The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (USE SPOILER TAGS)

[blaksheap82]

If you give Link the Gale Boomerang which I think should be in smash for the Rev (go ahead, mods shoot me), then that must mean that in real life you're a CG baboon with a very colorful butt and a temper problem. No wonder you're always such a crab.

Are we so starved for new information that we are reduced to arguements about Legend of Zelda 2 that are only vaguely coherent? Come on Nintendo, throw us a frickin' bone!

Not to pick on you all for your debate (Although on a side note, I've read through the whole thing a couple of times, and I'm still not even sure what the issue is), I'm just a bit annoyed by the total lack of any new information. Seems like there has to be something new they can give us that won't ruin the game for us. Between this and Smash Bros. Revolution, Nintendo has really been getting on my nerves recenty...

Not to give away any major plot revelations, but I read some question in a magazine (I think it was the NP after E3, where it first talked about Link turning into a wolf.) that made something click in my brain as to the answer to the question. Not to give it away if I'm on the right track, but I will say that Nin better not use that same shtick when it comes to multiple personalities again. (Yes, I made that ambiguous on purpose.)

 

[courage]

I just love the fact that its a gigantic game and Link can turn into a wearwolf.

 

[BloodyMarth]

praise the master sword................

.......................and mine of course.............

 

[The rAt]

Well,
having refrained from posting a snide comment in response to ChRed2AKrisp's last post, I'd say the temptation has passed and I can safely post without being too much of a jerk. I think...

blaksheep82, I have to confess, I have no flaming idea what you are talking about. I gathered you believe you figured something out about the game, but don't want to spoil for us and that Nintendo has Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personalities). Am I close?

Mic, you wouldn't happen to have a few extra of those handy Gale Boomerangs lying around, would you? You know, they'd be quite helpful for my "plans", and Christmas is coming up soon...

Those thoughts aside, I wonder if there will be any connection between made in the story between Wolf Link and Pig Gannon? No? Yeah, I am aware this is a weak attempt at staying on topic, but its MY weak attempt, and I'm sticking with it!

That's all I got for now.
Andy

 

[IceDrake]

I was reading the article about LOZ in EGM and I think Nintendo may have moved TP back to help sell the Revolution. TP will be coming out shortly before (or after:/) the Revolution. So rather than people going out buying a GC this time of year to play TP, they'll spend the extra $100 on the revolution to get more for the money.

 

[blaksheap82]

Something similar occured to me when I first heard it was pushed back to April: Nin supposedly has a LOZ game in the works for the Rev, right? And this has been touted as the best Zelda game ever (probably), maybe even the best GC game ever (too soon to tell), right? So people are going to expect the LOZ game for the Rev to top TP, unless it's a different format like Four Swords, right? So... What if this is really going to be launched for the Rev, and they've only been saying it's for the GC to keep the lid on the Rev, like Nin always does. Or something along those lines, seeing as the Rev is going to be backwards compatible anyway, so it doesn't matter all that much when it's released regarding the Rev's release date. And if anyone wants to tell me that the controls would probably be different, the shell mock-up is identical in layout to a GC controller, and the demos could have easily only had a few programming differences.

And to The rAt: If that's all you got out of that, good. When I had the revelation that I referred to above, I was royally pissed off. I'm fervently hoping that I'm wrong, just so the plot still surprises.

 

[Chill]

blaksheep82, I have to confess, I have no flaming idea what you are talking about. I gathered you believe you figured something out about the game, but don't want to spoil for us and that Nintendo has Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personalities). Am I close?

I'm not sure either but I think it had to do with Zelda turning into someting. If I understood correctly he doesn't want another Zelda/Sheik, Zelda/Tetra thing going on.

 

[blaksheap82]

I'm not sure either but I think it had to do with Zelda turning into someting. If I understood correctly he doesn't want another Zelda/Sheik, Zelda/Tetra thing going on.

Exactly. That won't be a surprise THE THIRD TIME IN A ROW THAT IT'S USED! Come on, I want something that will make my jaw drop!

 

[Gamer4Fire]

Come on, I want something that will make my jaw drop!

