Official The Lean Mean Green Machine - Luigi Gameplay Discussion

[ThunderSt0rm]

Luigi has a pretty nice off stage game too so don't be afraid to go for some deep gimps

I disagree. If you go deep and get sneezed at, you die for it. Smart players will make sure Luigi stays off the stage once everyone starts to learn how characters function.

The most I've ever gone offstage for is dthrow followups (either starting one or continuing one such as triple fair), attempt to catch people with a dair spike, and the occasional cyclone spike attempt. I'd change that "deep gimps" to more of a "has great edgeguarding tools" because Luigi should really be staying close to the stage due to his poor recovery. I guess you can go for vertical deep gimps since his vertical recovery is acceptable but even then you better know what you're doing.

With customs legal though you can go as deep as your heart wishes for a gimp.

 

[Yonder]

Could you guys imagine how much worse Luigi's grab game would be in this game if he still had the massive end lag for a whiffed grab from Brawl?

Thank Arceus that was buffed. I don't see enough people give credit for that.

Oh look, Luigi placed 1st once again at a giant tournament. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OEQfeuMnU&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

That D throw to dair spike offstage kill...golden.

 

[BlueBirdE]

What about them is giving you trouble?

The neutral game. What is the best way to fight these characters. Fireballs are very risky against sonic and yoshi with sonics spindash that goes over fireballs and and yoshis eggs which he can combo from. Plus their superior mobility on ground and air make it very tough to approach. I try walling them with SH f-airsandb-airs but my mobility really hurts me doing this effectively. Just wondering if there is anything you take advantage of against these characters such as rolling, punishes on shield, etc.

 

[GreenFlame]

Should I make my own Luigi guide? I guess it can't hurt to try, I'll see if I can share my Luigi experience.

 

[Nitric Acid]

All guides are welcome, they're useful data for newcomers and veterans alike. The more there are, the stronger the community!

 

[GreenFlame]

All guides are welcome, they're useful data for newcomers and veterans alike. The more there are, the stronger the community!

But after reading through Drybones08's guide on Luigi again, I remembered how good of a guide it is. I'm not really sure even where to start, or even if I could put anything that Drybones08's guide didn't cover.

 

[Nitric Acid]

But after reading through Drybones08's guide on Luigi again, I remembered how good of a guide it is. I'm not really sure even where to start, or even if I could put anything that Drybones08's guide didn't cover.

While his guide is great, it doesn't stop you from writing your own if you really want to. Things that are still somewhat uncharted are certain matchups, so you might want to include some information and examples from your experience in that area. If you like getting technical, you can talk about frame data, hitboxes, true combos and mixups -- lots of stuff, really! As long as the information has evidence to support it, anything you might want to write about helps a bunch.

Not saying you absolutely HAVE to write a guide of course! :D Just remember that nothing's really keeping you from doing it.

 

[GreenFlame]

While his guide is great, it doesn't stop you from writing your own if you really want to. Things that are still somewhat uncharted are certain matchups, so you might want to include some information and examples from your experience in that area. If you like getting technical, you can talk about frame data, hitboxes, true combos and mixups -- lots of stuff, really! As long as the information has evidence to support it, anything you might want to write about helps a bunch.

Not saying you absolutely HAVE to write a guide of course! :D Just remember that nothing's really keeping you from doing it.

Thanks for the support! I decided to write my guide, and I'm currently doing it. Not sure how long it will take to complete.

I can't really put frame data because I don't have it (does it exist?), and we don't have hitbox pictures yet either. But I'm hoping this guide will be good for now, and sometime in the future I can put in the technical stuff.

 

[Nitric Acid]

Thanks for the support! I decided to write my guide, and I'm currently doing it. Not sure how long it will take to complete.

I can't really put frame data because I don't have it (does it exist?), and we don't have hitbox pictures yet either. But I'm hoping this guide will be good for now, and sometime in the future I can put in the technical stuff.

No worries, thank you for having the interest to make the effort. I haven't seen any frame data for this game yet, and since it's not dominantly relevant in the series, that's something for the ultimate analytics. I'm eager to see what you come up with, and how the Luigi community (and the SSB4 community in general) evolves!

