SSS
Smash Ace
gimps = ez n free
kirby with lasers = ez n free
techchasing = ez n free
too tired to write more
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The Kirby Matchup Thread
- Thread starter SSS
- Start date
kirby with lasers = ez n free
techchasing = ez n free
too tired to write more
B00nes
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2014
- Messages
- 20
It's in Kirby's favor mainly because if falcos even slightly offstage that's a stock. Falco has to depend heavily on his dair and nair and stay grounded as much as possible to avoid getting knocked off. 65-35 for Kirby imo
SazoonTheBoon
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2014
- Messages
- 141
In kirby's favour, and heavily in kirby's favour when falco has to approach. Kirby can crouch falco lasers if not done directly above the ground, and he also doesn't get easy combos on you since we're so floaty. Oh and the edgeguard options kirby has a pretty ridiculous. If he's ever under the ledge goes he's pretty much dead as you can easily intercept with nair or bair and grab ledge from there. If he's a bit higher it's trickier since illusion is hard to react to. You have to read when he'll want to illusion but after that he's dead. Also inhale amazing in this matchup. If you get an inhale near the ledge it sets up for great edgeguards. Short hop double laser is pretty good too. But mainly in this matchup you'll be trying to look for uptilts to rack up damage then to send him offstage and gimp him.
SSS
Smash Ace
Guys you're all saying it's heavily in Kirby's favor because if Falco is offstage he's dead.
But you realize that that is LITERALLY every single one of Falco's matchups. If Falco is offstage against any character in Melee or PM he's dead. And his combos on Kirby aren't that bad. Lowest possible laser can get a ducking Kirby, but lowest possible laser is tough to do.
Don't try to shieldgrab him unless you notice his dairs/nairs are high on your shield. If he's doing doing late dair/nair, shield through the shine and nair OOS. That SHOULD beat shinegrab. If he starts doubleshining or something just roll out until you notice if he's really predictable with his pressure.
If you notice him doing more nair than dair try crouch cancelling it at low percents.
You kinda play this matchup how Sheik plays it. Sheik loses the neutral and she has less crazy combos, but if she gets her techchases and her gimps she wins. However, Kirby does a bit better in neutral than Sheik does. Does Dash attack go through lasers? If it does, this matchup ain't too hard. It probably doesn't. However, you can read when he's going to laser and dash attack him before the laser comes out, because laser takes 20 frames to come out because laser sucks. Also Falco combos Kirby less easily than he combos Sheik.
Short hop double laser is godlike. This is one of the matchups where actually stealing the opponent's power is critical and not just a gimmick.
Avoid small stages with low ceilings like Yoshi Story. Avoid Final Destination. Dreamland is your home, go to it because he'll have a hard time killing you and can kill him at 0. Fountain isn't too bad. Ugh why doesn't this game have a standard stagelist yet (also why is every stagelist so big, Big House stagelist was beautiful).
If he tries to overextend by shining you off the top, use rock for the lulz
Matchup is in Kirby's favor, but not nearly as much as you might originally think. Still good, though. But really if him being offstage doesn't lead to a stock you're in for trouble.
But you realize that that is LITERALLY every single one of Falco's matchups. If Falco is offstage against any character in Melee or PM he's dead. And his combos on Kirby aren't that bad. Lowest possible laser can get a ducking Kirby, but lowest possible laser is tough to do.
Don't try to shieldgrab him unless you notice his dairs/nairs are high on your shield. If he's doing doing late dair/nair, shield through the shine and nair OOS. That SHOULD beat shinegrab. If he starts doubleshining or something just roll out until you notice if he's really predictable with his pressure.
If you notice him doing more nair than dair try crouch cancelling it at low percents.
You kinda play this matchup how Sheik plays it. Sheik loses the neutral and she has less crazy combos, but if she gets her techchases and her gimps she wins. However, Kirby does a bit better in neutral than Sheik does. Does Dash attack go through lasers? If it does, this matchup ain't too hard. It probably doesn't. However, you can read when he's going to laser and dash attack him before the laser comes out, because laser takes 20 frames to come out because laser sucks. Also Falco combos Kirby less easily than he combos Sheik.
Short hop double laser is godlike. This is one of the matchups where actually stealing the opponent's power is critical and not just a gimmick.
