The Legendary Heroes of Galar - Zacian and Zamazenta for Smash

Which would you rather see get in Smash as a newcomer?

  • Zacian

  • Zamazenta


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I'll have to watch more before I could tell you.

My initial feelings? Hopeful things turn out to be good, but somewhat disappointed. My main issue is that there doesn't seem to be an obvious plot to this series that'll advance the further we go. The nine or so episode titles we have so far seem to be really random "Region of the day" episodes that don't help Ash get any closer to his goal. Gao's maybe, but not Ash. Now it's not abnormal for a new series to start out slow, but it feels like the writers are hoping nostalgia and bringing back old Pokemon for an episode or two will be enough to keep viewers interested. Seems like most fans currently agree that it will, but I'm not so sure. Really hope they let Ash challenge the Galar league at some point. Otherwise, Gen 8 got shafted hard.

At least the continuity is still there.

View attachment 247058

Now Gao? He okay. As of now, he feels like a watered-down version of Ash. The chemistry between them is there, but they might mesh together a little too well. I'll have to wait and see how much he adds to the series.
Looking at the big picture though, wasn't it often stated the aggressive march of Pokemon media like this was coming at the detriment of main game development? A shift in focus could mean TPC is willing to be more flexible in what they market going forward.

And besides, it doesn't seem like the plot of Sword & Shield games offers enough substance to be the focus of a whole season. Whole game's pretty much a tournament arc, with relatively minimal outside factors or ulterior motives going in.
 

Cosmic77

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Looking at the big picture though, wasn't it often stated the aggressive march of Pokemon media like this was coming at the detriment of main game development? A shift in focus could mean TPC is willing to be more flexible in what they market going forward.

And besides, it doesn't seem like the plot of Sword & Shield games offers enough substance to be the focus of a whole season. Whole game's pretty much a tournament arc, with relatively minimal outside factors or ulterior motives going in.
I don't know, but I'm certain the anime is drastically changing more so because the ratings have been abysmal since the beginning of XY. The XY movie series dropped the ball pretty hard too. The new set of movies during SuMo did somewhat better, which might've inspired them to implement this change in the main series as well.

So we'll see. Right now, I think they're just trying to get their viewers back. I doubt the merch in the next three years will stray very far from Galar, Galar, and more Galar. If the anime does cause TPC to shift their attention to older Gens aside from Gen I, I'd be genuinely surprised.
 
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Main series manga's story is a lot more complex and character-driven than the games. Unfortunately it's also a heck of a lot more graphic, not extreme but certainly enough to not be called kid-friendly. Stuff like zombie Psyduck, White (female gen 5 trainer) falling from up high on a ferris wheel and getting hospitalized, breaking off a Sharpedo's teeth to use as a cutting tool...
 
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fogbadge

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Main series manga's story is a lot more complex and character-driven than the games. Unfortunately it's also a heck of a lot more graphic, not extreme but certainly enough to not be called kid-friendly. Stuff like zombie Psyduck, White (female gen 5 trainer) falling from up high on a ferris wheel and getting hospitalized, breaking off a Sharpedo's teeth to use as a cutting tool...
oh adventures/special, im not sure it is the main manga series (not sure there is one) i mean i think it might be the one with the clefairy as because of it clefairy was nearly the mascot, anime changed that of course, may need to double check that

adventures is the best one though id say
 

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I'm putting this in spoilers because it could spoil the number of Pokemon in SwSh, but here's something cool about Zacian you might've not known.

Zacian's National Dex number is 888.

Also, I'll need help creating a moveset for Zacian, if anyone would like to participate. Now that SwSh is out, I figured we should start making our case for the doggos in case other Pokemon start taking off. That or Sakurai reveals a first-party character sometime soon. Then things will REALLY heat up. I heard Zacian is currently considered to be the best Pokemon in the game, followed by Zamazenta. Let's see if that means anything going forward.

Anyway, here's a full list of moves Zacian and Zamazenta can learn if anyone needed a reference.

