The Lab - Mewtwo's Birthplace (Mechanics Thread)

[AstraEDM]

Bumping this thread to report that having R as jump an tap jump off is giving me good results. I can still jc grab and up smash oos, but I also dont lose my second jump when I tele. Hovering with R is pretty great as it frees your thumb up to do aerials easier

 

[DrinkingFood]

I've been doing the exact same thing, @ AstraEDM . Even before MewTwo came out, I practiced the set up as peach.

 

[Vale]

I'll be sure to try it out. I currently wavedash/l-cancel with R though, so I'm not sure how long it would take me to adjust.

 

[AstraEDM]

I'll be sure to try it out. I currently wavedash/l-cancel with R though, so I'm not sure how long it would take me to adjust.

i suppose in theory it would work with L as jump as well, if you're used to R as shield/WD/lcancel

 

[DrinkingFood]

Personally, if you plan all working all your shoulder button usage into one, I'd suggest switching it all over to whatever you currently use to shield. Shielding is the most reactionary usage of those buttons, so whatever finger you're using for that probably has developed the most twitchy reflexes for that button. Everything else will be easier to switch over- wavedashing has a few frames warning for your brain to correct your fingers (no, not the left one, the right one!) as does L-canceling, etc. But shielding is something you want to come out on frame one of your reaction time, so however long it takes your brain to correct yourself while learning to apply this is how much slower your reaction time for shielding becomes, whereas the same isn't true for things that have one frame or more of start-up. I used to L-cancel with L, everything else with R. That was like, over a year ago? That finger still occasionally twitches for l-canceling. You probably don't want to switch your shielding button to a jump button for that reason- even if you successfully shield with w/e you DO switch to shielding with, if your old shielding finger twitches, you'll cancel your shield with a jump and take the hit during jumpstart.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

real talk how do you guys hover and nair at the same time? whenever i do it he just falls, its the only aerial that gives me trouble during hover >.>

 

[AstraEDM]

real talk how do you guys hover and nair at the same time? whenever i do it he just falls, its the only aerial that gives me trouble during hover >.>

I just jump, press down to execute hover, let go of down, and hold jump

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

mewtwo has a pretty fast jab crouch cancel

specifically on the first jab its about as fast as falco which is pretty good for a standard mewtwo gimmick

Nonononono. M2's jab is active on frame 8 according to the frame data thread. Spacies/Sheik/Peach etc all have frame 2 jabs assuming they're the same as melee. Pls don't spread misinformation/compare frames if you haven't done testing.

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

so ive been having trouble up smashing oos. im trying to use this to get out of shield pressure along with up b oos. i havent started using these so i cant say if they work for sure but i havent been able to get the u smash out. im currently using the wifi safe set so idk if that changes anything

and for the record i do know how to u smash oos. its not the fact that im forgetting the jump input

Clawing makes it a looot easier for me at least (input the jump with Y using your index finger). Otherwise practice? Maybe mixup the timing because his jump is a bit slow.

What do you guys think about OOS up smash? I've been testing it out, and it covers some nice distance. It could be a good answer for someone that likes to get behind your shield alot. If they spot dodge it out of instinct, it will still get them because of the active frames. It's only bad if they shield it or it isn't spaced right.

It seems pretty amazing. I've seen M2K usmash OoS on reaction to falco's shine deep on his shield and it looks like it covers WD forward and jump>aerial. The Usmash hits on frame 7 so it could definitely halt a lot of spacie pressure especially if they do not shine immediately/JC the shine immediately.


Edit: Uthrow>teleport gives a lot of guaranteed setups depending on %/character and I haven't seen it mentioned here (for the record SH teleport should be faster than teleport from the ground). I too have not been able to get guaranteed aerials/anything after a dthrow unless it was DI'd poorly. Also uthrow>jump TP> confusion seems pretty guaranteed at a lot of %s on fast fallers (disable could also work to put them off stage).

 

[MetaKnight0]

Nonononono. M2's jab is active on frame 8 according to the frame data thread. Spacies/Sheik/Peach etc all have frame 2 jabs assuming they're the same as melee. Pls don't spread misinformation/compare frames if you haven't done testing.

im talking about the crouch cancel

not the initial speed of the jab

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

im talking about the crouch cancel

not the initial speed of the jab

Ohh apologies, so how quickly he can act after CC'ing? Wheres this info or is it not compiled yet?

 

[AstraEDM]

Clawing makes it a looot easier for me at least (input the jump with Y using your index finger). Otherwise practice? Maybe mixup the timing because his jump is a bit slow.



It seems pretty amazing. I've seen M2K usmash OoS on reaction to falco's shine deep on his shield and it looks like it covers WD forward and jump>aerial. The Usmash hits on frame 7 so it could definitely halt a lot of spacie pressure especially if they do not shine immediately/JC the shine immediately.

Adding to this, I can confirm that usmash OoS is great. Covers so many options, and even if they shield it many players will let go early because of how long the move lasts.