Avoid small stages with low ceilings like Yoshi Story. Avoid Final Destination. Dreamland is your home, go to it because he'll have a hard time killing you and can kill him at 0. Fountain isn't too bad. Ugh why doesn't this game have a standard stagelist yet (also why is every stagelist so big, Big House stagelist was beautiful).
If he tries to overextend by shining you off the top, use rock for the lulz
Matchup is in Kirby's favor, but not nearly as much as you might originally think. Still good, though. But really if him being offstage doesn't lead to a stock you're in for trouble.
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FreeGamer
Smash Ace
How do y'all get things started against a fast faller at low damage? Tech chases can only help so much, and that U-Tilt nerf makes it useless until they hit like 40 or 50. 
dg-pilz-e
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2014
- Messages
- 55
Soooooooooo
Fox
What do?
I always seem to have a hard time playing Fox, Falco I have a better time with but Fox I dunno I just can't handle the speed or the shines. Up throw> Up air used to kill me too but I've gotten better at SDI recently, but then they just switch to b-air.
Any tips?
Fox
What do?
I always seem to have a hard time playing Fox, Falco I have a better time with but Fox I dunno I just can't handle the speed or the shines. Up throw> Up air used to kill me too but I've gotten better at SDI recently, but then they just switch to b-air.
Any tips?
SSS
Smash Ace
steal them lasers and short hop triple laser his ass
(i think you can sh3l but idk)
not really, because if you two laser each other he's going to win because jab usmash kills you at like 60% and your usmash kills him at like 1,000,000% even though your usmash is strong. Fox is fat. :'(
Get hella good at techchasing. You lose the neutral, and he combos you like crazy, and his punishes are godlike, and his laser is amazing. So just get good at techchasing, get some swag fast fall uair combos and ****, and get super flowcharty with your edgeguarding. I'm still working on my Fox edgeguard flowchart. Best way as usual is to force him under the stage so he HAS to use UpB, and then go out there and dair him until he's down low. or bair him. or reverse hit uair him because you're a sw@g as **** Kirby player.
Uthrow is kinda alright at comboing fastfallers. At low percents you can like, uthrow to some aerials, uthrow to inhale, or sometimes uthrow to hammer which is swag as ****.
Fthrow can sometimes lead to uair grab but only on garbage DI but Fox players suck so they won't DI it. jk they probably will, don't use fthrow.
also if you're going for hella hard techchase reads, use hammer or fsmash instead of upsmash because he's a fastfaller but he's light, so he dies sideways earlier than he dies off the top.
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B00nes
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2014
- Messages
- 20
Fox is a hard matchup mainly because if he so much as sneezes on kirby it's a star ko
With Fox you have to live life on the edge. Don't try to challenge anything that fox has, you'll be sliced up in seconds. The best way to handle him is to coerce him off the ledge, or punish his approaches. You have to bait HARD in this matchup. Tech chasing is easy due to his short roll, and nair is a good snuff. Up tilt forever. Reverse upair to get a crud angle.
SSS
Smash Ace
NNNNGH THIS
Just FYI, I would not copy Fox's lasers in that matchup. Yeah you look cool with your SHQL and all, but in that matchup you dont want to put yourself in situations where Fox can run in and punish you. Plus, a good Fox is gonna be on your ass the whole match, Kirby cant really run away. Fox players even feel unsafe using lasers in that matchup in Melee, I wouldnt risk it with a slower and floatier character.
But yeah, use that pseudo sheik Fair of a reverse Uair that Kirby has. Also, since hes a fastfaller if you get the chance you can combo falling Uair into Hammer kill. And you can tech chase with the 2nd hit of aerial hammer if you hard read his tech roll towards the edge, it sends him at that juicy angle and kill him at like 30% from a gimp since he will be offstage.
But yeah, use that pseudo sheik Fair of a reverse Uair that Kirby has. Also, since hes a fastfaller if you get the chance you can combo falling Uair into Hammer kill. And you can tech chase with the 2nd hit of aerial hammer if you hard read his tech roll towards the edge, it sends him at that juicy angle and kill him at like 30% from a gimp since he will be offstage.
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SazoonTheBoon
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2014
- Messages
- 141
I personally think that smaller stages like green hill and fod would work well against fox just so he can't run around so much and spam lasers. If the fox has a rush down playstyle bigger stages like dream land are good too but I personally think it's a better stage for fox. Basically if the fox camps the matchup is hell in neutral. Once you land a good uptilt tho you combo the hell out of him.