- [01] Sacred Sword

- [01] Quick Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Swords Dance

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM12] Solar Blade

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM43] Brick Break

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM58] Assurance

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM69] Psycho Cut

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

- [TM94] False Swipe

- [TM95] Air Slash

- [TM97] Brutal Swing

TRs:

- [TR00] Swords Dance

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs

- [01] Metal Burst

- [01] Wide Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Iron Defense

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM11] Solar Beam

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM17] Light Screen

- [TM18] Reflect

- [TM19] Safeguard

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM57] Payback

- [TM60] Power Swap

- [TM61] Guard Swap

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

TRs:

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR46] Iron Defense

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR70] Flash Cannon

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR92] Dazzling Gleam

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs
 
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LukeRNG

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I'm putting this in spoilers because it could spoil the number of Pokemon in SwSh, but here's something cool about Zacian you might've not known.

Zacian's National Dex number is 888.

Also, I'll need help creating a moveset for Zacian, if anyone would like to participate. Now that SwSh is out, I figured we should start making our case for the doggos in case other Pokemon start taking off. That or Sakurai reveals a first-party character sometime soon. Then things will REALLY heat up. I heard Zacian is currently considered to be the best Pokemon in the game, followed by Zamazenta. Let's see if that means anything going forward.

Anyway, here's a full list of moves Zacian and Zamazenta can learn if anyone needed a reference.

- [01] Sacred Sword

- [01] Quick Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Swords Dance

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM12] Solar Blade

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM43] Brick Break

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM58] Assurance

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM69] Psycho Cut

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

- [TM94] False Swipe

- [TM95] Air Slash

- [TM97] Brutal Swing

TRs:

- [TR00] Swords Dance

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs

- [01] Metal Burst

- [01] Wide Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Iron Defense

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM11] Solar Beam

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM17] Light Screen

- [TM18] Reflect

- [TM19] Safeguard

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM57] Payback

- [TM60] Power Swap

- [TM61] Guard Swap

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

TRs:

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR46] Iron Defense

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR70] Flash Cannon

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR92] Dazzling Gleam

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs
Would their armorless (Hero of many battles) forms be their default or would they always remain in their armor?
 
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I'm putting this in spoilers because it could spoil the number of Pokemon in SwSh, but here's something cool about Zacian you might've not known.

Zacian's National Dex number is 888.

Also, I'll need help creating a moveset for Zacian, if anyone would like to participate. Now that SwSh is out, I figured we should start making our case for the doggos in case other Pokemon start taking off. That or Sakurai reveals a first-party character sometime soon. Then things will REALLY heat up. I heard Zacian is currently considered to be the best Pokemon in the game, followed by Zamazenta. Let's see if that means anything going forward.

Anyway, here's a full list of moves Zacian and Zamazenta can learn if anyone needed a reference.

- [01] Sacred Sword

- [01] Quick Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Swords Dance

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM12] Solar Blade

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM43] Brick Break

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM58] Assurance

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM69] Psycho Cut

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

- [TM94] False Swipe

- [TM95] Air Slash

- [TM97] Brutal Swing

TRs:

- [TR00] Swords Dance

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs

- [01] Metal Burst

- [01] Wide Guard

- [01] Metal Claw

- [01] Howl

- [01] Quick Attack

- [01] Bite

- [11] Slash

- [22] Iron Defense

- [33] Iron Head

- [44] Laser Focus

- [55] Crunch

- [66] Moonblast

- [77] Close Combat

- [88] Giga Impact

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam

- [TM09] Giga Impact

- [TM11] Solar Beam

- [TM15] Dig

- [TM17] Light Screen

- [TM18] Reflect

- [TM19] Safeguard

- [TM21] Rest

- [TM24] Snore

- [TM25] Protect

- [TM26] Scary Face

- [TM39] Facade

- [TM40] Swift

- [TM41] Helping Hand

- [TM42] Revenge

- [TM44] Imprison

- [TM57] Payback

- [TM60] Power Swap

- [TM61] Guard Swap

- [TM66] Thunder Fang

- [TM67] Ice Fang

- [TM68] Fire Fang

- [TM76] Round

- [TM79] Retaliate

- [TM84] Tail Slap

- [TM85] Snarl

TRs:

