The Koopa Wizard: Kamek for Smash Switch thread

PeridotGX

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#81
We still have a few iconic villains left that are not in the roster like Pig Ganon, Skull Kid, Porky, Kamek, Black Shadow, Medusa, Hades, and Wart.
Really? aside from Kamek, the only notable villians left are Ganon, Skull Kid and Meowth (also Eggman if we count 3rd Parties). The others aren't that notable.
 
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#82
Really? aside from Kamek, the only notable villians left are Ganon, Skull Kid and Meowth (also Eggman if we count 3rd Parties). The others aren't that notable.
Regardless of what you think, Porky is an iconic Nintendo villain. Probably the most iconic Nintendo villain behind the ones that already are in the roster, Pig Ganon, and Skull Kid. Black Shadow, Medusa, Hades, and Wart are not as notable like you said, but are really the only options left after Pig Ganon, Skull Kid, and Porky when it cames to Nintendo villains.

3rd party villains reps are SUPER unlikely, because if we are not getting any co-protagonist in the existing 3rd party franchises that are in the roster, then we are not getting any villains from those franchises either in the roster.
 
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#84
I want Kamek just as much as anyone else but I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here - characters who are already represented by a cameo on a Smash stage are typically prevented from becoming a fully fledged fighter in Smash, AFAIK. I’m thinking of Birdo, Captain Toad, Viridi and Kamek (or at least Magikoopa).

Even if the Magikoopa shown onstage is just a generic one, Kamek is still physically represented in Smash as he is near-identical to the one shown. That works against guys. Are there any examples of fighters that also show up on a stage?

Pig Ganon is part of Ganondorf’s new final Smash, Wart is a stage cameo, Skull Kid is an assist trophy and Meowth is a Pokemon item. Porky was a Subspace Emissary boss and might return in this way in World of Light. These villains already have some form of presence in the game.

What you count as notable is entirely subjective for villains. Medusa has original NES and Game Boy history with the start of the Kid Icarus franchise which counts for a lot with a game like Smash - they like the old school stuff. Hades is the newer boy on the block so he appeals to the younger Nintendo’s fans. I could see them released as one character - one DLC, with Medusa as the main and Hades as her echo in the same manner as Simon and Richter Belmont. That leaves Black Shadow, who’s an odd one - he’s old school too but I think he was just about hanging on as an echo seeing as he’s from a racing game. He’s managed to climb up the Smash ranks from trophy to sticker to trophy but never quite made it in as even an AT like Samurai Goro from the same series so I don’t know what they have planned for him.

Kamek has history in Nintendo’s most well-known franchise and a leading part as nemesis in a spin-off franchise that needs more representation in a Smash. The only thing holding him back is his existing presence on a Smash stage.
 
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GoodGrief741

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#85
I want Kamek just as much as anyone else but I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here - characters who are already represented by a cameo on a Smash stage are typically prevented from becoming a fully fledged fighter in Smash, AFAIK. I’m thinking of Birdo, Captain Toad, Viridi and Kamek (or at least Magikoopa).

Even if the Magikoopa shown onstage is just a generic one, Kamek is still physically represented in Smash as he is near-identical to the one shown. That works against guys. Are there any examples of fighters that also show up on a stage?

Pig Ganon is part of Ganondorf’s new final Smash, Wart is a stage cameo, Skull Kid is an assist trophy and Meowth is a Pokemon item. Porky was a Subspace Emissary boss and might return in this way in World of Light. These villains already have some form of presence in the game.

What you count as notable is entirely subjective for villains. Medusa has original NES and Game Boy history with the start of the Kid Icarus franchise which counts for a lot with a game like Smash - they like the old school stuff. Hades is the newer boy on the block so he appeals to the younger Nintendo’s fans. I could see them released as one character - one DLC, with Medusa as the main and Hades as her echo in the same manner as Simon and Richter Belmont. That leaves Black Shadow, who’s an odd one - he’s old school too but I think he was just about hanging on as an echo seeing as he’s from a racing game. He’s managed to climb up the Smash ranks from trophy to sticker to trophy but never quite made it in as even an AT like Samurai Goro from the same series so I don’t know what they have planned for him.

