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The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (USE SPOILER TAGS)

ChRed2AKrisp

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i had an n64, and i loved the games, but i didn't buy a cube for about a year and a half after it came out.

so no, not everyone buys a new systemthe instant it comes out for the sole reason that its come out. Its an incentive the buy the REv sooner rather than later.

If you buy the rev sooner, you'll most likely end up buying more games for it. If you buy it later you'll probably just get the newer games and borrow older ones from friends or rent them, or not play them at all.

I wouldn't enjoy the feeling of playing TP, but knowing i could play it Rev style. I definately won't be hanging around for a year and then buying a Rev. And this is part of the reason. So I'd definately say theres an incentive.
 

Chill

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If TP controls just like the GC ,as you said, where's the incentive?

That's fine if you still want to buy TP despite the delay. I'm just saying why the delay has lessened my interest in it.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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You're not getting it. I mean the mechanics will be the same as it, things that involve direct motion like, swing you're sword in different ways, will have to rely on buttons.

For instance if there was a command in a Rev game the involved a button and how you moved the Rev controller, such as swing forward while twisting the controller, you can't replicate that on the cube. BUt you can rework the cube structure, such as at its most basic replacing the analog stick with the rev control.

Even if it was something as basic as that(which it very well could be) i'd still like playing like that more than moving a stick with my thumb.
 

Eor

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That really blows, because I seriously doubt that I am getting a revolution. I always hated those GBA connections to Gamecube things. I don't really want to go out and buy a new system so I can fully play a game on another.
 

Zink

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you know there ARE other reasons to buy a Rev... And those connections were great. Mostly they just unlocked concept art. No new gameplay or anything.
 

Eor

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Zink said:
you know there ARE other reasons to buy a Rev... And those connections were great. Mostly they just unlocked concept art. No new gameplay or anything.
What about the entire tingle-connection thing in wind waker?

If they are delaying the game so that it has features on the new system, then I am pretty sure the new features are more then concept art.
 

ChRed2AKrisp

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they're just an alternative method of controlling the game.

you'll still get full access to everything i'm sure.

Its not like they're subtracting anything from the GC, so you cubers won't get anything less than you were going to get before. they're just extra control method and maybe a couple items or minigames or something for the people who buy the Rev. Just stop complaining already.
 

The rAt

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First of all, I'd like to know where you're getting all of this inside information on exactly what the Revolution controller compatability entails, ChRed2AKrisp. The fact of the matter is, we don't know exactly what Nintendo is planning to do with this new feature, we can only speculate. If you believe that Zelda will retain its original gameplay style on the Revolution Controller, then I respect that oppinion, but I simply don't see how it is possible.

If we were simply talking about movement with the new controller, then I would suggest that there will be difficulties, but I am certain Nintendo will find a way to overcome them without altering the core gameplay. However, what I am refering to is not moving the character, but managing your inventory, attacking with your sword, talking to characters, roll-attacking, using your sheild, manipulating the camera, and any other new functions, which I do not see as possible with the TWO buttons on the Rev controller (A button and B trigger). Even if you count the D-pad, you still don't have enough, and the a and b buttons are clearly not reachable by thumb. There simply aren't enough buttons. That said, Nintendo has two options on how to deal with this discrepency; they can either change the core gameplay not to include these functions, which could potentially ruin the game, or they can invent and impliment a new system for performing such functions when using the Revolution controller, which is what I was referring to in my earlier post, a system for performing such functions which, regaurdless of Nintendo's current intentions would inevitably be re-used in the next Zelda game on the Revolution. Thunder still stolen.

I'm not saying that Nintendo CAN'T include this feature without choosing between ruining this game or effectively dulling down any possible innovation the next game, I'm saying that given what I know of Nintendo, they most likely WILL do so.

As far as the marketing aspects go, who the heck is going to buy a Revolution to play Twillight Princess, which they can get on the Gamecube, with a different controller, and then wait for two years for another decent game to come out. After two years (?) of waiting, nobody is going to buy Twillight Princess besides Nintendo fanboys and Gamecube owners, the former of which will already be buying Revolutions, the later of which will most likely already not going to be buying Revolutions. The only Nintendo has accomplished with this new feature is discourage people from buying their software, because nobody wants to wait that long for one single game. An excellent example of this is my roommate, who is an X-box fan who bought a Cube when he heard about Twillight Princess. After two years, he's selling his Cube, and refusing to even look at the Revolution, let alone purchase one to play Twillight Princess, which he is no longer intending to buy because of the long delays.