- [TR12] Agility

- [TR13] Focus Energy

- [TR20] Substitute

- [TR21] Reversal

- [TR26] Endure

- [TR27] Sleep Talk

- [TR31] Iron Tail

- [TR32] Crunch

- [TR42] Hyper Voice

- [TR46] Iron Defense

- [TR53] Close Combat

- [TR64] Focus Blast

- [TR70] Flash Cannon

- [TR74] Iron Head

- [TR85] Work Up

- [TR86] Wild Charge

- [TR90] Play Rough

- [TR92] Dazzling Gleam

- [TR97] Psychic Fangs
One thing you could do to narrow things down is focus on the moves exclusive to each.

I see them working as tag-team switching with down special like Trainer, because let's face it, even their lore paints them as pretty inseparable normally. As a nod to their abilities, they gain a small, temporary boost to offence and defence respectively whenever swapping in.

Both are pretty fast on the ground, but Zacian is far more so in the air where Zamazenta is slow and can't jump too well. Conversely Zacian is very light and easily KOed and Zamazenta is very heavy.

Zacian specials include Swords Dance to boost attack even further at the expense of defence for neutral, Play Rough as a rushing side grab, and Sacred Sword as a Dolphin Slash like up special.

Zamazenta neutral is Metal Burst, a unique counter that can be held indefinitely until success, grab or release and hits all around, but with much less force than a typical counter and still taking some damage. Close Combat as a side special like Onslaught that is very powerful, but punishable on shield, and Iron Head that leaps before crashing down. Zamazenta also auto-blocks frontal projectiles when idle or crouching, has a tougher than normal shield and has invulnerable properties on a number of moves like Palutena.
 

Delzethin

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Made it through the fourth Gym overnight. Still a while to go before I'll be able to see the legendaries in action in full, I imagine.

I blame Ash, lol. Make the anime about the game protags or just adapt the manga's story. Though I guess it wouldn't work because then Pikachu wouldn't be in every single episode for marketing for toys and such.
Hey now, credit where credit is due, they've done a better job with Ash since the earlier regions, especially from Kalos onward. The buffoon who damn near lucked his way into half his important wins that we saw when we were kids has developed into a legitimately competent trainer with a talent for improvising strategies and thinking outside the box.
 
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fogbadge

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Hey now, credit where credit is due, they've done a better job with Ash since the earlier regions, especially from Kalos onward. The buffoon who damn near lucked his way into half his important wins that we saw when we were kids has developed into a legitimately competent trainer with a talent for improvising strategies and thinking outside the box.
yeah ash is way better than he was at the start, its just one of the sidekicks i dont like, but only gens 3, 6 & 7 have someone like that
 

Guynamednelson

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Well, at least Sirfetch'd didn't get deconfirmed.
 

Cosmic77

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Well, at least Sirfetch'd didn't get deconfirmed.
Well, that's not encouraging. Still, there's a small bit of good news. There's only four Spirits being added in this event, meaning that Zacian and Zamazenta might not be one of them.

It's still a huge blow regardless, but at least it doesn't kill our chances completely just yet.
 
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Guynamednelson

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There's only four Spirits being added in this event, meaning that Zacian and Zamazenta might not be one of them.
Judging by the artwork, I'd think it'd be:
  • Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble
  • Corviknight
  • Morpeko
  • Zacian and Zamazenta
Because I can't imagine any other way they would make 4 spirits out of all those Pokemon. Sorry that you just get a Wolf with a Killing Edge and another Wolf who shields a lot.
 

