The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (USE SPOILER TAGS)

[kaid]

In the Revolution topic, I shot that down months ago.

First off, you choke up on the remote so your thumb is over the D-pad, not the 'A' button. That's your x/y/a/b buttons.

The B trigger becomes R, and one of the Z buttons becomes L. (the other stays Z)

The tilt function becomes a souped up C-stick... Instead of 4 inputs, you have 12. (I'm not kidding! Tilt [x2 pitch, x2 yaw, x2 roll] and Slide [up/down, left/right, in/out] gives you 12 analog inputs)
This makes up for the lack of a Dpad

And, of course, the control stick is the control stick.

*************************************

But there's another possibility.

The shell is supposed to resemble a wavebird, yet still keeps Tilt sencitivity. It obviously wouldn't be used for swordfighting, like we all dream, but it will be usable without changing the button config in the slightest.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I agree man, it's sort of really looking pointless to go through all that for a Revolution compability, but then again it's Nintendo, we never know what they're going to do next, so it's still up for grabs. And if they do go through with it, heck, i'll still buy it to see how it plays or not. The magazine might have explained how it all plays, but theres a whole lot more mechanics and stuff involved in it regarding a Revolution controller. I still say the Revolution stuff should be left to the next gen Zelda entirely, so far I haven't seen much of anyone opposing to my little view here. I do think most everyone agrees it should be released in April rather than November for the Revolution transition type of thing, but on the other hand people also wouldn't mind the use of a Revolution controller with TP. Anyone who thinks it should be delayed again, please state thine reasons.

But hey, we'll all be playing it first on a Gamecube controller anyways...

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

what's with you people saying this would delay it till novemeber?

I think the original argument that this added rev compatibility is why they ALREADY delayed it to APRIL. Not saying they are going to delay it more.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

I thought that too, but then the article came out saying it would come to near November for the same reason. I believe your explanation more though over the NGC article, thats for sure, and not just because it'll come out earlier either, it's very possible that they delayed it to April for the Revolution capabilities.

 

[smilingmadman]

If they delay this game till November to add a feature that I don't want, and alter the gameplay of the base game to accomidate this feature (as in removing usable buttons from the Gamecube controller so we won't feel limited on a Rev controller), I could quite possible never purchase a Nintendo product again.

I hear ya, man. I hear ya.

In my humble opinion, there is NOTHING good about that rumor.

I guess my point in all of this is that if they make this game Rev controller compatible, its going to involve changing the way it plays on a normal controller as well, such as removing usable buttons on the Gamecube controller that won't be there on a Rev controller. Unless they are planning on remaking the entire game for Rev controller mode, which I'm assuming would take quite a bit longer than until November.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the idea of them adding the Rev controller feature if it doesn't alter how it plays with a Gamecube controller. I simply cannot see any way they can add in a feature without altering the base gameplay, and in a negative way.

I didn't really think about it like that until you said it, The rAt. If playing this on the Revo really IS supposed to be a bonus, there would have to be no limitations by doing so. And I really can't see this game being played easily on the Revo, simply because there are so many controls in a Zelda game of this caliber, and the Revo honestly doesn't have that many buttons, especially not that can be accessed easily without shifting your hand up and down the controller.

It just occured to me that all this has already been said. See how miffed I am?! I'm so miffed.

Let's hope it's just a mindless rumor, yes?

 

[blaksheap82]

The d-pad is more accessible than it looks, but the a,b/x,y are still out of reach. The Nunchaku would provide enough buttons, but I agree with rAt about a FP view screwing the gameplay over. After all this time of playing 3-D Zelda in third person, and then they tried to switch it for the last Cube game, that would be really cheap. Not to mention, no matter how intuitive the Remote is, your aiming in third person will be off for sword slashes or arrows or Hookshot or whatever, unless the camera is directly behind you, and we all know how often that is. That's the whole reason they came up with L-targeting.

 

[kaid]

How often is the Dpad used in 3D Zelda games? Since it's so accessable, and not being really used, make D-up=Y, D-right=X, D-left=B, and D-down=A

 

[blaksheap82]

Uh, there already are the big A button and the b-trigger. Why would you doulbe up the buttons? I'm sure there could be a better use found for them.

 

[kaid]

the big A button and B trigger would do something else.

In order to make the controls equivilant, you have to ignore what the controls are labled.

 

[blaksheap82]

Why do that, when the extra d-pad buttons can do that to start with? Why can't one be Z, which was assignable in WW and is in TP, and leave A and B alone to avoid confusion? A trigger would work well for what A was in WW, or assignable for arrows and the Hookshot.