Truth is, you are right, Nintendo fans should expect delays. The issue isn't with people who are already planning on buying the Rev, its actually getting new customers, which is how a business grows. That's why Nintendo isn't going to win back any of the customers they've already lost to Microsoft and Sony, because everyone knows they'll have to wait years for a decent game, so why bother with the hardware? That's also why they'll continue to lose customers unless they change their strategy. None of this bothers me. What bothers me is that all of this bother could have been avoided if Nintendo could learn to wait until a game is close to completion to announce it.

This is my oppinion, and if you disagree with it, more power to you. If you can come up with a good reason why you think I'm wrong, all the better. But don't demean me as though you've got all the answers and I'm simply stupid for not seeing things your way.

End of Rant V 2.0

The fact is I'm not condeming Nintendo for making poor choices. It just bothers me when people don't respect my distaste for their poor choices. Later all.

Andy
 

Zink

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Forlingas- as ChRed stated, that wasn't too huge of a thing.
rAt- i see where you are going with your arguements, but I think you may be overestimating results. For one thing, TP is one game, and it is not going to make or break the Rev. Also it is not true that you always have to wait years for a good game. There have been several great games released since TP was announced and delayed- it is not the only game people want. I don't think many people would buy a system for one game anyway. The Rev has several other feaures going for it, not just TP connectivity.
I think many people will buy TP regardless of delay. Look at Halo 2- mega hype, lots of delay, and then a really stripped dwon game from what was expected and it still topped charts.
Everyone knows you won't have to wait years for a decent game. It's just THIS game which is taking so long.
 

Chill

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ChRed2AKrisp said:
You're not getting it. I mean the mechanics will be the same as it, things that involve direct motion like, swing you're sword in different ways, will have to rely on buttons.
You're not getting it. Wether TP has alot of control via the Revmote or alittle control with the Revmote doesn't matter to me. The delay and the reason for it has made me lose alot of interest in this game.

Rat, I'm taking your quote.
The fact is I'm not condeming Nintendo for making poor choices. It just bothers me when people don't respect my distaste for their poor choices.
 

Mic_128

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ChRed2AKrisp said:
they're just an alternative method of controlling the game.
And that's why we're all peeved about waiting another 6 months.
 

Zink

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Chill I see why you are mad, but I don't quite agree with you. Maybe it's just me. When a game I like gets delayed I kinda file away my interest for a while. But I can easily see not wanting to buy the game anymore.
 

kaid

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Compare this to Halo 2. Halo 2 was ultra-hyped, but Bungie was rushed by MS and fans were dissapointed. It seens Nintendo is trying to err on the side of caution, pushing back the game until the programmers are truly happy with their work. (note, programmers are NEVER truly happy with their work)

While this ensures that people like Chill are mad and storm off, Nintendo is counting on the final product to be so incredible that people without GCs will buy them secondhand just to play this game- And if someone wants a "next-gen" Zelda game, all they have to do is pitch in $200-$250 for a Rev, and also get the ability to play Smash Rev, Mario 128, Sonic Rev, Raid over the River, Sadness, Metroid Prime 3, and many others.
 

Eor

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I lost interest in Gamecube a long time ago. I can't even remember what was the last gamecube game I bought before Resident Evil 4, but I think it was Soul Caliber 2. Since the game was announced, it was the only game that I was looking forward to. I've written the gamecube off on my list. I think the Rev features are cool, but I don't think I will get one. I'm not angry that the game was pushed back, I'm angry because I am going to need to buy a Rev to enjoy the full features of the game. Since I'm not buying a Rev, I wont be getting the full game. Unless I missed something and they said what they were adding specifically, I doubt that they are delaying a game just so they can add in a little mini game.
 

Bedi Vegeta

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ChRed2AKrisp said:
they're just an alternative method of controlling the game.

you'll still get full access to everything i'm sure.

Its not like they're subtracting anything from the GC, so you cubers won't get anything less than you were going to get before. they're just extra control method and maybe a couple items or minigames or something for the people who buy the Rev. Just stop complaining already.
Stop complaining? There is a very very large gap in your arguments. About the size of six months. Delaying a game for that long, especially when it has already been delayed for an additional six months, is not acceptable if the end result of that delay is, and I quote, "just extra control method and maybe a couple items or minigames or something for the people who buy the Rev."

If this is the reason for the additional delay, which seems very likely, then it is a very big deal.

Also, you seem to be missing some very good points mentioned earlier, that DO in fact sound like bad reasons to add Revolution functionality. Since you don't seem to be getting it, try reading them out loud and recording them on tape, then playing them to yourself when you are sleeping.