Also off of a back throw off of ledge, I personally like covering the instant side b option with a bair often forces him to go for fire fox. Once they get below the stage it's pretty free because they're forced to firefox which is easy to react to. If you can't get beside him and space a bair properly to gimp, then you should go for a trade with your nair during his fire fox. Ideally you want to hit him during the start up because you'll get sent slightly up and you have more time to either space a bair or go for another nair trade and keep stuffing him further and further down.
Also off of a back throw off of ledge, I personally like covering the instant side b option with a bair often forces him to go for fire fox. Once they get below the stage it's pretty free because they're forced to firefox which is easy to react to. If you can't get beside him and space a bair properly to gimp, then you should go for a trade with your nair during his fire fox. Ideally you want to hit him during the start up because you'll get sent slightly up and you have more time to either space a bair or go for another nair trade and keep stuffing him further and further down.
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Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
How do I play against Squirtle now? in 3.0 I was able to inhale most of his moves and up tilt his attacks, but now I can't pierce his shell. What do? The squirtles I play are Dirtboy345 on netplay and samned. Also a few more.
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Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
Inactive Furby. Can someone just make a list of good match ups for kirby....
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Did Kirby vs. Fox change at all in PM from Melee? All the ways Kirby got better, yet it doesn't seem he got anything for Fox outside N-air. Meanwhile, Fox continues to run away laser till he can either U-throw U-air or Usmash. What stages do you even take this jerk/keep him away from?
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
High ceilings are a must. Avoid low ceilings like the plague.
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
You generally want a small stage with a high ceiling like FoD or GHZ that takes away some of fox's ability to laser and run away while letting you live slightly longer. Avoid PS2, DP, and Dreamland because fox can just run circles around you all day. If you can't gimp fox early you probably aren't going to win, so get him off stage as fast as possible.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
So if you're in a region where Yoshi's Story, Distant Planet, PS2, and Final Destination are all available in round 2, what should you prioritize banning?
Also, how do you cover Phantasm and Fire Fox if possible? What do you even do at neutral?
Also, how do you cover Phantasm and Fire Fox if possible? What do you even do at neutral?
SSS
Smash Ace
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Tech chasing Fox is harder than it should be thanks to his roll and that shine. Even jab resetting him requires a different timing than everyone else because he bounces so high if he doesn't tech. And U-throw doesn't lead to anything if they DI.
F-throw seems to always lead to F-air at REALLY low percents even if they DI, but the third hit doesn't hit before you land and Fox can buffer a roll before you can do anything.
And I struggle to find a use for U-Smash. Sounds like the worst move to use against Fox.
F-throw seems to always lead to F-air at REALLY low percents even if they DI, but the third hit doesn't hit before you land and Fox can buffer a roll before you can do anything.
And I struggle to find a use for U-Smash. Sounds like the worst move to use against Fox.
I think banning Yoshi's Story would be smart move because ceiling is SO low that uthrow to uair (cool combo) could probably kill at like 50% or something like that. Usmash wouldn't be to far behind that either
For Phantasm I personally think Bair works best, but have used Nair successfully as well. I have also hit Dair before, but somewhat harder to do.
Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
Forward throw at low percents can be followed up with an up air of fair into another grab, which is a more consistent way to rack up percent than tech chasing. I've never really had a problem tech chasing fox, but that extra high bounce on no tech throws me off every time.
Yeah up smash is useless against fox.
I agree banning Yoshi's is essentially required. I would use my second ban on PS2 because while all three stages give fox lots of room to run, PS2 is the only one with a low ceiling. Be glad your region doesn't have Warioware as well like mine does.
Bair is my go to for for illusion because if you hit it it's almost a guaranteed stock. Dair is also good because you can immediately follow it up with another fastfall dair.
SazoonTheBoon
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2014
- Messages
- 141
No ban fd. It's a terrible stage for kirby against fox.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Never tried U-air after low percent F-throw. Seems like they'd need to DI inward or not at all for U-air to hit though.
And yeah, I feel like YS and FD are the optimal bans, but that doesn't make PS2 or DP suddenly good.
And yeah, I feel like YS and FD are the optimal bans, but that doesn't make PS2 or DP suddenly good.