Link in a bikini.

 

[blaksheap82]

ROFL!/LMAO!/ROFL!

Seen it.

 

[Mic_128]

Mic, you wouldn't happen to have a few extra of those handy Gale Boomerangs lying around, would you? You know, they'd be quite helpful for my "plans", and Christmas is coming up soon...

I would, but I had just the one.

I wonder if there will be any connection between made in the story between Wolf Link and Pig Gannon?

That would actually be kind of cool, like for the final boss-fight, you're a wolf (or human, assuming there's an item that stops you from transformng when in the "twilight") where you fight pig gannon, do something in the fight which clears up the "twilight" in the room turning Gannon back to Gannondorf.

 

[Bedi Vegeta]

Guh, I hate games where you transform into something else for the final boss, or the gameplay style changes...I would just love for once to be able to fight a boss that was just basically an uber strong regular enemy...the final battle in Wind Waker came pretty close to that, but you still had to rely on Zelda shooting arrows and stuff...

 

[KiraYamato]

I was reading the article about LOZ in EGM and I think Nintendo may have moved TP back to help sell the Revolution. TP will be coming out shortly before (or after:/) the Revolution. So rather than people going out buying a GC this time of year to play TP, they'll spend the extra $100 on the revolution to get more for the money.

Wow I feel dumb to not think of that but that actually is a very reasonable idea especially with the whole backwards compatibility thing. I really dont think the game will release as a revolution game though. That would just be ******** in my opinion.

 

[blaksheap82]

Guh, I hate games where you transform into something else for the final boss, or the gameplay style changes...I would just love for once to be able to fight a boss that was just basically an uber strong regular enemy...the final battle in Wind Waker came pretty close to that, but you still had to rely on Zelda shooting arrows and stuff...

I think that sounds like it could be cool, as long as you didn't spend the entire time as Wolf-Link. (Wolf is a noun, not an adjetive, dang it! Does no one speak correct English anymore?) But with the entire twenty year history of Zelda boss battles, I don't think it's too far-fetched. BTW, what game is Pig-Ganon (Pig is a noun!) from? Or is that just what Ganon turns into in Twilight Hyrule?

 

[Deo_Smash]

The pig ganon is from the original Legend of Zelda game for the nes. Ganon was origianlly a pig and had always been known, thought, and beleived to be a pig monster till ocarina of time came along and shed us light on the monster. From the games have explained, Ganondorfs wickedness tainted the sacred realm, the realm also shows what we are on the inside. The image of a pig is perfect for ganondorf, representing power, greed, and arrogance. Although, i did thought he had a slight amount of compassion in Wind Waker. I don't think that lasted very long. The reason ganondorf has been in pig form throughout later games in the timeline, in my theory, is because the sacred realm has tainted his body so badly, Ganon can no longer change to his original shape. Like red kool-aid on white carpet, you can't get rid of it. We saw ganondorf, not ganon, in Wind Waker because the realm has not tainted him too badly. We'll most likely see ganon and ganondorf in Twilight Princess.

 

[Sephiroth27]

The pig ganon is from the original Legend of Zelda game for the nes. Ganon was origianlly a pig and had always been known, thought, and beleived to be a pig monster till ocarina of time came along and shed us light on the monster. From the games have explained, Ganondorfs wickedness tainted the sacred realm, the realm also shows what we are on the inside. The image of a pig is perfect for ganondorf, representing power, greed, and arrogance. Although, i did thought he had a slight amount of compassion in Wind Waker. I don't think that lasted very long. The reason ganondorf has been in pig form throughout later games in the timeline, in my theory, is because the sacred realm has tainted his body so badly, Ganon can no longer change to his original shape. Like red kool-aid on white carpet, you can't get rid of it. We saw ganondorf, not ganon, in Wind Waker because the realm has not tainted him too badly. We'll most likely see ganon and ganondorf in Twilight Princess.

Or maybe the games are not related and they are completely different storylines in almost every possible, conceivable way. The games don’t HAVE to be related.