Cosmic77

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Judging by the artwork, I'd think it'd be:
  • Grookey, Scorbunny, and Sobble
  • Corviknight
  • Morpeko
  • Zacian and Zamazenta
Because I can't imagine any other way they would make 4 spirits out of all those Pokemon. Sorry that you just get a Wolf with a Killing Edge and another Wolf who shields a lot.
We'll have to see. I don't see the point in randomly combining separate artwork of individual Pokemon to make a single Spirit, especially when other starters and Legendaries weren't handled this way.
 

RandomAce

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Kind of a shame, I was looking forward to potentially seeing Zacian.

Well, tbh, while I don’t think a Gen 8 Pokémon coming in the near future, I could still see one being considered later down the road. Pokémon is still big, and there other Galar spirits that could be added.
 
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We'll have to see. I don't see the point in randomly combining separate artwork of individual Pokemon to make a single Spirit, especially when other starters and Legendaries weren't handled this way.
About that...
Looks like starters and legendaries will be combined this time around.
 
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Kind of a shame, I was looking forward to potentially seeing Zacian.

Well, tbh, while I don’t think a Gen 8 Pokémon coming in the near future, I could still see one being considered later down the road. Pokémon is still big, and there other Galar spirits that could be added.
I see spirits as more future-proofing than any ironclad (lack of) plan. Like the Mewtwo & Lucas trophies in Smash 4, the most you can say about is they are indicative of no immediate plan of including them at the time of development, if that. Nothing stopping them from pulling a Cloud or Robin and only include the Smash render for the fighter spirit if no other alternative art is available. But if the plans just don't shake out that way, you'll at least have something representing them in the game.
 
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I see spirits as more future-proofing than any ironclad (lack of) plan. Like the Mewtwo & Lucas trophies in Smash 4, the most you can say about is they are indicative of no immediate plan of including them at the time of development, if that. Nothing stopping them from pulling a Cloud or Robin and only include the Smash render for the fighter spirit if no other alternative art is available.
Mewtwo's trophies, Lucas' trophy+inspiration for Ness' customs, and Marth's Roy palettes were all base game content that didn't stop them from becoming DLC. However, look at what the Inkling got in terms of Smash 4 DLC: A Mii costume and a trophy released alongside Lucas/Roy/Ryu, and no DLC fighter later on. It seems post-release content is a bigger concern that base game content.
 
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Cosmic77

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I still stand by my belief that DLC Spirits are close to being a soft deconfirmation of characters, and I certainly don't want a Gen 8 Pokemon become the next "The K. Rool Mii Costume doesn't deconfirm him" argument.

With all that said, it's kinda hard to say where I stand with all this. Even if a Gen VIII Pokemon was the first character post-pass, that would still be several months away from November, and this is clearly an advertisement for SwSh. Any potential Gen VIII Pokemon would not be a promotional pick, contrary to popular opinions.

And then there's Zacian and Zamazenta being combined into one Spirit as opposed to one each. If either were to get in as a fighter, all Sakurai would have to do is use their boxart pics or any other existing artwork of the two, just like he would with any other character who has a Spirit in the base game. He wouldn't even have to rename anything since the official name of the Spirit is "Zacian and Zamazenta".

For now, this just feels like standard promotional material for a new game. It might mean something going forward, but I wouldn't take it to heart just yet.

About that...
Looks like starters and legendaries will be combined this time around.
I don't see why they couldn't have just separated them and gave them each their own Spirit, but oh well. Guess it's better than nothing.
 
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I suppose the negotiations with Sugimori for the artwork was pretty tough as it is, let alone to keep the legendaries separate. It's more convenient anyways.

Mewtwo's trophies, Lucas' trophy+inspiration for Ness' customs, and Marth's Roy palettes were all base game content that didn't stop them from becoming DLC. However, look at what the Inkling got in terms of Smash 4 DLC: A Mii costume and a trophy released alongside Lucas/Roy/Ryu, and no DLC fighter later on. It seems post-release content is a bigger concern that base game content.
Also, Smash has a habit of only adding a character from one Gen per game. Two gens if you're lucky. :ultpokemontrainer::ultlucario:

I'll accept that we won't get anything from Gen 8 until Smash 6 now. It was a nice thought while it lasted, but it's time to move on to other things.

