The Lab - Mewtwo's Birthplace (Mechanics Thread)

[Vale]

I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for people to post any technical things they find out about Mewtwo, such as general combos, advanced techniques, useful mindgames, and generic ideas on how to play (the neutral game/reocvering/etc.). After a while, I'll organize the information from this thread and create a guide, unless somebody else would like to do that.

Some generic questions to start things off: which form of recovery do you find yourself using the most? Hover and double jump appear to cover about the same distance. Is one way more optimal than the other?
Do you find yourself using grounded teleport? For approaching, it looks like a short-hop teleport left/right saves considerable time.

Contribute whatever tips and tricks you guys find out! We also have the matchup thread for more specific knowledge, which can be viewed here: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mewtwo-mu-thread-that-kinda-rhymes.343572/

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On recovery: If you press left/right off of the ledges on Battlefield, Teleport takes you to the nearby platform with nearly no endlag. If you instead jump immediately and teleport to the left/right, you'll end up in the center of Battlefield. Jumping back a bit first leaves options open. The move also appears to have that "wall riding" effect (not sure if there's a more official term) on stages such as Final Destination, allowing teleport to take you inwards towards the stage.

I figured I should include this as well. Here's a list of damage on fresh moves.

Spoiler

jab1 - 6%
jab2 - 2% per hit
dash attack - 9% strong hit, 6% weak hit

ftilt - 8%
dtilt - 5% at tip, 8% in mid, 9% at base (more damage the closer Mewtwo is)
Utilt - 5-6% around the tip, 8-10% around base

uncharged fsmash - 12% at base, 20% at tip (more damage the farther away Mewtwo is)
fully charged fsmash - 16% at base, 27% at tip
uncharged usmash - 17% (eight hits, 1% per each initial hit and 10% final hit) initial hits pull in
fully charged usmash - 23% (1% per each initial hit and 16% final hit). initial hits pull in
uncharged dsmash - 15-17% I think I saw a 7% weak hit, but not sure if I'm remembering correctly.
charged dsmash - 23% strong hit, 17% weak hit

nair - 1 damage per hit. maximum 17(?)%.
fair - 14%
bair - 11%
dair - 15-16%
uair - 10-11% weak hits, 14% at tip

nb (charge dependent) - 3%, 6%, 12%, 14%, 16%, 25%
nb (while charging) - 0-1% per hit
side-b - 10%
down-b - 1%

fthrow - 13% (five 1% hits, then one 8% hit)
bthrow - 11%
dthrow - 11% (two hits, 5% then 6%)
uthrow - 12%

 

[Ogopogo]

One useful technique is Teleporting, and then using Hover. This is almost impossible with tap-jump on, though.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Idk about that man, I have tap jump on, and I've done it almost every time lol.

 

[Vale]

What situations would you use that in? I use tap jump, and after a bit of testing, I'm able to hover consistently out of Teleport going up, diagonally up, and to the side (if I land in the air). I currently input up-b, choose the direction I want, and then hover right when I appear. The one that seems to be giving me trouble is SH Teleport horizontally --> hover, which I believe to be because I end up hovering into the ground. What are the benefits to this over a quick aerial?

 

[Ogopogo]

I dunno, maybe I just suck at hovering. I have a problem with hovering into the ground, haha.

Hover -> Bair excels at knocking people away from the ledge. Makes me think of Ivy's Fair/Bair.

 

[Vale]

Is hover bair similar to how Peach can edgeguard by just floating next to the ledge and stopping the attempt with her high-priority aerials?

 

[Ogopogo]

I suppose so. I don't know about bair's priority, but I know about its reach.

 

[GeZ]

I think I've got a good deal of stuff to brain dump here so I'll get started and update as I remember it.

First off, I've been trying to find optimal options after landing Down B and so far I've arrived at Dsmash for killing or grab for follow ups. They seem to be the best for these things respectively as Dsmash requires the least specific positioning and hits hard as hell, while Grab really leads to all of Mewtwo's options.

Next, I was inspecting what kind of barrages or pressure Mewtwo can launch out of Hover, and I found that Bair can be machine gun'd into the opponents face about 3-4 times before hover ends. This works well as it lets him space and harass against people on the ground, while completely bullying a lot of characters in the air, and outright killing those who are too far off stage.
Alternatively if you land a Fair, Mewtwo can carry people upwards chaining Fairs while Hovering up. I've killed a few people by landing an Fair and then pulling them up to the top of the screen with two more Fairs while hovering upwards, teleport usually setting up for an Fair kill to follow up hovers end.

Dtilt. As far as I can tell, Dtilt too god. Landing it at the mid point of the tail leads to grabs, Ftilt, spacing with Dsmash/ Fsmash, and more Dtilt for funsies. My favorite trick on heavy characters (I'm eyeing Roy with his posse of spacies) is Dtilt into Dtilt into Grab- Dthrow into Dtilt into Fair (a lot of fancy tech inbetween) into death.