 

[blaksheap82]

Also, in the beginning of WW (or wherever it was in the story, I'm having trouble remembering now) the King of Red Lions tells you his name is Ganon, which was the really the first time I can remember seeing him called that. But anyway, you're saying the longer Ganondorf is in the sacred realm, the more piggish he becomes? It's a bit confusing, but Sephiroth27 was correct, since the Zelda games for the most part don't follow a specific timeline.

 

[The rAt]

And with blaksheep82's last comment, we officially loop back around for yet another timeline debate.

If this is continued it will be the fourth major one, I believe. Actually, for quite some time we had a nice little topic for it. In any case, the long and short of it is that there are three major ways to look at LoZ continuity. Option A, there is none. However, because of major 'links' (not yet sure if pun is intended) between Windwaker and OoT, as well as other LoZ games. It means that the Zelda series is something like the Final Fantasy series, and no two games are connected except by inclusion of characters with the same names and/or attributes. Option B, single timeline continuity. All Zelda games are connected, but each Link and Zelda is a different character, connected by the triforce of courage and arguably family ties. This does not, however mean that each Ganon/Gannondorf is different. The order is generally recognized as OoT-->MM-->WW-->LttP-->LA-->LoZ-->AoL, with the Oracle games and Four Swords tossed in rather arbitrarily sometime after LttP.The flaw in this theory is that it does not explain the possible temporal problems with OoT. Option C, and my personal favorite, is the dual-timeline idea; that OoT is the first Zelda game, and in the middle of it when Link goes to the future, he creates to indipendent timelines, and that is why Young Link doesn't grow up and interfere with Adult Link's actions. It also explains why you see Gannondorf in only OoT and WW; Gannondorf transformed into Gannon in the future, which is the diverging timeline. Therefore the order looks something like this.
OoT--> WW
OoT--> MM -->LttP-->Ect.

In any case, believe me I know this from experience, there is waaaaaaaaaaay too much material to cover on the temporal nature of Hyrule to cover in this topic. I'd be happy to continue the debate if someone wants to dig up that old topic.

That issue aside,
Mic, I'd thoroughly enjoy something like that given the provision that it is followed by a more straightforward boss battle. Call me old fashioned (So much for the dying hope I'd never have to use those four words), but I really enjoy the more straightforward confrontations, something that builds to a real climax, and being stuck as a wolf would be more of a distraction for me.

On a side note, blaksheep,
I am quite aware that my grammar and syntax are most likely terrible, which is even more pathetic when considering that I am in the process of working on a novel. Oh well, if you can't work inside the rules, make up your own, right?

Sorry for the ridiculously long post,
Andy

 

[blaksheap82]

I just got on this thread recently, so I didn't know about the previous discussions on this. The third explanation sounds the best to me, modifying it somewhat with the concept of different Links and Zeldas, because that was all but stated explicitly in WW, and numerous magazines (NP, EGM) have said that the Link in TP is different from previous ones. My theory is that since there is no rigidly set timeline like in Metroid, the game designers just tell continuity to get bent and make up whatever storyline they want, much like The Simpsons.

I also have a question regarding the first page in this thread: Where was it confirmed that TP takes place after WW? I know I read that it takes place a few decades after OoT (but of course I can't find my issue of that magazine), and not to mention WW was set entirely on an ocean, whereas this is a vast terra firma landscape that includes Hyrule, and in WW it was stated that Hyrule was under water; is that anything to do with the "subaquatic" world? Or was the OoT succeeding timeline just a line to keep the lid on the game secrets that I fell for?

 

[Mic_128]

Mic, I'd thoroughly enjoy something like that given the provision that it is followed by a more straightforward boss battle. Call me old fashioned (So much for the dying hope I'd never have to use those four words), but I really enjoy the more straightforward confrontations, something that builds to a real climax, and being stuck as a wolf would be more of a distraction for me.

Well more than likely there'll be some item that stops you bein forcably turned into a wolf, like the Moon Pearl in LttP (where when in the dark world you became a rabbit unless yu had the moon pearl)

And I think in the opening to Wind Waker they showed Gannon as a big pig too, like the Pig-puppet.