Unfortunately, there are still people that genuinely blindly believe that ALL spirits deconfirm (not just DLC ones), so we're still back at square one until someone comes along that smashes that misconception permanently.
 
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Mewtwo's trophies, Lucas' trophy+inspiration for Ness' customs, and Marth's Roy palettes were all base game content that didn't stop them from becoming DLC. However, look at what the Inkling got in terms of Smash 4 DLC: A Mii costume and a trophy released alongside Lucas/Roy/Ryu, and no DLC fighter later on. It seems post-release content is a bigger concern that base game content.
A point in common that Inkling had with these Pokemon was just being too darn new to implement fully and in a satisfying degree at the time. Inking opponents for extra damage and all those fisticuffs that aren't standard in Splatoon can't have been stuff come up with overnight. Not to mention Ultimate started development much earlier than anyone anticipated.

I suppose the negotiations with Sugimori for the artwork was pretty tough as it is, let alone to keep the legendaries separate. It's more convenient anyways.


Also, Smash has a habit of only adding a character from one Gen per game. Two gens if you're lucky. :ultpokemontrainer::ultlucario:

I'll accept that we won't get anything from Gen 8 until Smash 6 now. It was a nice thought while it lasted, but it's time to move on to other things.

Unfortunately, there are still people that genuinely blindly believe that ALL spirits deconfirm (not just DLC ones), so we're still back at square one until someone comes along that smashes that misconception permanently.
I'm not even mad. Since we don't a Greninja-like Pokemon made specifically for Smash like last time, this will let people settle on favourites in time, and there are arguably more pressing additions in the first-party department that need addressing first.
 

Guynamednelson

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Also, Smash has a habit of only adding a character from one Gen per game. Two gens if you're lucky. :ultpokemontrainer::ultlucario:
That pattern only started with Smash 4, and with both it and Ultimate, the only reason why Pokemon got one newcomer is because one had the biggest focus on adding more series and the other had limited newcomer resources.
 

Zeb Nasaki

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Remenber that Pokemon has many other spirits that could come in a spirit board if a gen VIII pokemon is coming, like the three final evolutions of the starters or some trainers. I do not personally think this deconfirms a rep, but it seriously hurt the chances that it could be zacian or zamazenta.
 

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If anything, this may be evidence that Gen 8 wasn't an option to pull a character from when they started narrowing down things for Season 2, or however far into Season 2 they planned. This was a way of giving Sword & Shield some kind of content just in case they don't get the chance to bring in a playable fighter in the long run.

In practice, while it doesn't directly rule them out, since we still don't know if spirits are eligible or not...it does mean the chances of anyone from Gen 8 rely on things going for longer previously anticipated.

And also makes the lack of spirits from Astral Chain or Fire Emblem: Three Houses awfully suspicious, but that's a different topic.
 

Guynamednelson

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If anything, this may be evidence that Gen 8 wasn't an option to pull a character from when they started narrowing down things for Season 2, or however far into Season 2 they planned. This was a way of giving Sword & Shield some kind of content just in case they don't get the chance to bring in a playable fighter in the long run.

In practice, while it doesn't directly rule them out, since we still don't know if spirits are eligible or not...it does mean the chances of anyone from Gen 8 rely on things going for longer previously anticipated.

And also makes the lack of spirits from Astral Chain or Fire Emblem: Three Houses awfully suspicious, but that's a different topic.
Thankfully a certain other wolf has yet to be a spirit...
 

Cosmic77

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After letting it roll around in my head for a bit, here's my take.

For starters, I think people need to stop taking the presence or absence of Spirits for new games so seriously, and that goes for myself as well. People are quick to point out how suspicious it is that Three Houses and Astral Chain have nothing, but they tend to forget that other notable games that likely won't be netting a newcomer any time soon didn't receive any Spirits either, such as Yoshi's Crafted World, Mario Maker 2, and Luigi's Mansion 3. There's not really any noticeable pattern in how they're choosing these Spirits, and it seems like Nintendo picks and chooses whatever the heck it feels like advertising. This ranges from Tetris and Daemon X Machina to Link's Awakening and SwSh.

