The Kirby Video Archive/Kirby Critique thread!

[t!MmY]

I agree that you played that match well Mike! You even went for some smart pressure in the match-up, which leads me to think you must have some ROB match-up experience somewhere.

Overall, you weren't 'too aggressive', but it's true that when Chibo started planking the ledge you threw out F-smashes unnecessarily a few times. That tends to happen when one has a secure lead and is looking for the finishing blow.

Too bad the other matches weren't recorded, I think everyone would have enjoyed watching them. (you did say there were two others, right?)

 

[MikeKirby]

You're spot on t!mmY! I do get ROB exp. from a very formidable fellow smasher! I felt there were a few things I could get away with on Chibo whereas my training buddy has learned the match-up way too well from his own brother that also plays Kirby. They're like the NY version of you guys (t!mmY and t0mmY)!

As far as the matches go, there were only two games. I won the set 2-0.

 

[t!MmY]

Oh, a NY ROB player who knows the Kirby match-up? He must be a tough one to play against because ROB definitely has the (slight) advantage in that match-up... but he has to have Kirby experience in order to get that advantage.

If the set went 2-0, then let me amend my previous post and say 'Too bad the other game wasn't recorded'. It's fun watching another good Kirby vs another good ROB.

 

[Triple R]

Set from a small Madison tourney last month.

Triple R (Kirby) vs D. Disciple (Lucario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VScv8hQXoT0

 

[Vinylic.]

Not really good at pointing out flaws, but don't depend on hammers a lot.

 

[Wumbo105]

Hammer is always kewl to land, but committing to it in some cases means you miss out on a possible safe hit and gimp, which you did once or twice.
Just make sure youre 110% sure it's going to land before going for it.
Luckily your spacing was good enough to get away with it (and his lack of spacing).

Soooo many trips! I counted 4 trips in the first 2 mins by you. Lol.

 

[CT Chia]

It got recorded?

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

Alright I got a vid of my Kirby from a tourney yesterday! :D

Poyo () vs Luckay4Lyphe (): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6b35F0hiVM

I go Kirby for the first two games, I'm really sorry for going MK game 3, but I really wanted to win and Kirby vs Pit was pretty hard (the first two games were the most tense games I had this tourney).

Can someone knowledgable vs Pit please critique me in this match-up? I wanna beat Luckay with all Kirby next time! :D (I don't like having to go MK ;_; )

 

[MikeKirby]

Why didn't you ask Chu? He was right there!

Pits are rare to come by over here besides Dabuz's ambiguous Pit but as general info I noticed:

You tried to force a lot of things and got punished for it. Such as your grab at low percents and F-smash for the KO. Luckay saw this and just avoided/baited it altogether or at least evaded it enough time to get some damage in before the inevitable happened.

Slowly push your zone into his by mixing up between (power)shields, spot-dodge, rolls, jumps and ducks against his arrow spam.

I'm not sure about what to say about the d-airs except that it worked better than I thought it would.

Overall, I'd say try to practice just a bit more patience, and baiting to create the opening you need. Way to win the set though!

@Chibo: ... ... ... We should play some more.

 

[Vinylic.]

If a pit camps, camp with pit's copy power.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

@ MikeKirby: Chu actually didn't see the set, he was playing Winner's Finals vs June at the same time me vs Luckay happened. XD

I don't like rolling as Kirby, it's pretty punishable, I gonna give dash spotdodge and powershield mix-ups a try as an approach though. Ducking the arrows dodges like only one or two though, cause Pit can angle it and still hit you (it's happened to me when playing some Wi-Fi Pits before when I just tried to duck it). Yeah, I feel I did try to force a lot of things. ESOJ told me after game 2 (where I lost that 80% lead on I had on stock 2), I was fishing for the f-smash too much and should've just went for grabs at high percent more since Luckay was waiting for the f-smash more.

Once I learn the Pit match-up more, I'll definitely work more on my zoning in the MU. I mainly space and zone by hitboxes I know and since I'm unfamiliar with Pit's hitboxes, I'm not entirely sure which zones are safe and not. ^^;

I actually did ask Chu for advice before the set and I believe it did help me, just sad I couldn't do it game 2. I had to start approaching at the end of game 2 or I was gonna get timed out (there was less than a minute on the clock at the end of the game).

Thanks for the advice though! I'll work on my patience game! :D


@ Vinyl: I wanted to do that, but I can't B-Reverse Inhale (yet), so my only way to get the Inhale would be predictable, I tried doing it once or twice and I think I took damage for it, so I decided to just try to win in spacing. Arrows probably would've made it a lot easier if I could get them though.