 

[IceDrake]

Wow I feel dumb to not think of that but that actually is a very reasonable idea especially with the whole backwards compatibility thing. I really dont think the game will release as a revolution game though. That would just be ******** in my opinion.

I definately agree with you there. It would piss off fans. Since TP is getting a lot of attention with the delay, it may convince some old Nintendo fans to come back to Nintendo. After all, PS3 and Xbox 360 don't have a 20 year old library to download games from.

 

[smilingmadman]

Where was it confirmed that TP takes place after WW? I know I read that it takes place a few decades after OoT (but of course I can't find my issue of that magazine), and not to mention WW was set entirely on an ocean, whereas this is a vast terra firma landscape that includes Hyrule, and in WW it was stated that Hyrule was under water; is that anything to do with the "subaquatic" world? Or was the OoT succeeding timeline just a line to keep the lid on the game secrets that I fell for?

You're right, blaksheap82. I don't know if it was Aonuma or who it was, but on a video where the creators of the game played through 30 minutes of TP, they themselves said that Twilight Princess takes places between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker. I know this because I saved the video onto my comp.

 

[Deo_Smash]

Or maybe the games are not related and they are completely different storylines in almost every possible, conceivable way. The games don’t HAVE to be related.

Somewhere on the Internet, someone has made a complete and convincing timeline. I believe if you search <A HREF=www.open-encyclopedia.com>www.open-encyclopedia.com</a> you'll might find it.

Also, in the beginning of WW (or wherever it was in the story, I'm having trouble remembering now) the King of Red Lions tells you his name is Ganon, which was the really the first time I can remember seeing him called that. But anyway, you're saying the longer Ganondorf is in the sacred realm, the more piggish he becomes? It's a bit confusing, but Sephiroth27 was correct, since the Zelda games for the most part don't follow a specific timeline.[/QUTE]

1. The ganondorf/ganon thing is a THEORY. My theory.

2. See above comment

I belive the games have one time line. I belive thats what makes it a "Legend".

3. Another Theory: Now that Wind Waker has been established, does this mean that there are now 2 Links? A hero of Time and a Hero of winds? In Wind Waker, I believe the Red Lion King said that the holder of the Triforce of courage left (the hero of time) and left behind the triforce of courage. this could mean that the bloodline of TIME is still alive, giving the possibility that the bloodline of WINDS might cross paths. This is only a theory.

 

[The rAt]

Well, I was going to try and fight this the urge to discuss the timeline, but it is semi-relevant, so until the moderators condemn us all to a fiery death, I really can't resist.

Thing is, certain Zelda games are connected. Example, both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker make heavy reference to OoT. AoL makes reference to LoZ. LttP makes reference to OoT. Ect. Therefore, we can pretty much assume that they all take place in the same world, just at different times. However, have you noticed that with the exception of Four Swords, and now TP, every second game does not introduce Link? That is in LoZ, LttP, OoT, and WW, Link is introduced and treated as though he is a new character that you are first meeting. That is, he hasn't saved anything yet. But in AoL, LA, and MM, Link is already established; that is the game treats Link as though you already know him. I haven't played AoL extensively, but it has been said that the manual makes reference to the events of LoZ. In LA Link's saving of Hyrule is mentioned in the manual or intro. When Link first wakes up he mistakes Marin for Zelda. Majora's Mask establishes Link early on as the same Link as OoT (through searching for Navi/Skull Kid). Therefore, until Four Swords, there has been a set formula for the series;

Every odd game introduces a new Link and involves him saving Hyrule and Zelda. Every even game involves the previous Link and what he does after he saved Hyrule. That is partially where I got the order from. The Oracle games are kind of weird, because whichever one you play first functions as the odd game and whichever you play second functions as the even game, but some of the elements are mixed around. In any case, I have not played Four Swords before, but I had assumed it was a sequel of sorts to WW. If not, then it is the first game to break this chain. It had been predicted quite some time ago, that the Link in TP would be an older version of the Link from Wind Waker, however if it is true that it takes place before WW, than it would mean that Nintendo is throwing out the old formula, or at least ignoring it for a bit. However, this does not mean it hasn't applied until now.