 

[kaid]

...mainly, to avoid moving things around. the Dpad is about the same shape as the x/y/a/b zone on the GC controller.

 

[blaksheap82]

Okay, I see what you're saying. But I think having the made-to-be-accessible ginormous A button would be better used for items or the sword than for talking to people, since you wouldn't spaz at all just when you're trying to buy something (not that I spaz when I play video games, just the opposite, but you get the point).

 

[The rAt]

Y'know...

It occured to me as I was reading that even if they solve the problems involved with assigning the three standard weapons, it still doesn't work. For example, even if we've got enough buttons to cover the standard three holdable weapons, there's nothing to shift the camera view (assuming they include such a feature). I think someone mentioned the D-Pad working the same way the C-pad worked on the N64, which I think could concievably work. You'll have to excuse me if this doesn't fit quite right because I don't have a picture of the remote in front of me, but say we have the D-pad controlling the three weapons and the camera angle. Then supposing the big A button is to interact and Link's trademark diving roll and the B-trigger is the sword; how are we supposed to block with Link's shield? And more importantly than that, how do we lock on?

It must also be noted that since this is supposedly built off of the Wind Waker engine, we'll most likely have sidling and crawling to deal with as well (shudder).

Thing is, I have a very hard time seeing how we're going to get a full range of movement by moving the remote, but I'm sure its possible. I can't see how we're going to get around aiming without the problematic first person view, but that aside there simply aren't enough buttons to control Link's arsenal in the format that it is currently in. This means that it must inevitably be altered to a new format. This is the problem I have with making this game Revolution compatible.

I guess what I have to say is this; all thing aside, there is no excuse for Nintendo altering the base gameplay of this game just to make it Rev controller compatable, and I see no other alternative. So, as smilingmadman said, "Let's hope its just a mindless rumor..."

Andy

 

[blaksheap82]

Even with the Nunchaku, that would take a pretty creative control scheme to make it work, and I still can't think of anything to make L-targeting work, like I already mentioned. It might work, but my brain doesn't tend to work too well this time of night.

 

[smilingmadman]

Well, since the debate has switched to "what actions would be assigned to what buttons," I'll put in my two cents. Even though right now, all hope I have in my body is geared toward the whole Revolution thing NOT happening.

Well, as far as I know, the only buttons the controller will have, even with the nunchaku attachment, are:

-Control Stick
-Z1
-Z2
-A
-B
-D-Pad
-a/x
-b/y
-Select
-Start
-Home
-Freehand movement controls

That's SERIOUSLY not much to work with. I think it's pretty obvious that "Start" will serve the same purpose as it has in every other game in the series, as well as almost every other game ever made, and that's Pause, used to access the Select Item/Map/Equip Item/Quest Item subscreens. From there, you'd use the Control Stick to navigate the screens, or perhaps use "B" or really just about any other button to switch between each subscreen.

From what I saw in the videos taken of actual gameplay, only two items, besides the sword and shield, will we usable at a time. "a/x" and "b/y" can be used for that.

I honestly can't see the D-Pad being for anything important. It's just too high up on the controller, and way too out-of-reach. If anything, I guess it could be used to turn the minimap on and off, or to swing the camera around.

"A" should be used for the Action Icon, as it has for years. That would include mounting Epona, Attack rolling, opening doors, talking to other characters, etc.

"B" could, perhaps, be used to pull out your sword. With the sword in-hand, the freehand controller could be used for the oh-so-intuitive swinging movements. The freehand movement controls could also be used for rowing your boat, using your bow, and that's probably about it.

Now for the nunchaku attachment. The Control Stick would definitely be used for walking around and navigating menus and subscreens. Z1 could be used for L-Targeting, which would then bring back the good, old-fashioned name Z-Targeting. Z2 would be for your shield.

----------

The more I think about it, the more useless Revo controls seem when applied to this game. Honestly, I couldn't care less about swinging the controller around instead of just pushing a button. If there's anything the DS games "WarioWare Touched" and "Feel the Magic: XY/XX" tought me, it's that the more "revolutionary" the controls, the more embarassing they are to play.

 

[blaksheap82]

I'd be embarassed about playing Feel the Magic, too.

But anyway, your argument makes sense, except for the fact of how you described the d-pad and a/x, b/y buttons. The a and b are out of reach for your thumb. The d-pad isn't. I know the d-pad looks like it's out of reach, but pics I've seen of it being held put it well close enough to the tip of your thumb. a and b, on the other hand, are all the way down by the joint between your thumb and palm.

 

[Destiny Smasher]

*chuckle*

Ah, and here we are, babbling about hypothetical ways of playing it on the Rev.

