Fire Emblem Characters, and Link, and Meta Knight. But I do like the idea of them witching out as a duo. Honestly though, I think they should do an Ice Climbers thing with Plusle and Minun.

Also Zacian holds his Sword in it's mouth, not with the ribbons.

He had lots for Game & Watch, Wii Fit, Jigglypuff, Piranha Plant, Mii and Pac-Man. Besides, I just think that he shouldn't give characters who are spirits or assists or anything else the player character treatment.

They also don't have what (most of) the other cast do - they aren't famous enough. Even Piranha Plant - sure, it's dumb - but it's known enough. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers and ROB are retro and are all unique. These two aren't unique enough for me. Toxtricity or Chandelure would be better.

My opinion, just saying.
1. You didn't exactly clarify. The duck doesn't change the fact that duck hunt is quadruped.
2. Sakurai already knows mostly everyone hates the swordfighters, that's why he was trying to bring something new to the table when creating Robin, Corrin, and Hero. You guys were literally campaigning for Ganondorf to have a sword since melee, so that argument doesn't hold water either.
3. I don't really have much to say on this one.
4. There has been official artwork of Zacian holding the sword in it's ribbons, so it's canon.
5. That's your own opinion man. Don't start spreading opinion as fact. It just leads to more toxicity in the community.
6. Not famous enough? Sakurai said himself, if they are unique and fun to use, it doesn't matter if the character is famous or not.
7. Any pokemon can be unique, due to their large movepool. And even then, we saw with greninja and incineroar that Sakurai can make something original out of unreleased things yet.
8. We already heard your opinion man. If you want to champion for these characters, make their threads. Support them. Build up support in the community. Instead of complaining, just do it yourself.
 
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1. Swordfighters aren't automatically gonna be hated cause they have a sword. The only reason this issue existed was because of fire emblem, which makes sense, as it has a large character pool to choose from.
2. Since when did Sora's fanbase shrink? If you're talking about thread inactivity or something, that doesn't really count. Just look at this one.
3. Since when are quadrupeds bad? Just cause there aren't many doesn't mean they are out. Like I mean, heck, chandelure, your recommended character, doesn't even have legs and floats to move. That's harder to get working than a quadruped. And if you say "Dark Samus floats so it's fine.", that doesn't mean much, as there are more quadrupeds than floaters in smash.
4. I cringe every time I hear this argument. There is nothing deconfirming spirits. To an extent, even if I don't believe this would happen, assist trophies could also promote, even if the chances are slim. None of your arguments for spirits deconfirming fighters hold water either.
5. Why did you post this here? Just cause you don't like the characters doesn't mean you should go to the heart of the community and trash talk them. That's more rude than anything. Keep those thoughts to yourself, maybe oft quote it in another thread sometime. But don't be rude to a whole community up front. Trust me, I've learned my lesson on that one already./QUOTE]

On 5, I was bullied because i wanted Chandelure in the 1st party thread. The worst part? They said I was bullying the,
Honestly, I thought about it more, and they could do something cool with these two or it'd flop. Badly.
They're now on my Sm6sh wishlist - low on it, but there. Not as Ultimate DLC tho.
Lemme see the quads - Ivysaur and Duck Hunt (Piranha Plant?)
Floaters - Dark Samus
 

Delzethin

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A lot's been happening with leakers and Smash, so I thought we could discuss something a little different while we wait for Fighter #5 to blow over.

Could just be a coincidence, but a few people pointed this out.

View attachment 251140
View attachment 251141
Yeah, there seems to be something going on there. The legendaries' presence in the anime poster is nothing unusual on its own, but the latter screenshot (Is that from the anime's opening?) shading Ash and Go in cyan and magenta is an eyebrow raiser. Wouldn't be surprised if they end up joining forces just like what happens in the games.
 
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Cosmic77

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I'm sure they'll debut soon enough. Maybe they'll even get a movie, though it's hard to say what they plan on doing with both the anime and the films from now on. I just don't want them to get shafted worse than Solgaleo and Lunala did, which is a real possibility given how Galar is sharing the spotlight with seven other regions.
 
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fogbadge

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having ash and go team up with zacian and zamazenta is exactly the kind of route the anime would take, we dont need indicators that this is what they may do
 

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So there's some good scenarios coming from an unerwhelming Game Awards.
Given that the last character wasn't shown at all at the game awards, there's a bigger chance for a ''minor'' character to end off dlc wave 1, among them a nintendo rep.
 