Kamek has history in Nintendo’s most well-known franchise and a leading part as nemesis in a spin-off franchise that needs more representation in a Smash. The only thing holding him back is his existing presence on a Smash stage.
The most egregious one is Toon Link. There’s also Dedede in a 64 stage (and Charizard as well iirc).
 

UserKev

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#86
I want Kamek just as much as anyone else but I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here - characters who are already represented by a cameo on a Smash stage are typically prevented from becoming a fully fledged fighter in Smash, AFAIK. I’m thinking of Birdo, Captain Toad, Viridi and Kamek (or at least Magikoopa).

Even if the Magikoopa shown onstage is just a generic one, Kamek is still physically represented in Smash as he is near-identical to the one shown. That works against guys. Are there any examples of fighters that also show up on a stage?

Pig Ganon is part of Ganondorf’s new final Smash, Wart is a stage cameo, Skull Kid is an assist trophy and Meowth is a Pokemon item. Porky was a Subspace Emissary boss and might return in this way in World of Light. These villains already have some form of presence in the game.

What you count as notable is entirely subjective for villains. Medusa has original NES and Game Boy history with the start of the Kid Icarus franchise which counts for a lot with a game like Smash - they like the old school stuff. Hades is the newer boy on the block so he appeals to the younger Nintendo’s fans. I could see them released as one character - one DLC, with Medusa as the main and Hades as her echo in the same manner as Simon and Richter Belmont. That leaves Black Shadow, who’s an odd one - he’s old school too but I think he was just about hanging on as an echo seeing as he’s from a racing game. He’s managed to climb up the Smash ranks from trophy to sticker to trophy but never quite made it in as even an AT like Samurai Goro from the same series so I don’t know what they have planned for him.

Kamek has history in Nintendo’s most well-known franchise and a leading part as nemesis in a spin-off franchise that needs more representation in a Smash. The only thing holding him back is his existing presence on a Smash stage.
This is a good argument as possibly Kamek's real competition but I don't think it completely rules them out. Ridley was also a background cameo. Kamek just need more support.
 

Arcadenik

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#87
Really? aside from Kamek, the only notable villians left are Ganon, Skull Kid and Meowth (also Eggman if we count 3rd Parties). The others aren't that notable.
Exactly. I cannot agree that Porky, Black Shadow, Medusa, Hades, and Wart are "iconic".

While Porky is a major villain in the EarthBound series, the EarthBound series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are only three games in the series and the last game came out in 2006.

While Black Shadow may be one of the major villains in the F-Zero series, the F-Zero series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are like, what, 5 or 6 games in the series and the last game came out in 2004.

Medusa and Hades may be major villains in the Kid Icarus series, the Kid Icarus series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are only three games in the series and the last game came out in 2012 and before that, in 1991 in the West and 1986 in Japan.

Wart is not a major villain in the Mario series. He is not a recurring Mario character. He is best known for being the villain of Super Mario Bros. 2 and that's his only contribution to the Mario series. Even a mini-boss (Birdo) from the same game is a recurring mini-boss in RPG games and a recurring playable character in spin-off games.

I feel that the only notable Nintendo villains left are Kamek, Birdo, Skull Kid, Ganon, and even the Team Rocket trio (Nintendo acknowledged that the most famous members of Team Rocket are Jessie, James, and Meowth).

Kamek and Birdo are from the Mario series, a major Nintendo franchise. Skull Kid and Ganon are from the Zelda franchise, another major Nintendo franchise. Team Rocket are from the Pokémon series, obviously a major Nintendo franchise.
 

UserKev

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#88
Exactly. I cannot agree that Porky, Black Shadow, Medusa, Hades, and Wart are "iconic".

While Porky is a major villain in the EarthBound series, the EarthBound series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are only three games in the series and the last game came out in 2006.

While Black Shadow may be one of the major villains in the F-Zero series, the F-Zero series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are like, what, 5 or 6 games in the series and the last game came out in 2004.

