The Green Lesbian is back! Learn sm4sh Samus from Brawl's best Samus player! Updated 2/19/2015!

[KayJay]

Made an account today and wanted to reply to KayJay specifically. Your video is super cool and really makes me want to up my Samus game.

I've always felt that Samus in the most diverse character in the smash bros game with tons of freedom for many styles of play. Like if you play as Ike (at least in Brawl) it's A A A I WIN. But It's weird that people pick on Samus a lot. I feel she's like the most interesting and versatile character. I mean yeah I have a huge bias as Metroid is my favorite game franchise, but she's heavy meaning she lives a long time, is floaty so she isn't juggled easily, has great recovery, good range, and a good pressure and projectile game and is good at spacing. In smash 4 they buffed her even more to be faster, and all her smash attacks and up b can kill at low %s now. I just feel that it takes actual skill and talent to become a good Samus player, while other characters are not so hard to get good with.

Regardless, I wanted to join the forums and try to get better at Smash. All games preferably but for now, Smash 4 specifically.

Hello!

Thank you and welcome to our small Samus club. I really appreciate your words! Hope to see your progress with Samus. Btw. I'm almost finished with my next huge Samus video. Stay tuned.

 

[CaveBoy]

KayJay, think I could take a whack at you? I wanna see if there is any knowledge I can assimilate from you.

 

[GameBird]

Yeah I would totally like to get in on some Samus dittos at some point too! I want to get my butt kicked and get better haha

 

[KayJay]

As long as we achieve a good ping (low latency) I would be happy to practice with you guys. I'm not that great at Samus Ditto's so I assume it wouldn't be one-sided at all.

 

[Macchiato]

I'm getting all my kills with Bair

 

[Lavani]

Grounded Screw Attack seems to have some potential for early kills in certain situations - no, I'm not talking about the first hit.

In my case, I was playing against a Samus (using Rosalina), and at 48% flew out of Screw Attack in the middle of the move, flying deep into the upper magnifying glass. It seems like hitting a second character or object (in this case, Luma) adds enough hitlag for characters to sometimes fly out in the middle of the move; with rage it kills from Battlefield/Yoshi's Island platforms on 3DS, I'd imagine there's even more potential for early kills with Wii U's smaller blast zones. I've only managed to replicate it once so far against a CPU though, so I'm not sure what exact conditions need to take place to cause this to happen.

 

[Xygonn]

Grounded Screw Attack seems to have some potential for early kills in certain situations - no, I'm not talking about the first hit.

In my case, I was playing against a Samus (using Rosalina), and at 48% flew out of Screw Attack in the middle of the move, flying deep into the upper magnifying glass. It seems like hitting a second character or object (in this case, Luma) adds enough hitlag for characters to sometimes fly out in the middle of the move; with rage it kills from Battlefield/Yoshi's Island platforms on 3DS, I'd imagine there's even more potential for early kills with Wii U's smaller blast zones. I've only managed to replicate it once so far against a CPU though, so I'm not sure what exact conditions need to take place to cause this to happen.

Second hit (really the second through fourth) is worse than first hit for fixed knockback, but it's pretty strong (magnifying glass). No kill potential even vs jiggs without rage. Only the last hit has knockback growth. The first hit (100f/180w) can kill jiggs from the battlefield top platform without rage. Doesn't kill Rosa though. Second hit is 100f/150w so it's significantly weaker and has a worse launch angle but would probably give you some launch potential (no real kill potential). The hits after that only get weaker. Knockbacks take over, they don't multiply.