SSS
Smash Ace
You want stages with big blastzones in general. You should be killing him off the bottom anyway and the bottom blastzone size doesn't matter, and he's killing you off the top so you want big blastzones. If Fountain is legal in your ruleset that's 100% you counterpick. Fox doesn't like that stage in general. Dreamland can be good but he can run away and camp and stuff which is annoying. Green Hill is a pretty solid choice, I think.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
I meant what stages to keep Fox from picking. I know the optimal stages for Kirby when counterpicking, but I'm not 100% on the stages to ban to keep Fox from counterpicking. Specifically if PS2, YS, FD, and DP are available. Sometimes, Warioware too.
SSS
Smash Ace
Warioware is a nightmare, definitely ban that. It also depends on how many bans your ruleset allows.
In order from best to worst of those 5 stages, I'd say:
Distant Planet
PS2
FD
YS
WW
dg-pilz-e
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2014
- Messages
- 55
If you haven't banned WW as Kirby you have made a grave mistake (unless jiggly then your golden)
if it's 2 bans i usually ban WW and YS, If three then It comes down to what kind of fox i'm dealing with
While fox can camp on dreamland i find it's still Kirby's best stage and shouldn't be banned IMO. He gets that ability to camp but we have plenty of ways to move around. If its real bad then copy his lasers and camp him out,
And iunno FD isn't 100% awful against fox, I think that's more a preference thing. While it isn't my first choice i'd wouldn't mind going there.
if it's 2 bans i usually ban WW and YS, If three then It comes down to what kind of fox i'm dealing with
While fox can camp on dreamland i find it's still Kirby's best stage and shouldn't be banned IMO. He gets that ability to camp but we have plenty of ways to move around. If its real bad then copy his lasers and camp him out,
And iunno FD isn't 100% awful against fox, I think that's more a preference thing. While it isn't my first choice i'd wouldn't mind going there.
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
Distant Plant has a low ceiling and tons of room for Fox to camp, not to mention platforms to mix up his recovery onto. If I'm going to be stuck with a low ceiling, I'd rather him not have a ****ton of room to play his amazing neutral game.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
So I got destroyed by Ripple over the weekend. How exactly is Kirby supposed to kill Dedede? He's big and heavy, got multiple jumps, has that F-air to keep Kirby away off-stage, has that stupid Up-B to negate D-air, and probably some other crap I'm forgetting. Seeing Dedede living past 200% is frustrating.
Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
Ripple looking for peeps he beats on smashboards to like the salt. I don't have any great DDD here, but I just try to keep him grounded with hitstun with my combos. Also cutter spiking can be good.
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Shenanigan
Smash Apprentice
I don't have a whole lot of DDD experience either, but I've got a couple of ideas. Down throw tech chasing DDD feels really easy because he's just so damn big that you have a lot of time to react to where he's going. Low percent up tilt can lead into a grab I believe. Also it's almost impossible to kill DDD off the bottom blastzone, so dairing him out of his up b is pointless, bair is a much better option. If you can force him to recover low, F-smash is free since he can't actually sweetspot the ledge at all (no idea why he's the only character that can't but whatever). Ripple please correct me if I'm wrong.
chrisall76
Smash Apprentice
What's the matchup like for Wolf/Toon Link? In a school tournament and want to make sure I know what to do against one guy in my bracket.
Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
Wolf. Look for openings for back throw edge guard. If he isn't very good at sweetspotting. A well timed down smash or 2 should -do the trick on ledge. Also nair l-cancel into dtilt is pretty good. Don't forget to copy lasers for fun!
FreeGamer
Smash Ace
Toon Link wrecks Kirby super hard. Enjoy getting zoned and killed for free.
Jinjo64
Smash Apprentice
I would say basically anyone with large disjointed hitboxes and people who can camp well.
I'm only going to say the mu's I know are bad(40/60+) due to research and personally playing them for a year. Ask if you question any.
Bowser, Fox, Link, Wario, Toon Link, Marth, Mewtwo, Snake, Dedede, Donkey Kong?, Squirtle, G&W, Pit, Samus, and Charizard.
Those are the only ones I know. There could be more, but oh well.
If you want to know his good mu's. You would have to get the opinion of others. His for sure good mu's are Falco, Yoshi, Ganon, Luigi, Ivysaur, and I think he beats ness personally.