Cosmic77

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So there's some good scenarios coming from an unerwhelming Game Awards.
Given that the last character wasn't shown at all at the game awards, there's a bigger chance for a ''minor'' character to end off dlc wave 1, among them a nintendo rep.
The final character not being revealed at the VGAs just makes said character even more of a question mark.

That being said, I feel more confident in assuming the last DLC character will be shown off in the January Direct alongside possible info on the next batch of DLC. Worst-case scenario - the last character is third-party and they use that to emphasize the importance of "multiple gaming worlds" being in Smash. Then the next character is revealed, which ends up being another third-party. Best-case scenario for us would be a direct confirmation of Zacian and/or Zamazenta, but I feel we should settle for something more realistic. A first-party/Spirit or AT upgrade would be great for our chances.
 

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Something very interesting came up yesterday.


A new 7 episode mini series set in the Galar Region. The whole description tells me it'll be geared towards an older audience.
Apparently it's categorized as a Drama series.
 
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Something very interesting came up yesterday.


A new 7 episode mini series set in the Galar Region. The whole description tells me it'll be geared towards an older audience.
Apparently it's categorized as a Drama series.
Can’t wait for the dub to inevitably ruin the drama.
 

Cosmic77

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We also have some news regarding the anime. The next film is slated for July 2020, and it's said to be the first original Pokemon movie in 2 years (which is a more interesting way of saying this year's movie was a remake instead of being brand new like every film before it.) Perhaps we'll go back to the trend of box art Legendaries being featured in the first movie?

Also, here's a pair of gifs taken from the new opening of the anime. They're much better than the pics I shared earier on the previous page.

4e2e50f7709a12fe557d4295fb9612bf99f19e35.gifv.gif

cac1ea26a75f51f798cd8184e889c1fa58c2b36b.gifv.gif


Gotta love Zacian's smile.
 
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LukeRNG

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Can’t wait for the dub to inevitably ruin the drama.
I mean, Pokemon Generations was good.

We also have some news regarding the anime. The next film is slated for July 2020, and it's said to be the first original Pokemon movie in 2 years (which is a more interesting way of saying this year's movie was a remake instead of being brand new like every film before it.) Perhaps we'll go back to the trend of box art Legendaries being featured in the first movie?

Also, here's a pair of gifs taken from the new opening of the anime. They're much better than the pics I shared earier on the previous page.

View attachment 252869
View attachment 252870

Gotta love Zacian's smile.
Really curious when we'll see them show up in the anime. Maybe next episode.
 

Cosmic77

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With the globe-trotting theme, do you think they'll finally address the Ash/Ho-Oh teasing way back when?
There's actually already an episode planned featuring Ash and Ho-Oh.

EI1DvQEUUAAXTU5.jpeg.jpg


I wouldn't get my hope up just yet though. The Pikachu backstory was something a lot of fans wanted to see, and all they showed us was that Pikachu was temporarily raised by a Kangaskhan before it evolved. We never got an explanation as to why it hates Pokeballs or doesn't want to evolve. We didn't even get to see how it got caught by Oak. There's no telling what they'll actually address and if this is just bait to watch the new show.
 
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There's actually already an episode planned featuring Ash and Ho-Oh.

View attachment 253047

I wouldn't get my hope up just yet though. The Pikachu backstory was something a lot of fans wanted to see, and all they showed us was that Pikachu was temporarily raised by a Kangaskhan before it evolved. We never got an explanation as to why it hates Pokeballs or doesn't want to evolve. We didn't even get to see how it got caught by Oak. There's no telling what they'll actually address and if this is just bait to watch the new show.
Was it ever confirmed that that's all we're getting? I mean, it was only the first episode of the series.
 

Cosmic77

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Was it ever confirmed that that's all we're getting? I mean, it was only the first episode of the series.
Pikachu's backstory? No, but I don't see why we should get any answers to the things I listed in my previous post. The episode spent half of it's time introducing us to two of the new characters in the show, and then it ended with Ash meeting Pikachu like he did in the very first episode. If there was anything more they were going to show us, I don't see why they'd wait several episodes later and randomly jump back in time when we already have the main plot of the series set up now.

The best thing at this point would be Pikachu meeting up with the Kangaskhan that raised him.
 
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There's actually already an episode planned featuring Ash and Ho-Oh.