1. Screw Attack (Grounded)
2. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/180w 95° 0.5-SDI
3. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/120w 95° 0.5-SDI
4. Frame 7- 8: [1%(+3)]x3100f/150w 100° 0.2-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
5. Frame 7- 8: [1%(+3)]x3100f/120w 100° 0.2-SDI Ground-Target-Only
6. Frame 13-14: [1%(+3)]x6 100f/80w 100° 0.5-SDI Ground-Target-Only
7. Frame 13-14: [1%(+3)]x6 100f/50w 110° 0.5-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
8. Frame 25-26: 1%(+3) 50b/240g (KO@ 281%) 70° 2.0-Hitlag Electric
9. Max Damage: 12%

1. Screw Attack (Aerial)
2. Frame 5- 6: [1%(+3)]x3 100b/0g 110°
3. Frame 5- 6: [1%(+3)]x3 25b/0g 140°
4. Frame 11-12: [1%(+3)]x8 100f/50w 100° 0.5-SDI Ground-Target-Only
5. Frame 11-12: [1%(+3)]x8 25b/0g 366° Aerial-Target-Only
6. Frame 27-28: 1%(+3) 50b/240g (KO@ 281%) 70° 2.0-Hitlag Electric
7. Max Damage: 12%

I doubt there is really anything to be had from the second hit.

 

[Lavani]

Second hit (really the second through fourth) is worse than first hit for fixed knockback, but it's pretty strong (magnifying glass). No kill potential even vs jiggs without rage. Only the last hit has knockback growth. The first hit (100f/180w) can kill jiggs from the battlefield top platform without rage. Doesn't kill Rosa though. Second hit is 100f/150w so it's significantly weaker and has a worse launch angle but would probably give you some launch potential (no real kill potential). The hits after that only get weaker. Knockbacks take over, they don't multiply.

1. Screw Attack (Grounded)
2. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/180w 95° 0.5-SDI
3. Frame 5- 6: 2%(+3) 100f/120w 95° 0.5-SDI
4. Frame 7- 8: [1%(+3)]x3100f/150w 100° 0.2-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
5. Frame 7- 8: [1%(+3)]x3100f/120w 100° 0.2-SDI Ground-Target-Only
6. Frame 13-14: [1%(+3)]x6 100f/80w 100° 0.5-SDI Ground-Target-Only
7. Frame 13-14: [1%(+3)]x6 100f/50w 110° 0.5-SDI Aerial-Target-Only
8. Frame 25-26: 1%(+3) 50b/240g (KO@ 281%) 70° 2.0-Hitlag Electric
9. Max Damage: 12%

1. Screw Attack (Aerial)
2. Frame 5- 6: [1%(+3)]x3 100b/0g 110°
3. Frame 5- 6: [1%(+3)]x3 25b/0g 140°
4. Frame 11-12: [1%(+3)]x8 100f/50w 100° 0.5-SDI Ground-Target-Only
5. Frame 11-12: [1%(+3)]x8 25b/0g 366° Aerial-Target-Only
6. Frame 27-28: 1%(+3) 50b/240g (KO@ 281%) 70° 2.0-Hitlag Electric
7. Max Damage: 12%

I doubt there is really anything to be had from the second hit.

1. Hits 2-4 may have weaker knockback, but they also don't occur at ground height. I've seen red lightning from them at the same points I've seen red lightning from the first hit, if not earlier.
2.

 

[Xygonn]

1. Hits 2-4 may have weaker knockback, but they also don't occur at ground height. I've seen red lightning from them at the same points I've seen red lightning from the first hit, if not earlier.
2.

Fresh plus rage? How much percent is samus at? 150%? That is hit 4 that sends out Rosalina. I guess worse case scenario it's a matchup dependent kill strategy. Maybe get a cheap one on Rosa. TBH this looks more viable than nailing just the first hit. I'm surprised.

 

[Lavani]

Fresh plus rage? How much percent is samus at? 150%? That is hit 4 that sends out Rosalina. I guess worse case scenario it's a matchup dependent kill strategy. Maybe get a cheap one on Rosa. TBH this looks more viable than nailing just the first hit. I'm surprised.

Yeah, fresh+150% rage. I'm not sure if it being fresh really matters though, even when I'd tried a bunch of times in a row to land it I'd still see the red lightning on every attempt, and it's weight-based knockback so Rosa's damage is a non-factor. It also doesn't take max rage to eject Rosalina (when it happened to me in a match the Samus player was around 70~100%), but I'm not sure how much rage is necessary to kill; I don't really plan to test it on 3DS either, since the numbers won't match Wii U.