I think that it would be a really good idea to have it play on both--that way, Nintendo can really show us just how different the control really is, but how we can still play games that areb't radically different.

I'm just gonna let the rumor stew until Nintendo pulls the curtain off at E3.

 

[smilingmadman]

I don't think I can wait long enough for E3 to come around.

Alright, here's the plan... a buncha yous guys gotta meet me at the Nintendo HQ in Japan... I'll bring the grappling hooks and piton guns, and you all just make sure you're wearing all black so you won't be seen when we "infiltrate" the "facility" to find out just what the &!#$ is goin' on over there.

EDIT: Who's with me?

 

[blaksheap82]

Sounds like a plan, but just one suggestion: wear dark green or charcoal gray, it actually blends into shadows better than black. Trust me on this one.

 

[Uchiharakiri]

It wouldn't work, it's a proven fact that Nintendo has a full team of immortal Ninja, whom all descend from Hanzo Hattori, hired as fulltime guards for their HQ. We'd never even make it past the lobby, those guys can walk on walls, I swear to god, and since they're protecting Zelda secrets, they'll totally stealth kill us before we have a chance to say the word "Twilight".

 

[smilingmadman]

Sometimes, sacrifices must be made to benifit the greater good. Sure, some of us might not make it out alive, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

[The rAt]

Simple, we get on ebay and buy Nintendo Secret Ninja Police Uniforms. Then we hack Nintendo's security cameras and study their movements for weeks, training in a secret bunker somewhere in Canada with the ghost of Pat Morita as our sensei. Then, when we are ready, we infiltrate their system, taking no prisoners (except the sultry female ninjas), burning and pillaging as we go.

If that doesn't work, then we'll just give them blaksheap82 in exchange for our lives and regroup to form a new plan.

On a sidenote, smilingmadman, I'd prefer hookshots to grappling hooks; faster results. And besides, we all know that Nintendo has those little round bulls-eyes running up and down the sides of their buildings.

Andy

 

[blaksheap82]

Oh sure, you trade in the one who actually knows something about infiltration. Hacking cameras and studying techniques are child's play. That's gratitude for you.

Actually, this gave me an idea for a tongue-in-cheek fic it might be fun to write in my spare time (like after I get my wisdom teeth pulled next week). And those "bulls-eyes" are laser sights. I doubt immortal ninja would employ snipers, though.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

actually, using grappling hooks would be correct.

a hookshoot shoots stright and impales the target.

a grappaling hook arches over a ledge, then is pulled back and catches on the ledge.

since i doubt you could get a hookshot long enough to reach a corporate skyscraper rook, i think grapeling hooks is the way to go.

 

[Rebel581]

I'll crack the system. You guys get a copy for me too >_>

 

[The rAt]

Grappling hook doesn't work fast enough for my liking. I'm sure there's got to be a yet-to-be-revealed-longershot and longestshot. In fact, THAT my friends, is the reason for the delays. And here we all thought it was adding of content or reformating for Rev controller compatibility. And since when are the ninja's immortal? That ruins the whole plan...

On a slightly more relevant note, I was wondering if they'll include the Tingle Tuner again. For my part, if they do, I'd bet it'll be more DS oriented. But then it struck me; I never used the Tingle Tuner, so I don't care. However, I wanted to get back to Twillight Princess and it was the only seguay (sp?) I could think of. Aren't I great?

Andy

 

[Rebel581]

It would not use the DS at all. It's on the GCN and the GCN cannot connect to the DS. Plus the Tingle Tuner sucks. Tingle sucks. Except that one thing in TWW where you could get infinite money really quickly using the Tingle Tuner was nice.

Also there is a longshot. Just look in OoT.

 

[The rAt]

True, there is not currently any DS connectivity like what there is for the GBA, and I suppose I forgot that. However, if there were more time, as people have been currently speculating, I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to concieve of and develop such a device in their constant quest to promote the Nintendo DS.

I do agree in regards to the Tinge Tuner. I never really bothered with it, or the GBA in general for that matter. I just waited for the GBA player for the Cube (which, by the way, is useless when it comes to conectivity between Cube and GBA). Props for not liking Tingle, though. That lil' fairy man creeps me out...

As far as the longshot goes, I remember it. However, as long as it was, it did have a limited range, and my idea was a sort of longer-shot or longest-shot which would have unlimited range. Obviously in reality no such device could exist, but then again neither could the standard hookshot, as far as I can tell. It was meant to be a joke, but I suppose it wasn't a very good one. Oh well, live and let die, I guess...