View attachment 253047

I wouldn't get my hope up just yet though. The Pikachu backstory was something a lot of fans wanted to see, and all they showed us was that Pikachu was temporarily raised by a Kangaskhan before it evolved. We never got an explanation as to why it hates Pokeballs or doesn't want to evolve. We didn't even get to see how it got caught by Oak. There's no telling what they'll actually address and if this is just bait to watch the new show.
Do those things really need to be explained, though? Misty's Psyduck didn't need more explanation than "he's stupid" for randomly emerging from his Pokeball, and the Lt. Surge episode made it pretty clear Pikachu didn't want to evolve out of a bruised ego, not wanting to just emulate the guy that beat him. Since then it's just been a mutual understanding between the two to not do so until they both agree to, plus the anime can give the excuse Ash prefers Pikachu to be smaller and more agile so as to fit his battling style, that wouldn't fly in the games.

Sheesh, I don't need Ash to catch Ho-Oh or anything, just making any kind of effort to seek it out would be enough of a nod for me.
 

Cosmic77

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Do those things really need to be explained, though? Misty's Psyduck didn't need more explanation than "he's stupid" for randomly emerging from his Pokeball, and the Lt. Surge episode made it pretty clear Pikachu didn't want to evolve out of a bruised ego, not wanting to just emulate the guy that beat him. Since then it's just been a mutual understanding between the two to not do so until they both agree to, plus the anime can give the excuse Ash prefers Pikachu to be smaller and more agile so as to fit his battling style, that wouldn't fly in the games.

Sheesh, I don't need Ash to catch Ho-Oh or anything, just making any kind of effort to seek it out would be enough of a nod for me.
Maybe not, but a lot of people were expecting the episode to reveal more than it did. Getting a Pikachu backstory episode was really unexpected, and they promoted it as a special event with an hour-long pre-show and everything. The episode was cute, but it left fans with more questions than answers. It didn't amount to much more than seeing Pikachu evolve, and the parts focusing on Gao were meatier and more revealing. Gao needed some background, but it cut into what they had been promoting the episode as.

This probably would've worked better as two separate episodes.
 
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Cosmic77

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A bit late, but here's the moveset I have for Zacian.

Entrance animation - Jumps on to the stage in its Hero of Many Battles form and pulls out a rusted sword from the ground, transforming into Crowned Sword in the process.

Neutral attack - Slashes sword twice before howling and releasing a small soundwave. Can be chained in to each other. Soundwave has a decent hitbox in front of Zacian and does small knockback.

Dash attack - Quickly swings head/sword three times as it comes to a screeching halt.

Forward tilt - One firm slash. Powerful, but has some slight endlag after the attack.
Up tilt - Does a small hop and uses the blades on its back to attack.
Down tilt - Leans head forward and pokes its sword in front of it. Similar to Marth's down tilt.
Forward Smash - Sword transforms into Behemoth form. One powerful slash in front of Zacian with high knockback.
Up Smash - Uses its ribbon-like fur to swing the Behemoth Blade over it's back. Covers a wide distance.
Down Smash - Uses its ribbon-like fur to swing the Behemoth Blade behind it while it bites directly in front of it. Longer hitbox on the sword, but more knockback from the mouth.
Neutral aerial - several small orange swords from Swords Dance spin around Zacian.
Forward aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance slashes in front of Zacian.
Back aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance slashes behind Zacian.
Up aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance rockets directly above Zacian. Disappears after reaching a certain height.
Down aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance plummets directly below Zacian. Disappears after falling to a certain point.
Neutral special: Laser Focus - a chargeable move. Once fully charged, a critical hit is guaranteed if the next hit connects. Takes 3 seconds to complete. Zacian cannot move during the charge, and it cannot be cancelled out of.
Side special: Moonblast - Zacian blasts a small power orb. Similar to Greninja's water shuriken, as it requires Zacian to stay still as it charges. Automatically launches once fully charged.
Up special: Flying Sword - Zacian throws its sword before using quick attack to fetch it. Similar to Ike and Chrom's up special except the direction the sword is thrown can be adjusted to be diagonal and horizontal as well.
Down special: Swords Dance - a chargeable move that requires Zacian to stay still while Swords Dance is being used. Once fully charged, attack power doubles for 10 seconds. Can be cancelled by shielding.

Final Smash: Behemoth Team-up. Zacian and Zamazenta team up and perform the cinematic from Sword and Shield for Behemoth Blade and Behemoth Bash respectively together.
 
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A bit late, but here's the moveset I have for Zacian.

Entrance animation - Jumps on to the stage in its Hero of Many Battles form and pulls out a rusted sword from the ground, transforming into Crowned Sword in the process.

Neutral attack - Slashes sword twice before howling and releasing a small soundwave. Can be chained in to each other. Soundwave has a decent hitbox in front of Zacian and does small knockback.

Dash attack - Quickly swings head/sword three times as it comes to a screeching halt.