I'm still unsure on the specifics regarding where Luma has to be to get this to work, but I guess if nothing else there's the knowledge that Screw Attack with rage might just randomly kill Rosalina when you use it.

 

[IsmaR]

I think it has more to do with the delay caused by Luma. I've seen and killed Rosa suspiciously early with things like delayed Smash attacks/things like Falcon Punch, with Rosa running into the move long after it was initiated/made contact to Luma.

 

[Z1GMA]

Tudor, tho.

 

[ChoZoX]

"Learn Sm4sh from Brawl's best Samus player!"

False advertisement. You're not YB.

 

[Xyro77]

"Learn Sm4sh from Brawl's best Samus player!"

False advertisement. You're not YB.

1. YB doesn't main Samus. He mains fox and 2nds Samus. Most of his vids are of Samus however and this is why he is viewed as a Samus player.

2. YB is the best in Japan. I am the best in the USA. QuikSilver is the best in Europe though he 2nds Samus and mains Zs.

3. Brawl is dead now so I doubt us 3 will ever meet up.

 

[CaveBoy]

I always figured if Xyro and ChozoX seen each other at a tourney, it would go like this

-Xyro: Chozo........
-Chozo: Xyro........

While mean mugging each other lol

 

[Xyro77]

I always figured if Xyro and ChozoX seen each other at a tourney, it would go like this

-Xyro: Chozo........
-Chozo: Xyro........

While mean mugging each other lol

Lmao I have zero beef with Chozo. Personally, I am glad there is someone better than me. For the first time in my life as a 100% samus main, I have a goal.

 

[GameBird]

Anyone want to do some Samus training dittos today? or is there a better thread to set this sort of thing up?

 

[Afro Smash]

Join the samus skype group and people are usually up for dittos

 

[RoachCake]

May be a good idea to update the moveset damage %s you've got listed in the OP since F-tilt has been changed now.
Luckily I've already got them for you, as well as some hitboxes for other attacks, and attacks that seem to have been missed.

• F-tilt:7% - Point Blank(Crotch?):6% - Close(Knee?):5% - Tip:8%
• F-tilt(Angled):8% - Point Blank(Crotch?):7% - Close(Knee?):6% - Tip:9%

One of the B-air %s are confused as well, and one is missing.
The 9% hitbox you have listed is technically the 12% hitbox(Whole leg except for the toe), the 9% hitbox(Entire leg) is the late hit.

D-air also has 3 hitboxes, you've got the first 2 (10% starting and 14% spiking) already, just not the ending 11% one.

And last but not least, the Get-up Attacks, not the most important attacks in the game, but eh, whatever.

• Get-up Attack(Ledge):7%
• Get-up Attack(Lying down):7%
• Get-up Attack(Face plant):7%
• Get-up Attack(Trip):5%

And one last thing, when is the next time you'd be free to do some Wi-fi friendlies, Xyro?
I want to test out my Samus against you, and possibly get some feedback.

 

[Xyro77]

Ok great, I'll update the OP.

I can play around 1pm (central time) if you want. So far, I've beaten all the Samus users I've played on here. So if I win vs you, please don't get upset. Samus dittos are my fav MU.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yes Roach if you must cry please avoid getting your tears on Xyro's crown at least

 

[RoachCake]

Ok great, I'll update the OP.

I can play around 1pm (central time) if you want. So far, I've beaten all the Samus users I've played on here. So if I win vs you, please don't get upset. Samus dittos are my fav MU.

Sounds good, I'll go add you now.
Haha, Samus dittos may not be my favorite MU, but I'm not one to get upset over some friendlies. xD

 

[Afro Smash]

Yo @ Xyro77 are you certain Zair never staled? Because it does now. Might of been a change in the most recent patch

 

[Xyro77]

It stales now?