Medusa and Hades may be major villains in the Kid Icarus series, the Kid Icarus series itself isn't a major Nintendo franchise. There are only three games in the series and the last game came out in 2012 and before that, in 1991 in the West and 1986 in Japan.

Wart is not a major villain in the Mario series. He is not a recurring Mario character. He is best known for being the villain of Super Mario Bros. 2 and that's his only contribution to the Mario series. Even a mini-boss (Birdo) from the same game is a recurring mini-boss in RPG games and a recurring playable character in spin-off games.

I feel that the only notable Nintendo villains left are Kamek, Birdo, Skull Kid, Ganon, and even the Team Rocket trio (Nintendo acknowledged that the most famous members of Team Rocket are Jessie, James, and Meowth).

Kamek and Birdo are from the Mario series, a major Nintendo franchise. Skull Kid and Ganon are from the Zelda franchise, another major Nintendo franchise. Team Rocket are from the Pokémon series, obviously a major Nintendo franchise.
I'll give Porky props for his presence, he is iconic. He's the 2nd face of Mother, his themes are even and Brawl made him more known. He will always look familiar to fans but this isn't Porky's thread.
 

DOTBHDD

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#89
Why would Poochy be any competition to Kamek? Kamek appeared in more titles.
He's the only other major Yoshi character I could think of. He'd honestly work amazingly well as an assist trophy.

It bothers me so much how little the Yoshi series has in Smash. Kamek as a playable and Poochy as an assist would fill that noticable gap pretty damn well.
 

UserKev

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#90
He's the only other major Yoshi character I could think of. He'd honestly work amazingly well as an assist trophy.

It bothers me so much how little the Yoshi series has in Smash. Kamek as a playable and Poochy as an assist would fill that noticable gap pretty damn well.
That's brilliant, I'm dumbfounded I never thought of it. Poochy should definitely be an assist trophy. Yoshi does feel isolated in Smash the more you think about it.

He barely coexists in Super Mario Bros.
 

Smasherfan88

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#91
Regardless of what you think, Porky is an iconic Nintendo villain. Probably the most iconic Nintendo villain behind the ones that already are in the roster, Pig Ganon, and Skull Kid. Black Shadow, Medusa, Hades, and Wart are not as notable like you said, but are really the only options left after Pig Ganon, Skull Kid, and Porky when it cames to Nintendo villains.

3rd party villains reps are SUPER unlikely, because if we are not getting any co-protagonist in the existing 3rd party franchises that are in the roster, then we are not getting any villains from those franchises either in the roster.
I think you forget Castlevania has two protagonists... also I'd take that back before Sakurai erases yet another fan rule that 3rd parties can't have villain reps. Cause we all know it'll happen eventually, maybe not this game or DLC, maybe not the NES, but it will eventually happen.

Though personally I don't think we need Pig Ganon as he is Ganondorf's final smash, Skull Kid is an assist trophy again, honestly I think Wart at most would be an assist trophy, there's just a lot more villains than him that are iconic than him, personally though I think Skull Kid will be a fighter sooner or later, just not this game, Black Shadow even though I want him, he won't get in till Ganondorf loses all traces of Captain Falcon in his moveset and Black Shadow obtains those instead and becomes a Captain Falcon echo fighter, I can see Porky, Hades, Medusa, and Kamek as all viable DLC candidates though, Kamek with the most chance since well... he's the most used out of those three, but we all know relevancy is no longer a problem with K Rool.

Anyways back to Kamek, as this isn't the Nintendo villain general support thread.
 

Smasherfan88

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#92
That's brilliant, I'm dumbfounded I never thought of it. Poochy should definitely be an assist trophy. Yoshi does feel isolated in Smash the more you think about it.

He barely coexists in Super Mario Bros.
Fighters = Kamek, Yoshi

AT: Poochy.

That'd be enough representation for me, but since the baby versions of characters are considered Yoshi characters I think they'll be getting Spirits, at least Baby Mario is based off of the scrolling part of the spirits mode on the website, if not... well we'll just have to wait till next game.
 
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#93
Fighters = Kamek, Yoshi

AT: Poochy.