Forward tilt - One firm slash. Powerful, but has some slight endlag after the attack.
Up tilt - Does a small hop and uses the blades on its back to attack.
Down tilt - Leans head forward and pokes its sword in front of it. Similar to Marth's down tilt.
Forward Smash - Sword transforms into Behemoth form. One powerful slash in front of Zacian with high knockback.
Up Smash - Uses its ribbon-like fur to swing the Behemoth Blade over it's back. Covers a wide distance.
Down Smash - Uses its ribbon-like fur to swing the Behemoth Blade behind it while it bites directly in front of it. Longer hitbox on the sword, but more knockback from the mouth.
Neutral aerial - several small orange swords from Swords Dance spin around Zacian.
Forward aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance slashes in front of Zacian.
Back aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance slashes behind Zacian.
Up aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance rockets directly above Zacian. Disappears after reaching a certain height.
Down aerial - one small orange sword from Swords Dance plummets directly below Zacian. Disappears after falling to a certain point.
Neutral special: Laser Focus - a chargeable move. Once fully charged, a critical hit is guaranteed if the next hit connects. Takes 3 seconds to complete. Zacian cannot move during the charge, and it cannot be cancelled out of.
Side special: Moonblast - Zacian blasts a small power orb. Similar to Greninja's water shuriken, as it requires Zacian to stay still as it charges. Automatically launches once fully charged.
Up special: Flying Sword - Zacian throws its sword before using quick attack to fetch it. Similar to Ike and Chrom's up special except the direction the sword is thrown can be adjusted to be diagonal and horizontal as well.
Down special: Swords Dance - a chargeable move that requires Zacian to stay still while Swords Dance is being used. Once fully charged, attack power doubles for 10 seconds. Can be cancelled by shielding.

Final Smash: Behemoth Team-up. Zacian and Zamazenta team up and perform the cinematic from Sword and Shield for Behemoth Blade and Behemoth Bash respectively together.
Can't Zacian be a little more acrobatic in the sky than just making swords appear from thin air? Have her turn around after her back air if you really need to make it convincing. Also, three seconds that can't be interrupted is just way too long for most matches; even the slowest characters could chase you down during the charge. The slowest uncancellable startup in Warlock Punch is just over a second, to put things in perspective.

Two buffing specials seems like overkill, especially when Swords Dance is much more consistent. I also question Moonblast, because Special Attack is both of the dog's weakest stats. They're very much up-close, physical fighters, so a rushing Play Rough seems much more appropriate.
 

Cosmic77

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Can't Zacian be a little more acrobatic in the sky than just making swords appear from thin air? Have her turn around after her back air if you really need to make it convincing. Also, three seconds that can't be interrupted is just way too long for most matches; even the slowest characters could chase you down during the charge. The slowest uncancellable startup in Warlock Punch is just over a second, to put things in perspective.

Two buffing specials seems like overkill, especially when Swords Dance is much more consistent. I also question Moonblast, because Special Attack is both of the dog's weakest stats. They're very much up-close, physical fighters, so a rushing Play Rough seems much more appropriate.
Regarding the swords appearing mid-air, I just wanted Zacian to have more visually interesting attacks. One complaint I have with sword characters is how the generic swings and slashes usually make up everything except the specials. Felt criminal to do the same thing with a Pokemon, and since Zacian is the literal representation of a sword, why not have it summon swords?

I didn't think three seconds was too unfair considering how it's a guaranteed critical hit if it connects. It's supposed to be a more versatile Rest.

I gave Zacian two buffing specials because that's exactly what SwSh emphasizes. It's sheer strength and ability to increase its power is what's been highlighted in the games, so I thought it should be carried over. Didn't want to do a rage mechanic like Lucario, and Incineroar stole the idea of a counter move that increases the power of your next attack, so I got creative and tried to make the buffing specials as unique as possible.

Don't have much to say about Moonblast. Honestly, I just wanted Zacian to have a projectile move to compensate for it (presumably) being the largest swordfighter in Smash.
 
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Regarding the swords appearing mid-air, I just wanted Zacian to have more visually interesting attacks. One complaint I have with sword characters is how the generic swings and slashes usually make up everything except the specials. Felt criminal to do the same thing with a Pokemon, and since Zacian is the literal representation of a sword, why not have it summon swords?

I didn't think three seconds was too unfair considering how it's a guaranteed critical hit if it connects. It's supposed to be a more versatile Rest.

I gave Zacian two buffing specials because that's exactly what SwSh emphasizes. It's sheer strength and ability to increase its power is what's been highlighted in the games, so I thought it should be carried over. Didn't want to do a rage mechanic like Lucario, and Incineroar stole the idea of a counter move that increases the power of your next attack, so I got creative and tried to make the buffing specials as unique as possible.