 

[Kappy]

You'd think that camping with Pit's power would be a good solution, but it's not unless you're proficient with his arrows. I guarantee Luckay would out-camp you and you'd probably end up losing your ability after one of the arrows hits you. You're better off just spitting him out and hoping for a read off of it to extend damage, unless you're good with Pit's arrows. LOL.

 

[Wumbo105]

Yeah I also noticed that when he was at 0%, you fished for grabs until you got it, and when he was at kill %, i wouldn't say you spammed f-smash, but you used it excessively. Try not to force things to happen, just make it happen with reads.
Also, your landings weren't the safest, a majority of your damage came from you trying to land in a certain way. Try to mix up how you use your jumps.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

@ Kappy: Makes sense, I actually have no idea how to use arrows, so maybe it's good I DIDN'T get the power. XD

@ Wumbo: I tried to get the first hit either with bair or grab. I know I need to mix that up though, I'm gonna improve my fair game in the future and try to utilize it better. Anyone good with fair have any advice for me on how to use it, I don't wanna be too predictable with just bair/grab? Yeah, I know I was definitely fishing for the kills, which is why I lost that 80%+ lead I had game 2. I was nervous. x_x

Yeah... I'm bad at landing, not just as Kirby, but as MK too. I don't really know how to land safe, fortunately for vs Pit, it didn't cost me anything crucial (except dying to that bair at 80-something x_x), but I need landing advice! Vs most MKs, I usually beat them in the ground game, but when I get in the air, I often take 30-40% (way too much) from air juggling or trying to get back on stage.

Advice for these things would be helpful! :D

 

[Kappy]

Honestly, I'd just watch other Kirbies and see how they land. It's hard to give advice for how to land because different players punish different kinds of landing styles better/worse. My best advice is jump back and forth - notice how Luckay did that with Pit and he got away from you a lot of the time. You should be doing that as Kirby, and if they try to come at you in the air and you know you can't AD or jump away then throw out a Bair and get ready to DI for if you get hit.

And a general rule of thumb is do not land directly in front of behind them. Try to land far away from them, and if that means grabbing the ledge, then grab the ledge and try to reset your spacing there. Hopefully that helps you!

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

Thanks for the advice!

Gonna study Chu vids then. He almost never gets gimped, I'm surprised he's able to recover against so many MKs. I've probably only gimped Chu once or twice in all the friendlies I've ever had with him. XD

 

[Wumbo105]

I have ultimate jealousy that you get to chill with Chu whenever a tourney comes around. I can only hope he decides to visit FL in the next big tourney we have lol

 

[Vinylic.]

That sounds fun. Him being in fl would be pretty cool.

 

[t!MmY]

I used to dismiss Pit as an easy match-up for Kirby (and a not-especially-good character all around), but then I learned that Pit actually has two attacks that by themselves work really well against Kirby.

The first is obviously his arrows; they're great spam at long distance and unlike Falco Lasers they can be angled to hit a crouching Kirby (or upward to catch a jumping Kirby). The arrow spam can make you feel like you have to get close in a hurry, but you really don't have to be hasty. A smart Pit will abandon arrows the moment you get close enough.

The second attack that Pit has that's really good in the this match-up is his Basic Attack (either version, the 3-hit combo or the multi-hit Rapid Attack). The speed at which his Basic Attack comes out is quite fast and the range is exceptionally good - it can hit you in the front, in the air, and even behind Pit. Pit's basic attack will clash with plenty of attacks and it can beat out stronger attacks with it's quick speed.

If a Pit realizes how good his Basic Attack is, he'll probably spam it most of the time you're even remotely close since it's very safe in most situations. You have to be very precise with your punishes and any counter attacks you try to use. B-air might be the 'easiest' to use for punish against this attack; baiting the attack with a Shield might work but it's difficult because of the multi-hits. Rolling behind this attack generally won't work since it hits all around Pit and the Roll's invincibility will usually expire before getting far enough behind Pit.

Getting Pit's power is actually a really good idea (if you ever have the opportunity to do so); not so much for the arrow spam because that just won't work, Pit has plenty of deflectors and his arrows will eventually knock your wings off. The arrows are good to use in between Kirby's other attack options which gives you a reliable mix-up at 'Medium Range' and can be useful to punish Pit's Basic Attack spam. Another good use for Kirby Arrows is when you get Pit off-stage; the arrows can be used to build extra damage but more importantly you can use them to knock Pit out of his Glide or to snipe his Jumps. If you can hit him enough off-stage, you can force Pit into using his Wings of Palutena which will of course give you an excellent shot at gimping him completely.

If you're not proficient with the Arrows, I highly suggest playing friendlies with a Pit player and specifically becoming Angel Kirby and learning how to use them. Like I said, if you ever get the opportunity to Copy Pit you should take it and you should be familiar with how to use Arrows in the match-up.