 

[MetaKnight0]

oos usmash is old ass tech and its useful but risky

mewtwo's jab cc idt there's any info out on it but he can cc either the first or the second jab really fast it leads naturally into dtilt or just straight into whatever else you want

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

oos usmash is old *** tech and its useful but risky

mewtwo's jab cc idt there's any info out on it but he can cc either the first or the second jab really fast it leads naturally into dtilt or just straight into whatever else you want

By jab cc what do you mean? CC'ing something then jabbing? And why would you not CC tilt/usmash since they come out faster?

 

[DrinkingFood]

jab cc is an old outdated inaccurate way of saying jab canceling, which is crouching at the end of a jab1/jab2 it can be canceled into another jab1 during its earliest IASA instead of waiting for the jab3 window to pass fully
It's not really necessary to do it for tilts though so idk why he mentioned it

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

jab cc is an old outdated inaccurate way of saying jab canceling, which is crouching at the end of a jab1/jab2 it can be canceled into another jab1 during its earliest IASA instead of waiting for the jab3 window to pass fully
It's not really necessary to do it for tilts though so idk why he mentioned it

oh lmao, I understand now. Though apparently jab has crazy hitlag and can be combo'd into HC fair and tilts if cancelled. Why wouldn't it be necessary to jab cancel into tilts? Wouldn't it be faster with a cancel like other follow ups?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

wait jab 3?

doesn't mewtwo only have 2 jabs the first hit and then the continuous energy thing

also jab hitlag is normalized, you might be mistaking it with the fact that it knocks people up and then they have to land and there's not much they can do in that window of time

remember that you can always tag me for more information on hitboxes or other frame related data

 

[EmuKiller]

Something pretty small that can help, if you double tap the jump button, you'll always do your 2nd jump. I know this sounds like not a big deal, but I use it just to really make sure I don't accidentally lose my 2nd jump by hovering.

 

[MetaKnight0]

?? you cant cancel jab into utilt or ftilt or jump or whatever else without jab canceling first

jab into dtilt works for mewtwo cuz the down input for the cancel happens when you dtilt

IASA frames for jab 1 and jab 2 dont exist otherwise like you said you would need to wait for the entirety of the animation to finish before you could do something else

 

[Rubberbandman]

I've been studying this character a lot. Just yesterday I thought up a little mixup. At low percent from off the ground, Hover Bair -> Confusion and Hover Bair -> Breversed Disable is a good mixup. It covers if the opponent tries to shield or goes for a counter attack, and disable can lead into whatever combo you like. It doesn't really work on small characters though.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

I just jump, press down to execute hover, let go of down, and hold jump

whaaaat? cant believe it was that simple >.< now i'm shockin fools left and right!
1-800-shockdathoe

 

[AstraEDM]

whaaaat? cant believe it was that simple >.< now i'm shockin fools left and right!
1-800-shockdathoe

Defibrillate those hoes
And yeah, tele in > hover nair and float back is so great

 

[EmuKiller]

Hey @ MetaKnight0 I looked into that jab cc thing. You might be able to do the same thing with jab -> forward + Z to IASA into grab like you can with crouch, I should test that right now.

Tested and yeah! walking forward also cancels jab. up does not though! So yeah using either walking forward or crouching to cancel jab1 is a thing.

PS Good luck at GOML I hope you're going, and if you go to SKTAR I hope we both do really well

 

[ThreeSided]

whaaaat? cant believe it was that simple >.< now i'm shockin fools left and right!
1-800-shockdathoe

You actually don't even have to do that. If press and hold jump during the animation of any aerial you'll start to hover.

 

[Nemy]

Has anyone figured out whether or not DJC fair or HC fair is faster? I feel like DJC is faster(Maybe because im pressing more buttons)Or any frame differences between the two? I would also like to know the frame data regarding every HC aerial and DJC aerial but that might be too much to ask. I remember checking the frame data thread and it not having alot of info regarding them both.

Also, I was testing out some things regarding shield pressure/ frame advantage and potential shield break strings. I was able to break shield with a few HC aerials in training mode, but im not sure if any of it is even legitimate considering I dont know which moves deal alot of shield stun. I would do things like HC uair> HC dair(since its +5 on block)> full sb.

I dont think Uair has alot of shield stun(that IS a thing right?) so im not sure if its reliable to do repeated aerials on shield. Unless they are holding shield and you are behind them.

Basically what I would like to know is if land an HC aerial on shield, considering how much frame advantage I get off of it, what can I do that is guaranteed?

 

[DeFish]

Wasn't sure if this should go in this thread or the general one, but in watching videos of Mewtwo players I notice that instead of RARing, some of the more notable players (SmashG0D and Emukiller, in this case) opt for b-turnarounds with the shadow ball instead. Is there a particular reason why this is better, or is it just personal preference?

 

[victinivcreate1]

Wasn't sure if this should go in this thread or the general one, but in watching videos of Mewtwo players I notice that instead of RARing, some of the more notable players (SmashG0D and Emukiller, in this case) opt for b-turnarounds with the shadow ball instead. Is there a particular reason why this is better, or is it just personal preference?

Shadow ball potentially has the least ending lag if you cancel it, and a full charged one can send you flying backwards, aiding horizontal recovery.