That'd be enough representation for me, but since the baby versions of characters are considered Yoshi characters I think they'll be getting Spirits, at least Baby Mario is based off of the scrolling part of the spirits mode on the website, if not... well we'll just have to wait till next game.
After Piranha Plant; I think playing as Shy Guy could be fun too.
 

DOTBHDD

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#94
Fighters = Kamek, Yoshi

AT: Poochy.

That'd be enough representation for me, but since the baby versions of characters are considered Yoshi characters I think they'll be getting Spirits, at least Baby Mario is based off of the scrolling part of the spirits mode on the website, if not... well we'll just have to wait till next game.
Yeah. The babies should definitely be apart of the Yoshi series.

So... moveset.

I really like the idea of Kamek spawning Shy Guys on the battlefield field as a side special, him shooting standard magic as a neutral special (the shapes), teleporting to the other side of the character as a down special (like a counter), and his iconic broom as an up special.
 
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#95
I think you forget Castlevania has two protagonists... also I'd take that back before Sakurai erases yet another fan rule that 3rd parties can't have villain reps. Cause we all know it'll happen eventually, maybe not this game or DLC, maybe not the NES, but it will eventually happen.

Though personally I don't think we need Pig Ganon as he is Ganondorf's final smash, Skull Kid is an assist trophy again, honestly I think Wart at most would be an assist trophy, there's just a lot more villains than him that are iconic than him, personally though I think Skull Kid will be a fighter sooner or later, just not this game, Black Shadow even though I want him, he won't get in till Ganondorf loses all traces of Captain Falcon in his moveset and Black Shadow obtains those instead and becomes a Captain Falcon echo fighter, I can see Porky, Hades, Medusa, and Kamek as all viable DLC candidates though, Kamek with the most chance since well... he's the most used out of those three, but we all know relevancy is no longer a problem with K Rool.

Anyways back to Kamek, as this isn't the Nintendo villain general support thread.
I should have said ''If we are not getting any UNIQUE co-protagonist in the existing 3rd party franchises that are in the roster, then we are not getting any villains from those franchises either in the roster.'' By the way, I didn't forget that Richter and Ken are in the game, I just forgot to point out that there isn't any 2nd 3rd party reps from the same series with a unique moveset yet in the game. I think the first character that will get that treatment is Tails because of him being the 2nd most iconic co-protagonist in gaming after Luigi.
 

Luigifan18

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#96
I should have said ''If we are not getting any UNIQUE co-protagonist in the existing 3rd party franchises that are in the roster, then we are not getting any villains from those franchises either in the roster.'' By the way, I didn't forget that Richter and Ken are in the game, I just forgot to point out that there isn't any 2nd 3rd party reps from the same series with a unique moveset yet in the game. I think the first character that will get that treatment is Tails because of him being the 2nd most iconic co-protagonist in gaming after Luigi.
...Why are you talking about 3rd-party characters in Kamek's thread?
 
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#98
...Why are you talking about 3rd-party characters in Kamek's thread?
I was talking with somebody about what villains that Nintendo has left they could put in Smash, and they said something along the lines like there isn't anybody else notable left besides Kamek, Pig Ganon, and Skull Kid on what Nintendo really has left for villains. They also mention 3rd party villain reps, and I was telling them how unlikely that is.
 
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Kamek should be brought up more in Smash speculation. He's been becoming increasingly prominent lately, and the Yoshi series is getting Crafted World in Spring 2019. In terms of first party candidates, he's up there.

It would be cool to have Kamek in Smash and have him utilize some of the enemy mooks like Shy Guys in his moveset.
 

UserKev

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Its because Kamek is in the unrealized historic character syndrome. He's a "In your face" candidate while he still manages to stay one of the most incredibly unexpected newcomers like Cranky Kong.
 

UserKev

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A duo... character? Like Rosalina and Luma!?

Or a duo reveal? Like separate characters revealed in the same trailer?
A duo Event Match. A duo reveal would be great, to. Like Cranky Kong drinking a potion that let's him revert back to his primal self, his Final Smash that, the potion was theoretically a gift from Kamek. Both are elderly aged characters so they'd definitely have some merits of getting along. A cranky or bitter partnership.
 