SH Teleport behind someone then starting to charge neutral B is wonderful. Catches people off guard, pressures shield, often gives you a grab by canceling charge and turning around, and (of course) charges neutral B incrementally. Fun trick. Neat to mix into your tool set.

Fthrow can lead to combos off of teleport if they end up still on stage. I've found that Fthrow, teleport forward, Fair works on a few members of the cast while Fthrow, teleport forward, hover lets you chase tech's and harass wakeup effectively.

 

[Vale]

Is the fthrow --> teleport --> fair based on weight (which characters does it work on)?
Is that long chain on heavy characters escapable with DI, or have you found it to work consistently?

 

[Ogopogo]

What are some followups to M2's grabs?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

What are some followups to M2's grabs?

Depending on the character, damage, and fall speed, the old low-damage melee combo of dthrow->fair->regrab still works, particularly on fastfallers.
Nair is easily combo'd into and out of if you can L-cancel and read the DI well.

 

[GeZ]

Is the fthrow --> teleport --> fair based on weight (which characters does it work on)?
Is that long chain on heavy characters escapable with DI, or have you found it to work consistently?

I think it is, I had it working on characters of medium weight, but I'll go into the lab right now to confirm this. The long chain is difficult to escape with DI as Mewtwo can follow their DI with Hover and Teleport pretty easily.

 

[McNinja]

What DOESN'T Mewtwo's grab lead into is a better question.

Dthrow sets up for everything!

Of course everything being character and percent dependent.

 

[iLink]

How are you guys doing anything off dthrow? Everyone I play just DI's away and they are way too far for me to do anything regardless of percent.

 

[bountyxhunted]

with certain characters dthrow is a guaranteed fair

 

[Vale]

I'm finding it easier to link attacks together in matches rather than actually have training mode tell me I'm performing a combo.
Dair on a grounded opponent at medium-high percents follows into an aerial pretty well. You can also use a second dair to tech chase.
Thoughts on using Hover close to the ground in place of dashdancing occasionally? Hovering towards them and then back or up and throwing out attacks that you can hover cancel seems like it could be viable. I know Peach can float around and throw out attacks like nair with decent priority, but we have to fear losing our double jump. How much are you guys using hover in the neutral game, instead of just to recover or follow up combos?
I'm liking hover uair more than bair right now, because I seem to be able to follow it up more consistently, especially at mid percentages.

 

[GeZ]

I'm finding it easier to link attacks together in matches rather than actually have training mode tell me I'm performing a combo.
Dair on a grounded opponent at medium-high percents follows into an aerial pretty well. You can also use a second dair to tech chase.
Thoughts on using Hover close to the ground in place of dashdancing occasionally? Hovering towards them and then back or up and throwing out attacks that you can hover cancel seems like it could be viable. I know Peach can float around and throw out attacks like nair with decent priority, but we have to fear losing our double jump. How much are you guys using hover in the neutral game, instead of just to recover or follow up combos?
I'm liking hover uair more than bair right now, because I seem to be able to follow it up more consistently, especially at mid percentages.

I don't think hover is amazing in the neutral game. I think it's good for applying pressure, but way too vulnerable if you're just floating around. It's like an invitation to swat you. Also are you guys experiencing any Johns over Mewtwo from your friends? This guy I play with and his brother won't play against my Mewtwo after a day because they think he's overpowered.

 

[Red(SP)]

One useful technique is Teleporting, and then using Hover. This is almost impossible with tap-jump on, though.

Actually, the guy I played was able to do it consecutively.
It was pretty interesting, but I wanna see where I can take it when I practice.

 

[Vale]

I'm the most competitive player in my group (there's only one other player who actively tries to get better), so I face that problem with Peach, Mario, Ness, Lucario, Fox, Ivysaur, Marth, and basically anyone else who isn't Captain Falcon (I'm really bad with him for some reason).
I haven't gotten to play against many people with Mewtwo yet, but I'm expecting them to complain about dtilt and whenever I decide to overextend on edgeguarding.

EDIT:
Alright. It seems like most people don't have a problem with tap jump being on when trying to Teleport -> Hover. It probably just takes a minute of practice. Is there a certain direction that is supposed to be more difficult?

 

[Vale]

Tested on Fox at 60%: Mewtwo can Ken Combo (hover fair --> hover up dair).

 

[Haloedhero]

M

I don't think hover is amazing in the neutral game. I think it's good for applying pressure, but way too vulnerable if you're just floating around. It's like an invitation to swat you. Also are you guys experiencing any Johns over Mewtwo from your friends? This guy I play with and his brother won't play against my Mewtwo after a day because they think he's overpowered.

Maybe try to gently remind them that it's not like he's a completely made up character? Shell and I ported his hitbox values over from Melee by hand and then either left them or marginally buffed them, and the same goes for everything else about him. Maybe if you tell them how closely he was matched up to Melee Mewtwo, they'll come around.