Second, no, I do not think this deconfirms a Gen 8 rep. I'm not even sure it's as lethal to Zacian and Zamazenta's chances as we initially thought it was. The entire purpose of these new Spirits was to promote the release of SwSh, and the Tweet that brought us the announcement practically says just that. The popular belief is that any franchise/game that has a chance of getting a newcomer would have its Spirits held off until the associated character released. The only problem with this belief is that it doesn't really make sense if Nintendo wishes to promote these games. What good does it do to save every SwSh Spirit for the release of a new character if the earliest possible time that character could get added is four months after their games launched? It would still promote the games, yes, but it's not nearly as effective as releasing them close to launch.

As for Zacian and Zamazenta, all I'm gonna say is that they along with the starters are the most recognizable faces of Gen VIII. Any kind of Spirit event focusing on SwSh was bound to have the starters, and the boxart Legendaries are a close second. It's not that surprising seeing them here. As always, it depends on whether or not you think Spirits fully deconfirm a character.



I could be wrong, but this doesn't feel like a compensation for possibly not getting SwSh content in Ultimate. This feels like more of a quick ad for a new game, and that's exactly how I'm going to interpret it for now. I'm not giving up just yet, and if you're someone who truly wants one or even both of these Legendaries in Smash, then I would implore you to keep supporting them. Giving up only ensures that the dream never comes true.

The timing of all this is a bit of a bummer, as we were just about to start discussing these two more seriously. Regardless, I hope there's still plenty of you left who are interested in sharing ideas and other concepts related to Zacian and Zamazenta.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Yoshi's Crafted World, and Luigi's Mansion 3
To be fair, we already have them promoted in the game via default Yoshi with a ****ty bumpmap-I mean a Crafted World costume, and Luigi using his new Poltergust to grab. And who knows, maybe these post-pass fighters won't have spirit boards, and the use of Sugimori art will help distinguish the fighter and non-fighter spirits.
 
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fogbadge

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Well, at least Sirfetch'd didn't get deconfirmed.
i dont think any of them we deconfirmed
 

Staarih

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I’m still conflicted as to where I stand with spirits (do they deconfirm or not). So far I’ve been in the boat that they do hinder the chances of becoming playable, maybe even more so when they’re added post-base game, so it does feel like a bit of a bummer to see Zacian/Zamazenta getting one now, especially after getting more and more invested with them getting in as playable characters. They seem like an obvious choice for Gen 8, as there doesn’t seem to be a Lucario/Greninja-esque Pokémon this time around. Oh well, imma still gonna keep supporting, but keep my expectations in check.
 
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As far as I can see, base game content mostly wouldn't be affected much. DLC content is where character chances get drastically reduced if they make some sort of DLC cameo. Just ask any :ultinkling: fans at the timeframe of 4.

Also, I'm not about to go through the Seven Stages of Grief here, so I wish you all a good day.
 
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Cosmic77

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As far as I can see, base game content mostly wouldn't be affected much. DLC content is where character chances get drastically reduced if they make some sort of DLC cameo. Just ask any :ultinkling: fans at the timeframe of 4.

Also, I'm not about to go through the Seven Stages of Grief here, so I wish you all a good day.
I think someone already pointed it out, but Inkling isn't really the best example. If Sakurai knew Smash 4 would be his last Smash game in a while, he might've tried harder to get them in, but DLC would've been a really crummy start for Splatoon. The resulting character would've been rushed as heck and definitely wouldn't have the ink mechanics working properly.

Splatoon really deserved a proper welcome, which is probably why it was the franchise used to tease Ultimate back when it was first revealed.
 
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I still stand by my belief that DLC Spirits are close to being a soft deconfirmation of characters, and I certainly don't want a Gen 8 Pokemon become the next "The K. Rool Mii Costume doesn't deconfirm him" argument.