Mic, you are right it does show Pig-Ganon in the intro to OoT. I had my timelines crossed. OoT would be the result of Adult Link's world, Majora's Mask and the rest would be the result of Young Link's world. Other basis for that would be the fact that the statue in Wind Waker is of Adult Link, and he is shown carrying the Master Sword and the Hylian Shield and riding Epona. Additionally the Sages are all shown, when they wouldn't have been Sages in Young Link's time. I guess the Ganon/Gannondorf thing has no real bearing on the multiple timelines idea.

Geez, I'm really starting to ramble now and I'm starting to lose track of the idea I started with. There's really a lot to consider, and I wouldn't remember all of my arguements without having to go back and read them all, but sufficive to say that there are connections between the games, and there has been some concrete consensus about the timeline.

I'm going to shut up now and go eat pie, because writing makes me hungry. Later.
Andy

 

[zerotheultimate]

this zelda game has some nice graphics and i think it might be the best one of them all, i especially like the wolf transformation link will go through when stepping into the other world. awesome! ^_^

 

[Resting_Fox]

I just hope we see Sheik again in twilight princess. Even if only as some easter egg statue for nostalgia's sake. Sheik must live on! (outside of SSB)

 

[KiraYamato]

I just hope we see Sheik again in twilight princess. Even if only as some easter egg statue for nostalgia's sake. Sheik must live on! (outside of SSB)

I hope we dont see sheik. She always pissed me off, even in melee.

As for that whole timeline debate, I really believe the whole split timeline theory in which 2 different timelines were created in OoT. It just makes so much sense. Cant believe I never saw it sooner.

 

[DarkLink567]

I've always had that concept of every pair of games binding to each other.
(I really hope that made sense)

E.G.
LoZ-AoL
LttP-LA

But it gets complicated with OoT, MM, TWW and TP all having some sort of reference with each other.

I'll try to see if my theory makes sense though. I simply think of Majora's Mask as the only one of the three succeeding games of Oot to follow the YOUNG LINK BRANCH. TWW and TP most likely follow the ADULT LINK BRANCH.

It'd seem like a waste of space to repeat alot of the things rAt said, so i'll be brief. TWW makes direct reference to Adult Link (with the statue in the castle, the sages in the mirror paintings, the begining dialogue is refering to Adult Link defeating Ganon). TP Link could possibly be the Link who somehow didn't save Hyrule when Evil returned, however this tends to contradict itself seeing as though as he had probably never had appeared AT ALL as said in the writing in the intro. We'll find out in good time about how it all fits in.

Anyway enough with storylines, there seems to be no new info on release dates. Having the game releasing in the US at around roughly March-April 2006, I'm hoping there'll be a small fraction in time between release dates in other regions. (Australia especially, because we get screwed over with these things.)

Dear me, I need some good night sleep after all this writing, I better be off now.

 

[Creature_85]

Wow, this is the first time I've found someone else who shares my split timelines theory.

Anyway, what you are forgetting is that NOA stated that the Link in TP is a new Link, never before seen in a game. It's seeming likely that it follows the Adult Link branch, happening after Ganon's defeat and Link's return to YL's branch, and before WW, in the centuries in between.

 

[DarkLink567]

Obviously this is a new link but I'm unsure of the exact position in time this game takes place. It could be in between OoT and WW, or possibly after WW. In the "text at the beginning of the game it states that after Ganon returned from the Sacred Realm, no one came to help Hyrule and had to be Flooded. I remember someone making a good explanation to explain how the events of TP would work in between OoT and WW, even with the setback, but I've long forgotten it.

For this reason, this is why some people think that this game in fact takes place after WW, in the new Hyrule, Link and Tetra set out for.