 

[MikeKirby]

Ok, so I think I'm getting better. A few matches here from a local smashfest if anyone is bored and wants to critique me. ^_^

Mi]{e]{irbY () Vs Penta ()
These were my first games and I didn't warm up but I think I did ok. Any improvements to work on; besides the bad ledge options and excessive rolling...?

Also, don't mind Drk. Peach on stream, haha!
-------------------------------------
Dark Peach () Vs Mi]{e]{irbY ()
I don't get bodied by my fellow peach player no more.
At least, I hope he wasn't sandbagging!

I hope to perform well at this weeks LI tournament. *crosses fingers*

Hup!

 

[Vinylic.]

Hot Damn, you are boss.

 

[Wumbo105]

Alright, i finally got around to watching these. Very good **** mr. Mike. I liked the spacing of you u-airs and timing of your grabs.
You said besides your poor ledge options, so im assuming you are aware of that issue, which showed itself multiple times against Penta (such as the last 10 secs of that vid). Another thing I noticed against Penta was that you tended to panic a bit when he was very close to you. You would either immediately roll or spotdodge once or twice. The thing is, Penta did almost the same thing (either spotdodging or up-b away) so you could easily punish that by staying calm, and reacting to what type of panic he does.

Other than that, i saw very little problems at all. Kinda sad to see that Dark.Pch has lost his touch :/. I felt like you were focusing too much on trying to catch and throw the turnips back, which led to some unnecessary damage, but you guys were just foolin around so whatevz lol.

 

[falln]

me vs rich brown

i personally make a lot of input mistakes but for the most part it's rich outplaying me. matchup's hard yo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooPThfAPLu4&feature=youtu.be

 

[Wumbo105]

Very good attempt falln. Richbrown's management of pikmin color is ridiculous.
The only thing i can comment on is i dont think you punished his landings enough. I believe that's one of Olimars weak spots besides his recovery. Otherwise good stuff.

 

[t!MmY]

That match-up is ridiculous; sad and ridiculous. Kirby's at a big disadvantage in any position he takes: he gets punished Out-of-Shield if he attacks from the air, he gets Grabbed if he's on the ground, and he gets uber-camped when at long range. It even feels like he loses the majority of the time when his attacks clash with Olimar's (so much for hitting the Pikmin away and then carrying through to hit Olimar).

I lol'd at the number of times RichBrown tripped in that first round. You got a few good punishes off of them, too. Obviously the best AT Kirby has in this match-up.

As much as Dedede players must hate the Olimar match-up, I'm pretty sure it feels at least two-times easier with Dedede than it is with Kirby. It's at least 10 times easier with MK.

 

[Vinylic.]

As I've said before, using kirby's copy ability soothes the rusty MU.

If you want to beat Oli, you have to be a jerk.

 

[falln]

so hard to be sneaky against olimar and do something really fast that he doesn't expect

kirby moving around is like the ****ing goodyear blimp

 

[Kappy]

kirby moving around is like the ****ing goodyear blimp

I may have to sig this. LOOOOL.

EDIT: Those matches looked brutal

 

[t!MmY]

so hard to be sneaky against olimar and do something really fast that he doesn't expect

kirby moving around is like the ****ing goodyear blimp

Lol!

This is why I love SSB1 Kirby. He can actually move, and his D-air actually spikes. They crippled him in Melee, and then they gave him a cane to hobble on in Brawl. :\

 

[Wumbo105]

I like his aerials better in brawl than in 64. I might just be biased, but i feel they better equip him for comboing and/or air camping.

 

[MikeKirby]

If you hadn't air dodging into him a lot you probably wouldn't have gotten punished so hard all the time. My 2 cents, on what I noticed.

Edit: I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you counter-picked Battlefield. I feel Olimar can platform camp hard there.

 

[falln]

i couldve airdodged slightly later in a lot of circumtances to not give him the visual cue as early to allow him to react but i was experimenting with FF AD -> jab as a way to get close to him and do dmg but kirby's ff isn't particularly good so it didnt work out as nicely. i think it's a lot easier to see i get punished after an airdodge but honestly olimar can use the exact same counter on almost all of kirby's approaching options soooo lol

i took him to bf because its a stage i personally like a lot and its a lot easier to edgeguard olimar if you just hang around by the side platform and i retain the option to kill him with uthrow if he starts living for way too long

socal only runs the 5 neutrals + lylat and castle siege so it not like i was going to gay him on frigate or anything

 

[Gh0st.]