With all that said, it's kinda hard to say where I stand with all this. Even if a Gen VIII Pokemon was the first character post-pass, that would still be several months away from November, and this is clearly an advertisement for SwSh. Any potential Gen VIII Pokemon would not be a promotional pick, contrary to popular opinions.

And then there's Zacian and Zamazenta being combined into one Spirit as opposed to one each. If either were to get in as a fighter, all Sakurai would have to do is use their boxart pics or any other existing artwork of the two, just like he would with any other character who has a Spirit in the base game. He wouldn't even have to rename anything since the official name of the Spirit is "Zacian and Zamazenta".

For now, this just feels like standard promotional material for a new game. It might mean something going forward, but I wouldn't take it to heart just yet.



I don't see why they couldn't have just separated them and gave them each their own Spirit, but oh well. Guess it's better than nothing.
I still stand by my belief that the two, if made playable in any way, will not be kept separate. They're very unlike the box legendary pairs we've up to this point that either have little to do with one another aside from a role, or were actually bitter rivals.

Eternamax Eternatus is fought with you and Hop using the wolves together, something that's never happened before in a Pokemon game.
 
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Cosmic77

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I still stand by my belief that the two, if made playable in any way, will not be kept separate. They're very unlike the box legendary pairs we've up to this point that either have little to do with one another aside from a role, or were actually bitter rivals.

Eternamax Eternatus is fought with you and Hop using the wolves together, something that's never happened before in a Pokemon game.
It could go either way. Even if the two are often seen together, one is slightly more important than the other depending on which version you choose. I always thought they were very similar to starters, only the change can't be controlled by the player in both versions.

I'd prefer both though. A character that switches between offense and defense would be very unique.
 

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I could be wrong, but this doesn't feel like a compensation for possibly not getting SwSh content in Ultimate. This feels like more of a quick ad for a new game, and that's exactly how I'm going to interpret it for now. I'm not giving up just yet, and if you're someone who truly wants one or even both of these Legendaries in Smash, then I would implore you to keep supporting them. Giving up only ensures that the dream never comes true.

The timing of all this is a bit of a bummer, as we were just about to start discussing these two more seriously. Regardless, I hope there's still plenty of you left who are interested in sharing ideas and other concepts related to Zacian and Zamazenta.
Yeah, I don't think this is a hard deconfirm given the overall context. What I do think it means is that a Gen 8 character probably wasn't locked in at the time these spirit events were planned out, and so if a Gen 8 newcomer happens then it won't be until after the first wave of post-Pass characters, however many they are. Could be just two or three, could be a whole set of five--we know Joker, Hero, and Banjo were all part of the same development wave, but that's our only precedent there. It all depends on when they greenlit post-Pass content, when they started locking in post-Pass characters, how far ahead of time these spirit events are planned, how many post-Pass characters started development simultaneously, and whether spirits are eligible or not. These are all things that we...have no way of knowing at the moment.

Either way, no reason to pack up and go home yet. If it was, the Isaac thread wouldn't still be so constantly active despite being in a much trickier position.
 

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We really need to see what kinds of characters we'll get after fighter #5 so we can get a better idea as to what to expect for future dlc.
For all we now, the dlc might still remain 3rd party.
Though i agree that some 1st party series really are overdue for a new character that isn't a 3rd version of an existing character.
 

Cosmic77

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We really need to see what kinds of characters we'll get after fighter #5 so we can get a better idea as to what to expect for future dlc.
For all we now, the dlc might still remain 3rd party.
Though i agree that some 1st party series really are overdue for a new character that isn't a 3rd version of an existing character.
Practically any first-party character would make speculation more interesting. We'd potentially get answers to questions we've been asking for over a year now.

Are ATs fair game?
Do Spirits deconfirm a character?
How far ahead is Sakurai looking ahead when choosing these characters?
Are we only getting characters from new franchises?

Third-parties are hardly any help at answering these questions, especially since none of the current 4 DLC characters ever had any content in Smash prior to their character being added.
 
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