 

[blaksheap82]

No, Creature 85 is correct, this is a different Link from any in any previous games, and takes place a few decades after OoT. (Crap, I wish I could find that dang magazine! Otherwise, I can't verify any of this.) I agree with the split timeline theory, along with the one of there being a Link and Zelda for each generation because that was stated in WW. So here's my explanation to reconcile all this: OoT and MM are the only two in that timeline, as DarkLink said, due to the Adult Link statue and sages in the stained glass in Hyrule in WW. A. Link's whereabouts after OoT are unknown at the time of TP, (he did spend that time in Termina) but Ganondorf is back, so Hyrule needs a new savior. For this, a different Hero of Time is chosen, not neccessarily another Link. TP Zelda could either be the same one from OoT or not, but if it's decades after it makes more sense for this Zelda to be the next one in line. This explains the whole deal with WW Link supposedly not being the Hero of Time at first, but later he is, for that generation, meant to be thousands of years after OoT; as well as a pirate girl really being Zelda millenia later, possessing the Triforce of wisdom. I think this theory accounts for all the discrepancies, except for periphals like FS and MC, which I don't think are meant to fit into a timeline anywhere at all. If this theory has any holes, I'd appreciate if someone could point them out to me.

Oh, btw, I want to see Sheik again. I also read something that said Impa was surprisingly popular, and there's a chance of her being in TP.

EDIT: Okay, I just found a hole myself in a magazine that pointed out that in the first TP trailer, Link has a Triforce on the back of his left hand. I suppose you could say that there's a lineage of Links, any of whom could be used as the Hero of Time, but I don't like the sound of that much, just imo. Maybe certain males born around Hyrule are born with the Triforce, and can therefore become the Hero of Time if needed. But that sounds too goofy, even for LOZ.

 

[FlareBlade]

I REALLY think that Twillight princess are going to be the best game of the year!!!! ^^

 

[Gamer4Fire]

I'm going to buy a bunch of rupees to give to friends the day LOZ:TP comes out. Hey, does anybody know where I could exchange currency at online?

 

[Osco316]

I love using rupees to buy stuff in India. It rocks. Not only do I get stuff cheap but I get to use rupees.

 

[SuicideDolls]

Is anyone gonna be extremely pissed off if they move the twilight princess over to the Revolution?

 

[DarkLink567]

There is most likely a ZERO percent chance they'll be moving it to the revolution. It isn't right to work on a game for 2 years or so just to have it moved to a different console. Plus, TP is supposed to be the final push for the Gamecube for its lifetime.

 

[KiraYamato]

There is most likely a ZERO percent chance they'll be moving it to the revolution. It isn't right to work on a game for 2 years or so just to have it moved to a different console. Plus, TP is supposed to be the final push for the Gamecube for its lifetime.

I agree that this will probably be gamecubes final breath but remember that this game will likely release around the time revolution releases meaning that aside from being looked at as the final push for the gamecube, it can be looked at as one of the first pushes for revolution as the system will be backwards compatible. I think nintendo realized that the gamecube is pretty much dead and are hoping this will help to boost revolution sales when it finally releases.

 

[blaksheap82]

Yeah, I agree with Kira- sort of. The best release date for the Rev now is November, so most people (who at least have time to play) will have finished TP long ago, and many will have traded them in. However, I'm glad that the Rev is backwards compatible in this case because I can take my time in finishing TP. Really, I wouldn't be pissed off at all if it was moved to the Rev, because if anything it would probably mean a slight graphical upgrade.

A bit off topic, but I'm really wondering what the Zelda game for the Rev's release (or close to it) will be like. After TP, it'll likely be something like Four Swords, because a lot of people will be dissapointed by anything less than TP right afterwards if they tried a standard Zelda game, and Nin will want to utilize the Remote to the full.

 

[KiraYamato]

If you think about it this game is very likely to sell out very quickly. If it does come out in the spring then the next shipment of games will prolly be around the holiday season when the revolution is speculated at releasing around the same time.

I highly doubt a true zelda title will be out for revolution when or close to when the system launches. The zelda team is still working on TP. They wouldnt have time work on any sort of revolution title till next year. Then it would take at least more than 2 years to work on it considering we will have been waiting for TP for around 2 years when it releases. I feel like we will get some sort of four swords or something gimicky that will make use of the new controller.

 

[SSJMarioBros]

Hey is it true that Ninendo is going to delay this game yet again until next Summer? O_o