 

[GeZ]

M
Maybe try to gently remind them that it's not like he's a completely made up character? Shell and I ported his hitbox values over from Melee by hand and then either left them or marginally buffed them, and the same goes for everything else about him. Maybe if you tell them how closely he was matched up to Melee Mewtwo, they'll come around.

They never played Melee, so I've been trying to explain what that entails, but they're pretty dead set I'm afraid. Maybe they'll get over it with time.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

You can Hover OOS ---> HC Aerial. Just throwing that out there.
HC Uair combos so well, with more horizontal and vertical range than Fair.
HC Uair --> Grab can easily gain you 50% or more on someone.

Still working.

 

[Ogopogo]

Actually, the guy I played was able to do it consecutively.
It was pretty interesting, but I wanna see where I can take it when I practice.

It's a pizza cake if you do it while the stick is already up, but when the stick is neutral? A little harder.

 

[DrinkingFood]

It's a pizza cake if you do it while the stick is already up, but when the stick is neutral? A little harder.

Yeah that's what I was talking about
keeping the stick up in anticipation of teleport is just inefficient, if for any reason you need to move it to the lower half of the circle it's going to take longer
I think you can do it by tilting the stick up when you want to do it, it's just that every part of my body tells me not to do it that way because in melee, that shortens the teleport.

 

[Smo]

I'm not sure which characters this works on (I tried it on Falco, didn't work, but it did work with Ivy), but Nair can cut through some projectiles with ease. If you're playing a campy opponent you can dive through their projectile with a Nair and hit them with the end of Nair (but as I say, it doesn't seem to work with all projectiles).

 

[Premaximum]

I'm not sure which characters this works on (I tried it on Falco, didn't work, but it did work with Ivy), but Nair can cut through some projectiles with ease. If you're playing a campy opponent you can dive through their projectile with a Nair and hit them with the end of Nair (but as I say, it doesn't seem to work with all projectiles).

This has been my go-to tactic against Olimar. Doesn't work on yellow piks because they're immune to lightning, though. Also working on side-special to throw them back at him, but the timing's difficult.

 

[Ogopogo]

Yeah that's what I was talking about
keeping the stick up in anticipation of teleport is just inefficient, if for any reason you need to move it to the lower half of the circle it's going to take longer
I think you can do it by tilting the stick up when you want to do it, it's just that every part of my body tells me not to do it that way because in melee, that shortens the teleport.

Well, what I meant was that it was hard to not do a double-jump when putting the stick into the up position in order to do a Teleport.

But I guess yours makes sense too...?

 

[Shore Top]

Double jump canceled U-air out of dash is amazing! U-air and U-tilt are really wonderful. Bair is insane as well. I find Fair really precise and more difficult to land.

 

[McNinja]

Also are you guys experiencing any Johns over Mewtwo from your friends? This guy I play with and his brother won't play against my Mewtwo after a day because they think he's overpowered.

Just make them play against your mewtwo in melee. That's what I did and my friends shut up pretty quick when I still beat them.

 

[Ogopogo]

How are you guys doing anything off dthrow? Everyone I play just DI's away and they are way too far for me to do anything regardless of percent.

Same here, it's impossible to land a fair off of a dthrow.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

You can also ledgestall by shadow ball canceling repeatedly until you reach full charge.

 

[StriderAaron360]

Anybody find any confusion combos?

 

[Vale]

utilt, uair, and running usmash can work depending on character/%. Not sure where to take the combo from there, though. I think I got Confusion --> utilt --> ftilt to work once.

 

[StriderAaron360]

utilt, uair, and running usmash can work depending on character/%. Not sure where to take the combo from there, though. I think I got Confusion --> utilt --> ftilt to work once.

Yeah that seems too be working on Fox at low percents

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Same here, it's impossible to land a fair off of a dthrow.

Well I wouldn't really try to combo too much out of it, I don't think you can get much out of it anyway. Maybe a dtilt into a regrab, or dtilt to ftilt, but I think its more optimal to go for tech chase with down throw.

 

[Jade_Rock55]

Doesn't a short hopped fair work after confusion?I just like shadow claw cause it looks cool and does a good amount of knockback.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Doesn't a short hopped fair work after confusion?I just like shadow claw cause it looks cool and does a good amount of knockback.

If you catch an opponent in the air with Confusion, you'll both fall straight down until Mewtwo finishes the throw. Mewtwo-cide, anyone?

 

[Rikana]

I don't think you can suicide with them often seeing as confusion pops the opponent up.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Yeah I don't think its a good idea to try and suicide with it, now figuring out the best stages to drag the opponent under and stage spike them, that would be useful. So far I found that lylat and skyworld are good stages for this, but battlefield doesn't work anymore, or at least well, because of its more forgiving ledges. I think rumble falls would work too, and maybe smashville. I'll test it after I'm done looking at wario stuff in brawl box.