W
T
F

not good, man.


I'll update the OP soon. I'm swamped with papers and finals for college.




Edit: just noticed that all 700 replays on my WiiU for my combo video are not useable because of the new patch. Today is a very bad day

 

[LimitCrown]

I thought that the Zair staled beforehand.

 

[Depth_]

@ Xyro77 Let me body you in a ditto.

 

[RoachCake]

Xyro, where you at? Been waiting for you for a while now.
If today isn't going to work for you let me know, we can play another time.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Xyro, where you at? Been waiting for you for a while now.
If today isn't going to work for you let me know, we can play another time.

Classic fakeout to arrive fashionably late to a duel. Don't let it throw you off your game!

 

[GameBird]

We should try to arrange a day/evening when we can all go on and practice our Samuses (Samusi? Sami?)

 

[Xyro77]

Guys I am SO SORRY for forgetting about playing. School/work and GF have distracted me.

Can any of you play today around 3:30pm or 4pm central time? After that, I could play around 8pm central.

If yall want, text me and remind me. 409 692 0697

 

[DungeonMaster]

Someone with a capture card needs to record at least some of these matches for the matchup thread. RC is quite skilled, easily the best Samus I've ever fought, I'm eagerly awaiting the results of the duel.

 

[Depth_]

Someone with a capture card needs to record at least some of these matches for the matchup thread. RC is quite skilled, easily the best Samus I've ever fought, I'm eagerly awaiting the results of the duel.

I have a capture card, but it's a baked potato.

 

[RoachCake]

Guys I am SO SORRY for forgetting about playing. School/work and GF have distracted me.

Can any of you play today around 3:30pm or 4pm central time? After that, I could play around 8pm central.

If yall want, text me and remind me. 409 692 0697

No problem, I had a couple things I had to get done anyway.
As long as you show up, I'll play anytime you're ready.

 

[Xyro77]

I'll be online in 15min. Add me: xyro77

 

[RoachCake]

I sent you one yesterday, I'll go ahead and host a room.

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro vs Roach

11-0 in Xyro favor.

I saved all vids but 3 I think.


Edit: you showed me some series holes I have in my style. Thank you for playing, man.

 

[RoachCake]

Xyro vs Roach

11-0 in Xyro favor.

I saved all vids but 3 I think.

I guess its a good thing I didn't expect to beat you at all, cause I was right. xD
Dittos are my worst MUs. GGs

What kind of advice do you have for me?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Yeouch. The king (queen) holds the crown and scepter firmly. Curious what those holes are, and curious to see the vids!

 

[Xyro77]

What kind of advice do you have for me?

Let's start with the good things.

1. Your air combo game is superb. Better than mine for sure.

2. You constantly move around the stage. This is a good thing.

3. Your d-tilt usage is stupid good/accurate. Another aspect that is better than mine.



Here is some advice or opinions on what I think would make you better.

1. Keep a charge shot ready to launch at all times. Having one ready to use is sometimes more scary to the enemy than actually hitting them with it. It promotes them to play slower and sometimes make mistakes because they are scared.

2. Don't be afraid to go off stage with fair/dair/Bair at low percents. Even a traded hit won't do much to you but it will either kill the foe, stage spike them, eat their 2nd jump/force an up+b or gimp them.

3. Advance and retreat with shield dashing is a super strong tool. Especially with Projectile users.

4. Punish everything that is poorly spaced with Screw attack. It's a free 12% and can KO.

5. This is probably the most important thing: Experience. Learn habits, learn to see what moves out prioritize the other, learn to make the enemy play YOUR game. This all will be achieved by playing many characters with many people.




Edit: tbh, the ditto is very hard for people because no character has a natural advantage over the other. It's all about out smarting the foe.

 

[Xyro77]

Yeouch. The king (queen) holds the crown and scepter firmly. Curious what those holes are, and curious to see the vids!

Can I send replays to you to upload?