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

The neutral game. What is the best way to fight these characters. Fireballs are very risky against sonic and yoshi with sonics spindash that goes over fireballs and and yoshis eggs which he can combo from. Plus their superior mobility on ground and air make it very tough to approach. I try walling them with SH f-airsandb-airs but my mobility really hurts me doing this effectively. Just wondering if there is anything you take advantage of against these characters such as rolling, punishes on shield, etc.

I can't contribute much help vs Sonic because I'm terrible at that matchup, but fireball is how you deal with his spindash. Just be aware of when you fireball when he does the spindash (sideb iirc) that jumps into the air when he releases it.

Yoshi's eggs are easy to powershield. Just be patient and work your way to Yoshi. Once you're closer you can bait him to use options other than egg, which is where you can punish. Watch out when you're in range of dash attack or dash grab and be ready to react to whatever he throws out.

Don't challenge Yoshi when you're above him getting juggled. Work your way back to the ground the best you can, even go to the ledge if you have to. Also be careful of him nairing out of combos/strings, but if you expect the nair, you can shield and get another punish.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Could you guys imagine how much worse Luigi's grab game would be in this game if he still had the massive end lag for a whiffed grab from Brawl?

Thank Arceus that was buffed. I don't see enough people give credit for that.

Oh look, Luigi placed 1st once again at a giant tournament. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1OEQfeuMnU&list=UUj1J3QuIftjOq9iv_rr7Egw

That D throw to dair spike offstage kill...golden.

Xanadu isn't really a giant tournament, but yeah he won again which is great.

 

[sc458]

Boss is an incredible player, and really shows off Luigi's good side. The guy can mash as well, how he consistently gets a rising Tornado without the use of his mid-air jump I will never understand.

 

[GreenFlame]

Boss is an incredible player, and really shows off Luigi's good side. The guy can mash as well, how he consistently gets a rising Tornado without the use of his mid-air jump I will never understand.

Watching some of his matches, you may also notice he escapes grabs really fast. Clearly he is one of the best button-mashers out there.

He's so great at Luigi, and it's good we have someone to learn from.

 

[Yonder]

Here's a new question for everyone: What to do against shield spammers? I've ran into this problem a few times, and some people just shield Luigi's aerial straight into their own grab, rinse and repeat. The only thing I can do to counter it then is using spammed grabs, which becomes predictable and weakens my approach. Especially difficult against people who both shield spam and projectile spam, making me almost unable to touch my opponent. Help?

 

[hey_there]

Here's a new question for everyone: What to do against shield spammers? I've ran into this problem a few times, and some people just shield Luigi's aerial straight into their own grab, rinse and repeat. The only thing I can do to counter it then is using spammed grabs, which becomes predictable and weakens my approach. Especially difficult against people who both shield spam and projectile spam, making me almost unable to touch my opponent. Help?

I generally go for cyclone and rise a tiny bit at the end, so I'm too high to shield grab and from there I can drop an aerial. Sometimes I over commit to a fair or dair in order to land behind their shield, so I can't be shield grabbed from that either. I find bairs are easy to space so I'm not hitting their shield while being vulnerable to grabs. And of course, there's always rolling behind them while they're in an attack animation from a projectile or something, which I started doing after seeing Boss roll behind people a lot.

There's also empty jump into grab, which I'm going to start doing more after reading this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-smash-4.381183/.

 

[King_Peachee]

Here's a new question for everyone: What to do against shield spammers? I've ran into this problem a few times, and some people just shield Luigi's aerial straight into their own grab, rinse and repeat. The only thing I can do to counter it then is using spammed grabs, which becomes predictable and weakens my approach. Especially difficult against people who both shield spam and projectile spam, making me almost unable to touch my opponent. Help?

Luigi's approach is so dependent upon your ability to read the opponent. If they are heavy on shielding, then empty short hops may be very useful. Try not to cyclone if they know to shield the entire thing and then punish. The above comment works well against projectile characters.

