The Lab - Mewtwo's Birthplace (Mechanics Thread)

[xXSciophobiaXx]

I've been farting around doing a pretty good "combo" that works pretty well on fastfallers, not so great on other characters.

Upthrow at low percent, sub 20% probibally. Fullhop up air and immediately start hover and chase with neutral air hover. If done properly you can catch them off of uair hit. Then, while having caught them in the neutral air, move slowly away from the side that your opponent occupies. Situation Example. If mewtwo faces left, opponent is on left side of mewtwo move slowly to the right. If opponent is behind mewtwo(still facing left), move slowly left. The movement left or right is done slowly while opponent is caught in the electrical effect. When neutral air finishes do up-air if opponent is in front (or above if you're lucky) and if mewtwo was facing left, opponent was behind mewtwo (on right) and you drifted left, hit opponent with bair.

This seems to work, is pretty flashy, but not a really true combo. Opponents can probibally SDI out of neutral air pretty easy, and the followup- aerial is somewhat difficult to land, but Im getting more consistent. Anyway its a great way to really start a stock with a great percentage build, and the last hit of the aerial should put them in a disadvantageous position.

 

[GeZ]

I've been farting around doing a pretty good "combo" that works pretty well on fastfallers, not so great on other characters.

Upthrow at low percent, sub 20% probibally. Fullhop up air and immediately start hover and chase with neutral air hover. If done properly you can catch them off of uair hit. Then, while having caught them in the neutral air, move slowly away from the side that your opponent occupies. Situation Example. If mewtwo faces left, opponent is on left side of mewtwo move slowly to the right. If opponent is behind mewtwo(still facing left), move slowly left. The movement left or right is done slowly while opponent is caught in the electrical effect. When neutral air finishes do up-air if opponent is in front (or above if you're lucky) and if mewtwo was facing left, opponent was behind mewtwo (on right) and you drifted left, hit opponent with bair.

This seems to work, is pretty flashy, but not a really true combo. Opponents can probibally SDI out of neutral air pretty easy, and the followup- aerial is somewhat difficult to land, but Im getting more consistent. Anyway its a great way to really start a stock with a great percentage build, and the last hit of the aerial should put them in a disadvantageous position.

It's a cool trick, but the problem is that Mewtwo eats most fast fallers on grab as is. In particular, the space animals can get combo'd and regrab'd for years. Falcon weeps openly as Mewtwo slaps him around with psychic energy, and Metaknight prays to his impotent gods as he's zero'd to death. I may be exaggerating but my point is, Mewtwo gets a lot off of Uthrow on fast fallers. That tech is pretty well developed already.

 

[StriderAaron360]

I guess U throw is the go to throw now lol

 

[BigHairyFart]

U-Throw has been my go-to throw for quite some time. at low %s it sets up for either a regrab, a combo, or a hover combo depending on character weight & fall speed.

 

[StriderAaron360]

What do you guys think about OOS Confusion? It comes out pretty fast and can be used on either side. It might also be handy against those pesky short hoppers.

 

[Rikana]

Why confusion oos..? Just grab.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Oos HC Aerial is better than oos confusion. I'd teleport oos before confusion.

 

[GeZ]

Why confusion oos..? Just grab.

Basically. Grab leads to *insert any move here* consistently.

 

[MetaKnight0]

mewtwo has a pretty fast jab crouch cancel

specifically on the first jab its about as fast as falco which is pretty good for a standard mewtwo gimmick

 

[GeZ]

I just got done playing too many games tonight and started incorporating WD Disable to great affect. Do you guys use that or find it not worth it?

 

[StriderAaron360]

I've been using it during my training sessions. I like it. It's a nice mix up along with WD confusion and WD d-tilt. D throw into dash dance into short hop confusion could work well too, since the short hop allows you to cover a little more ground.

Also, I've found that Mewtwo's down teleport instantly snaps onto ledges. So many edge guard tools!!

 

[Phan7om]

I found something strange... kinda like Teleport Scarring.

Its when you run off and teleport and instantly sweetspot into the ledge (here comes the cool part), but he completely misses the ledge and ends up right under it, gets a double jump back, and can teleport again. Ive only been able to consistently do it on Distant Planet and Smashville, it probably has no real use instead to look flashy when edgeguarding... but I wanted to let you guys know.

Idk this was probably even in Melee and just didnt find it or see anyone use it.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

I found something strange... kinda like Teleport Scarring.

Its when you run off and teleport and instantly sweetspot into the ledge (here comes the cool part), but he completely misses the ledge and ends up right under it, gets a double jump back, and can teleport again. Ive only been able to consistently do it on Distant Planet and Smashville, it probably has no real use instead to look flashy when edgeguarding... but I wanted to let you guys know.

Idk this was probably even in Melee and just didnt find it or see anyone use it.

Yeah you can do it but it's not really reliable. You can also edge cancel Teleport and you can Teleport (or do any action) right after, however the spacing is strict as hell.

 

[StriderAaron360]

What control scheme are you guys running? (hope this isn't off topic).