Hii, I really need some helpful critique/advice please. I would post a link but sadly I use Wiinet/3ds browsers. There is one recent video that's fairly easy to find on Youtube though, Ghost3000 vs Xivic&Jokaru(pool set from CoT6). I would really appreciate any helpful insight. Thank you^^

 

[falln]

Hii, I really need some helpful critique/advice please. I would post a link but sadly I use Wiinet/3ds browsers. There is one recent video that's fairly easy to find on Youtube though, Ghost3000 vs Xivic&Jokaru(pool set from CoT6). I would really appreciate any helpful insight. Thank you^^

i think your biggest problem here is your reaction time. you're in range and get the opportunity for quite a lot of punishes but you go for the punish too late and the lucario gets away with a lot of very punishable things. outside of that and a few spacing errors you were playing pretty well, but reaction time is just so important

 

[Gh0st.]

i think your biggest problem here is your reaction time. you're in range and get the opportunity for quite a lot of punishes but you go for the punish too late and the lucario gets away with a lot of very punishable things. outside of that and a few spacing errors you were playing pretty well, but reaction time is just so important

Thanks for the insight I guess I just have to keep playing to better myself overall. I will work on spacing too.

 

[MikeKirby]

Here's some videos for you guys to watch if/when you're bored!

Game 3 (only recorded)
SSBB: vVv Ch3 3s3 Vs Mi]{e]{irbY - Impact III
I feel that me getting into his head game 2 affected his game 3 performance
As always, critique critique! There is always something new to learn. If something could have been done better lemme know! I should have been more careful on avoiding the SoPo chaingrab.

Friendly matches played that day:
SSBB: Mi]{e]{irbY Vs. Zorai 1

SSBB: Mi]{e]{irbY Vs. Zorai 2

I have money matches too but I can't get a hold of the guy who has them. -.-

----------------------
I want to showcase a fellow smasher I play with a lot. In fact, he's where I've gotten my ROB exp from. He's literally the best ROB I've ever played. We dubbed him the best random in the world because he rarely enters tournaments (so most people see him as an "unknown") but when he does enter he takes names! Trust me these matches are cool to watch!
SSBB: Dill Vs Will - Impact III (Game 1)

SSBB: Dill Vs Will - Impact III (Game 2)
I should share these with the ROB boards.

 

[Vinylic.]

I have more to view, but damn mike, you weren't supposed to simply Kirbycide to kill off nana, lol.
You could've spitted her out and do a uair. It does work, I think.

Still, that was pretty great. Now, I'll continue viewing the current match.

Edit- oh damn.

That last stock was pretty legit. Now I don't know if I'm wrong or right, LOL.

Double edit--

That 1st match with zorai made me cry.
The second match was pretty good too, you were perfect.

But just a reminder, facing in front of a marth is where you get most damage from. Being behind him is his weak spot.

 

[MikeKirby]

Well, I feel that if I have the stock lead it doesn't matter who I Kirbycide. Kirbyciding Popo would be the best scenario. If I get Nana well then it just turns into Kirby Vs SoPo, which is obviously in our favor. I just didn't expect him to blatantly go after me at the end.

I could've gone for the spit out to u-air stage spike but I wanted to be more in control of the situation and seal the deal against Nana. I didn't want to deal with risking Nana somehow surviving. (Watch Chu vs Ch3 3s3 @7:08)

Edit: Hmm, yeah, thanks for pointing that out Vi. I'll take note of that.

 

[Kawaii Poyo]

God damn MikeKirby, you're getting really good! O.o

Btw just wondering, since game 1 which you lost wasn't saved, just wondering, what did Cheese do that was beating you that I should look out for? I personally do hate being an MK main and I want to get some good wins (I don't consider Cheese a good win with MK, but with Kirby, yeah) with Kirby, so I think if I play him when I go to SKTAR, I'm gonna go Kirby.

 

[MikeKirby]

God damn MikeKirby, you're getting really good! O.o

Btw just wondering, since game 1 which you lost wasn't saved, just wondering, what did Cheese do that was beating you that I should look out for? I personally do hate being an MK main and I want to get some good wins (I don't consider Cheese a good win with MK, but with Kirby, yeah) with Kirby, so I think if I play him when I go to SKTAR, I'm gonna go Kirby.

It's not so much what he did (he did textbook IC stuff) it's more like I made critical errors. I didn't play as safe enough and didn't take advantage of certain scenarios. I played the match a bit too passive, and defensive and I got bodied game 1~

If you want to play him at SKTAR, go for it! He seems to be an impatient IC. Use that to force him to do reckless things! He's really grab-happy so bait and punish those (empty shot-hops weaving in and out/feint b-airs). Just know that he's a bit of a troll. I'm sure he's a nice guy out of competition but he might say things to get in your head. Ignore that and just focus on the match. Falln's and Chudat's write-ups tell pretty much tell the story well here, to be honest.

If you drop game 2 don't be afraid to use Meta Knight with a CP stage. He seems to change his character on a hard CP stage.

Good luck Poyo~!