Don't have much to say about Moonblast. Honestly, I just wanted Zacian to have a projectile move to compensate for it (presumably) being the largest swordfighter in Smash.
Rest isn't really comparable, it hits nigh-on instantly when successful, with long endlag rather than startup. By the time you're able to buy some for the charge on Laser Focus, probably by knocking the enemy far away, they're probably close enough to being KOed that you don't need the critical boost. Unless Zacian happens to have some good shield-breaking moves?

If you must have some floating swords in the moveset, why not tweak Swords Dance to how Scizor uses it in Pokken Tournament? Otherwise if you're afraid of people stigmatizing Zacian for playing like a swordie despite being a friggin' quadrupedal wolf, may as well just vouch for Zamazenta instead. I don't know where this solo Zacian mindset came from; if it's due to metagame performance, that has seldom ever been a factor in Smash inclusion.
 

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Rest isn't really comparable, it hits nigh-on instantly when successful, with long endlag rather than startup. By the time you're able to buy some for the charge on Laser Focus, probably by knocking the enemy far away, they're probably close enough to being KOed that you don't need the critical boost. Unless Zacian happens to have some good shield-breaking moves?

If you must have some floating swords in the moveset, why not tweak Swords Dance to how Scizor uses it in Pokken Tournament? Otherwise if you're afraid of people stigmatizing Zacian for playing like a swordie despite being a friggin' quadrupedal wolf, may as well just vouch for Zamazenta instead. I don't know where this solo Zacian mindset came from; if it's due to metagame performance, that has seldom ever been a factor in Smash inclusion.
Well, I'm open to suggestions. I plan on adding this to the first post along with one for Zamazenta, so I'd like input on how to make it better.

Still, I'm not sure I understand the issue with the aerials. Zacian will still play mostly like any other swordfighter. I just think we could do better than having it swing its sword for all of its tilts, aerials, and Smash attacks, especially since it's not your typical swordfighter. The ones I provided don't have to involve summoning a random sword, but I'd really like to see something more than, "Back aerial - Zacian quickly spins around to swing its sword behind itself."
 
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Well, I'm open to suggestions. I plan on adding this to the first post along with one for Zamazenta, so I'd like input on how to make it better.

Still, I'm not sure I understand the issue with the aerials. Zacian will still play mostly like any other swordfighter. I just think we could do better than having it swing its sword for all of its tilts, aerials, and Smash attacks, especially since it's not your typical swordfighter. The ones I provided don't have to involve summoning a random sword, but I'd really like to see something more than, "Back aerial - Zacian quickly spins around to swing its sword behind itself."
It's just... why carry a huge sword in your mouth if you're not even going to use it a lot? Random spirit swords alone don't seem any more interesting to look at than normal sword swings (has anyone ever complained about the Links using normal sword swings? I think you're looking at the anti-swordie stigma, mostly associated with the large number of Fire Emblem character + clones therein, the wrong way), and would probably make Zacian look oddly stiff in the air.

Again, I point to Pokken Scizor as an example. He is a physical fighter by nature and it shows in his moveset. When he conjures up swords with Swords Dance, it's rarely to just swing with them, instead he uses them to bolster and follow up on his normal moves, or optionally launch them as projectiles. Would this not be a unique way of buffing in Smash, while including the spirit swords if you really must have them? Zacian, too, is a physical fighter and it would probably be more in-character for it to assist it's own powerful swings with summoned swords, if anything.
 
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Regarding the swords appearing mid-air, I just wanted Zacian to have more visually interesting attacks. One complaint I have with sword characters is how the generic swings and slashes usually make up everything except the specials. Felt criminal to do the same thing with a Pokemon, and since Zacian is the literal representation of a sword, why not have it summon swords?

I didn't think three seconds was too unfair considering how it's a guaranteed critical hit if it connects. It's supposed to be a more versatile Rest.

I gave Zacian two buffing specials because that's exactly what SwSh emphasizes. It's sheer strength and ability to increase its power is what's been highlighted in the games, so I thought it should be carried over. Didn't want to do a rage mechanic like Lucario, and Incineroar stole the idea of a counter move that increases the power of your next attack, so I got creative and tried to make the buffing specials as unique as possible.

Don't have much to say about Moonblast. Honestly, I just wanted Zacian to have a projectile move to compensate for it (presumably) being the largest swordfighter in Smash.
That's understandable, as the anti swordfighter part of the community probably will be mad as heck otherwise.
 
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