 

[Adelheid]

Also, I've found that Mewtwo's down teleport instantly snaps onto ledges. So many edge guard tools!!

It's better than that; you can snap to ledges by teleporting down-forward towards them while on solid ground. He just appears off the edge holding it, almost without regard for spacing or even angle.

Edit: Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JsV5dfSzgo

 

[Jade_Rock55]

What control scheme are you guys running? (hope this isn't off topic).

I use the wiimote and nunchuck since my brother uses our only classic controller.

The d pad

up:jump(helps me wavedash)
side:grab
down:down smash(to help with dacus,which I can not figure out with mewtwo).

Other than that I think everything is default.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

What control scheme are you guys running? (hope this isn't off topic).

L: Jump. Greater control over my Floating and Float Cancels.
Everything else is default.

Edit: About the teleport ledge hogging. Yes, all of this has been known since Melee. Doesn't hurt to inform people tho.

 

[Adelheid]

Edit: About the teleport ledge hogging. Yes, all of this has been known since Melee. Doesn't hurt to inform people tho.

Yeah, you could do it in Melee, but it's a lot more lenient than it was in melee though. Like, a LOT more lenient, spacing pretty much doesn't matter.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

Yeah, you could do it in Melee, but it's a lot more lenient than it was in melee though. Like, a LOT more lenient.

How much harder was it in Melee? Input wise.

 

[Adelheid]

How much harder was it in Melee? Input wise.

It's almost incomparable, isn't it? Yeah, you can sweetspot ledges with Teleport in Melee, but it's not going to snap you on to them for free regardless of angle and distance, making this much faster and more reliable. I have Melee up right now to double check if I just missed something all these years but this tech is definitely new to Project M, unless I'm just the absolute worst at everything (which, admittedly, is completely possible.)

 

[GeZ]

I just played a ****zillion matches at my girlfriends birthday party with Mewtwo and by the end made a few friends salty as hell. I've been finding more and more that Mewtwo is a character that can really capitalize on knowing your opponents options. I had a friend who's been getting into Link who only landed one arrow the whole match because I could tell when he was going to throw a projectile and confusion it right back at him. He quit at the last stock because I kept getting Dtilt, Grab, Dthrow, Tech chase, combo's and hard WD reads.

But the point I'm trying to get across is that I feel like M2 really REALLY lends himself to getting a good grasp of your opponents mindset and punishing them for being too familiar, or falling into comfortable habits, until they change them or die.

I also found a few new tech things that I'll post as I remember them, so there's that.

And lastly, to Adelheid, are you Adelheid Stark, the Persona 4 Arena player? It'd be a weird coincidence if you weren't, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Adelheid]

And lastly, to Adelheid, are you Adelheid Stark, the Persona 4 Arena player? It'd be a weird coincidence if you weren't, but stranger things have happened.

Yeah, I'm the same Adelheid more commonly known for P4A, Marvel, and GG. I haven't been involved with competitive smash in almost a decade but I'm getting trying to get back into it for Project M 3.0, haha. I just can't ignore a Mewtwo that is actually good.

 

[GeZ]

Yeah, I'm the same Adelheid more commonly known for P4A, Marvel, and GG. I haven't been involved with competitive smash in almost a decade but I'm getting trying to get back into it for Project M, haha.

Sweetness. I remember during my brief spat of Persona 4 Arena, I talked to you a bit after getting some matches in. In any case it's good to have you on the forums. Hopefully you can help broaden the M2 meta faster so we can have a better understanding of the character sooner.

 

[G13_Flux]

anybody started DJCing at all with M2 at all? it actually adds a lot of range to his attacks, especial bair and surprisingly fair. great for quick bursts of momentum in the opposite direction when hover might not get you there quick enough, and great for baiting purposes. also, teleport >instant hover at SH level gives M2 sooo much leverage over the stage. i feel like he is going to be absolutely dominant on stages like FD where characters dont have a lot of options for escape and mobility vertically.

 

[GeZ]

anybody started DJCing at all with M2 at all? it actually adds a lot of range to his attacks, especial bair and surprisingly fair. great for quick bursts of momentum in the opposite direction when hover might not get you there quick enough, and great for baiting purposes. also, teleport >instant hover at SH level gives M2 sooo much leverage over the stage. i feel like he is going to be absolutely dominant on stages like FD where characters dont have a lot of options for escape and mobility vertically.

I expected DJ cancelling to be a given. It's the only way I've been able to follow up a lot of moves and it gives him great versatility in his approach and follow ups. I agree on the teleport, instant hover, being a great tool, I just haven't been employing it much because I've been too lazy to try it. But I feel that it might be something more dominant at specific percents or against specific characters. For instance, when my opponents at high percents, I like to stay on the ground simply because of the ease of which M2 gets throws off of his Dtilt, and how well some throws kill.

What do you guys think about M2's ability to frustrate his opponent? In a lot of games I've played, I've got my opponent doing stupid stuff because they'd spent the last little while getting harassed by tiny Shadow Ball barrages, and getting Dtilt, Grab, Chucked back into the neutral spacing. I actually really like being in that position of the more level headed player, besides for the obvious reasons, because it makes your opponent not consider your options.