Until later,

Andy

 

[Mic_128]

Well they are thinking about Rev-DS link-up for Animal Crossing Revolution, so they might slip something in wiht the Rev support.

 

[blaksheap82]

actually, using grappling hooks would be correct.

a hookshoot shoots stright and impales the target.

a grappaling hook arches over a ledge, then is pulled back and catches on the ledge.

since i doubt you could get a hookshot long enough to reach a corporate skyscraper rook, i think grapeling hooks is the way to go.

So would you propose pulling yourself over a barbed wire fence with a grappling hook? I've always wondered somewhat why Nin included a grappling hook in WW when there had already been a Hookshot. Anyway, back on topic:

Since the Rev and the DS both use Wi-Fi, connectivity is a no-brainer, especially because some people might be more inclined to use it because they don't have to buy any extra cables. It wouldn't take a big brainstorming session to come up with an idea for implementing this with MP:Hunters and MP3, or possibly the new Zelda games that are supposedly coming out for the DS and Rev. But not the Tingle Tuner, you guys are right, that fruity fairy creeped me out, and I never used the Tingle Tuner, either.

 

[Chill]

Nintendo has dismissed claims that long awaited GameCube title The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess will be playable on the Revolution using the new "freestyle" controller.

NGC magazine was responsible for starting the rumours with an article which read: "Twilight Princess will be playable on the forthcoming Revolution using the upcoming console's unique controller."


"The article in the January edition of NGC Magazine is pure speculation," the company said.

"Nintendo have made no new announcements regarding The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. We can however confirm that the game is still in development and that it will launch on Nintendo GameCube in 2006."

Some people have suggested that Nintendo is only shutting these rumors down so they can show this feature off at E3.

 

[The rAt]

Interesting. Where'd you find that, Chill? Not to be overly cynical, but I'm taking the entire issue with a grain of salt until E3. That way I don't get stressed out about it until I can either rest at ease or start busting skulls. Not that speculation isn't stimulating, though...

blaksheap, I think the reason the grappling hook was introduced was two-fold. First of all, I think they ran out of ideas for new gadgets to give Link. I mean, what medieval technology do they have left?
Secondly, it creates an interesting dynamic by performing most of the same functions of a hookshot (getting across large gaps), but with different triggers (random bars sticking out of the walls vs. bullseyes/trees, ect), a different functioning mechanic (having to swing vs. being coveniently pulled to the object) and more limitations (inability to latch onto trees/chests/ect. and inability to aim below the waist), so that it doesn't make the hookshot completely obselete. Addtionally, you have to learn to swing on ropes for various other purposes throughout the game, and it functioned as convenient rope for ringing the bell in the Temple above the submerged Hyrule.
I guess the point is, they wanted you to be able to get across gaps early on without introducing the hookshot right away. I mean, what kind of Zelda game gives you the hookshot in the first dungeon?

 

[blaksheap82]

Yeah, I really did think of all that, it's all logical, but there probably could have been something else they could have come up. Don't get me wrong, I still thought it was a great weapon, but look at the Game Boy Zelda games and the array of items and weapons you get in those. Granted, it's comparing kumquats and bananas, but there was probably something else they could have included that would have brought more variety. Or maybe not, considering what they're doing with the items in TP, which still looks impressive so far.

 

[Death Bucket]

The thing about Nintendo [which I hate] is that they wont reveal much until the game comes out

 

[Uchiharakiri]

And the crowd goes willlllllllld!. Heh, I had always been leaning to it all being a fake and it turns out that it was right, Nintendo themselves have confirmed it, so by ****, the truth is it'll be released in April, just like mister Reggie said, I do believe it's safe to say.

Case closed.

 

[blaksheap82]

Link, Plz!!

 

[Mic_128]

And the crowd goes willlllllllld!. Heh, I had always been leaning to it all being a fake and it turns out that it was right, Nintendo themselves have confirmed it, so by ****, the truth is it'll be released in April, just like mister Reggie said, I do believe it's safe to say.

Case closed.

Wrong. This is exactly what Nintendo had to say.

"Nintendo have made no new announcements regarding The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. We can however confirm that the game is still in development and that it will launch on Nintendo GameCube in 2006."

It's been neither confirmed, nor denied.

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Wasn't it officially pushed back to April way back in November or something?

 

[Uchiharakiri]

You forget, their answer was more leaning on them disproving the rumor as... "It is pure speculation".

 

[blaksheap82]

But it's a little worrying that they didn't just come out and say that NGC was wrong, because I can't really think of any reason not to. They could be following their secrecy MO, but if it weren't true, they'd only be needlessly angering a lot of fans.