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DOTBHDD

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A duo Event Match. A duo reveal would be great, to. Like Cranky Kong drinking a potion that let's him revert back to his primal self, his Final Smash that, the potion was theoretically a gift from Kamek. Both are elderly aged characters so they'd definitely have some merits of getting along. A cranky or bitter partnership.
Y'know, I've never paired Cranky Kong with Kamek before in my life.

I'm starting to wonder what Kamek's role would be in Yoshi's Crafted World. I hope we get a boss fight from him. Having Baby Bowser be the final boss again would be uninspired.
 

DOTBHDD

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Jokes on you; my exclusive sources are saying the final boss...
is Baby Kamek
The depressing thing is... I'd take that over Baby Boswer.

I don't think Kamek will be the final boss but I hope he gets various boss fights throughout the game like in Yoshi's New Island. Or at least one major standalone fight. His magic can be used creatively for decent boss fights.
 

Smasherfan88

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The depressing thing is... I'd take that over Baby Boswer.

I don't think Kamek will be the final boss but I hope he gets various boss fights throughout the game like in Yoshi's New Island. Or at least one major standalone fight. His magic can be used creatively for decent boss fights.
Well, seeming as he is seen as the main antagonist of the series I'm sure he'll at least get one... hopefully.
 

UserKev

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Baby Bowser is extremely limited. There isn't much else you can do with the character. Its still hard to imagine a replacement Yoshi Island boss tho. Kamek would feel a reversed forced if not done right. Baby Bowser would feel repetitive and adult Bowser is plain overused. The only final bosses I can see is the spike boss or the raven. Both are theoretically power hungry characters.
 

DOTBHDD

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Well, seeming as he is seen as the main antagonist of the series I'm sure he'll at least get one... hopefully.
So Kamek has had the biggest "main antagonist" role in Yoshi's New Island, being the most fought boss in the game. He's very much like Bower Jr. in New Super Mario Bros. I take it this game will be where most of his moveset is pulled.

Kamek was downgraded heavily in Yoshi's Wooly World to being just cutscene appearances.

So depending on whoever is making Yoshi's Crafted World, he could either be a major boss character again or just cutscene important. However; he'll still most likely be the main antagonist yet again.
 

Smasherfan88

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So, I saw the datamine and Kamek is grouped in with the Mario spirits... rather than the Yoshi ones...

Honestly I don't think we'll ever get Kamek until the development team realizes Kamek is a unique character that debuted in Yoshi's Island and not the generic Magikoopa enemy that debuted in Super Mario World, at least for the west anyways.
 

Shenron 97

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I definitely see the potential of Kamek as a Smash fighter. He’s an evil wizard that can manipulate the environment to suit his purposes. I’m also playing through Yoshi’s Island for the first time, and he has so much personality it’s crazy. He’s a koopa version of the wicked witch of the west, and I love it!
 

UserKev

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I definitely see the potential of Kamek as a Smash fighter. He’s an evil wizard that can manipulate the environment to suit his purposes. I’m also playing through Yoshi’s Island for the first time, and he has so much personality it’s crazy. He’s a koopa version of the wicked witch of the west, and I love it!
I don't think "evil" is the right word to sum up Kamek's appeal. He just does his own thing for the good of Bowser that's problematic for Yoshi.
 

Shenron 97

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Kidnapping babies isn’t a neutral action. Plus, he raised Bowser into the diabolical Koopa King. Kamek is the arch rival of Yoshi, and has served as a mentor to Bowser. That’s pretty evil.
 

UserKev

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Kidnapping babies isn’t a neutral action. Plus, he raised Bowser into the diabolical Koopa King. Kamek is the arch rival of Yoshi, and has served as a mentor to Bowser. That’s pretty evil.
But Kamek isn't as "e" as your making him out to be. He's a unique villain. He only specifically kidnaped because he knew Mario would be a future burden to Bowser.
 

Luigifan18

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But Kamek isn't as "e" as your making him out to be. He's a unique villain. He only specifically kidnaped because he knew Mario would be a future burden to Bowser.
It's still kinda implied that his ultimate goal was ****ing infanticide.
 
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