I'd say Luigi's approach options are a significant weakness for Luigi that can only be overcome with smart play. Baiting people into doing what you want is difficult, but can be so rewarding when done successfully.

Sometimes it is worthwhile to just throw out some short hop bairs or nairs with considerable distance between you and the opponent. Try to get them to flinch or react and attack first.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Luigi's approach is so dependent upon your ability to read the opponent. If they are heavy on shielding, then empty short hops may be very useful. Try not to cyclone if they know to shield the entire thing and then punish. The above comment works well against projectile characters.

I'd say Luigi's approach options are a significant weakness for Luigi that can only be overcome with smart play. Baiting people into doing what you want is difficult, but can be so rewarding when done successfully.

Sometimes it is worthwhile to just throw out some short hop bairs or nairs with considerable distance between you and the opponent. Try to get them to flinch or react and attack first.

Not nairs because of the amount of active frames, but definitely fair and bairs depending on how youre facing the opponent. And i can agree about the approach. It can be very difficult due to how limited it is.

 

[Yonder]

Thanks for the advice guys. In return, here, have Boss winning another SAX. Not even a close match, the last stock is just so beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h88sVc9yUTI

 

[GreenFlame]

Thanks for the advice guys. In return, here, have Box winning another SAX. Not even a close match, the last stock is just so beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h88sVc9yUTI

*Boss

He is so awesome.

 

[Shog]

Whoever said on Complainboards first that Luigi is bad in this game needs to be dropped in molten wax. He is incredibly fun to play and I regret reading he might be really bad.

....

Poor Samus might be replaced, heh

(If this is a wrong thread for this)

His grabs are love, his grabs are life

 

[FalKoopa]

Can someone please post some info in the match-up thread? I'm not really an expert in competitive matters and I won't be able to compile anything without help. Please. ;_;

 

[BSP]

Thanks for the advice guys. In return, here, have Boss winning another SAX. Not even a close match, the last stock is just so beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h88sVc9yUTI

Full hop into nothing, not even fastfalled.

Boss never ceases to impress me.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Here's a new question for everyone: What to do against shield spammers? I've ran into this problem a few times, and some people just shield Luigi's aerial straight into their own grab, rinse and repeat. The only thing I can do to counter it then is using spammed grabs, which becomes predictable and weakens my approach. Especially difficult against people who both shield spam and projectile spam, making me almost unable to touch my opponent. Help?

A lot of good things have been said already but I just wanna put in my input. For aerial approaches, My go-to solution is an empty jump to grab. When people shield as you approach from the air, they are expecting an action from you so they can try and get the shield grab. Most players will continue shielding giving you a good opportunity for a grab. Other times I like to pressure their shield with two dairs or throw out a Fair early to bait an action from them then connect with another Fair or a Dair.

Also I love what @ hey_there said about rising after a blocked Cyclone. I'm definitely gonna start trying that.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks for the advice guys. In return, here, have Boss winning another SAX. Not even a close match, the last stock is just so beautiful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h88sVc9yUTI

He's good... really good.
I'm glad that Boss is showing people that Luigi isn't "trash."

 

[King_Peachee]

Boss just outsmarts the people he plays. Notice how he waits patiently for an opportunity to run in and grab on a shield. Let the opponent approach for once and punish accordingly.

I also think he is using some sort of turbo controller. He doesn't even flinch when rising with the cyclone.

 

[GreenFlame]

I also think he is using some sort of turbo controller. He doesn't even flinch when rising with the cyclone.

Is that technically legal in tournaments?

 

[King_Peachee]

Is that technically legal in tournaments?

It's not. But I'm only kidding. What I would give for that mashing ability. I bet he's amazing at Mario Party.

 

[superfrodoh]

can someone unleash the truth behind BOSS's rising cyclone! it will change the Luigi game!

 

[GreenFlame]

can someone unleash the truth behind BOSS's rising cyclone! it will change the Luigi game!

Unfortunately I think the only truth behind it is that he has insanely fast fingers. He escapes grabs really fast as well.