I also just realised that the people before me have basically just said a lot of this. Well here it is again.
 

kaid

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6 months for an entire new system to play the exact same game- Would you buy Twilight Princess for GC now, and then buy it again for the Rev in 6 months, even if you're playing it completely differently? They are trying to make Twilight Princess the penultimate "Zelda Killer," so that NOTHING can steal that title. if they tried to make a LoZ Revolution, and it wasn't half as detailed as Twilight princess, would you be disapointed? This way, they merge the two games, using the Twilight Princess story, dungions, ect, under two different engines. One the traditional LoZ setup, the other the promised "Link swinging his sword."

I hope that's comprehendable.

What I guess I'm trying to say is the Rev Compatability will use a completely different engine to play, but won't eliminate anything from the GC version.
 

Eor

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They aren't remaking the game for rev completley, if that is what you are trying to say.
 

Eor

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How do you know they aren't rewiting Link out of the game? Common sence.

They said that they are adding Revolution capabilites, not rewriting the entire game for Revolution.
 

Bedi Vegeta

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kaid said:
the other the promised "Link swinging his sword."
That was never actually promised. In the revolution video, it demonstrates somebody swinging the controller like a sword, and Nintendo have said that the next Zelda (AFTER TP) will be different, but the rest has just been speculation.

And another reason why I don't want this is that I don't actually want a different Zelda game. We were promised a realistic style Zelda game for the Gamecube, and from the time when I saw the first video, that's exactly what I have been looking forward to, and nothing else. This is the main game I have been anticipating since it was announced, and I was even holding back from buying other games until I got it. Sure, a different Zelda game will be fine on the Revolution, but right now, I want what I was told I would get: my last fix of the standard 3D Zelda, and without any other screwy gimmicks.
 

kaid

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Eorlingas said:
How do you know they aren't rewiting Link out of the game? Common sence.

They said that they are adding Revolution capabilites, not rewriting the entire game for Revolution.
Then why, as the detractors have mentioned, is it taking SIX MONTHS!

Halo 2 was made completely in, what, 9-11 months? With TP(Rev), they don't need any actual new story or gameplay- they can spend all their time on the engine.
 

Eor

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kaid said:
Then why, as the detractors have mentioned, is it taking SIX MONTHS!

Halo 2 was made completely in, what, 9-11 months? With TP(Rev), they don't need any actual new story or gameplay- they can spend all their time on the engine.
Halo 2 took over two years.

Changing the engine is about the hardest thing for a video game.
 

The rAt

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Chill, feel free to quote me any time.

kaid, I see what your trying to say about games being delayed and such, but in clarification, my problem is less with Nintendo for delaying Twillight Princess, as with Nintendo for announcing a game which would inevitably need to be delayed. Nintendo wants to add Rev features to Zelda? I think its a poor choice, but I've been wrong before, so I'll buy that, but that decision should have been made before they announced the game and taken into account when planning their marketing strategy. It only bothers me because I know about the game, and if they hadn't planned poorly and told me about it a long flipping time before they were going to release it, then I'd be happily anticipating some other game. And when the decision of whether or not it was worth delaying the game over such features came up, the results of such a decision on the hype they had already prematurely instigated should have been considered, and by all appearances they did not.

Thing is I'm a fan of the Zelda series. That's the only reason I'm talking about this right now, because I gaurentee you that no one who was not already familiar with the Zelda series before Twillight Princess was announced has more than a vague recollection of its existence. And if there is one thing I hate about corporations which deal in products which have an established fanbase, it is when they take a dump on their loyalty to said corporation's products. Its just plain bad business.

So, while I have suggested that these new features may be harmful to the core gameplay of the game itself, as well killing any anticipation for future Zelda games, I am open to the possibility that I am wrong. However, any possibility of detriment done by these new features is dwarfed by the detriment done by the delay which made them possible.

In any case, kaid, as I have said before (or at least meant to and am too lazy to double check, hence why I am repeating myself), while I do not agree with your predictions regaurding this game, I certainly respect the position which you are coming from.

In one thing I think we can all agree, and that is the hope that this game meets and exceeds all of our expectations. Until next time.