I'm also wondering what people are getting off of confusion. I have a lot of trouble comboing off of it, and use it more often as a mix up tool to snag my opponents sloppy approach and make them afraid to DI towards me off of it on account of Utilt. But in regards to follow ups I don't see what it grants you on most of the cast minus the space animals.

Also, a trick I started using a lot by the end of the night was covering platform teching with hovering through the platform with Dair. Mewtwo is big enough that it often covers tech in place and tech roll in one direction, and sets up for any of his other moves, as they're now popped up and you're hovering.

 

[xXSciophobiaXx]

Somebody start making some videos for mewtwo, matches or demonstrations of combos n the such. As far as I can tell for me, d throw does not set up for regrabs as well as I am hearing from these threads. Upthrow works well on fastfallers, but doesn't lead to any combo-ing unless they're very low % or a spacie. Maybe I just suck. To the LAB!

 

[GeZ]

Somebody start making some videos for mewtwo, matches or demonstrations of combos n the such. As far as I can tell for me, d throw does not set up for regrabs as well as I am hearing from these threads. Upthrow works well on fastfallers, but doesn't lead to any combo-ing unless they're very low % or a spacie. Maybe I just suck. To the LAB!

Dthrow doesn't necessarily always set up for regrabs but it can get you tech chases pretty consistently. Uthrow is honestly only a very good tool on fast fallers.

 

[G13_Flux]

well a lot of it is DI dependent, as well as character falling speed dependent, and percent dependent. i tend to face off against pikachu a lot (my roomate rarely plays anyone else) so im used to being forced to read his next action as opposed to getting an auto regrab as if i was facing against DK or someone else like that. havent messed around too much with confusion yet, although it seems very useful in putting your opponent right into tech chace position on platforms if you get them below it. looks like it could be followed up well with a uair, utlilt, or fair. gonna hve to mess around with it more.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Uthrow can kill on light characters at high percents

 

[Vale]

Short hop forwards --> hover has been working as a decent bait for me when people think I'm coming in with an aerial. Does anyone else do this?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I only fight computers so not sure about humans.

Confusion->fair->djc fair seems to work than teleport and use uair large hitbox.

 

[GeZ]

Uthrow can kill on light characters at high percents

Well that and Bthrow are a given.

Short hop forwards --> hover has been working as a decent bait for me when people think I'm coming in with an aerial. Does anyone else do this?

I've used this a bit. You just have to be careful of your opponent getting a read on what you're doing. My buddy who plays Ganon would punish the hell out of me for falling into habits that you would otherwise think were tricky. So my advice is to just keep doing different things. M2 may not have the strongest tools but used correctly and confusingly your opponent would be hard pressed to say you're not psychic.

 

[BigHairyFart]

So apparently an aerial Confusion(at least I think it's confusion, whichever one is Side-B) will drag characters through solid platforms straight down. I went & tested this, & it looks to be a good way to gimp an edgegaurder on Skyloft or Lylat Cruise. Testing other stages now...

EDIT: Tested it, & it only seems to work on Lylat Cruise, Skyloft, & Skyworld. Basically, it drags them through it stage, then throws them up, so if the stage is solid, they will bounce back down, unless they tech.

 

[Adelheid]

So apparently an aerial Confusion(at least I think it's confusion, whichever one is Side-B) will drag characters through solid platforms straight down. I went & tested this, & it looks to be a good way to gimp an edgegaurder on Skyloft or Lylat Cruise. Testing other stages now...

EDIT: Tested it, & it only seems to work on Lylat Cruise, Skyloft, & Skyworld. Basically, it drags them through it stage, then throws them up, so if the stage is solid, they will bounce back down, unless they tech.

Yeah, this is old melee tech, but the stagespike can make it better for project M in a lot of cases. It also works on pokemon stadium too if your spacing is right.

 

[BigHairyFart]

Yeah, this is old melee tech, but the stagespike can make it better for project M in a lot of cases. It also works on pokemon stadium too if your spacing is right.

I tried Pokemon Stadium, but couldn't get it. I didn't test PS2, but later in a match against a bot, I KO'd Ness with it twice. Also, I never played Melee competitively, & even then, I only played Link.

 

[teluoborg]

So, is there any use for DJC in PM ? I've been screwing aroung a bit and it feels like Hover does everything DJC does but better.

 

[BigHairyFart]

DJC is easier. And by easier, I mean anytime I try to hover an attack, I wind up DJC'ing anyways :/

 

[StriderAaron360]

I tried Pokemon Stadium, but couldn't get it. I didn't test PS2, but later in a match against a bot, I KO'd Ness with it twice. Also, I never played Melee competitively, & even then, I only played Link.

Yeah man it works on PS2. I did a video about stages for stage spiking

 

[Kneato]

So I figured out Hover Canceled aerials pretty well. I call it HaCking.

 

[StriderAaron360]

So I figured out Hover Canceled aerials pretty well. I call it HaCking.

A little execution heavy, but I like it. It might be better than L cancelling maybe