 

[sc458]

I think you have to mash B around 12x per second. It's fast.

 

[Opana]

So I was trying to perfect pivot mim match with Luigi. I had previously discovered you can buffer a perfect pivot, Buffered Perfect Pivot with Shulk but I think buffereing this out of nair with Luigi has good potential.

Buffered it accidentally last night, will get a replay up a bit after xmas.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Was practicing some more Luigi yesterday and I gotta say... Dthrow->Dair is underrated. Well maybe lol. Most people, myself included, opt for the immediate Fair->whatever combos. Those work but I was able to get some nice stuff from the Dair followup. NOTE: The followups only work with the Dair spike with the opponent not teching. Down throw->Dair at the ledge is really good for surprise spikes. Even at low percents it can kill if the player doesn't expect to be spiked and tries to recover too late (character dependent of course).

Yesterday, I was able to get off Dthrow->Dair spike->Uair->Fair->Uair. With Luigi, you can pretty much freestyle and aerials interchangeably depending on the position of the opponent. I understand the spike isn't easy to get but it's much easier than it used to be.

I'll look into more Dair spike followups later but some theoretical stuff:
Dthrow->Dair spike->aerial Up b
Dthrow->Dair spike->Dair spike->aerials
Dthrow->Dair spike->Cyclone

 

[GreenFlame]

Was practicing some more Luigi yesterday and I gotta say... Dthrow->Dair is underrated. Well maybe lol. Most people, myself included, opt for the immediate Fair->whatever combos. Those work but I was able to get some nice stuff from the Dair followup. NOTE: The followups only work with the Dair spike with the opponent not teching. Down throw->Dair at the ledge is really good for surprise spikes. Even at low percents it can kill if the player doesn't expect to be spiked and tries to recover too late (character dependent of course).

Yesterday, I was able to get off Dthrow->Dair spike->Uair->Fair->Uair. With Luigi, you can pretty much freestyle and aerials interchangeably depending on the position of the opponent. I understand the spike isn't easy to get but it's much easier than it used to be.

I'll look into more Dair spike followups later but some theoretical stuff:
Dthrow->Dair spike->aerial Up b
Dthrow->Dair spike->Dair spike->aerials
Dthrow->Dair spike->Cyclone

I've been experimenting with this too, I think you can realyl foolow up with anything after that d-throw. D-air's got potential.

 

[Lavani]

It's a real shame dair is techable, because the combos you can do with the floorbounces are so cool.

 

[Yonder]

I think Dthrow to dair produces the best combos and effective kill setups. But it requires a lot of mastery to get that spike [I personally use it when right next to the edge for a Dair spike...works almost everytime.]

As for myself, I prefer D throw to uair. I can follow up with a nair, u tilt, another u tilt, then a falling nair...I just think uair gives the best options. Fair is basic bread and butter, slap em two times after a throw for 30% about.

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

Yeah I tend to do a lot of the 2 chop BnB combo. I mostly use Uair if they're floaty or DI up. I'll try some more low percent Uair combos and see what I can get out of it because I never really use it. I'm getting fairly consistent with the Dthrow->Up B and Dthrow->Dair spike offstage. Soooooo satisfying!!

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

I literally just run at people to approach. If you have good fundamentals and good ability to powershield then you shouldn't have much trouble approaching someone unless they're purposely trying to camp you.

Also for those that don't know, empty shorthop to grab is called a tomahawk.

 

[Yonder]

Anyone know if Boss is going to Apex? I feel this will be the push that will make or break Luigi's tier position. I don't think Boss will win the whole thing or anything, but I think he'll place high...if he's going.

Otherwise, I can't point out anymore noteworthy SSB4 Luigi players atm asides from Mr. Concon, Thunderst0rm, and that new James guy on here has lots of potential.

...Any of you going to Apex?

 

[ThunderSt0rm]

Boss is going and I'm going too. I think Concon is working on building up funds to travel to apex based on what I saw in his stream earlier.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

So zero states that Luigi is top 5/ top 7 in this game, and that m2k shares the same opinion. Do you guys agree or disagree with this sentiment?