Andy
 

kaid

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Razor Hawk (I think, either him or someone else w/ the same avatar) mentioned (and backed up with facts) the claim that only the last year or so was Bungie actually doing anything. The Playable Demo at E3? scrapped. The trailer with Earth in flames? oops, we'll save that for Halo 3.
 

supermariopro101

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Because he'll have to spend about 400 dollars if he wants it when it first comes out. Personally, I think they should have made TP for the gamecube only. I'm sure it was fine the way it is and a zelda game has never disappointed me. I can understand 6 months maybe but not 12! As others have said, this has made me lose a little intrest in it. They really don't have any competition regardless if its for the rev or not because of SSBR. Nintendo must think the playstation 3 will give it a run for its money but delaying one game will not help its cause.
I feel as nintendo grows older, less games are made for a system.Note: (These are estimates and therefore should not be considered perfect) NES-about 9 years SNES-about 8 years N64-about 6 years GC-about 5 years
See the pattern. Many famous nintendo characters have starred in many roles. Heck, look at mario- doc, villian,soccer,(i've heard they're making a football mario game), adventurer. Yes they had games like Baiten Kaitos and Good Beyond Evil but the majority usually is around mario and zelda. As I look forward for star character games, I like to see a little variety. I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo is losing the spark it had ten years ago. :)
 

Mic_128

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You ARE all aware that it will play perfectly fine on the GC, right? You don't HAVE to buy a Rev to play it.
 

rounder_nk

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supermariopro101 said:
Because he'll have to spend about 400 dollars if he wants it when it first comes out. Personally, I think they should have made TP for the gamecube only. I'm sure it was fine the way it is and a zelda game has never disappointed me. I can understand 6 months maybe but not 12! As others have said, this has made me lose a little intrest in it. They really don't have any competition regardless if its for the rev or not because of SSBR. Nintendo must think the playstation 3 will give it a run for its money but delaying one game will not help its cause.
I feel as nintendo grows older, less games are made for a system.Note: (These are estimates and therefore should not be considered perfect) NES-about 9 years SNES-about 8 years N64-about 6 years GC-about 5 years
See the pattern. Many famous nintendo characters have starred in many roles. Heck, look at mario- doc, villian,soccer,(i've heard they're making a football mario game), adventurer. Yes they had games like Baiten Kaitos and Good Beyond Evil but the majority usually is around mario and zelda. As I look forward for star character games, I like to see a little variety. I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo is losing the spark it had ten years ago. :)
....it said only $100 for the rev.... games might end up costing more though....
 

Zink

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The system turnover rate is due to the fact that computing power and style is changing rapidly.
You know how cell phones and laptops are obselete really fast? Same thing is happening to the games industry.
 

Chill

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kaid said:
While this ensures that people like Chill are mad and storm off, Nintendo is counting on the final product to be so incredible that people without GCs will buy them secondhand just to play this game
A video game delay isn't enough to make me mad. I'm explaining why I have reconsidered my decision to purchase said game. Not exactly what I would call "storming off".
 

Cashed

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kaid said:
Razor Hawk (I think, either him or someone else w/ the same avatar) mentioned (and backed up with facts) the claim that only the last year or so was Bungie actually doing anything. The Playable Demo at E3? scrapped. The trailer with Earth in flames? oops, we'll save that for Halo 3.
No. They made an entirely new engine for Halo 2, which was present in the E3 demo. Some things had to be toned down for the Xbox though for the final version of the engine. It took them almost an entire year to make that new engine, though. They then started working on what they first wanted Halo 2 to be. They then realized it wasn't working, and started over (with just the new engine). They made all the levels and such in about a year after that.
 

supermariopro101

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Mic_128 said:
You ARE all aware that it will play perfectly fine on the GC, right? You don't HAVE to buy a Rev to play it.
Perfectly aware, it just makes me mad that they are delaying the game for six whole months just so it can come out on the revolution too. These are the last months of the reign for the gamecube and ending it on a high note is a key to its overall achievement. ;)
 

Eor

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Wait, thats all it said? I thought they were adding features you can only unlock if play it on a Rev, like with Tingle in Windwaker.

Jesus, now I feel stupid.
 

Mic_128

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They might well be Eor, but all Nin's said is they're adding Rev controller capabilities.
 

Zink

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Does anyone remember the Color Dungeon from Link's Awakening Deluxe, the version playable on the Gameboy Color? I think they might add something like that- an extra dungeon using Rev features that might have a small impact on the game. If I remember rightly, the Color Dungeon aloowed you either more attack or defense.
Probably revamping the graphics is harder than we are assuming.
 

Bedi Vegeta

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Zink said:
Probably revamping the graphics is harder than we are assuming.
Revamping graphics basically means starting again from scratch, and redoing nearly everything. So yes, it probably is.
 
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